Taylor Kyles of CLNS Media and Zack Cox discuss Patriots head coach Jerod Mayo's comments from NFL League Meetings, including their approach to rebuilding, continued attempts to weaponize the offense, and more!
This episode of the Patriots Daily Podcast is brought to you by:
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Football season may be over, but the action on the floor is heating up. Whether it’s Tournament Season or the fight for playoff homecourt, there’s no shortage of high stakes basketball moments this time of year. Quick withdrawals, easy gameplay and an enormous selection of players and stat types are what make PrizePicks the #1 daily fantasy sports app!
#Patriots #NFL #NewEnglandPatriots
This episode of the Patriots Daily Podcast is brought to you by:
Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100! Pick more. Pick less. It’s that Easy!
Football season may be over, but the action on the floor is heating up. Whether it’s Tournament Season or the fight for playoff homecourt, there’s no shortage of high stakes basketball moments this time of year. Quick withdrawals, easy gameplay and an enormous selection of players and stat types are what make PrizePicks the #1 daily fantasy sports app!
#Patriots #NFL #NewEnglandPatriots
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SportsTranscript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - What's going on everyone?
00:24 Taylor Kyle's here for CLNS Media,
00:26 coming at you with another episode of Bats Daily,
00:28 brought to you by our good friends at Price Fix,
00:30 the exclusive daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media,
00:33 but more from them later.
00:34 For now, I got my buddy Zach Pox on with me
00:37 to talk about Gerard Mayo's appearance
00:39 at the NFL League meetings.
00:41 We got to hear from him at the AFC coaches breakfast.
00:43 Just more transparency that we're not really used to
00:46 from a Patriots head coach.
00:47 We'll see how it goes long-term,
00:49 but I mean, it's nice to hear,
00:51 like it at least feels that they understand
00:53 what fans' trepidations are with what's going on so far,
00:56 and they're trying to make sure
00:57 that everybody's kind of staying in the loop.
00:58 But first, before we get into all that stuff,
01:01 Zach, how are you doing, buddy?
01:03 - I'm doing good, Taylor.
01:04 Thanks for having me back on.
01:05 Always good to come on and chat with you.
01:07 - It was a pleasure to chat with you, my man.
01:09 All right, so before we actually get into Gerard Mayo,
01:11 we do have some breaking Patriots news,
01:14 mostly concerning Miles Bryant.
01:16 Officially signs with the Texans
01:18 after a quiet couple of weeks,
01:19 it seemed kind of strange that a guy
01:21 who played such a big role in their defense last year
01:23 weren't really hearing anything from him.
01:24 Even a guy like Anthony Jennings
01:26 after that first initial wave,
01:27 then you saw him come back on.
01:29 So how did you feel about the fact
01:32 that Patriots are losing Miles Bryant?
01:33 'Cause obviously, been one of the few guys
01:35 who's been able to stay on the field for them.
01:37 He's got his limitations, we all know,
01:39 but he was a consistent player
01:40 when he was put in position to succeed.
01:42 And then we also saw when push came to shove
01:44 and they just ravaged by injuries at cornerback and safety,
01:48 you saw him move up and down the secondary.
01:50 So what were your thoughts on his departure?
01:52 And do you think it means anything
01:54 in terms of the Patriots
01:55 and where they're going from a personnel perspective?
01:58 - It did seem like the writing was on the wall
02:01 with Miles Bryant to an extent after reading,
02:04 I believe it was in Mike Reese's Sunday notes the other day,
02:07 saying that the Patriots still have a potential interest
02:10 in bringing him back,
02:11 but only at a value that would kind of correlate
02:14 to his standing as a depth backup reserve type player.
02:18 And it seemed like they weren't really
02:19 on the same page with that.
02:20 At the time of this recording here,
02:21 we haven't seen any of the financials for the Texans deal.
02:25 So it'll be interesting to see what that looks like.
02:27 But no, I thought Miles Bryant,
02:29 basically more so than any Patriots player
02:32 over the last couple of years,
02:33 just caught way too much heat from the fan base.
02:36 Yes, as you mentioned, he has his limitations.
02:38 He's not a pro bowl level player.
02:40 He's not a guy that you're gonna just say,
02:42 "Hey, we'll stick you on Tyree kill all game
02:44 and you'll follow him around and wipe him out."
02:46 That's not the level of player that he was and is,
02:50 but he's a smart guy.
02:51 He's a tough guy.
02:52 He's super versatile, as you mentioned,
02:54 can play in the slot, has played back at safety,
02:56 even played some outside cornerback at times
02:59 over the last couple of years.
03:00 Just a real team first type of guy too.
03:03 So I think he got a little bit of a bad rep
03:06 from the fan base, probably mostly just going back
03:09 to those battles he had with Isaiah McKenzie
03:11 a couple of years back.
03:12 I think that sort of is what stands out
03:14 in Patriots fans' mind about Miles Bryant.
03:17 But you look at the stats,
03:19 I mean, he played 75% of snaps last season,
03:22 was top four on that defense in tackles,
03:25 tackles for loss, passes defended, snaps played.
03:28 So he was a really important piece
03:30 on a very good Patriots defense.
03:32 And it's gonna be interesting to see
03:33 what they do in the slot now,
03:34 because you assume that'll probably be Marcus Jones
03:38 if he comes back healthy.
03:40 But I mean, Bryant was able to hold off Jones
03:43 even before Jones went down with that injury last year.
03:47 So yeah, definitely gonna be putting a lot more
03:49 on Marcus Jones's plate,
03:50 or maybe we see them go bring in some other slot corner
03:54 here in the next couple of months.
03:55 - Yeah, so I was thinking the same thing,
03:56 or whether maybe John Jones kicks back into the slot
03:59 and they try to get somebody
03:59 who's more of a natural fit outside.
04:01 But that whole position,
04:02 the one thing about Miles Bryant that you really knew
04:05 was that he was at least gonna be able
04:06 to stay on the field for you.
04:07 There's so many guys other than like Alex Austin
04:09 and Marco Wilson, you got guys that are coming off
04:12 season-ending injuries, or guys like Jonathan Jones,
04:14 where, I mean, bless his heart,
04:15 the guy is tough as nails and is playing in games
04:17 he probably shouldn't be playing in,
04:19 but he's been super banged up as well.
04:20 So it does feel like a bit of a gamble,
04:23 but also we know it just feels like they're trying
04:25 to get more explosive and faster on defense.
04:28 So maybe this is one of those things
04:29 where you just kind of fell down
04:31 on their list of priorities, I guess.
04:33 And another one from the meetings
04:35 that I wanted to get your thoughts on
04:36 are the hip drop tackle ban.
04:39 Now this is one I feel like that was very divisive.
04:42 You've seen players like defenders,
04:44 even some offensive players,
04:45 we heard from David Andrews last year,
04:47 kind of being like, I mean,
04:48 you legislate everything out of the game,
04:49 eventually it's just like,
04:50 what are people supposed to be doing out there?
04:52 But at the same time, I was of the camp of,
04:54 something needed to be done,
04:56 because this was a very, at least from my perspective,
04:59 this is a very specific type of tackling where,
05:01 you know, I've never tried to tackle someone
05:03 like Travis Kelsey or Krong,
05:05 or these guys are holding on for dear life
05:06 'cause they weigh a hundred pounds less.
05:08 But when you talk about taking out someone's ankles,
05:11 like those are the kind of injuries
05:12 that guys really can't come back from.
05:14 So did you feel like it was something
05:15 that needed to be addressed?
05:17 Do you think it's kind of overblown?
05:18 And are you kind of worried about
05:20 how it's actually gonna be enforced?
05:22 - Well, some of the numbers behind it are compelling,
05:25 at least the ones that the NFL has released,
05:27 saying that these types of tackles
05:29 have a 25% higher injury risk than any other play
05:33 or any other type of tackle,
05:35 or not even 25%, 25 times a higher injury risk
05:39 than a normal tackle.
05:40 When you see those numbers
05:41 and you see some of the kind of high caliber players
05:44 that have been taken out by these types of tackles
05:47 in the last couple of years,
05:48 it makes sense that the NFL
05:50 would wanna do something about it.
05:51 But I don't know,
05:52 anytime when it's a player safety related situation like this
05:57 I usually defer to the players on what their opinion is.
06:01 And even though there are some who have said,
06:03 "Yeah, this is a good thing that had to happen."
06:06 The vast majority of the reaction that we've seen
06:09 has been you can't take this kind of play out of football
06:12 because it just keeps,
06:13 you've already taken away so many variations
06:18 of what defensive players are able to do.
06:20 They can't hit high anymore,
06:21 they can't hit with the crown of their helmet,
06:23 they can't hit quarterbacks low,
06:24 they need to do all these.
06:26 Eventually it is going to evolve into a situation
06:29 where you just,
06:29 it's so difficult for her to be a defensive player
06:33 in the modern NFL.
06:35 But the big thing that stood out to me is,
06:37 as you mentioned,
06:38 Ramondre Stevenson suffered an ankle injury
06:41 that ultimately was season ending on a hit
06:43 like this last season.
06:45 Immediately after that game,
06:47 you had players, including offensive players,
06:49 including David Andrews, including Ezekiel Elliott.
06:52 You went up and asked him, you said,
06:53 "What do you think about this play?
06:55 It's a controversial play."
06:57 And even they said, they're like,
06:59 "I don't think you should get rid of this play.
07:00 I don't think you can continue to legislate
07:02 these types of hits out of the game.
07:03 Eventually it's just going to end up being flag football."
07:06 You expect a quote like that from someone like Jabril Peppers
07:09 or a defensive player.
07:10 But when it's his fellow offensive players
07:13 that have that opinion,
07:14 that resonated with me and that stuck out to me today
07:19 when this actually, the ruling here came down.
07:21 But it was reportedly unanimous.
07:23 The owners clearly want to get it out of the game.
07:25 So it's going to be very interesting
07:27 to see how it's legislated.
07:28 'Cause I think this could be a difficult thing to decipher
07:32 in kind of full speed, real time in game.
07:35 - And also, if we're being very honest,
07:37 you have to look at it from the league's perspective.
07:38 One, like you mentioned,
07:39 there were so many high profile injuries
07:41 that came from this type of tackle.
07:43 So that's the first red flag where it's like,
07:45 all right, once quarterbacks
07:46 and like really prominent players start to drop,
07:49 that's the-
07:49 - It's the moneymakers, yeah.
07:51 - Exactly.
07:51 And then, I mean, scoring's down.
07:53 I don't think this is something the NFL is like,
07:54 "Oh darn, we have to make it easier for offenses
07:57 and give them another leg up.
07:58 Oh, twist our arm, we got to do it."
08:00 So there's definitely different perspectives.
08:02 And I want to make sure that we like are very honest
08:04 about what the realities are.
08:06 But I mean, again, it's just,
08:08 it is such a specific type of tackle
08:10 and one that seems like, I mean, yes,
08:12 it's going to be tougher, but I mean, I don't know.
08:15 You're kind of, it's at the same time,
08:17 it's tough because you just have these guys, again,
08:19 holding on for dear life
08:20 and they can't bring people down.
08:21 Tough issue, but we'll see how it's legislated ultimately.
08:24 All right, now moving on to Gerard Mayo, man of the hour.
08:29 Spoke to media members after what was like
08:31 a relatively quiet free agency.
08:33 Before we really get into some of the more nitty gritty,
08:36 what did you think kind of going into
08:38 Gerard Mayo's comments about what they've done so far
08:40 in free agency?
08:41 Because obviously not a whole lot of splash signings
08:43 that people were expecting.
08:45 Yeah, I think Patriots fans have the right to feel
08:49 underwhelmed by everything that's gone on
08:51 in the last month or so since free agency opened.
08:55 As you mentioned, there hasn't been the splash signing.
08:58 They still basically have major question marks
09:01 at all three of the positions that were major question marks
09:04 going into free agency.
09:05 Quarterback, wide receiver, left tackle.
09:07 You don't really know what the Patriots are going to do
09:09 at any of those spots at the moment.
09:12 Obviously still time to patch some of those holes
09:14 and I know we'll get into that in a little bit.
09:17 But on the whole, I didn't see a lot of
09:21 real missed opportunities for the Patriots.
09:24 I mean, obviously the big one was Calvin Ridley.
09:26 They were in it with Calvin Ridley.
09:27 To the end, according to multiple reports,
09:29 they made offers, they made a push for him.
09:31 They really tried to sign him.
09:33 I think at the value that he ended up signing for,
09:36 that is a higher value than I would put on Calvin Ridley.
09:41 Maybe you can say, well, they had the cap space.
09:43 They should have just gone out and used it.
09:44 Yes, I can see that argument as well,
09:46 but it's a weird situation to be in fear of the Patriots
09:51 'cause I like almost all of the moves that they made,
09:53 both the moves that they made
09:54 and the moves that they didn't make,
09:56 like giving $50 million guaranteed to Calvin Ridley.
10:00 But I also don't think that they're significantly better
10:03 now than they were when free agency began,
10:06 or certainly when the season ended
10:08 based on the moves that they have made.
10:10 So it just sets it up for this to be
10:13 a absolutely vitally important draft for the Patriots.
10:17 This is their most important draft maybe ever.
10:20 In several decades, at the very least,
10:22 they need to find multiple impact players
10:26 at multiple different positions,
10:28 or the Gerard Mayo/Elliott Wolfe era
10:31 is going to get off to a very troublesome start.
10:34 - Yeah, Gerard Mayo was very honest
10:37 about a lot of those realities,
10:38 saying, I was kind of surprised by him even acknowledging
10:41 that, yeah, sometimes there are just some guys
10:43 that we did want and it just didn't work out.
10:46 With the lack of weapons,
10:47 you can't really blame them for trying.
10:48 He mentioned they were 100% in on the trade market.
10:51 We've seen, I know Brandon Iuke,
10:52 I think John Lynch kind of poured some water on that fire
10:54 a little bit saying they wanted to work things out with him.
10:57 Padilbo Samuel's been talked about.
10:58 We saw T. Higgins,
10:59 who's almost definitely going to be traded
11:01 from the Cincinnati Bengals.
11:03 So they've been in on talking about guys through trade.
11:05 Again, Calvin Ridley was just one of those situations
11:07 where for a 29-year-old receiver in a rebuilding team,
11:10 you're not really going to sign a guy like that
11:12 to so much money on a four-year deal,
11:13 even if it is one dummy year.
11:14 That's kind of a tough situation to put yourself in.
11:17 But what did you think about the strategy
11:18 once you actually got to hear Gerard Mayo's perspective
11:21 and kind of get to see more of where their head is at
11:24 as they're trying to steer the ship in the right direction,
11:26 given there wasn't a whole lot for them to work with
11:28 on the market as he acknowledged?
11:30 - I think the major theme
11:33 of this whole Gerard Mayo press conference
11:36 was this is not going to be a quick fix,
11:40 that it doesn't seem like the Patriots,
11:43 I mean, obviously they want to contend this season.
11:45 They want to be back to Super Bowl level this season.
11:48 From what I can tell,
11:50 it doesn't seem like that's what they expect right now.
11:53 It seems like Gerard Mayo and Elliott Wolfe
11:55 are viewing this as a multi-year process
11:59 where they hope they improve this season.
12:01 They hope they're not a four-win team again this season.
12:04 They hope they put some kind of
12:06 cornerstone type players in place.
12:08 But just based on all of the answers
12:11 that he was giving today,
12:12 it doesn't seem like they're kind of gearing up
12:15 to make a run for it this year.
12:17 It was a lot of talk about,
12:18 we got to establish New England again
12:20 as a place where people want to come play.
12:22 He was talking about getting magnet players,
12:24 guys that can draw other free agents to New England,
12:28 because it's pretty clear
12:29 that where they are currently as a franchise,
12:31 that's not the status that they have.
12:33 There's really nobody that's saying,
12:35 "I want to go play for the Patriots
12:36 just because it's the Patriots,"
12:37 that allure is long gone from that team.
12:40 So I think after hearing him speak today,
12:45 he mentioned patience a couple of times.
12:47 He said, "Just let the guys in here do our jobs.
12:49 We've got a plan, but it's going to take time."
12:52 Mentioned building through the draft,
12:53 not going out and overpaying for free agents.
12:55 So yeah, the overall kind of takeaway for me was,
12:59 if you're expecting the Patriots to sell out this year
13:03 and attempt to be back to Super Bowl contention
13:06 just by buying their way to it,
13:08 I don't think that's going to be the case.
13:09 I think this is going to be a situation
13:11 where it takes two or three years
13:13 for their vision to sort of solidify there.
13:17 - And the best way to do that
13:18 is to have success in the draft.
13:20 That way you can accelerate that process,
13:22 rely on some of your younger players
13:23 to fill big roles,
13:24 and then you're at least in a better spot
13:26 than where you're at, where again, you're the Patriots.
13:28 You're in a state with really high taxes.
13:30 You're already going to throw a lot of money at these guys.
13:32 It's going to be tough sledding.
13:33 But Gerard Mayo did touch on the draft
13:36 in some of the ways that they do plan
13:37 on filling some of those holes.
13:38 Before we get to those,
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14:50 All right, so Gerard Mayo once again mentioned
14:52 that they do have a lot of holes,
14:54 but this is the kind of draft
14:56 where they're pretty fortunate.
14:57 There's talent kind of throughout this entire day one,
15:00 day two, day three, you can find good values.
15:02 So looking at the top three positions
15:05 that they need to fill,
15:06 obviously premium positions, not exactly gonna be easy,
15:08 but who are some of your favorite options?
15:10 Whether it's through the draft
15:11 or maybe through some type of trade,
15:13 they kind of go off in your mind and saying,
15:14 okay, these are realistic options.
15:16 Who could at least get them in the right direction
15:18 if not make some kind of immediate impact?
15:20 - I still think you could see a trade at some point,
15:24 either a trade or a pickup of somebody
15:27 who's a cap casualty,
15:29 maybe a guy who gets cut early in training camp.
15:32 I think they will make some sort of substantive addition
15:36 to the wide receiver group
15:37 and or the offensive tackle group.
15:39 Odds are that's not going to be a T Higgins level
15:44 kind of game changing type player,
15:46 but there is still the possibility of something like that
15:48 coming together.
15:49 I think the most, by far the most likely way
15:52 of finding impact, pro bowl caliber,
15:55 legit franchise cornerstone type players
15:58 at either of these three spots at this point
16:00 is through the draft.
16:01 And as you mentioned,
16:02 this is a good year to be needing players
16:05 at all three of these positions.
16:06 I mean, it's a really deep wide receiver class.
16:09 It's a very good offensive tackle class
16:10 and it's a good time to be needing a quarterback,
16:13 especially if you have a pick like the Patriots do
16:16 up in the top three.
16:18 The problem is, if you're, as we mentioned earlier,
16:21 you're going into this with,
16:23 all of those are still very big needs.
16:24 So I think it's a very unlikely scenario
16:27 that they're going to get their franchise quarterback,
16:31 get their long-term number one wide receiver
16:34 and get the guy who's going to start at left tackle for them
16:36 for the next 10 years, all in the same draft.
16:38 So I think one of those is still going,
16:41 at least one of those is still going to be a need
16:44 for the Patriots moving forward into this season,
16:47 which is part of why,
16:49 goes back to what I was talking about before
16:51 about this not being a kind of quick fix,
16:54 Patriots are back next year.
16:56 It's going to be a little bit longer of a process
16:59 just because when you have holes at those premium positions,
17:03 even if you have deep classes at all three of those spots,
17:05 like this draft does, it's really hard to,
17:09 you basically have to ace the draft.
17:10 You have to get, say, okay, A plus first round pick,
17:13 A plus second round pick, A plus third round pick.
17:16 And the guys who are doing it in Gerard Mayo
17:18 and Elliott Wolfe have never done this
17:21 on a full-time shot calling level.
17:24 Obviously they've both been around draft rooms
17:26 and whatnot before,
17:27 but Elliott Wolfe has never been a de facto GM.
17:30 Gerard Mayo has never been a de facto head coach
17:32 who's kind of in charge of an entire roster.
17:34 So I think it's a lot of pressure
17:37 and it's a challenge that they probably
17:40 will not be able to meet.
17:41 I think ideally for the Patriots,
17:44 you get one of those three has to be like a slam dunk.
17:47 You say, if you come out of the draft
17:49 or come out of next season and say,
17:50 all right, we aced that one.
17:53 We're still gotta work on these other two.
17:54 We'll piece them together somehow.
17:56 I think that's a respectable goal for the Patriots
17:59 'cause I think it's expecting them to get
18:02 all three of these needs kind of checked off in the draft
18:05 is it's just a little unrealistic.
18:08 - And we keep coming back to it.
18:08 It's gonna take time.
18:09 It's gonna be slow.
18:11 And with that, a lot of the conversation has gone to,
18:13 okay, if it's gonna take so long to rebuild this team,
18:16 is it responsible for them to get a quarterback?
18:18 Now, yes, you're at a position in the drafts
18:20 where you may never be here again.
18:21 Even if you get multiple first round picks next year,
18:24 doesn't guarantee you're gonna get to a spot
18:25 where you can get a real franchise guy at quarterback.
18:28 Gerard may have even said, we need to be very confident
18:30 in whoever we get with the third overall pick
18:33 if it's gonna be a quarterback
18:34 'cause this has to be a franchise guy.
18:35 So from your perspective with Mac Jones,
18:38 he acknowledged that a big part of his failure
18:41 in New England was the fact that
18:43 it wasn't just the players around him,
18:44 it was also the coaching.
18:46 We had a different offensive coordinator
18:47 and quarterbacks coach every single season with the Patriots
18:50 on top of the fact that you look at the skill positions.
18:53 Troy Brown is no longer the wide receivers coach.
18:55 There was a reason for that.
18:56 Offensive line coaching was up and down,
18:58 a lot of inconsistencies.
18:59 So when you look at the staff,
19:01 even kind of going beyond some of the holes
19:03 that they plugged so far,
19:04 mentioned TC McCartney, Alex Van Pelt.
19:07 We still have a lot to learn about these guys.
19:08 And he mentioned we're in the honeymoon phase.
19:10 So still very early.
19:12 But do you think that what they've done
19:14 with the coaching staff can actually be enough
19:16 to at least say, okay,
19:17 the offense can have some form of stability
19:20 because they have a staff with so many people
19:21 who have experience together, unlike last year,
19:23 where it's just like a weird hodgepodge of guys
19:26 who've never even seen each other before.
19:28 - I think so.
19:29 I think the coaching staff is less of a concern
19:32 from in that whole department than maybe the roster.
19:35 I can see the argument of,
19:38 you've got so many holes all over your roster.
19:39 Do you really want to throw a kind of day one
19:42 rookie starter out there and have him get killed
19:45 behind potentially a leaky offensive line
19:48 and have nobody to throw to?
19:49 I think from a coaching perspective,
19:51 they've put a pretty good framework in place.
19:55 At the very least, it's a lot of experienced coaches
19:58 who have done this before.
20:00 And it seems to have a level of cohesiveness
20:04 on the offensive side that just wasn't there last year.
20:07 It was basically in 2022,
20:09 you had two guys with really no offensive experience
20:12 trying to run that offensive staff
20:14 and Matt Patricia and Joe Judge.
20:16 And then last year you get Bill O'Brien in
20:18 who was experienced and knows what he's doing,
20:21 but he wasn't able to build out the staff around him.
20:23 And then there were just issues from that
20:25 basically occurring all season.
20:27 So I think they're in a much better spot now.
20:30 I don't know if Alex Van Pelt is going to revolutionize
20:34 the NFL as an offensive coordinator this year.
20:36 I think the, I don't know, maybe the ceiling
20:38 for this offensive coaching staff probably isn't as high
20:41 as if you have Sean McVay running your offense.
20:44 But I do think that there's at least stability in there.
20:49 Helps that Jacoby Brissett's there as well, who can also,
20:52 I mean, Gerard Mayo basically called him
20:53 like a pseudo coach today.
20:55 He said he's able to help teach the young quarterback
20:58 and his new teammates the offense
21:01 'cause he played in it, played under Van Pelt in Cleveland.
21:05 But I do think also that it helps
21:09 that the people running the show now in Mayo
21:13 and in Elliott Wolfe were around for the Mac Jones debacle
21:18 that they were, they saw, and I mean, Mayo said today,
21:22 he acknowledged how detrimental it was to have a situation
21:27 like the one that the Patriots put Mac Jones in
21:30 over the last two years from a roster perspective
21:33 and from a coaching perspective.
21:34 Mayo even mentioned the support staff.
21:37 He said like that wasn't up to snuff
21:39 for a young quarterback in the spot where Mac Jones was.
21:43 So I think the fact that they were,
21:45 ideally they should be able to use those last two seasons
21:49 where they were kind of on the ground, looking at it,
21:51 seeing it every day as a learning experience
21:54 for what not to do with the quarterback
21:57 that most people expect them to use that number three pick on.
22:01 - So with that being said,
22:03 Rod Mayo did still leave the door open to a potential trade,
22:06 which I think is still smart because if you can,
22:09 I like Drake May a lot
22:10 and we'll get to him a little bit later,
22:12 but you could still make the argument
22:14 that these guys aren't sure things.
22:15 And Mayo said Alonzo Highsmith was telling him
22:18 any pick that he's seen gone bad
22:19 is one where people weren't on the same page.
22:21 And there was disagreement,
22:22 which obviously is one of the big reasons
22:24 that Bill Belichick is no longer on the team,
22:26 where it felt like he was kind of monopolizing
22:28 the draft process where all this work could be done.
22:30 But he felt a certain way about a pick
22:32 and that was what they ended up going with.
22:34 So in your opinion,
22:35 do you think if they can get a guy like Drake May
22:38 because of the upside or even a Jaden Daniels,
22:40 you say, absolutely, that's your franchise,
22:42 or are you of the opinion that you can still
22:44 try to build out the rest of the offense,
22:46 get a surefire guy like Oluf Ashanu or Brock Bowers,
22:49 and then get a couple of first round talents
22:51 and be set up in the future to kind of one,
22:54 move up the board if you want a quarterback
22:55 or just continue to load up
22:57 and at least be in a spot
22:58 where you don't need a superstar quarterback,
23:00 but you can get say a Brock Purdy,
23:02 just somebody who can drive the car
23:03 with a bunch of like superstars all over the place,
23:05 obviously that you're building through the draft.
23:08 - Yeah, so here's where I stand on the number three pick.
23:11 I was, it was the quote that Mayo had today.
23:13 If we take a quarterback at three,
23:14 that means we are convicted that this player
23:17 is really the future of this organization.
23:19 If they feel that way about whoever is there at number three,
23:24 whether it's Jaden Daniels or Drake May or JJ McCarthy,
23:27 I'm not really a fan of JJ McCarthy at number three,
23:30 but if whatever quarterback is there at number three,
23:33 if they've scouted him, they've vetted him,
23:35 and they say, this is a legit franchise guy,
23:38 then you take him.
23:39 That's the easiest way to do it.
23:40 The easiest way to get back to contention in the NFL
23:43 is to hit on a superstar quarterback.
23:46 If they think that whoever's available for them,
23:49 there can be that kind of player,
23:51 then I think you take them.
23:52 I think you just, you send in the pick, say, cool,
23:54 we've got our quarterback, we'll figure everything else out.
23:56 That's the hardest thing to get anyway.
23:58 If they don't, if it's, okay,
24:01 we've got some reservations about this guy,
24:04 but we don't have a quarterback,
24:06 we know we need a quarterback,
24:07 let's get them and kind of see if we can work with them
24:10 and see if we can work something out.
24:12 If there's the reservations there,
24:13 if they don't think that,
24:15 if they think it's a reach to be drafting
24:16 whoever they're drafting
24:17 just because they need a quarterback,
24:19 then I would say you trade back.
24:21 There's going to be some team that's willing to move up
24:24 and give you a pretty good haul, I'm sure,
24:26 for that number three pick, maybe the Vikings,
24:28 maybe the Broncos, maybe one of those other teams.
24:30 Then you move down, you get your tackle,
24:33 you get your wide receiver,
24:34 maybe you draft a quarterback later in the draft,
24:37 maybe in the second round or something like that.
24:39 And then you try to circle back
24:41 and do it again at a later date.
24:44 But I think ideally you're not going to be picking
24:47 as high as the Patriots are for a while
24:50 if this rebuild goes the way that they hope it does.
24:54 And it's pretty difficult to land that number one
24:58 kind of franchise caliber quarterback
25:00 if you're not picking up at the top of the draft
25:04 'cause that would require trades
25:05 or a fortuitous guy falling down to you
25:07 or something like that.
25:09 So yeah, SparkNotes version,
25:11 if they're sold on a quarterback, take a quarterback.
25:14 If they have reservations, trade back
25:16 and then use those picks to fill those other holes.
25:20 - When you talk about that conviction
25:21 at the quarterback position,
25:22 I thought some of the comments about Drake May
25:24 were pretty interesting.
25:25 Again, because Mayo did mention
25:27 that he wants to make sure everybody's on the same page.
25:29 Now I know Tony Pauline reported a few weeks back
25:32 after the combine that not everybody
25:34 inside the Patriots building was on the same page
25:36 about Drake May because as we saw,
25:39 was it a really tough UNC offense
25:41 in terms of just the scheme wasn't really great,
25:43 the supporting cast wasn't very good.
25:45 I mean, if you watch like the Notre game
25:47 and the Clemson games where he's just getting pressured
25:49 like at the top of his drop immediately,
25:51 some bad habits started to kind of slip in there.
25:53 And John may have mentioned,
25:54 yeah, you can look at the ceiling.
25:55 And this guy, he even said,
25:57 Drake May is a guy who doesn't really have a ceiling.
25:59 He's so talented, but he also mentioned
26:01 that you have to look at the floor as well.
26:02 And that's what you're starting with.
26:04 And with Drake May, you can't ignore the fact
26:06 that he does have some significant mechanical issues
26:09 that lead to just some wild just misses
26:11 where it's not even close to the point where it,
26:14 kind of does look a little bit like Zach Wilson.
26:16 So with all that being said,
26:18 do you think the risks that Drake May comes with
26:20 are too much for the third overall pick?
26:23 Or do you think the ceiling is so high
26:25 and the issues are somewhat correct
26:26 and we'll give him these pretty young
26:27 that it's worth taking the gamble?
26:29 - I do like Drake May a lot.
26:31 At the moment, if he's there at number three
26:35 and I'm the Patriots, I'm taking him.
26:36 I think that the ceiling does outweigh
26:40 some of the potential concerns,
26:43 which are going to be there for every quarterback
26:46 in this draft.
26:47 But if you look back at NFL history,
26:51 the odds of three quarterbacks going one, two, three
26:55 at the top of the draft and all three of them hitting
26:58 are extraordinarily low.
27:00 And most likely one of these guys, if not more than one,
27:05 are not going to pan out.
27:07 In Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, and Drake May.
27:10 I looked it up a week or two ago.
27:13 There's only two times in the last 50 years
27:16 that quarterbacks have gone one, two, three
27:19 at the top of the draft.
27:20 One of them, 2021, a couple of years back,
27:22 Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance.
27:25 The other one was 1999.
27:28 It was Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, and Akeelie Smith.
27:32 So that's basically a two for six,
27:34 maybe even a one and a half for six,
27:36 if you say that Lawrence or McNabb
27:40 never became like MVP caliber type players.
27:44 But yeah, so it happens a lot.
27:47 It's not going to, there's a very low chance
27:49 that all three of these guys are going to hit,
27:51 which is why you need to have that conviction
27:53 that you actually want that player,
27:55 not that you want a franchise quarterback
27:58 and this guy is here,
28:00 so we hope that he'll maybe be that guy.
28:03 It's easy to get kind of,
28:06 to sort of fall in love with the idea
28:09 of a franchise quarterback, especially in a year like this,
28:12 but it's why they're, the kind of the scouting
28:14 and evaluation of these guys
28:16 is going to be extremely important.
28:18 And I'm sure that's what the Gerard Mayo and Elliot Wolf
28:20 and that whole staff over there
28:21 are spending the vast majority of their time on
28:24 over the next month or so before draft day.
28:26 - Yeah, and even like you talked about
28:27 how Ben McAdoo's involved in the quarterback situation.
28:30 So based on his past history of what he likes in quarterbacks
28:32 you'd think that Drake May would be the guy
28:35 because again, the talent,
28:36 but at the same time, if they want to be honest
28:38 and they want to put the money where their mouth is
28:39 with all this is going to be about collaboration
28:41 and everybody's opinion matters,
28:43 then you really can't make the pick
28:44 if there's a bunch of guys in the room that are like,
28:46 I just don't feel good about this.
28:47 So it'll be really interesting to see, but again
28:49 they are in a fortunate position
28:50 where they have good capital, they can move around.
28:53 And worst case scenario, I mean, if you just picked a player
28:56 in the position of need and every round in state put
28:58 I think they're still in a position
29:00 where it's kind of hard to screw up
29:01 as long as your scouting is up to par.
29:03 Are there any other notes that you kind of thought of
29:06 as your big takeaways from Gerard Mayo's availability
29:08 before I get you out of here?
29:10 - It is interesting too, that he,
29:13 Gerard Mayo is very clearly,
29:15 very clearly trying to distance himself
29:18 from the Belichick way of operating.
29:22 He's had praise for Belichick
29:24 in pretty much every one of his media availabilities.
29:27 He hasn't gone out and bashed his former coach or anything
29:30 but from the way that he's handling things internally
29:35 with his staff and with his roster
29:37 and with some of these moves
29:38 and just the way that he's handling the media,
29:41 he's making a concerted effort
29:42 to not be a Belichick clone,
29:46 which is what so many of Belichick's former assistants
29:48 have tried to do.
29:50 Most of them very unsuccessfully
29:52 in their head coaching roles.
29:54 The fact that Mayo sat down,
29:56 the first thing he said was,
29:58 "Hey guys, great to see all you.
30:00 I hope this is, today is a chance for us
30:02 to kind of explain some of the moves that we've made,
30:06 why we've been kind of handling the off season
30:08 the way that we have and sort of what our vision is
30:11 for the next couple of months."
30:12 If you look back at any of the Bill Belichick
30:15 availabilities at the owners meeting,
30:17 at these coaches breakfast,
30:19 this is notoriously the worst Bill Belichick
30:21 press conference of the entire year.
30:23 He just kind of sits there, grunts through everything,
30:26 will barely say two words about anybody on his roster
30:30 or off his roster.
30:32 I mean, you would never have pictured Bill Belichick saying,
30:36 "Yeah, we made a hard push for Calvin Ridley.
30:38 It's too bad it didn't work out.
30:39 We would have loved to have him as a player,
30:41 but like, we're moving on in a different direction."
30:43 That's something that never would have come out
30:45 of Bill Belichick's mouth.
30:46 So again, the success of Gerard Mayo is going to be dictated
30:51 by how successful he is on the field
30:54 and how quickly this Patriots rebuild
30:56 sort of completes itself.
30:59 But I think it's been very interesting
31:02 that he's gone into,
31:03 he's basically handled himself very intentionally,
31:06 I think, since his hiring of saying,
31:09 "Hey, I've got all the respect in the world for Bill,
31:13 but I didn't really agree with the way
31:14 that he did some things,
31:15 and I'm going to change those and do things differently."
31:18 We'll see if it works out for him.
31:19 But from, I mean, from a media perspective,
31:20 it's obviously kind of refreshing to have a coach
31:24 who's willing to be as open as Mayo has so far.
31:27 - And do you have any potential trepidation
31:29 in terms of the way that transparency
31:31 can maybe work against him?
31:33 Or do you really just think it's at the end of the day,
31:35 as long as you have success, it doesn't really matter?
31:37 'Cause obviously with so many years of Bill Belichick,
31:39 we're kind of trained that things have to be tight-lipped
31:42 because that was what worked for them.
31:43 But obviously this is a new era,
31:45 and we're kind of just, I mean,
31:46 obviously Mayo is as well in his regime,
31:48 but we're kind of feeling our way
31:49 through a very different environment.
31:50 So how do you feel about that?
31:52 - It's all going to be dictated by whether he has success.
31:54 If he has success, this is what the Patriots needed.
31:57 It's a refreshing new voice.
31:59 It's a deviation from an antiquated method
32:02 that Bill Belichick has.
32:04 If it doesn't have success, it's going to say,
32:06 man, you chased this guy out because he was kind of a grump
32:08 and he was sort of stuck in his ways.
32:10 You should have just stuck with Belichick.
32:11 Look, they're trying it a different way
32:13 and it's not working.
32:14 I mean, I think Mayo has already sort of gotten himself,
32:18 not in trouble, but he's created some headlines
32:21 that he probably didn't want to create
32:23 with his burn some cash comments,
32:25 which I think maybe set-
32:26 - He got walked back, by the way.
32:27 That was interesting.
32:28 He's like, no, I meant it.
32:29 He stood on it.
32:31 - Yeah, but I think maybe set some expectations
32:34 unrealistically for the fan base saying, all right,
32:37 they're going to go out
32:38 and hand out another 200 million guaranteed, let's go.
32:42 Obviously didn't really turn out that way.
32:43 So I'm sure it's going to be a situation
32:46 where he will probably put his foot in his mouth
32:48 a couple of times, just trying to be open
32:52 or trying to kind of joke around or do whatever
32:54 that I'm sure is, it's going to be received very differently
32:58 whether the Patriots are winning
33:00 or whether they're continuing to struggle.
33:01 But I think it's a welcome change.
33:04 It's, I don't think you need to be as kind of secretive
33:08 and buttoned up as the Patriots were.
33:10 They obviously had a lot of success with that
33:13 for a long time, but a lot of other teams recently
33:16 have shown that it's not the only way to win in the NFL.
33:19 And now Jerrod Mayo is definitely,
33:22 certainly skewing a little bit more toward
33:24 some of those other teams than his predecessor.
33:27 - See how it plays out.
33:28 But like you said, it's all about the success they have
33:30 or they don't have.
33:31 But Zach, thank you so much for your time, buddy.
33:33 Always appreciate you coming on.
33:35 Please let the people know where they can find you,
33:37 what stuff we should be looking out.
33:38 - Yeah, it's @ZM_Cox on Twitter,
33:42 still TBD on next moves beyond that.
33:45 But yeah, stay tuned.
33:46 I'll keep you guys posted on anything in that realm there.
33:49 And thanks again for having me on.
33:51 Always enjoy it.
33:52 Enjoy the rest of pre-draft season here.
33:55 - It was a pleasure, buddy.
33:56 Thank you so much.
33:57 And thank you all as always for watching.
33:59 Now take care of yourselves.