LIVE Patriots Daily: 2024 Patriots Rebuild Guide w/ EJ Snyder
CLNS Media's Taylor Kyles teams up with the Bootleg Football Podcast co-creator EJ Snyder to break down how the Patriots can rebuild with an eye towards playoff contention in 2024.
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#Patriots #NFL #NewEnglandPatriots
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SportsTranscript
00:00 you. What's going on everyone
00:21 Taylor Kyle's here for C. L. S.
00:23 media coming at you with
00:24 another episode of past daily
00:26 second of the day brought to
00:27 you by our friends at fan dual
00:29 the way to guess I've been
00:30 dying to get this guy on the
00:31 show we've had bread on but now
00:33 we have the other co creator of
00:34 the bootleg football podcast E.
00:36 J. Snyder coming on the show for
00:38 the first time to talk the
00:39 Patriots the offseason and a
00:41 potential path for them to
00:42 rebuild this offseason and get
00:44 back into playoff contention E.
00:46 J. before we get into the big
00:47 stuff how you doing brother and
00:49 welcome to the show thank you
00:51 for having me I'm doing great I
00:53 am just hanging on by my
00:54 fingernails because it is draft
00:55 season and that means early
00:57 mornings late nights lots of
00:59 film one of the best times of
01:01 year one of the busiest times
01:02 of the year but also one of the
01:04 most fun so I'm having a good
01:05 time yeah I'm kind of learning
01:07 as I go I started doing this
01:09 kind of midway through last
01:10 offseason so this is the first
01:12 time I'm getting the full kind
01:13 of a shake down and now there's
01:15 like just instability all over
01:17 the place a lot of change so
01:19 constantly learning every day
01:20 but that's what keeps it fun
01:21 but before we get into some of
01:23 the topics I want to know all
01:24 the things the Patriots have
01:25 done Gerard Mayo Elliot Wolfe
01:27 seeming like the de facto GM
01:29 pretty much a brand new
01:30 offensive staff special team
01:31 staff a lot of holdovers on
01:33 defense but just a lot of new
01:34 faces and change everywhere
01:35 what have your impressions been
01:36 of the Patriots offseason thus
01:38 far I think it might be more or
01:41 a bigger move than a lot of
01:42 people are thinking a lot of
01:44 people are thinking with the
01:45 continuation in terms of you
01:47 know the heir apparent for many
01:49 years now if you've listened to
01:50 folks you know in and around
01:51 Patriots organization has been
01:53 Gerard Mayo there was a little
01:55 flirtation with variable right
01:57 because being former player in a
01:59 ring of honor guy get it but
02:01 Mayo really has been the focus
02:03 so a lot of people think that I
02:05 think this is going to be a very
02:07 smooth and kind of non impactful
02:10 transition and I don't see it
02:13 that way I think I think Mayo
02:15 yes it's a smooth transition he
02:16 has been inside the organization
02:18 for years I don't think it's
02:20 going to be business as usual
02:21 and you've seen that from some
02:22 of the hires right in terms of
02:24 bringing in Alex van Pelt the
02:25 offense is going to be very
02:26 different you talked about Scott
02:27 Wolf being the you know de facto
02:29 GM it's it's not going to be the
02:30 head coach choosing players
02:32 anymore at least not you know in
02:34 isolation so I think there's
02:37 going to be more change and I
02:38 actually think Pat's fans are
02:40 kind of ready for that I have
02:42 lots of Pat's fans in my life
02:43 and they were definitely ready
02:45 for some things to shift and I
02:47 think they're going to get
02:48 quite a few of those shifts with
02:50 this change or these changes I
02:51 should say.
02:52 The good years were good but boy
02:55 has it been a rude awakening but
02:57 like you said a lot of changes
02:58 the culture I mean yesterday we
03:00 got to meet the coordinators got
03:01 to meet the new assistant
03:02 coaches the vibe is very very
03:04 different when it was announced
03:05 that we would actually get to
03:06 like meet the assistant coaches
03:08 it was like what is going on
03:10 here they got rid of the day is
03:12 it's literally brand new top to
03:14 bottom but you know it's at
03:15 least exciting some change but
03:17 you know the real excitement
03:18 will come when we actually see
03:19 how all this plays out so we're
03:21 going to go through all the
03:22 different phases of the off
03:23 season got to start with the in
03:25 house for agents the Patriots
03:27 they have a lot of cap space
03:29 reason they have so much gas
03:30 basis because they have a ton of
03:31 free agents and a lot of players
03:33 who are impact players for them
03:35 that a lot of people are hoping
03:36 get resigned so in your opinion
03:38 who are the in-house for agents
03:39 on the team that they should
03:40 prioritize bringing back within
03:42 the next month or so.
03:44 It's a great question and with
03:47 every team in this portion of
03:48 the off season there is you
03:50 know they identify their needs
03:51 and then they start talking
03:52 about how they're going to meet
03:53 those needs because there's a
03:54 couple of different ways to do
03:55 that typically one is sign a
03:57 free agent whether it's your
03:58 own or somebody else's once free
04:00 agency opens or draft somebody
04:03 yes there are trades but less
04:05 likely to happen so it's really
04:07 hey are we going to get this
04:08 from the pro player stock are
04:09 we going to you know draft a
04:10 college player to fill these
04:12 needs and it's always a balance
04:14 right between the money you have
04:15 the needs you have and the
04:17 question of hey this guy played
04:19 pretty well he knows our system
04:21 is he the best possible edition
04:24 maybe not but there are other
04:26 reasons why guys get signed
04:27 hometown discounts all kinds of
04:29 things so given all that kind of
04:32 give a couple of options for
04:33 each starting off with those in
04:34 house free agents probably Trent
04:36 Brown Michael on when you Mac
04:38 Wilson maybe Kyle Duggar but
04:41 Kyle Duggar has an asterix next
04:43 to him and the asterix is how
04:45 much he's going to want he's
04:47 been a he's been a tremendous
04:48 impact player but we talked
04:49 about changes so if the defense
04:51 stays largely the same and they
04:52 rely on him to do all the things
04:54 all over the defense that they
04:56 have in years past yes you
04:58 resign that guy because he
04:59 becomes a linchpin if the
05:01 defense is going to be less
05:02 dependent on that role that
05:04 they've sort of funneled towards
05:06 Kyle Duggar and or they're not
05:08 terribly comfy with his coverage
05:11 grade which was not tremendous
05:13 last year they might be willing
05:15 to spend less than he wants and
05:17 then he would go hang a shingle
05:19 out on the open market and we'd
05:20 see what would happen so that's
05:22 kind of the asterix again if
05:23 they like what he's doing and I
05:25 think Mayo probably does because
05:27 they they push so much of the
05:28 defense on to him in the past
05:30 couple of years they probably
05:32 don't want to lose that that's
05:33 a that's like a one and a half
05:35 hole to create not just a one
05:36 player hole so those are the
05:39 guys I would say yeah you're
05:40 going to line those guys up
05:42 talk to him and unless
05:43 something's really crazy with
05:44 money you don't need to make
05:46 another hole that you then have
05:47 to fill because again if you
05:49 don't read resign in-house free
05:51 agents then you got to go out
05:53 onto the market possibly overpay
05:55 for a free agent or spend one of
05:57 the precious draft picks so
05:59 those guys kind of status quo
06:01 then the nice to have list I
06:02 think is Kendrick Bourne
06:04 depending on his rate he's
06:05 probably not going to try and
06:06 break the bank he was pretty
06:08 effective he had zero drops last
06:10 year which is pretty impressive
06:14 hunter Henry if he's reasonable
06:15 I think if he wants to stay
06:17 play with a new quarterback
06:19 likes the direction you know
06:20 meets with Alex van Pelt and
06:22 says hey I can do that for you
06:24 he would be on my list miles
06:25 Bryant because again he's
06:26 effective and versatile is he
06:28 going to is he going to like
06:30 move the needle in a lot of
06:31 ways no are they really
06:32 comfortable with him can you do
06:33 a lot of things for them you
06:34 need guys like that on the
06:35 roster so I would look at miles
06:37 Bryant Farrell Brown again if
06:39 you're not going to sign Farrell
06:40 Brown what are you going to do
06:41 you going to go out and you
06:42 know throw dollars at a guy
06:44 like Noah Fanta are you going
06:45 to try and draft a tight end you
06:47 like maybe in the middle rounds
06:49 if you like Farrell Brown and
06:50 say hey I think he can be better
06:52 with a new quarterback like you
06:54 keep him Jalen Mills again a
06:57 roster filler really good run
06:58 defender not a guy you want to
07:00 isolate and coverage a lot but
07:02 look Patriots play plenty of
07:03 three safety looks everybody
07:04 does he can be a very effective
07:06 third safety up near the line
07:08 and then Josh Uche I know this
07:10 one's going to get a lot of
07:11 Patriots fans sort of uptight
07:13 about this only if he's only as
07:16 a situational pass rush yes sir
07:18 I do not want him as a run
07:20 defender I do not want him
07:21 playing a majority of downs but
07:23 as a fireball or off the edge as
07:25 a fourth or fifth rotational
07:26 sort of whatever you want to
07:28 call that role in the Patriots
07:30 defense like I'm fine with it he
07:32 would have to accept probably
07:34 pretty close to a minimum
07:35 contract because he's not
07:36 played up to his draft status
07:37 at this point but he is good in
07:39 that role it's just you have to
07:41 sort of narrow that role and pay
07:43 him appropriately and if he
07:44 thinks he can make more
07:45 elsewhere and he might be able
07:46 to you let that guy go
07:48 absolutely and I like that you
07:49 mentioned early on the Trent
07:51 Brown and Mac Wilson Mac Wilson
07:52 is someone I feel like really
07:53 slides under the radar but one
07:55 had a much better season once he
07:57 got better in the system they
07:58 even acknowledge they didn't use
07:59 him optimally in his first year
08:01 with the team he also put on a
08:02 lot of muscle was better as a
08:04 run defender more consistent as
08:05 a tackler and he has that
08:06 coverage ability but then the
08:07 pass rush that's where I'm kind
08:09 of saying like you said unless
08:11 Josh Ucce is coming to you on a
08:12 really inexpensive deal put Mac
08:15 Wilson there get a rookie who's
08:16 really just someone that you
08:17 want to develop but it's just
08:18 going to come in and immediately
08:20 be an impact players pass rush
08:21 I like that can you let the
08:23 people know why Trent Brown is
08:25 so valuable because he's in
08:27 kind of that Mac Jones sort of
08:28 territory where because of
08:29 behind the scenes stuff it's
08:31 kind of like all right if
08:32 people in the building want to
08:33 bring him back sure but I can
08:34 also see why they'd want to move
08:35 on but also he's a really good
08:37 player and he's probably going
08:39 to come cheap so please your
08:40 perspective why see somebody
08:41 that you have prioritized so I
08:43 I think he is a good player I
08:45 don't think he's going to come
08:46 cheap just because of
08:48 positional value like he is
08:51 still at a place we used to
08:52 think when tackles approach you
08:54 know 30 that you know they
08:56 would start to decline and 10 to
08:58 15 years ago they did now
09:00 tackles play 34 35 36 we see
09:03 some 38 year old tackles out
09:05 there like he's still got at
09:07 least you know I would say a
09:09 full three to four year
09:10 contract probably in him
09:12 playing at a good solid level
09:14 and again it's addition by
09:16 subtraction or keeping that
09:18 from happening because if he's
09:20 not the answer what are you
09:21 going to do there's not an
09:23 error parent there's not
09:24 somebody in waiting and it's a
09:26 very expensive position to fill
09:28 either through the draft or
09:30 especially through free agency
09:31 because if you're getting that
09:32 position through free agency
09:33 you're going to overpay for it
09:35 that's just the way it works so
09:37 if you can get him on a
09:39 reasonable even a high end
09:41 reasonable deal you have
09:42 familiarity you have a very
09:44 solid base of play I think fans
09:46 are always looking for better
09:48 and it's not necessarily out
09:49 there in this case certainly not
09:51 at the amount you can pay for
09:52 it so you got to look at it in
09:54 terms of the you know putting
09:55 your arms around the financials
09:56 for the entire offseason and
09:58 saying okay if we don't do
10:00 Trent Brown the price tag goes
10:02 up no matter what it's either
10:03 got to be a high draft pick or
10:05 it's got to be a big free agent
10:07 contract and that means we can
10:08 do less of these other things
10:10 down the list absolutely
10:12 actually we have a good
10:13 question while we're on the
10:14 subject of the offensive line
10:16 Mike and when now he's kind of
10:17 in that Kyle Duggar area where
10:19 you think he might get
10:20 franchise tag it's been a ton
10:22 of reports saying that
10:23 patrons might not bring him
10:24 back which I think would be a
10:25 galaxy brand decision especially
10:27 if you're trying to reintroduce
10:28 a different culture where you
10:29 actually pay the players you
10:31 draft and perform well for you
10:32 and you know emerges leaders on
10:34 your team so how do you value
10:35 Mike and when he do you think
10:36 he's someone they should bring
10:37 back or do you have an opinion
10:38 on whether he should play
10:39 tackle or guard and do you
10:41 think it makes any sense at all
10:42 for them to say all right we're
10:44 going to let this guy walk it
10:47 again it makes some sense if
10:49 they have a plan or they have a
10:50 reason that's the other thing is
10:52 we don't no matter who we are we
10:55 were not in the building and we
10:56 don't get to see all that stuff
10:57 that goes on so if there's a
10:58 reason that they don't want to
10:59 have him back whether it's fit
11:01 with the system whether it's his
11:02 fit within the team whether
11:03 there's been friction I don't
11:05 know any of that nobody really
11:06 knows any of that but if there's
11:08 a reason that they're going to
11:09 like sometimes you see a team
11:11 put a contract out and you're
11:12 like what in the world that's
11:13 super low the answer is we don't
11:15 really want you back like if you
11:17 want to come back for this we
11:18 realize it's kind of a
11:19 disrespectful offer but we're
11:21 fine with you walking we would
11:23 not have made that offer
11:24 publicly unless we were fine
11:26 with that we want to look like
11:27 we tried and you said no and
11:30 that's fine sometimes you see
11:32 that happen if there's
11:33 something like that going on and
11:34 they're already moving on
11:36 mentally they know they're going
11:38 to you know they've got a free
11:39 agent they like lined up because
11:42 regardless of tampering they
11:44 might already I hate to hate to
11:46 break it all the virgin ears
11:48 right but those things are
11:50 already being discussed prior to
11:52 the combine so if that's if
11:55 that's fine if they like him in
11:56 their system again it becomes
11:59 sort of keeping away from
12:01 subtraction by just keeping
12:02 somebody in the fold I'm not
12:04 making another hole if they're
12:06 comfortable and they feel like
12:07 he's going to transition well
12:08 for what Alex van Pelt wants to
12:09 do and the versatility you
12:11 mentioned tackler guard I think
12:12 that's just a plus right he's
12:14 played both in their system is
12:16 he better in one spot I would
12:17 probably keep him at tackle is
12:19 he fine at guard yeah he's
12:21 really good at guard and
12:22 anybody that can be anybody
12:25 that's not a liability at
12:26 either of those positions is a
12:27 great asset so again if
12:30 everything's cool sort of
12:32 behind the scenes with his fit
12:34 with the team and the scheme
12:35 moving forward because this is
12:36 going to change a little bit on
12:38 offense I'd I'd keep him around
12:40 he's a again he is a mid-level
12:43 NFL functional player in a lot
12:45 of his sort of grades or
12:47 outlooks with some high flashes
12:49 to go with that it's not
12:51 consistently great across the
12:53 board but he is better than
12:55 average in some facets and I
12:57 would say average at everything
12:59 else that's a really good NFL
13:02 player so as long as you're
13:04 comfortable with him you keep
13:05 him and then he's had like such
13:07 a funky career he comes into
13:08 the league yes it's like he's
13:10 used all over the place they
13:11 haven't made an extra tight end
13:12 like and then they finally start
13:14 using more consistently this
13:15 season obviously offseason ankle
13:17 surgery missed the entire summer
13:18 missed the opener came back as a
13:20 guard and understandably he
13:22 wasn't really playing at his
13:23 best level because he still had
13:24 to recover because you're
13:25 playing football for the first
13:26 time in half a year then you
13:28 saw it right tackle you know I
13:30 feel like he's a pro bowl guard
13:32 but a very good tackle but still
13:35 considering the value of the
13:36 tackle position and in Alex Van
13:38 Pelt system we're like you had
13:39 a Dwan Jones we add like a
13:41 350 pounder attack we saw how
13:43 that worked and how much they
13:44 really like to pull the interior
13:45 lineman kind of more of them the
13:47 outside guys and with the
13:48 Patriots really not having a
13:49 whole lot at tackle as you
13:50 mentioned I definitely do think
13:52 that if you know it lines up
13:53 with the Patriots want to do
13:55 kind of what they're feeling
13:56 internally I really do think he's
13:57 someone you got to bring back
13:59 now extension candidates what do
14:01 we think because there's one guy
14:02 that I feel like is not getting
14:03 talked about enough especially
14:05 league wide but when it comes to
14:07 you know talking about where the
14:08 Patriots are going to spend their
14:09 money it's like oh throw a bag of
14:10 Christian Wilkins I feel like
14:12 especially in a new regime where
14:13 you want to set a standard this
14:15 guy should probably be one of the
14:17 people you try to pay before a
14:18 lot of others but let's see if
14:20 we're on the same page about who
14:21 this is we are it's the other
14:23 Christian is Christian Barmore
14:24 yes sir and he's the one guy
14:27 that when you're looking at
14:29 who's eligible there's not that
14:30 many guys that are eligible for
14:31 extension this year for the
14:33 Patriots anyways there's really
14:34 only two and the only one that
14:37 should be at the top of their
14:38 list with a bullet is Christian
14:39 Barmore and Christian Barmore was
14:40 my DT one the year he came out I
14:42 was hard and fast on that I
14:44 believe that he was you know a
14:46 level above and would play well
14:47 very quickly he did you know
14:50 some things have gone on since
14:51 that it shouldn't change their
14:52 mind the price is only going to
14:54 go up you do not find guys like
14:56 that on trees you cannot
14:57 typically buy them in free
14:58 agents leave they don't shake
15:00 loose for the most part and if
15:02 they do they're wildly expensive
15:03 so the sooner they can sign him
15:06 the better off they are again if
15:08 he's amenable to that he has
15:10 superstar potential we've seen
15:12 him play at that level before he
15:13 is a defender that can impact the
15:15 game from that position by
15:17 himself which is rare probably
15:20 five to seven of those guys
15:21 league-wide at his position and
15:25 you know other than that Sean
15:26 Wade and Sean Wade is more the
15:28 nice to have right you traded for
15:30 him he's played pretty well he's
15:33 versatile he's got good size he
15:35 had a good season you don't
15:37 break the bank but again if you
15:38 could sign him and you're
15:40 comfortable with him and you can
15:41 sign him early we see it the
15:43 prices never go down we saw how
15:44 much the salary caps going to go
15:45 up this year contracts are
15:49 percentage of a salary cap so if
15:52 it was 20% of the salary cap
15:53 last year and it's 20% of the
15:55 salary cap next year it's going
15:56 to be a lot more next year
15:57 because the salary caps taking a
15:58 pretty significant jump this
16:00 year so again the earlier you
16:02 can sign a guy the better off
16:04 you're going to be absolutely
16:06 and Sean Wade you know the
16:08 Patriots definitely do have a
16:09 need a corner they have a lot of
16:10 bodies but when it comes to guys
16:11 you're like yeah trot them out
16:12 there have a lot of confidence
16:13 Sean Wade had to play way more
16:15 than anybody expected and he was
16:16 all like really tackling is
16:18 inconsistent he gives up a lot
16:19 of cushion but at the same time
16:22 with what they were going
16:23 through a cornerback all the
16:24 rotation it was kind of one of
16:25 those things where it's like hey
16:26 if they're not getting behind
16:27 you I can live with like a 15
16:29 yard stop route or something
16:30 like that it's not the worst
16:31 thing in the world but that is
16:32 definitely an interesting
16:33 candidate but far more truly
16:34 like I'd wear the bullet with a
16:36 bullet thank you okay I haven't
16:38 heard it enough and I needed to
16:39 make sure that I wouldn't go
16:40 crazy but I think he's now
16:41 growing into a fantastic player
16:43 especially with his improvement
16:44 in run defense that was the big
16:46 one where he weekend and week
16:48 out is eating double teams and
16:50 then shedding them and still
16:51 making plays yeah we're on the
16:53 same page there all right we're
16:54 going to start moving on to some
16:55 people outside of the
16:56 organization that could
16:57 potentially come in and make a
16:58 difference but first quick word
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17:31 partner of the NBA
17:38 all right now moving on to free
17:39 agency just a couple weeks away
17:41 we talked about how the Patriots
17:42 are prioritized the people in
17:44 house let's talk about out of
17:45 house because I feel like the
17:47 defense is much more loaded than
17:49 the offense in this free agency
17:50 class they got some guys I think
17:52 you could probably get at a good
17:53 value the receiver market who
17:54 knows how that's going to shake
17:55 out there's some big names there's
17:57 some weird caveats where you're
17:58 not sure if they're going to be
17:59 retained or what have you but
18:01 defense especially with a team
18:02 that you know that's definitely
18:04 their strength so it's okay do we
18:06 want to spend our money and get
18:07 some pieces on offense we can
18:09 maybe build around or just
18:10 sustain us for a year or do we
18:12 want to absolutely load up on
18:13 the defensive side of the ball
18:14 and win that way who are some of
18:16 the people you think on either
18:17 side of the ball they could bring
18:18 in and they could be
18:19 contributors potentially
18:20 difference makers yeah
18:22 difference maker is where it gets
18:24 really interesting in terms of
18:27 the offense versus the defense
18:30 the offense was not functional
18:32 last year like I don't care which
18:35 league rank you want to look at
18:37 offense is more important in the
18:39 modern NFL than defense you
18:41 could argue that past defenses
18:43 may be equal to but in terms of
18:46 offense and scoring points you
18:47 need a passing game and the
18:49 Patriots did not have it now
18:51 multiple reasons for that but
18:52 wide receiver is certainly one
18:54 of them you talked about
18:55 cornerback having a bunch of
18:57 guys but no one guy that you're
18:59 really going to go point to and
19:00 say that's our guy you know
19:02 third and seven the entire
19:04 stadium knows the ball is going
19:05 to him we're going to throw it
19:07 anyway and he's going to convert
19:08 they don't have that guy so if
19:09 they're not drafting one with
19:10 number three if they're not
19:11 getting a quarterback through
19:12 another means and picking up
19:14 Marvin Harrison Jr. at three
19:16 they probably try they probably
19:18 need to take a bunch of that
19:19 money they have and try and go
19:20 big at wide receiver they need
19:22 to get an alpha and it will be
19:23 expensive make no mistake wide
19:25 receiver is one of the most
19:26 expensive positions in the NFL
19:29 that's probably T Higgins maybe
19:32 Calvin Ridley at a lower level
19:34 depending on how comfortable
19:35 they are with the reasons for
19:37 his performance or lack thereof
19:38 last year in Jacksonville T
19:40 Higgins going to be one of the
19:41 top if not the top free agent
19:43 wide receiver they need a guy
19:45 like that they need that big
19:47 target they do not have them
19:50 others you probably still need
19:51 some more even if you do that no
19:53 matter whether you draft or sort
19:55 of dump a free agent bag on a
19:58 wide receiver for an alpha you
19:59 still need more because I don't
20:01 think I talked about Kendrick
20:02 Bourne as a resigned candidate
20:04 he's he's a filler he's a three
20:06 or four he's fine he's role
20:07 player but he's not like Robert
20:09 Woods vibes kind of you know
20:11 yeah I would agree with that I
20:13 think you know Robert Woods in
20:15 his prime was better Robert
20:16 Woods you know over the rest of
20:18 his career has been somewhat
20:19 similar and I think a lot of
20:20 people wouldn't say that about
20:22 Kendrick Bourne because Kendrick
20:23 spent a lot quieter but some
20:25 others DPJ Donovan Peoples
20:27 Jones he'd come cheap and he
20:29 knows van Pelt system that could
20:31 be a value or not that's up to
20:34 van Pelt he knows him very well
20:36 he'll know whether he wants to
20:37 throw some money at him sneaky
20:39 one is darn El Mooney darn El
20:41 Mooney got open at the third
20:43 best rate against man for all
20:45 the free agent wide receivers
20:46 this year so he was he was
20:49 Justin second read a lot of the
20:51 time adjusted and make it to a
20:52 second read a lot of time darn
20:54 El Mooney didn't just get bad
20:55 all of a sudden and he may come
20:58 at a discount he could take the
20:59 regular role and better like he
21:01 could be you know punt returner
21:03 he could be definitely wide
21:05 receiver three he can play wide
21:06 receiver to he did in his most
21:08 successful years in Chicago KJ
21:11 Osborne will be another option
21:12 that's down the board for me
21:14 again he can play outside he
21:16 does play outside in Minnesota
21:17 or has played outside in
21:18 Minnesota I don't think you
21:20 probably need to sign both Mooney
21:22 and Osborne I think they
21:23 overlap enough but those are
21:26 just some targets again you got
21:28 to get your alpha one way or
21:29 another it's going to be
21:30 expensive you're either going to
21:31 spend a really high pick on it
21:32 or a big bag and free agency and
21:34 then you still need some other
21:35 guys because you're not done
21:36 with just one yeah especially
21:38 with the receiver position even
21:40 if they do get like a Ridley my
21:41 thought is first you got to get
21:42 your quarterback in your
21:43 offensive tackle position
21:44 settled and that's when you can
21:46 have fun and get your nice
21:47 shiny wide receiver in the first
21:48 round so I'm really convinced
21:50 that next year is the year that
21:51 they get their true alpha number
21:53 one receiver who doesn't have
21:54 age concerns or injury concerns
21:56 or you know something happened
21:58 in his career and you didn't
21:59 hear about him it's like no
22:00 foundation get your pieces and
22:02 then you can have the fun toy
22:04 all right last one we got draft
22:07 fits combine next week we got to
22:09 start talking about this who do
22:10 you think would fit and also
22:12 after you go through that I
22:13 would love to know who Patriots
22:14 fans in your opinion should have
22:16 their eyes on during the combine
22:18 next week first best fits yeah
22:20 best fits so I've got three
22:23 positions here that I think
22:25 there's some good options for in
22:27 the draft and the first one is
22:29 song strong safety if they move
22:31 on from Duggar that's the big
22:32 caveat so again they you know
22:34 they come to an impasse it
22:36 doesn't fit Duggar moves on
22:38 three guys cam kitchens for
22:40 Miami Bo braid from Maryland and
22:43 Sione Vaki from Utah sort of in
22:45 that order that's about where
22:47 they'll be drafted you know
22:48 they'll go off the board roughly
22:50 in that order all three of those
22:52 guys you know they're not
22:54 necessarily going to be the
22:55 physical marbles all of them
22:57 very few people are that Duggar
22:58 is he's a freak athletically but
23:01 they all fill a very similar
23:03 role and vibe to what Duggar has
23:05 done in New England so those are
23:07 three strong safeties nickel if
23:09 they don't resign Miles Bryant
23:11 and again I know they've got a
23:13 backup and waiting which is
23:14 great that's a wonderful
23:15 position to be in as a team but
23:19 again Miles Bryant moves on then
23:21 you got one guy in the nickel
23:22 role you definitely need more
23:23 than that in the modern NFL Mike
23:27 Santastro from Michigan is their
23:29 nickel a lot of people are
23:30 familiar with him from the
23:31 National Championship run he's a
23:33 very good player Jerry and Jones
23:35 from Florida State again another
23:38 very successful very versatile
23:39 player got to talk to him at the
23:41 Shrine Bowl he's a great dude I
23:44 love him I love him as a player
23:45 he's not the fastest but then
23:46 again either smiles Bryant is
23:48 very very effective willing to
23:50 he's good tackler well-built
23:52 about 196 pounds will stick his
23:54 nose in there in the run fits
23:55 which you have to do as a nickel
23:57 and he's versatile we asked him
23:59 hey you know you want play
24:00 corner you want to play safety
24:01 said I play defensive back
24:02 because you know most defensive
24:05 coordinators want to play one
24:06 safety in four corners and when
24:09 you're playing quarters that's
24:11 that's it right it's all man
24:13 after a second so he said I'm I'm
24:16 a DB I don't really care I'll
24:17 play nickel I'll play safety you
24:19 can call me a pie down low
24:21 doesn't matter inside outside I
24:22 don't think he's necessarily got
24:24 the speed to hang outside
24:25 consistently with a lot of the
24:27 NFL mutants but he's tough
24:29 strong he's really smart got a
24:31 great attitude and the last one
24:33 is Andrew Phillips guy that
24:34 showed out at the Senior Bowl
24:35 Kentucky he'd be another you
24:37 know I think very interesting
24:39 possibility I'm interested to
24:40 see how he does combine did
24:42 great at the Senior Bowl
24:43 actually hold a little bit more
24:44 stock in that because it's
24:46 actually playing football
24:47 against other players but be
24:48 interesting to see how he tests
24:49 he's a great strong nickel and
24:52 then running back this one's
24:53 interesting it's more than
24:55 receiving change of pace it's
24:56 not looking for the alpha
24:57 lead back it's getting
24:58 something or some extra
25:01 qualities that you may have in
25:02 remandering but you want a
25:03 little bit more of or just you
25:05 know change of pace give him a
25:06 break Ray Davis from Kentucky
25:09 although he is a bowling ball of
25:11 a dude he was one of the
25:12 leading receivers as a running
25:14 back in college football love
25:16 his game Blake Watson from
25:18 Memphis if you're talking about
25:19 pure like receiving as a
25:21 running back the leading CFB
25:23 receiver as a running back last
25:26 year Bucky Irving little bit
25:28 more speed out of Oregon also a
25:31 very good receiving threat a
25:32 little more change of pace
25:34 change direction reminder he's
25:36 got great feet but he doesn't
25:38 have that sort of short area
25:40 electricity that Bucky does so
25:41 he would bring again something
25:43 you don't necessarily have and
25:45 the last one's way down the
25:46 board might not even have to
25:47 draft and probably do Jawa
25:49 Jordan Louisville again very
25:52 good receiver and your Jordan
25:54 one of the best blockers of the
25:55 group that I just mentioned
25:56 which I know is going to be
25:57 important with somebody new
25:59 manning quarterback position in
26:00 New England and then a little
26:02 bonus little local flavor
26:05 Dylan LaBae let's go okay I was
26:09 waiting on that one let's use
26:11 his pro comparison is a guy that
26:12 played in New England for a long
26:14 time so let's just let's just
26:15 follow the trail let's just put
26:17 Dylan in New England down the
26:19 board and I think he'd be a fan
26:21 favorite pretty much instantly
26:23 the reason there's a 39 in I
26:26 never point the right way there
26:27 is the reason is a 39 in there
26:29 is because of Danny woodhead
26:30 when I started following you go
26:32 he was my favorite player it was
26:33 like Tom Brady who I'm looking
26:35 at the short white running back
26:36 thank you very much love the
26:38 lobby love that very much and
26:40 also I got to ask you yeah
26:42 criminal if I didn't the
26:43 quarterbacks I will talk about
26:44 the top three guys Caleb Williams
26:46 I think you know he's not making
26:47 it to the past but Jane Daniels
26:49 and Drake may it seems like one
26:51 of those guys has a pretty decent
26:52 shocks we don't know J Daniels
26:54 picking up steam combine could
26:55 even shoot it up even higher so
26:58 how comfortable would you be with
27:00 the Patriots taking either guy
27:01 what are some things you think
27:02 would be exciting and with bit in
27:04 their scheme you know especially
27:05 with McAdoo how much he loves
27:06 just physical talent and then you
27:08 have Alex Van Pelt who also like
27:10 emphasizing leadership he wants
27:11 accuracy decision making all that
27:12 but leadership was a big thing
27:14 for him so between those two guys
27:16 how would you feel about either
27:17 one of them being selected at
27:19 number three overall I think
27:21 they're both great prospects I
27:22 spent oh about five days a week
27:26 ago with the top four
27:27 quarterbacks because it is going
27:29 to be certainly I'm a Bears fan
27:31 it is going to be the dominating
27:32 discussion of this offseason it
27:34 already has been and you know
27:36 that might bleed over to England
27:37 there's been some talk they might
27:38 be interested in Justin Fields
27:39 we'll see about that but in terms
27:41 of just the draft and
27:42 quarterbacks I really don't think
27:45 unless the Patriots move up that
27:48 they're going to get a shot at
27:49 May I think May will go number
27:51 two that leaves Daniels and
27:52 that's not a that's not a
27:55 backhanded compliment like he had
27:57 more improvement than any other
28:00 quarterback in this draft from
28:02 last year to this year last year
28:04 he was pretty average in a lot of
28:07 ways and this year he was
28:08 exceptional everybody will talk
28:11 about the receiving core I get
28:13 it those guys get open they're
28:14 going to get drafted really
28:15 highly but he is the best deep
28:18 ball thrower in this class in
28:20 terms of accuracy and timing
28:22 doesn't necessarily have the
28:23 best arm has a very good arm for
28:25 his size but in terms of getting
28:27 the ball where it needs to be
28:28 down the field he is the best
28:30 down the field thrower of the
28:32 football in this draft and his
28:33 legs are special may is a very
28:37 good athlete and he reminds me
28:40 very much of Justin Herbert
28:41 Justin Herbert is a guy who's a
28:42 great athlete when he takes off
28:44 he's super fast he doesn't do it
28:46 a lot but it's there and he can
28:47 pick up 30 or 40 yards it's not
28:50 a primary piece of his game but
28:52 it's there that's that's may
28:53 Daniels is he's Lamar light he
28:58 really is when he hits that back
29:01 foot and takes off that burst is
29:04 special and he makes you know he
29:07 had 163 yards versus Alabama
29:10 Alabama's got five defenders
29:12 that are going to get drafted in
29:13 the top 150 like these are this
29:16 is the best college defense you
29:17 think they weren't ready for him
29:19 like they were ready for him and
29:21 he took four yard or four runs
29:23 over 20 yards each in that game
29:26 like he was on a different speed
29:28 that was when I was like oh no
29:29 this suits for real so you can
29:31 say quarterbacks are mobile or
29:33 quarterbacks are running threat
29:34 and then there's Jane Daniels
29:35 who is on another level there but
29:37 also when you look at his again
29:39 elevation from last year to this
29:41 year as a passer nobody made more
29:43 strides and if you you know
29:45 depending on how you think about
29:46 quarterback development you know
29:47 some people say oh he's going to
29:49 regress some people say hey he
29:50 hasn't his ceiling yet like
29:52 Daniels is a very intriguing
29:54 player he would be a very
29:56 different fit for the Patriots
29:58 Patriots fans would learn to love
30:00 him very quickly he would be
30:01 excitement every Sunday wide
30:04 open playbook especially in
30:05 those empty packages van Pelt
30:07 loves empty and he touched on
30:09 last season how to Sean Watson
30:10 gave him the ability to like it's
30:12 not just passing over an empty
30:13 because you also have to think
30:14 about the QB run game really do
30:16 like I think may gives you that
30:17 as well but like you said Jaden's
30:18 on a totally different level you
30:20 brought up Justin field as
30:22 affairs closely what's the book
30:24 on him and is he someone the
30:25 Patriots should seriously
30:26 consider trading for because I've
30:28 seen the QB school and JTL
30:30 Sullivan mentioning that there
30:31 are times where you see that
30:32 like a anticipation and it's
30:34 kind of like why aren't we
30:35 seeing more of this and why
30:36 aren't they really catering to
30:37 his strengths we saw last year
30:39 Patriots fans remember Justin
30:41 very well because the Bears
30:42 wait we have a Ferrari
30:44 quarterback why are we not you
30:46 know using the Lamar game plan
30:47 and they stole that and ran the
30:49 Patriots right out of their own
30:50 home stadium so you know there's
30:53 still obviously the criticism
30:54 holds onto the ball too long
30:55 all those things are those
30:56 accurate you know do you think
30:57 the criticisms are fair or do
30:59 you think there's more
31:00 potential than maybe he's
31:01 getting credit for both right
31:04 there are times when he can
31:06 play better in the offense
31:08 around him there are times
31:10 certainly over the first three
31:11 seasons where the offense the
31:12 coaching has let him down has
31:15 that been has that relationship
31:16 in all one way or all the
31:18 others at all the offense's
31:19 fault all the coaches fall or
31:20 is it all Justin's fault
31:21 neither they've both been to
31:23 blame that makes it harder to
31:24 pull it apart there are times
31:27 like you said JT and I talk all
31:29 the time and there are
31:30 definitely times when he sees
31:31 it is able to move through his
31:33 progressions and make really
31:34 good plays from the pocket the
31:37 criticism is yes it takes him
31:39 still longer to do that then we
31:41 would like to see it year three
31:43 that's just a subjective measure
31:45 of we would like to see more
31:47 progress at this point with a
31:49 guy that has 39 starts like
31:51 that's a lot of starts not a
31:53 lot of guys that aren't very
31:54 good get that many starts we
31:56 don't we don't have that sort
31:57 of you know that much grist for
31:59 the mill for a lot of guys
32:00 we've seen a lot from him the
32:02 running ability is special he is
32:05 not like Lamar because he is
32:07 bigger stronger more powerful
32:10 and as fast I don't think he's
32:12 as quick but he is easily as
32:14 fast if not a little bit faster
32:16 so he's his own kind of runner
32:18 but he can break games open
32:19 that way it is about operating
32:22 the offense from the pocket on
32:24 time and on schedule and not
32:26 turning it into those things
32:28 when you don't need to and it
32:30 reminds me very much of what
32:32 Andy Reid said to my homes in
32:34 the first season when he was a
32:35 starter which was the first two
32:37 and a half seconds are mine you
32:39 do what I want for the first two
32:40 and a half seconds then go be
32:41 Patrick I don't want to
32:42 legislate Patrick out of you but
32:44 the first two and a half
32:45 seconds you do what I say then
32:47 you just do what you do and I
32:49 think whoever ends up coaching
32:51 Justin Fields next has to
32:54 establish that and say I need
32:57 you to do what I need you to do
32:59 consistently for the first two
33:00 and a half seconds look at that
33:02 breaks down go run 80 yards and
33:04 score a touchdown because you
33:05 can like I'm not going to keep
33:06 you in the pocket finding that
33:09 balance is going to be a thing I
33:10 think Justin will be successful
33:11 in this league I think he will
33:12 be the starter in this league it
33:15 it is about landing spot the
33:16 Bears were not the best landing
33:18 spot for a number of reasons I
33:20 hope they would be as a Bears
33:21 fan I wanted Justin to succeed
33:23 desperately I think again given
33:27 an offensive coordinator that he
33:28 can mesh with and plenty of
33:30 talent around him he's going to
33:31 need that lots of quarterbacks
33:33 do hasn't always had that in
33:35 Chicago if he lands in a
33:36 talent-rich spot a lot of people
33:38 are talking about Atlanta like
33:40 give Atlanta like one more piece
33:42 at wide receiver and put Justin
33:43 in that offense could be a lot
33:45 of fun is he worth it for the
33:48 Pats with an early second round
33:51 pick while they're still
33:52 rebuilding that's the thing is
33:54 you're going to have to pay him
33:55 not this year but next year so
33:57 you're not going to see a huge
33:59 huge financial savings that you
34:01 would even picking a quarterback
34:02 at three because draft picks are
34:05 slotted certainly at the top of
34:07 the draft by slot not by
34:08 position so it doesn't matter
34:10 what position you pick you're
34:11 paying them a pre-agreed price
34:14 at a slot for quarterback that's
34:16 far below what the typical
34:18 average starting quarterback
34:19 gets so that's what everybody
34:20 talks about that quarterback
34:22 savings on a rookie quarterback
34:23 deal if you go to a position
34:25 interestingly enough like
34:26 tight end you're actually paying
34:28 what the top tight ends make
34:29 right off if you draft a tight
34:31 end in the top ten quarterback
34:33 it's not that way you have a
34:34 huge savings Justin's only a
34:35 year away from getting paid and
34:36 I think the minimum is probably
34:38 the Daniel Jones deal plus
34:40 interest because it's been a
34:41 couple years like that's going
34:43 to be about the range for him
34:45 as a starter so you have to
34:46 decide whether you want those
34:48 traits and whether or not
34:49 you're comfortable with where he
34:50 is now and where you think you
34:51 can take him and the other thing
34:54 is the opportunity cost of not
34:56 having to spend the number three
34:57 pick on a guy like Jane
34:59 Daniels and instead accelerating
35:01 that timetable that you talked
35:02 about Taylor and getting a guy
35:03 like MHJ at three and saying hey
35:06 now we have fields and MHJ a
35:08 year early now is that exciting
35:11 enough for us to say hey we have
35:13 to pay Justin next year and
35:14 figure that into your financial
35:15 so it's all you know it's plates
35:17 on sticks right if one falls you
35:19 got to have another one they may
35:21 very well decide that this is a
35:24 better option than trying to
35:26 spend a year with a rookie or
35:28 they may say hey we want that
35:29 rookie benefit for you know
35:32 financial benefit for five years
35:34 and we're okay like you said
35:36 waiting year getting our alpha
35:37 next year and really making a
35:39 run at that point depends on
35:40 where they're at where Robert
35:42 Kraft is at in terms of
35:43 organizationally like how much
35:44 rope they have and we'll see but
35:48 it would be fast it will be
35:50 fascinating either way let's put
35:52 that way men to close out the
35:55 combine you're going to be there
35:56 I'm going to be there super so
35:58 there yeah who should pass fans
36:00 be like yeah who should pass
36:01 fans be looking out for or even
36:03 more generally who are you going
36:04 to be looking out for if it's
36:06 for fit if it's for pure
36:08 entertainment like there's
36:09 somebody you think is just going
36:10 to blow everybody away and it's
36:11 just like yeah at the end of the
36:12 day if you think this is still
36:13 fun watch this guy give me some
36:15 names yeah there's there's a lot
36:17 of that I think that's what it's
36:18 you know really good for you're
36:20 always as a draft analyst
36:21 looking for the exclusionary
36:23 thresholds that guys don't hit
36:24 at certain positions you know if
36:26 a pass rusher has a really bad
36:28 three cone or you know you know
36:30 doesn't have a great 10 yard
36:31 split or a cornerback has
36:32 terrible agility or something
36:33 like that can drop them out
36:35 other than that it's really the
36:37 popcorn factor of how many guys
36:40 under 300 pounds are we going to
36:42 see run sub 540s and I bet that
36:45 number is going to be higher
36:46 than it's ever been how many
36:48 guys are we going to see run for
36:50 twos this year we might see three
36:52 or four I know there are at
36:54 least three guys that have run
36:56 for twos timed in training
36:57 already around the country at
36:58 places like XO's it's a very fast
37:01 group so that's always great
37:03 popcorn fodder we're going to see
37:05 a lot of very very powerful guys
37:07 guys like Chris Jenkins from
37:09 BYU Kingsley sue Mataya the
37:12 tackle from BYU he might run in
37:15 the four eights at 320
37:18 something put him on the list
37:21 Pat's guys put him on the list
37:23 there's going to be a lot of fun
37:24 performances there always are
37:26 it's fun to see how far the bar
37:27 gets pushed up every year and
37:28 you know yes there'll be some
37:29 guys where this hurts their
37:31 stock a little bit either
37:32 through measurements or again
37:33 falling below a threshold but
37:35 for me it's just way more fun to
37:36 see the superlatives and to and
37:39 to pull guys from down the
37:41 board that you know didn't play
37:43 at a big school maybe didn't get
37:45 the all-star invite do get a
37:46 combine invite and you know some
37:49 six three receiver runs of you
37:51 know four three one and you're
37:53 like oh okay like I think we
37:55 could work with that so it's it's
37:57 a great time looking forward to
37:58 being there looking forward to
37:59 seeing you there absolutely EJ
38:01 this has been a blast thank you
38:02 so much for joining us please
38:04 let the people know where they
38:05 can find you and what fantastic
38:07 work I'm sure you got coming
38:08 down the pipeline yeah bootleg
38:10 football is really it go to
38:11 YouTube search bootleg football
38:13 you will find us there putting
38:14 out two pieces of content a week
38:16 one draft focused pod and one
38:18 interview that we pulled from
38:20 the Shrine Bowl each week until
38:21 the draft we'll have a couple of
38:23 live streams just so everybody
38:25 can blow off steam and ask
38:26 draft questions before that and
38:28 then when we get to the draft we
38:29 do famously live stream every
38:32 pick and we will be doing that
38:33 live stream so make sure you
38:35 guys are tuned in and we'll see
38:36 you there I watch religiously
38:38 you all should too highly
38:39 informative and a great way to
38:40 catch up if you don't have the
38:41 time to get all that information
38:43 yourself you guys do a great job
38:45 thank you again for joining
38:46 brother thank you all for