The Boston Celtrics are champions and have some good lessons for the New England Patriots. Which sports base is the most obnoxious in Boston, and at what point should Patriots fans believe in Drake Maye? Alec and Rich cover it all.
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00:00All right. Hello, everybody, and welcome to Patriots First and Goal. I am Alex Shane here
00:04breaking down absolutely nothing happening in the NFL with my good buddy Rich Hill.
00:08But just because the NFL is off doesn't mean you and I are off, buddy. I don't know if you have
00:13any plans this summer, but I'm looking forward to chilling for a little bit, kind of gearing up for
00:17training camp. The dates are announced. We can talk about that. There have been some very,
00:20very minor moves. We can talk about that. But I feel like this is going to be more of a what I do
00:25best on podcasts, which is kind of rambling incoherently about nothing in particular.
00:29That's what I'm looking forward to today. Yeah, man. I mean, the biggest thing that we could
00:35possibly cover on this podcast right now is a big congratulations to the Boston Celtics,
00:40all of their fans, for winning their 18th NBA championship. They just absolutely smoked
00:47everyone this entire year. They have a very clear argument for being one of the 10 best teams of all
00:52time. And it was great. It was great. It's been five years since the last Boston championship
01:00overall. Last one was the Patriots, Tom Brady's last hurrah. And that was between 2019, February
01:082019, and this month, the second longest stretch in Boston history, Boston sports history,
01:17in between titles. The other one was between the 80s, the Larry Bird years, and then the Patriots
01:23in 01. That was the longest one. This five-year stretch was the second longest drought in Boston
01:30sports history. So Alec, my question to you, how obnoxious are you going to be?
01:35Our long national nightmare is over, Rich Hill. The fact that there are kindergartners that have
01:39never seen a Boston sports parade is just a travesty that I'm glad we were able to correct.
01:44Again, I will always root for Boston sports. I can't sit here and claim I'm a diehard Celtics
01:50fan. I will watch them when they're on. I'll root for them in the playoffs. But I don't want to sit
01:56here and, you know, I'm definitely more of a warm weather kind of Celtics fan. So I will always
02:00celebrate any Boston championship. Like I said, my best friend's a longtime season ticket holder.
02:05He's having the time of his life right now. He's making a very strong full court press to get me
02:09up to Boston this Friday for the championship parade, which I'm currently contemplating
02:12because it's really fun. But I feel like a jerk being obnoxious in this context because I just
02:18don't have the fandom to really back it up. When the Patriots win one or when the Red Sox win one,
02:23I am insufferable. But I will gladly let maybe the more diehard Boston sports fans
02:29and the Celtics fans have their moment with this one.
02:31Okay. So actually then my next question to you is what is the rank order of
02:34obnoxiousness for Boston sports? Because I was talking to my friend Tim the other day,
02:38he was like, Boston College women's lacrosse also just won the national title. So, you know,
02:44across the board, the biggest New England sports team, most obnoxious to least obnoxious,
02:49how would you rank your reaction to each title?
02:52I feel like the I feel like the Patriots probably still have the title of most obnoxious fan base
02:57in in Boston, a because they had 20 years of dominance, followed by like, what, like three
03:04years of sucking. And they're just like, this is this is unacceptable. This is not the Patriots
03:12lose some games. I'm not going to watch them like they literally that is a narrative in a lot of
03:16Patriots game. They've like, had three years of like, suck it to and they just can't handle it,
03:21which is pretty embarrassing. And I can't really defend any of it. It's not their fault. Like I
03:28said, like the Patriots have been good since like 2001, which means there are like 30 year old men
03:34who just don't know what the world of normal sports fandom is like. And so it's not their
03:38fault. So Patriots before that they made the Super Bowl with blood. So you know, 96 97. So it's like
03:44even goes even before that. Yeah. And then probably after that, I guess it's probably
03:49got to be Red Sox fans. Red Sox fans are pretty much I think the Red Sox fans are they were just
03:55so long, just like the Yankees whipping boy. And all they really had was like Yankees suck chance,
04:01which wasn't even true. That's really all they had to hang their head out. We're just chanting
04:05Yankees suck over and over again until the Sox won 104 with the Dave Roberts deal. And
04:10then they haven't won since 2018, which is not long, but still, I like the Boston sports fans
04:14among the mass holes in Boston. Red Sox are probably number two. Celtics fans I have no
04:20problem with they seem pretty cool. And I feel like Bruins fans are their own species of human
04:24being that I don't want to talk bad about ever else they'll track me down and pull my shirt over
04:29my head and punch me in the face. I feel like the overlap between Bruins fans and then the other
04:36three fandoms are pretty separate for some reason. I don't know why I just feel like people who it's
04:40like clearly, you said different beats people are like enjoying going into a hockey rink. I feel
04:45like the other sports groups, there's much bigger overlap. But even then, like, obviously a
04:50disappointing ending last year, but the Bruins setting all those records for like best year ever
04:55best regular season ever, only to turn out like the Mariners a little bit, which is falling on
05:00their face at the playoffs. I mean, I agree with those rankings. I agree. And to the point of like
05:05with the Patriots, if they become competitive again, with Drake may with Gerard Mayo, I'm ready
05:12to be obnoxious again. I mean, because honestly, to so much of what we've been harping on and why
05:17it's been so frustrating over the past few years, why it feels like the sky was falling was because
05:21it was the dumb things. That's why they weren't competitive. It wasn't because like, they didn't
05:26necessarily have like great players or anything like that. But you know, putting up zero points
05:31is unacceptable at any level. And so it's the idea is that they're just like, turning over the ball
05:37that they don't have a third down back that they trade away their top offensive linemen for nothing
05:42in return and invest first round pick in a guard who's now going to be benched for city Sal who
05:46will be the starting left guard and won't give it up. I am positive on that one. But it's one
05:52where it's like, what would they have? They were like two and eight in one score games this past
05:57year. You get a slightly better offense. And this was always the thing. If they had a league average
06:02offense, this team would have stayed in the playoffs. They would have continued to not fully
06:08contend, but be annoying. They'd be the team that was sticking around. They'd be like the Bengals
06:12were for a very long time before Joe Burrow, the Andy Dalton Bengals. They'd make the dance,
06:17they maybe not make it all the way, but at least they'd be competitive. And that was the most
06:21frustrating part. And so I wouldn't be surprised if this new era of the Patriots just getting some
06:27fresh blood, they start doing that again. All it takes is one deep run and we're going to be
06:30annoying again. For sure. I mean, I feel like if you're a good team, a consistently good team,
06:37as a fan of that good team, you have two jobs, just like follow the team and know about them,
06:41be able to talk about them in sports bars and in conversations and be an obnoxious prick
06:45about how good your team is. I think those are two duties of a sports fan of going on a run,
06:51because you only have so many years of your life where your team is good. Even Patriots fans,
06:57you've had an amazing 20 year run. And in 20 years, we had six championships and there may
07:03never be another one. Maybe we'll get one more. But the narrative of the NFL is basically you
07:08stumble ass backers into a quarterback, you load them up with talent and hope you get one,
07:12right? That is how most teams win the Super Bowl. They get a good quarterback, whether it's first
07:16overall or it's Brock party, and they get some a bunch of talent around them. They go all in on
07:21their talent window or their championship window, and they hope they get one. And if you're in that
07:24window, you have to be obnoxious. It's like part of being good fan. And I'm looking forward to us
07:30Patriots fans getting back to our roots of just being insufferable, obnoxious fans who just don't
07:37want to listen to anything anybody says about anything else. And just Brady's the goat, everyone
07:43else sucks. Bella checks my God, everyone else should go away. I think it's wholesome in a really
07:50weird backward way. Yeah, life is a lot simpler when that's all you're you're really trying to
07:55defend as opposed to being like, I have to defend Jacobi Myers lateral that Chandler Jones picked
08:02off. Like, I'm not built for this. I'm not ready to defend this one to the death. Like, I don't
08:08like I don't want this team. I don't like this. But it's fun to you know, like other lessons coming
08:14out of this Celtics run, but also like the entire Patriots tenure where you see a lot of that overlap
08:19with like, what did Brad Stevens and Bill Belichick, you always hear how the head coaches, the GMs,
08:24like the head honchos of all the Boston sports teams work with each other. Joe Missoula talking
08:29to like pep, you know, learning soccer tactics on what can they do to get themselves over the
08:34top of getting themselves the championship. And I do think that one of the biggest things that you
08:39see with Brad Stevens and why they haven't broken up the Jays and why it ultimately paid off was
08:43what Belichick would always say like, the Ernie Adams approach, which is you can't build your team
08:49expecting it to win. You can't build a team expecting this is the year one year, I'm going
08:54to go all in and I'm going to win. That's just not how it works. And as you said, like, you have
08:59to look into a quarterback and maximize your turn on that run. Because it's going to be a run. It's
09:05a 10 to 15 year window that you have to just do everything you can during that stretch to try and
09:10win. And the big thing, though, is that you have to continuously do it. You can't say this is the
09:17year I'm going to push all my chips into the table because all it takes in football is one injury.
09:22And then all of a sudden, you're not a contender anymore. And so what you saw happen with the
09:27Celtics is, you know, they were in the conference finals, six out of the past nine years or something
09:32absurd like that, like they were, they were knocking on the door over and over and over again.
09:37And that's what it takes, right? Like, that's what we saw with the Chiefs when they were still
09:40going against the Patriots is that they kept knocking on the door. And then once the door
09:44opened, because Brady was gone, look, they've been cleaning up ever since. And that was what
09:49it was with the Patriots is, you know, the Tom Brady invitational, making it to the conference
09:52championship, nine years in a row, whatever the absurd streak was. That's what it is. You're not
09:58going to win every single time. It's there's a, you know, law of averages and regression,
10:03and you're not always going to be the best team, even though you might be a better team.
10:07But if you're in the dance enough, if you're able to say, I can be one of the four or five
10:13best teams in a given year, every single year, then odds are pretty good that over that 10 year
10:19stretch that you have your quarterback, that you're going to break through to the Super Bowl
10:22a couple times that you might even win one of them. But that's all that you can try and build
10:26around is what are the odds that you're going to be a contender, and you really need to have
10:31that quarterback to figure it out. And so maybe, you know, second half of this conversation talking
10:36around about, you know, what are we going to do for the rest of the season? There's also that
10:39thought of like, okay, with Drake may, what do you need to see in order for us to be like, maybe
10:45this is the guy, this is the person that we should build around that we should orient our next 10
10:50year window around? Because I feel like with Brady, it came really quickly when they just won.
10:57And like, okay, he's the guy moving forward. But what happened if we have a situation with
11:02the Patriots where it's like Jalen and Jason, where they get close, and you hear the whole
11:07conversation of they need to trade Jalen Brown, they need to trade them, they can't win together,
11:11they can't win together, they need to do this, get get Kevin Durant, go get Paul George, go
11:16get someone else because they can't win with Tatum Tatum, who you build around, and they stuck them
11:21together. They finally broke through. And I don't think a team has a better five year window than
11:26the Celtics do right now. And so what happens if Drake may doesn't break through immediately, but
11:32looks pretty good? What if he's like Trevor Lawrence, who just got his $275 million contract
11:36with the Jaguars with Daniel Jones s stats? At what point do we feel like Drake may is worth
11:42investing in? For answer that question? And she'll you brought up Trevor Lawrence, what do you think
11:47of that contract? Are you like totally blown away by it? I think it's reasonable. What are your
11:51thoughts on that contract? I think the guaranteed is a little wild. I think I like 200 million
11:56guaranteed. It's one where like, you have to do it. Right? Like if you don't extend him, you're
12:01going to be in quarterback purgatory. And you've seen enough flashes out of him like whatever
12:05playoff team like you can win around him. But this is the exact right question of like, is he
12:12good enough? Do you need to have Patrick Mahomes to win the Super Bowl? Or can you have a top five
12:18to 10 quarterback? And the answer has always been, it's going to be a lot harder. So can this
12:25quarterback break into that upper echelon of the top five quarterbacks in the league? Maybe
12:31is it worth holding on to, to see where he can build versus starting all over again. And honestly,
12:37if you're that front office, if you're the Jaguars, it makes sense, because in that football, more
12:41than any other sport, you're joined for your entire tenure, right? There are very few head
12:46coaches, very few GMs that get the opportunity to try to rebuild for a second time, or a third
12:52time, Bill Belichick got a long leash, because obviously he deserved it. But if you're the
12:57Jaguars, you're kind of committed. And it's kind of like a mutually assured destruction thing,
13:02where it's like Trevor Lawrence has to work out or everyone's getting fired anyways. So you might
13:06as well stick it out with him and say, look, we paid him, we got to build our team around him.
13:10And then maybe you buy yourself a few more years to make some noise.
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14:30Yeah, I mean, I always agree with the principle of that contract. If you have a quarterback who
14:35wins you games, not every team has that. Not like a Super Bowl ready, you have a legit shot for a
14:43championship with this quarterback. There's maybe like four of those in the entire NFL.
14:47But the rest of them have either like we are in quarterback hell right now, or there are a lot of
14:51question marks at quarterback, which is maybe a third of the league I'd say right now, including
14:55the Patriots. There's a lot of question marks in the Patriots. Then there's teams like that have a
14:59Trevor Lawrence who's like, he's going to win you some games. He's better than a lot of other guys
15:04out there. And it's either we take a shot on him. And I think I said in an earlier podcast,
15:09one of the worst places to be as a fan is a team with a lot of cap space and people on the hot seat
15:14because they're just going to spend really big because they're gone regardless. And I feel like
15:19that's kind of the window that they're in right now where they spent money on Trevor Lawrence
15:22because you said the alternative is what? Like go back to the drawing board again.
15:27Matt Jones steps in, who knows? I just think that yeah, I think it was like 197 million guaranteed
15:35at a 275 something just absurd like that. I'm getting flashed. Remember Mike Glennon,
15:41Rich Hill were like Mike Glennon got like a $75 million contract from Chicago because he won
15:46like two games as a starter. I just worry that this might've be a thing for the Jaguars. It
15:53goes back to the initial question, what we need to really see from, from Drake May.
15:59I'm expecting very little out of Drake May this season. I wouldn't think it's probably
16:04going to happen. I think he's, he's had a pretty decent mini camp, decent OTAs,
16:08had some moments of, of rookiedom, had some great throws. I don't really see him going anywhere major
16:15this year. Maybe this is a scenario where he comes in and the Patriots are out of it by like mid
16:19October, early November, and he becomes the guy and maybe he wins a couple of games. I just don't
16:25want another Matt Jones situation where he was maybe a paper tiger a bit. And if you go back
16:32with 2020 hindsight, looking at that 2021 season where the defense was really good and they played
16:37a lot of really crappy teams on a pretty straight stretch, and he didn't need to do a whole lot to
16:41win. And maybe we all got a little, we drank the cool little too quickly. I have zero expectations
16:47for Drake May this season. And anything he does is just either meaningful rep or overachieving.
16:53In my opinion, I want him to start in 2025. That is my goal, but let's take a year. Let's learn.
17:00You've got a good quarterback in front of you. Jacoby's going to win some games. He's going to
17:04lose some games. He's going to teach you how to be a professional in the NFL. He's been around the
17:08block and that's the best lesson you can take from Drake May. So my expectations are to learn,
17:13absorb, and ready to go this time next year. Yeah, no, I mean, I agree. I, we talked about
17:18this on the schedule podcast. Like I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots are one and seven,
17:23two and six, like halfway through the year, just based off of how brutal their early stretches.
17:28And then, you know, maybe they do hand it over to Drake May to close out the season just because
17:33why not? You know, it sounds like out of camp that there's not that much of a difference between
17:37Brissette and May. There's just no need to throw in May right out of the gate. But at that point
17:42in the year, maybe it's about seeing what you have. It can't hurt and why not? But yeah, I mean,
17:49all I'm looking for is that continued development, the progression that we just didn't see with Mack
17:53Jones. Mack Jones started out at his peak. He was just, just got worse each year, which is a failure
17:59on the coaching staff, but also like he's not absolved of blame as well. But when it comes to
18:04Drake May, what I want to see is that continued progression of growth where, you know, maybe he
18:09gets a few games this year as a rookie and looks adequate. You know, he's a full year starter in
18:152025. He gets them six, seven, eight wins. That'd be cool. And then come year three, though, that's
18:21where I feel like you really have to make the decision of does he make you contend for the
18:25playoffs in year three, not super bowl. It doesn't have to be super bowl. Would he awesome
18:29if it was super bowl, doesn't have to be super bowl. If he gets you into a viable position with
18:34the Patriots, where I expect them to still have a top tier defense at that point in time,
18:38where Drake May is leading them to a, an above average offense in year three, not saying top
18:4410 offense, but in that 10 to 15 range for a team, that's me being like, cool, continue to build
18:51around him, pick up that fifth year option with confidence, year four, maybe break into that top
18:5710 offense range, but just have that continued progression and growth where come, you know,
19:01he turns 2526 years old, then you have a 10 year window at that point where you know that, okay,
19:06he's going to give us a top 10 offense year in year out, we're going to have a top five defense
19:12year in year out. And if you're able to put those two pieces together, you're a legitimate contender
19:16every single year. I'm going to say a very dirty word in NFL language, Rich Hill right now. And I
19:22love your thoughts on it, how you feel there's any possibility this could happen. And it comes
19:27to quarterback position at any point in 2024. And that word is platoon. Any scenario where like the
19:36Patriots platoon Meyer, Brissett and Drake May and maybe give half and half or quarters or just like
19:44let them different packages, let them in once in a while as treat this whole season is like an
19:48extended training camp for him. Or is that continue to be the worst word you possibly use in the NFL
19:53because quarterbacks? Yeah, I feel like there's no reason to ever platoon a quarterback. You know,
19:58it's like there's certain things where you know, with your wide receivers, maybe someone's a better
20:03blocker and someone's a good slot receiver. So like, out of that interior spot, I can see you
20:08doing that. I can see you some snaps, you got to go pop Douglas some snaps, you got to go like the
20:12hybrid tight end Austin Hooper gets that. That's a platoon for offensive line and quarterback. I
20:17feel like those are just roles where you just shouldn't do that. But if you have to do it,
20:21you don't have a player for that role. And if you're doing it just to get Drake may snaps,
20:27then you get them in there all the time. Because I feel like quarterback more so than almost any
20:30other position. Rhythm is important. You're not going to learn anything by putting them out there
20:36for a few snaps for a goal line package, especially when like, from a skill set perspective, for
20:41that can do it. Like he's not like the most like Lamar Jackson as kind of thing, but he can move.
20:47And like, just like Drake may they have a similar profile of like,
20:50there are very much above average athletes, and they can both be mobile out there. But you're not
20:56going to be like, Drake may you're the the Tim T Boetsch fullback that we don't want to use reset
21:03for because also like, I'm not putting my quarterback in that position, my young investment,
21:07I'm not going to put them in harm's way for that. And so I think, like, unless you're like,
21:13Drake may I think you have a better arm in this situation than reset, in which case reset shouldn't
21:17be starting. So I just don't see there being a real world where it's worth doing it. Because if
21:24there's any real consideration, then may is your guy anyways, and just go with Drake may.
21:28No, I agree. I just I think the last time we did the maybe the Cardinals with Kurt Warner,
21:34we'll put it in quarterbacks one point back in like 2009. And Warner's like,
21:38arm was just shredded at that point. Like he needed like three snaps off a game. I see no
21:43reason for it either. But I feel like you know, Patriots fans are rich. I guess the other I wish
21:48Vegas is taking odds on how early the first call for Drake may comes in. I'm thinking maybe the
21:55middle of the first quarter of the first game of the season is probably he has one good drive during
22:01the preseason. Everyone's like, get rid of Brissett. It's me time. You know, it's that's
22:07what's gonna happen. Malik Cunningham all over again. 100% true. Hey, everybody. It's Alex Shane
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23:40today. Last minute deals, lowest price guaranteed. I've got no real real Patriots talk to talk about
23:46Rich. We have some more time left. So maybe I'd like to talk about any plans you got coming for
23:52summer. Anything you got on the horizon before fall season starts, get started putting some real
23:56time, effort and research into our work again. Yeah, man. So for the next three weeks, I'll be
24:01off. So the pod will be on hiatus, but I will be going to Costa Rica for three weeks. I'm very,
24:09very excited. It's going to be a lovely time. My four year old just learned about basilisk
24:15lizards, which I'm sure anyone else who was a parent and has a kid that went through a reptile
24:20phase has probably encountered at some point, but they are reptiles that run on water. And they are
24:26legitimately really cool. And you know, we watch Wild Crafts, one of my favorite shows. It's on PBS
24:32kids. It's these two brothers that like get creature powers. That's the whole thing is that
24:37they get the skills or special traits of whatever animal they're learning about that time. And so
24:42there was an episode that happened to also be about basilisk lizards. And then we learned that
24:48they're from Costa Rica. So we're gonna go and probably just look at lizards for the entire time.
24:54I'm pretty stoked. But I can't think of a better way to spend my summer. What are you up to?
25:00Before I answer that question, which is the you're going to Costa Rica? Is it like primarily to go
25:05look at lizards? Or is that it's a nice bonus because they happen to live in Costa Rica?
25:09Oh, it was a bonus completely unintentional. We were there for the beaches do a volcano thing.
25:13We thought he'd like that. He was also in a dinosaur phase thought that he would have fun
25:17with that. His little brother also loves dinosaurs. So that would have been great in and of
25:21itself. They have like sloth encounters and everything. But you know, coincidentally, his
25:27favorite lizards from there. That was just the cherry on top. So I'm very excited.
25:32Yeah, that worked out well. I mean, I'm sure you're an amazing dad, but going to
25:3623 weeks looking at lizards. I feel like that's above and beyond anybody with any kind of
25:40standards. So that's a me thing. That'd be me wanting to look at lizards at that point.
25:45Well, say hi to Toby Flenderson while you're down there in the office fans.
25:51My unfortunately, I don't have any major plans for the offseason. I've just moved. I've been
25:56in New York in some capacity, almost my entire adult life. I moved to Brooklyn in 2008. lived
26:02there for a very long time lived in Hoboken for a while. But I feel like the suburbs claims
26:06everyone eventually. So I've officially moved out of the New York City area. I now live in
26:11the suburbs of Pennsylvania. So I moved out of Giants territory and I moved into Eagles territory.
26:17I just can't seem to move away from play people that have beaten the Patriots in the Super Bowl.
26:21But here I find myself, but it's good. I will basically be moving in I I'm reminded once again,
26:28how much the act of moving moving just sucks in every way anything can suck. Even if you're
26:33really excited to move to where you're going. You just got to haul stuff and you realize how
26:37much junk you have that you don't need. And I spent most of yesterday putting together a
26:42dresser from Ikea, which was a miserable experience. I'm not doing anything fun. Maybe
26:47we'll go away for Labor Day, but I've got no, no, no vacations planned. So hopefully enjoy
26:53Costa Rica on my behalf as well, please. I will. My question on moving before we sign off here.
26:58Are you someone who unpacks everything immediately? Or are you someone who five years down the road
27:03will still have a box in your closet of Alex's books? I it's funny. I unpack everything immediately.
27:11My wife, however, does not unpack everything immediately. And her kind of philosophy every
27:17time is basically it's kind of like a economic policy of like dumping on the future generations.
27:24I've got boxes of her stuff when she first moved in with me and we were still dating in like 2014
27:29or 15, whatever it was, that should all unpack this later. She has yet to unpack those boxes
27:34and they've come with us to every single place we've lived since we started dating. And I'm not
27:39even sure what's in those boxes. Maybe we'll pass them down to our grandkids one day. Maybe they'll
27:45unpack that box. So you'll always know whose side of the bed is, is, is whose cause my stuff will
27:51be there and her stuff will be like in boxes. My closet's already unpacked. Her closet is not,
27:56but I'll be, that's kind of our moving fight that we have.
28:01Well, that's, you know, it sounds like she also had the right idea. If, if you've moved so many
28:06times and she hasn't had to unpack, who's the fool now, Alec?
28:10It's true. I should just live out of a garbage bag for the rest of my life. Make myself a lot easier.
28:16Absolutely. Well, I hope that she unpacks this summer and I hope you enjoy your new place.
28:23But other than that, that's all I have. I'll talk to you in three weeks, man.
28:27Sounds good, man. Enjoy your time off and we'll be back to talk preseason training camp,
28:30which I'm psyched about. Can't wait until next time, Alec. You have a good one.
28:34See you, buddy. Later, man.
28:53Bye.