7 forgotten Patriots and a Belichickian Celtics championship | Pats Interference - video Dailymotion

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7 forgotten Patriots and a Belichickian Celtics championship | Pats Interference

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00:00:00All right, a quick detour here in the latest Pats Interference podcast recorded midday

00:00:16Thursday about 60 hours of my math is right since the Celtics won the title.

00:00:21I was there, wrote about it.

00:00:23Incredible experience.

00:00:24We might do story time another time on the podcast because right now we have Brian Barrett

00:00:28from the ringer on who I thought was a perfect combination to.

00:00:31We're going to talk Celtics.

00:00:32I'm not going to do story time altogether, but look, there's another championship in

00:00:35Boston.

00:00:36The parade is tomorrow.

00:00:38You are going to see your favorite athletes drunk, drinking, dancing, hugging, and this

00:00:42is what it's all about.

00:00:44So we are.

00:00:45We will dive into the Patriots.

00:00:46We have forgotten Patriots.

00:00:47We're going to highlight today players we think could change the upcoming season.

00:00:50But look, the history of Boston sports just changed on Monday and you watched it.

00:00:54You covered it.

00:00:55You broke it down.

00:00:56You went further than everybody else's into the numbers.

00:00:58And what I want to know, though, Brian, is not just like, hey, Monday was fun Tuesday.

00:01:02We talked about it.

00:01:03Wednesday, we read, wrote, talked more about it Thursday today.

00:01:06What do you appreciate about the Celtics run more than you did in the moment and immediately

00:01:10after just with the perspective of more space and more time?

00:01:13Yeah.

00:01:14And before I get to that, I am interested to see at the parade who is the gronk of the

00:01:18parade or like the Brady in Tampa where Brady was just like inebriated, right?

00:01:23That's who I want to see.

00:01:24Who's the guy that's going to celebrate the championship the most?

00:01:27So I am interested on that.

00:01:28It's going to be right.

00:01:29Well, let's let's let's get your old my old friends at FanDuel, your current friends at

00:01:35FanDuel, not sponsoring the podcast anymore.

00:01:37We're not we're not upset about it.

00:01:39What would your odds be like the top top three guys?

00:01:41KP is number one.

00:01:43I think KP is going to be minus money.

00:01:45Oh, yeah.

00:01:46Minus 110.

00:01:47He was having himself a good time the other day.

00:01:49I thought it was hilarious how small the Miller light bottle can rather looked at his

00:01:54hand.

00:01:55It's like you just realize how bad it's not like he's the only big guy on the team, but

00:01:59he's a legitimate giant.

00:02:01And he just like the thing I loved about Porzingis is he was just so happy all the time being

00:02:06a Celtic.

00:02:07And then he took it to the next level with those.

00:02:09And I know you were in the arena for a bunch of the for both or all three of these.

00:02:13The WWE thing where they're showing him like entering the tunnel.

00:02:16I still don't understand.

00:02:17Why does he come out later than anybody else?

00:02:20Like, how did that just randomly become a thing?

00:02:21Did it just happen that one game he was coming out late?

00:02:23So they showed him like behind, like in the tunnel.

00:02:26So he said, hey, let's just do this for the rest of the series.

00:02:29I have no idea.

00:02:30And for people who haven't been or don't know what we're talking about, you know, the Celtics

00:02:34come out 10, 12 minutes, whatever it is before the game, you go through layup lines, shoot

00:02:38around your inner warmups, national anthem intros, and you go.

00:02:42What Porzingis does is lets everyone go out ahead of him.

00:02:45And I've seen this in game on when he came back in the finals and obviously had that

00:02:47great game and they win.

00:02:49They go out.

00:02:50Couple minutes go by.

00:02:52He's been cleared to play.

00:02:53Everyone knows, but he's still not there.

00:02:55And then he comes out separately.

00:02:56And they had a camera on him that put him walking in the tunnel up on the jumbotron.

00:03:01So you hear this this roar usually reserved for game winning buckets, buzzer beaters before

00:03:06they have.

00:03:07And no, it's just a giant man walking through a hallway, then into the tunnel and then out

00:03:10like you're talking this WWE style.

00:03:12I don't know how it got started.

00:03:13To be frank, my retirement as a Celtics beat writer is coming up tomorrow with the parade.

00:03:18But I loved it.

00:03:20And I wish he would.

00:03:21I hope he did it like against Charlotte on a Monday because the place went nuts.

00:03:25And you know what?

00:03:26If you get your chance, like, sure, take it.

00:03:28And so I will say this.

00:03:29So long as everyone else in the team with it is cool with it, you know, which they all

00:03:32love Porzingis.

00:03:33So that's fine by me because otherwise it's going to look like, you know, an attention

00:03:37bleep.

00:03:38But anyway, that's that's as far as I can tell.

00:03:41Yeah, that was amazing.

00:03:43I really enjoyed that.

00:03:44But in terms of something that's more appreciated, at least for me over the past couple of days,

00:03:49it's Al Horford and not like this whole idea of we heard Tatum say he's his favorite teammate

00:03:54of all time.

00:03:55Joe Missoula recently was on Zach Lowe's podcast and said last year he felt like he let Al

00:04:00down.

00:04:01Right.

00:04:02So we know about like the great leadership and him being this all time great teammate.

00:04:05But to me, I think sort of like an under the radar part about this whole run is like how

00:04:10good Al was.

00:04:11Al was unbelievable.

00:04:13Right.

00:04:14He was just in his 37 year old season.

00:04:15So he played in the finals at 38.

00:04:17He guarded the third most isolation possessions in the entire postseason.

00:04:22And guys shot 16 of 43 against him, 37.2 percent and less than a point per possession, 0.80,

00:04:30which is still really good numbers.

00:04:32Not Al from two years ago, but still really good.

00:04:35He had seven threes in a game against Indiana when they said, hey, we our defense has to

00:04:39be let's let Al shoot.

00:04:41Right.

00:04:42We can't really stop the rest of these guys.

00:04:43And Al made them pay.

00:04:45The Cavs closeout game, he has 22 and 15.

00:04:48And we got so caught up myself at times to being like, oh, this drop coverage and Al

00:04:52getting switched on Donovan Mitchell at first and then Darius Garland like, is this the

00:04:55right strategy?

00:04:56Well, the numbers indicate that it was fine.

00:04:59Like over time, those numbers worked out.

00:05:01And if you look at it with Al on the court in the Cleveland series, there are one hundred

00:05:05and twenty two point four offensive rating, which would have been the best in the league.

00:05:08One of four defensive rating, which would have been the best in the league.

00:05:10They outscored teams by more than 18 points per one hundred or the Cavs with Al off the

00:05:16court.

00:05:17They had a one oh seven point six offensive rating, same as Portland, who ranked twenty

00:05:20nine and their defensive rating would have been the worst in the NBA with him off the

00:05:24court.

00:05:25So you look back and we talk about.

00:05:26And by the way, Cleveland, they outscored the Cavs by fifty eight with Al on the court.

00:05:30They were outscored by twenty two without off the court, I should say, and on the court,

00:05:35they outscored the Cavs by fifty eight minus twenty two off.

00:05:38So he was the only Celtic in the negative when he was off the court.

00:05:42So it just goes to show you like we valued his leadership, being a professional, helping

00:05:47guide these guys.

00:05:49But the reality is he's just still a really, really good basketball player at this age.

00:05:55Like the championship is not over at this point.

00:05:58If you don't have Al Hofer because of the poor Zingas injury, the guy was tremendous.

00:06:02So if you've never listened to off the pike with Brian Barrett on the ringer, that's exactly

00:06:06what you're getting.

00:06:08So if you're hoarding statistics for like two minutes straight, mainlining all of the

00:06:11real info that you need, listen to the podcast, get smarter and hear things you will not hear

00:06:17other places.

00:06:18I will add this, though, because the Horford point is a great one.

00:06:21Not only that, just the Celtics lose arguably their third best, worst fourth best player

00:06:25on their team for virtually entire playoffs, meaning Porzingis.

00:06:28And he steps in and provides better than replacement level play.

00:06:32It's that the Mavs strategy was, of course, find the 38-year-old dude, drag him into the

00:06:37pick and roll, sometimes a double drag, get him isolated on Luka and Kyrie, step back

00:06:42and watch them cook.

00:06:43And at least in game one, because I know Chris Forsberg does a lot of similar tracking numbers.

00:06:47This was Al on Luka Doncic.

00:06:50Luka shot one of eight, 0-4 from three, a block and had two points.

00:06:54The Mavs shot 26% versus Horford overall.

00:06:57He contested a team high 13 shots and had three deflections.

00:07:00So point being, he's still got it.

00:07:04And he did it again.

00:07:05Three, forced a missed shot at the end of game three.

00:07:06All these different things.

00:07:07So I'm glad you brought him up.

00:07:08He's at a Raising Canes also today on Boylston for some reason, he's got some hot chicken.

00:07:12So still the only barbecue chicken he's been around, right?

00:07:15Because it was never hit, never cooked.

00:07:17He cooked on defense.

00:07:19What hasn't been said?

00:07:20I guarantee you, I guarantee he's not eating any of it either.

00:07:22He's too healthy to do that.

00:07:23Yeah.

00:07:24OK.

00:07:25For the people still starving for Patriots content, here's your little mention before

00:07:27we do two Celtics questions and then move on.

00:07:31He connected with Brady and Alex Guerrero, I want to say a few years ago, somebody wrote

00:07:35about this.

00:07:36I wish I could give them credit and remember.

00:07:38But to find out how to sustain, right, to keep his body in shape.

00:07:41So there's a little Patriots for it.

00:07:43What hasn't been said, though?

00:07:44Post-finals coverage.

00:07:45Because there's always a lot of receipt dangling and pulling them out on the social team for

00:07:49whatever team wins.

00:07:50The whole thing does this, you know, cut up of everyone who doubted us, yada, yada.

00:07:54And for some reason, there were people that doubted a 64-win basketball team with five

00:07:58All-Stars, one-time All-Stars in the starting lineup.

00:08:01But aside from that stuff, what hasn't been said?

00:08:03Yeah.

00:08:04With the fourth best net rating of all time behind two Jordan Bulls teams and the first

00:08:09Katie Steff team, which wasn't even a real team.

00:08:12There was a loophole in the CBA that allowed Duran to sign there.

00:08:14But anyway, I think the one thing that hasn't been said is everybody gives Brad Stevens

00:08:20a ton of credit for the roster and deservingly so.

00:08:23But I think you also have to acknowledge with Stevens and it's not just him in the front

00:08:26office, right?

00:08:27Austin Age, Dave Lewin, Mike Zierin, like all these guys that did an outstanding job.

00:08:31It's a small front office, but it's an outstanding one.

00:08:35Is to do the cross for comparison now that we're going to be talking Pats is Brad is

00:08:41sort of Belichickian with how he handled last offseason.

00:08:45Think about who he traded.

00:08:47First of all, Robert Williams, to a lesser extent, is a beloved Celtic.

00:08:51Everybody loves Rob.

00:08:52Like I know he's heard a lot, but Rob was one of the main reasons their defense was

00:08:57so good in 2022.

00:08:58And he had like the fifth best plus minus in an NBA finals that his team lost.

00:09:01I mean, the guy was incredible during that finals coming back from the injury.

00:09:05But also Marcus Smart, right, who has been here, was the longest tenured member of the

00:09:10organization.

00:09:11And obviously, like it looks easy, right, where it's like, oh, yeah, well, it's true

00:09:15holiday.

00:09:16Well, it's Kristaps Porzingis.

00:09:17But remember, they didn't have Drew like Drew wasn't traded until after Marcus was sent

00:09:22away.

00:09:23Right.

00:09:24So they got through after that.

00:09:25They didn't need to get KP because they felt like, hey, we need to change how we're playing

00:09:29late in these games offensively.

00:09:31Everybody's switching against us.

00:09:32We need a guy that they can't switch off like we saw it in the first game against Miami

00:09:35this year.

00:09:36It's like, well, they can't switch up seven foot three Kristaps because then you're going

00:09:40to put a small guy and he's just going to shoot over him.

00:09:42Right.

00:09:43And for Brad to do that to a guy that he coached, think about this, Kelly, and he coached Marcus

00:09:47Smart his entire career until he decided to go into the front office.

00:09:51I think back to whoever it you can go through a bunch of examples, right.

00:09:55The lawyer Malloy's of the world, the Richard Seymour's of the world.

00:09:58We felt like Bill felt, hey, whether it's money wise, whether it's just on the field

00:10:03stuff.

00:10:04I mean, Logan Mankins doesn't have a Super Bowl ring and he's traded before the 14th

00:10:08season.

00:10:09Right.

00:10:10And Brad willing to like with Danny Ainge on it.

00:10:12I don't know.

00:10:13Danny Ainge is a great GM.

00:10:14I don't know if he would have made that move for Porzingis trading away Marcus Smart.

00:10:18So I think that is sort of an underrated part of Brad is that he's an unbelievable competitor.

00:10:24Right.

00:10:25We talked about this nice guy from Indiana, but that is ruthless.

00:10:28Right.

00:10:29And obviously he did it for the right reasons.

00:10:31But I got to give Brad a ton of credit just for I think it's underrated.

00:10:34Like what a great competitor he is.

00:10:37I think it's exceptionally well put.

00:10:39And I would add this, you know, there's Brad hasn't made a first round pick yet.

00:10:44Like he knows what he wants and it's easy to take the first round picks.

00:10:47I will draft and develop.

00:10:48I know the college game and I obviously coach and what it takes to development because that's

00:10:52what his teams were built on.

00:10:53Right.

00:10:54And he's been coaching with the Celtics.

00:10:55He's doing this without, you know, aside from a star player and obviously they have a couple

00:11:00of the most valuable asset generally in sports, rookie, you know, cost control, rookie contracts,

00:11:05you hit on these picks, you get immediate value for however long.

00:11:08Obviously the Celtics are a mature team now.

00:11:10They don't need those picks, but he's done it in a way that they haven't completely sacrificed

00:11:14their future.

00:11:15Anyway, I will just add this.

00:11:17Luca got his numbers, but the defense that Sam Houser played and the numbers are not

00:11:22good.

00:11:24And don't snort them as we just did with Brian a minute ago.

00:11:27Like they're not good, but he is in position every, but the seventh man that you need in

00:11:31a series like that and was legit switching onto bigger guys onto Luca in the right place

00:11:36for right time.

00:11:37It's just, he's a superstar.

00:11:38He's going to make it.

00:11:39But Sam Houser made enough shots at the other end, including this no dip three caught at

00:11:43his face and then flung like a volleyball set from the corner into the basket in game

00:11:48one.

00:11:49That dude's legit.

00:11:50He's an undrafted unwanted rookie as good as the Celtics have been signing stars.

00:11:54They're still able to mine and develop some talent.

00:11:56And Sam Houser again, does not deserve a whole separate story or piece about it, but was

00:12:01just rock solid in a way that they needed him.

00:12:04So Andy chose the Celtics over Miami.

00:12:06Yes.

00:12:07Yes.

00:12:08Where the Celtics are now flying back from after partying, partying in the face of every

00:12:11heat fan who might be down in South Beach and live or whatever club that they're at.

00:12:16And that's it.

00:12:17Okay.

00:12:18Last thing.

00:12:19Go ahead, Austin.

00:12:21So in your question, you had two to three years, four to five years.

00:12:24I think it's the longer, the four to five year window, because Tatum next year will

00:12:28be his 26 year old season.

00:12:30Jalen, it'll be his 28 year old season.

00:12:32Derek White still prime entering his 30 year old season.

00:12:35He's going to get extended.

00:12:36So those are your top three players for the future.

00:12:39Obviously we can argue now, Drew and poor Zingas, both those guys are extended as well.

00:12:44And so you have a top five player in Tatum.

00:12:46You have a top 15 player in Jalen Brown.

00:12:49The new ringer rankings are out.

00:12:50Jalen Brown hops into number 15 after being in the mid twenties before the post season.

00:12:56And I would argue Derek White's a top 30 player with all that he does for this team.

00:12:59Plus Drew and Drew, at least for two more years, I think it's going to be at a pretty,

00:13:04pretty high level.

00:13:05And then I think about the Bruins.

00:13:07They need more scoring.

00:13:08They need better, younger players, right?

00:13:10Like I love Mason Laurie, but I'm talking about the scoring.

00:13:13We saw the difference between them and a team like the Panthers who's playing for the cup

00:13:17right now.

00:13:18The Sox.

00:13:19There's a lot in the pipeline in terms of their prospects, but I don't know how much

00:13:23longer Cor and Bailey are going to be here.

00:13:25And the only reason I say that is because Cor is a free agent after the season.

00:13:28And I think I don't trust ownership to get it correct in terms of this thing going forward.

00:13:33They're not the same ownership group that won four World Series.

00:13:35I mean, they are by name, but they don't act the same way they used to.

00:13:38And then with the Patriots, I feel like this is awesome that they now have Drake May, but

00:13:44still questions.

00:13:45And I'm sure we'll get into some of them with the roster and we'll see how quickly they

00:13:49can put a legitimate contender around May.

00:13:51And that's assuming that May turns into the guy that we all hope he turns into.

00:13:56The one thing I will say is like, I'm just, I'm so happy to have Drake May because I can't

00:14:00believe the Daniels thing.

00:14:02I just, the more and more I think about it, I can't believe that Daniels went over May.

00:14:06And I know we talked about it a lot, like throughout the whole draft process, but you

00:14:09know what I compare it to is like, okay, Jason Tatum going third to the Celtics after the

00:14:14trade where it's okay.

00:14:15You can see the prototype, right?

00:14:16Six, eight, six, nine, six foot 10 wing can lead your team and be the best player on a

00:14:21championship team, which, oh, by the way, he just did, but the LeBron's of the world,

00:14:25not comparing him, but Durant, right?

00:14:26Kawhi Leonard, that prototype.

00:14:29And I look at Drake May, I'm not comparing the players, but Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen,

00:14:34Herbert, these, these big athletic guys, you know what I mean?

00:14:36With the huge arms that can throw on the run.

00:14:38And I think about Daniels and I'm like, there's only one comparison, right?

00:14:42It's Lamar.

00:14:44It basically has to be Lamar for him to be great.

00:14:46I think about sort of like Lonzo going before Tatum.

00:14:50There's only at the time when Lonzo was coming out, he couldn't shoot.

00:14:53He improved obviously, but there's one example of like a point guard that couldn't shoot.

00:14:57That was the best player on a team that made it to the NBA finals in recent NBA history.

00:15:01And that was Jason Kidd.

00:15:02Like, so it just felt like the May pick made way more sense to me, but anyway, I can, I'm

00:15:07on a complete digression after going through the teams, but I'll say at least five years

00:15:11based on the age of Tatum, Brown and white.

00:15:14So first of all, I agree with you.

00:15:17I think it'll be longer than three years, and then you might have some very, very small

00:15:21margins, right?

00:15:22But you think about a 64 win team, you set a fourth best point differential in NBA history.

00:15:26Now you've got another year together.

00:15:28Obviously Al will probably retire next year, maybe the year after you're going to need

00:15:31to deepen out that bench.

00:15:32They're going straight into, you know, luxury tax hell, second apron stuff, no detours,

00:15:39easy pass straight down there.

00:15:40They'll figure it out, which also shout out Wick Grousback for spending money, committing

00:15:43to it.

00:15:44And look, they're not actually getting paid in parades.

00:15:46This is an asset that does not depreciate.

00:15:48The NBA just got a new TV deal.

00:15:49He's doing fine financially, but there are other owners, as we know, not as willing to

00:15:54spend money in New England.

00:15:55And we'll leave that there.

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00:17:22On the Patriots.

00:17:23Look, I think there is a pathway and maybe three to four years where they do get back

00:17:27on track.

00:17:28You're talking about them as Super Bowl sleeper contender, but what it will take between now

00:17:31and then are players like we're about to discuss.

00:17:34We have four forgotten Patriots, and this is to steal from my guy, your guy, my colleague

00:17:38Doug Codd, who used to do the series in Nesson right after the season.

00:17:41Hey, don't forget about these players in the roster.

00:17:44But these players have to just come out of nowhere and exceed expectations.

00:17:47And they could be under after they could be seventh round picks.

00:17:49They could be trades.

00:17:50But the point here is, as far as our criteria goes, this upcoming season, they could swing

00:17:55a game or two, which in turn could swing the season, because those are the stakes, really,

00:18:01and you're projected to win four or five games as the Patriots are in virtually every

00:18:05sports book.

00:18:06Now, the rules are can't be a quarterback, can't be a receiver, can't be Matt Judon,

00:18:11Christian Gonzalez, Christian Barmore, any other top defender, because these people are

00:18:15not forgotten.

00:18:17Everyone else on this kind of roster, go nuts.

00:18:20So your top forgotten Patriot who could swing a game or two, maybe two or three, and therefore

00:18:25the season is who?

00:18:27OK, so before I start, I want to say I didn't include Ramondre in this because I figured

00:18:31he was part of that top tier group.

00:18:34OK.

00:18:35All right.

00:18:36So number one on my list, Josh Uche.

00:18:37So if you go to last season, the Patriots were 27th in sacks with 36, tied for third

00:18:43two years ago at 54.

00:18:45So who was missing last year?

00:18:47Matthew Judon.

00:18:48So the numbers went from 11 and a half sacks down to three for Uche.

00:18:51But you look at it.

00:18:52So two years ago, he's 10th in pass rush win rate, PFF start, stat rather.

00:18:57He was at 84th last year.

00:18:59If you look at just pass rush grade from PFF, not saying it's to be all end all, but

00:19:03he went from 11th to 68th.

00:19:06OK, so clearly he was helped out by Matthew Judon being on the other side and getting

00:19:11a lot of the attention.

00:19:12Right.

00:19:13So I think I thought about putting Keon White in here and I know he had this great offseason

00:19:17and I still love that Keon White pick because Callahan, I think that, I mean, he switched

00:19:22over positions at the collegiate level.

00:19:24Right.

00:19:25So he's still new to that position.

00:19:26He just went with Uche because I've seen it before and he's playing for another contract.

00:19:30I'm still surprised that they got him at the number they did, although I got to imagine

00:19:34there wasn't a huge sort of market for him based on he's really a one trick pony in terms

00:19:38of being a pass rusher.

00:19:39He's not going to be great against the run.

00:19:41And a lot of this is going to be dictated about situational, right?

00:19:45Like how many times are the Patriots going to have the opponent in an obvious pass rushing

00:19:48situation based on some of the issues they may have offensively?

00:19:52But I think Uche could have a bounce back here.

00:19:54Like is it crazy to say that Uche could get back to having, I don't know, what if it's

00:19:58an eight or a nine sack season that could change a game at the end if you have a lead

00:20:01and you have Judon and Uche on the field together, he could come up with a couple of clutch,

00:20:06not even just like some hurries or just a situation where he forces the quarterback

00:20:10to maybe throw an interception because he's pressured.

00:20:13So I think Uche is a guy that could help this where I really like the defense to begin with,

00:20:17but I think he's a guy that could factor in a major right now that Judon's back.

00:20:21Yeah.

00:20:22I think it's a fair pick.

00:20:23I think because he came up in the system, had that great 2022 season statistically,

00:20:27right?

00:20:28Like if you really go through it, he cleaned up against O-line corpses of Arizona, the

00:20:34Colts and inflated that total a little bit, but even his per snap numbers, you know, ESPN

00:20:38pass rush win rate, PFF stuff, watching with your eye test, like he's, he's got to get

00:20:43off that you can't teach.

00:20:44And more often than not, relative to the other edge rushers, he's, he's productive.

00:20:49That dip last year, Judon definitely a part of it.

00:20:51I am curious how differently they might utilize him now with Marcus Covington as a defensive

00:20:55coordinator.

00:20:56Does it mean better or worse, but he's a guy Covington who's worked hands-on with Uche

00:21:01as did, you know, Steve Belichick now is gone.

00:21:03But that pass rush group was very close together.

00:21:06So maybe there were things that Covington said, Hey, I want to do it this way.

00:21:09Let's have him loop more in the inside.

00:21:11Let's have him hover over the a gap and bounce back up because he's athletic enough to play

00:21:14in space.

00:21:16So I, I think people remember him.

00:21:19The part they forget though, is the contract, which you mentioned one year at 3 million.

00:21:23So if Uche does have a year, like 2022, that's a type of value that you're squeezing out,

00:21:29right?

00:21:30Your performance over your expectation for his expectation of 3 million bucks, that dude

00:21:35could be a healthy scratch a couple of times and still play well enough or produce enough

00:21:40to validate that contract.

00:21:43I went, let's do with defense, staying in the defensive line, Armand Watts, who signed

00:21:48a similar contract journeyman defensive tackle last year with Pittsburgh before that Minnesota.

00:21:53He is 300 pounder, six foot five solid unspectacular, but last year at a pressure rate of 10.7%,

00:22:00which is very, very, very good.

00:22:02He's played similarly in a system as far as bouncing around the defensive line, you know,

00:22:08one technique to a three, sometimes kicked out to a five, basically shading over the

00:22:11center shading over the guard, straight up on the defense of the offensive tackle.

00:22:15And his best season though, came three years ago in Minnesota when he had 33 pressures,

00:22:21five sacks and six QB hits and you go, okay, what happened that season?

00:22:24And I asked him this straight up after he signed, he goes, well, it's pretty easy when

00:22:27you've got like Daniel Hunter and two other dudes that everyone else is really worried

00:22:31about Minnesota.

00:22:32Cause then I can just eat one-on-one.

00:22:33Well, when I look at this defensive line now around Armand Watts, who, if, if he makes

00:22:38a team, we'll probably pay 30 to 40% of the snaps, uh, Matthew Dunn is getting attention.

00:22:43Christian Barmore is getting extra attention.

00:22:44Josh Uche, we assume is going to get a little extra attention that leaves a lot of room

00:22:49for Armand Watts who can play across the line.

00:22:52And you're going to need someone like that to make six to eight plays a year that not

00:22:56only just, you know, validate the contract, but round out a pass rush where you've got

00:23:0110 pole players.

00:23:02And then you need someone to kind of fire through there to get that sack on third down

00:23:06against a team that can stop your best, but you need to win the one-on-ones elsewhere

00:23:10to really make a difference and pull off an upset somewhere in the season.

00:23:13Yeah.

00:23:14And it's interesting too, because it's kind of like the same theme as me, like the guy's

00:23:18getting extra attention, right?

00:23:19When I talked about Judon, but with Barmore in there as well, I just, I think Barmore

00:23:24may be their best defensive player, right?

00:23:26So he's going to get a lot of attention as well.

00:23:28Like if, if you had to predict like after the 2024 season, who would you think is their

00:23:32best defensive player?

00:23:33Gonzalez, Barmore, Judon's getting a little bit, at least slightly long in the tooth.

00:23:38I could easily see it being Barmore.

00:23:40It's a great question.

00:23:41You know what I think?

00:23:42And it's hard to say, right?

00:23:43You know, Barmore's about to turn 25.

00:23:45The dude can still not rent a car in some States and he is the second highest paid Patriot

00:23:51franchise history, but probably bought a nice one though.

00:23:54Yeah.

00:23:55Put it behind a Hyundai Sonata.

00:23:56And if it's not his, he might have some trouble.

00:23:58Look, I, I would, I would, this cuts against things I've said all off season, which is,

00:24:03I just want to see Christian Gonzalez play a fifth game.

00:24:06I just think it's going to be him.

00:24:08And it's partly Judon four-time pro bowler deserves all the respect, the money and the

00:24:12adoration that he gets.

00:24:14But just being 32 going on 33 Barmore, I think had a really good talk about eating against

00:24:19bad offensive lines and he got double teamed a lot and sometimes anchored well and held

00:24:22up against it.

00:24:23The Buffalo road games are really good example of that Gonzalez though, could just do everything

00:24:28on his own, right?

00:24:30Eliminate a receiver at his best because we saw how often does he get there?

00:24:33I don't know, but I think that sample was strong enough where I would, I would lean

00:24:37towards Gonzalez.

00:24:38Who would you want it to be though?

00:24:39You know, if you got to make this pick yourself, like this, all those three or somebody else

00:24:43is the best defender in this defense, who would you want it to be knowing what it would

00:24:46mean for the rest of the unit?

00:24:48Well, for selfish purposes, Barmore, because I think he's just very entertaining.

00:24:52Like whenever he talks to media, but for football reasons, I think Gonzalez, right?

00:24:57Because you think about this division and all the risks in just the AFC in general,

00:25:00if you legitimately have say, hypothetically, I don't think it's out of the question to

00:25:04say at the end of the season, we're saying Gonzalez is a top five corner in the league.

00:25:08I mean, that's so important to have that type of guy.

00:25:10I mean, what type of defense at this point in 2024 doesn't have a top tier corner, right?

00:25:15You kind of need that position and it just allows you to do so many different things

00:25:18as we saw when Belichick always had, whether it be Ty Law, my favorite was the rentee or

00:25:23Daryl Rivas, which was awesome, right?

00:25:25And Stefan Gilmore, like it just allows you to do so many different things.

00:25:28All right.

00:25:29I'm going to go quickly with my second of four.

00:25:32Do you have Marco Wilson on your list?

00:25:33I don't.

00:25:34Okay.

00:25:35Forgotten, forgotten Patriot here.

00:25:37He played one game for the Patriots last year, claimed off waivers in December from Arizona.

00:25:42He wears the number 22.

00:25:43That's basically it.

00:25:44If you've been watching, paying really, really close attention to Marco Wilson, when you

00:25:48go deeper and he's part of this young corner group that I've said the last couple of weeks

00:25:52now, I think might be better than I've been giving them credit for it.

00:25:55We talk about Gonzalez, Jonathan Jones is hanging around, Marcus Jones is going to come

00:25:58back from injury and then, well, not only is it just Alex Austin, Marco Wilson was a

00:26:04fourth round pick at a 2021 that year as a rookie out of Florida for the Cardinals,

00:26:08two force fumbles.

00:26:10The next year makes the year to lead three picks, 10 pass breakups and another force

00:26:15fumble.

00:26:16New coach comes in new defensive system.

00:26:18Okay.

00:26:19He knows dives statistically and probably on tape too, because the Cardinals who look had

00:26:25reason to tank, but didn't really just cut them, wash their hands.

00:26:28And so the six foot 190 pound corner who played outside and inside in college gets scooped

00:26:33up by the Patriots and plays one game and is having pass breakups in the spring.

00:26:36So again, I, he's not a guy that I would say pencil them in or starting at any point this

00:26:42year, but is a guy that you're forgetting about plays a premium position still young

00:26:46enough.

00:26:47He's only 25 and make an impact where everyone was enthralled with Alex Austin last year

00:26:50before anyone knew who Alex Austin was.

00:26:52And now here comes the guy that I think is being somehow overshadowed by another seventh

00:26:57round pick from last year, who's got the traits, the pedigree and some statistical production

00:27:02that would indicate he can get back to that level in the right system with a little bit

00:27:06more time.

00:27:07Gotcha.

00:27:08Yeah.

00:27:09Well, I guess like, I, I don't think my cuts are deep enough.

00:27:11Cause I kind of went for like guys that weren't stars on the team.

00:27:15I mean, so that's, that's a deeper cut than, than any of my cuts.

00:27:19So you want me to give you my next guy?

00:27:21Yep.

00:27:22So my next guy is somebody, they signed him free agency, Antonio Gibson, just because

00:27:25he's the reason I picked him is because the Patriots really, they haven't had a James

00:27:31White type since, I don't know, James White, none of these other guys have worked, right?

00:27:35Whether it be Montgomery, whoever they've tried to fill that position, at least hypothetically,

00:27:39none of the guys have worked.

00:27:40And I go back to 2022, I remember at the time you wrote about it, how Ramondre was basically

00:27:45worn down at the end of the 2022 season, right?

00:27:48So I look at Gibson and I know there's fumbling issues there, but you look at him last season,

00:27:5357 targets, the 16th most among running backs.

00:27:56And in this offense with Van Pelt, Ford last year, Jerome Ford, 14th, most targets and

00:28:02Gibson was 14th in the act per reception among running backs.

00:28:05And then a sneaky thing about him is he's really good after contact 3.51 yards after

00:28:09contact, which was the fifth best margin in the NFL.

00:28:13So just the fact that you can keep Ramondre Stevenson healthy towards the end of the season,

00:28:18and maybe he can help you out in the passing game where we know this team's going to have

00:28:22issues as it pertains to the offensive line.

00:28:24At least it appears on paper, unless something changes in the off season or somebody just

00:28:28gets way better and actually knows how to play left tackle by the time the season starts

00:28:32and having that outlet at the running back position could be impactful for this team.

00:28:36So I think it's twofold, not just helping out the quarterback, but also helping out

00:28:40Ramondre Stevenson.

00:28:41So we don't look at the end of 2024 the way we did at the end of 2022.

00:28:48Gibson's a great call, not just because of the position that he plays, what he can do

00:28:51for Stevenson, but for a guy who's your, I don't know, second best outside free agent

00:28:56that they signed.

00:28:57We've hardly talked about him or talked about him since.

00:29:00And the contract reflects someone who, you know, it's true.

00:29:03All the things you just said, a good pass protector can handle the ball.

00:29:08Big dude after contact is strong, but as a fatal flaw, this is like dating someone who

00:29:13is the worst driver you've ever known and has gotten into in the last year for car accidents.

00:29:17So you're saying, okay, you can't drive us to the beach, but if you need to drop me off

00:29:22at the post office or drop something off, we can do that.

00:29:24All right.

00:29:25Little spurts for you because the Gibson has a fumbling problem and that's, that's really

00:29:29what this comes down to.

00:29:30I think he probably would have resigned in Washington if he was still the 1000 yard back

00:29:33that we saw either a rookie or a year or two, but the guy fumbles and that's an issue and

00:29:37you can work it and try to coach it.

00:29:38I would say though, if you do let him just drive to the post office, the grocery store,

00:29:43not any drives longer than 30 minutes or over 150 carries.

00:29:46Very effective player, complimentary player.

00:29:49He's a rare pass catching power back.

00:29:51You can trust that the goal line or on third down and flex out because as everyone, you

00:29:55know, we were writing at the time he was a receiver in college and Memphis.

00:29:59And that was part of the issue with his projection in the NFL is he's going to stick with receivers,

00:30:02he's going to be running back.

00:30:03He's a running back.

00:30:04He's big, he's physical.

00:30:05And the last thing I'll say is this, his fit within the new scheme is perfect.

00:30:11He is a one cut zone runner and I wrote about him a couple of weeks after he signed.

00:30:15Those are his best runs on tape.

00:30:17When you go to PFF and separate the man block runs and zone block runs, he's a one cut and

00:30:21go kind of guy.

00:30:22And that's, that's what he's got.

00:30:23He doesn't have breakaway speed, even though it was 40, I think it was in the four fours.

00:30:27That's what the Patriots are going to run.

00:30:28It's going to help him Andre.

00:30:29It's going to help Gibson.

00:30:30If the man can just abide by the rules of the road and hold on to the football, he's

00:30:37going to talk to TK, Tiki Barber.

00:30:39Remember Tiki had those problems early on in his, and he started holding the ball like

00:30:42really weird.

00:30:43It was like, you know, high and tight, but it was like all the way up there.

00:30:46It's like choking himself with the football.

00:30:48Yeah.

00:30:49Yeah.

00:30:50Yeah.

00:30:51Maybe, maybe I'll have a conversation with Tiki Barber.

00:30:53All right.

00:30:54Third on your list.

00:30:55Okay.

00:30:56So these names are probably a little bit too big, but the reason I mentioned Hunter Henry,

00:31:00just because they gave him a contract where I felt like, okay, maybe that's a little bit

00:31:04rich.

00:31:05But I think about the fact that I'm not comparing the players in Joku last year had 882.

00:31:10Yards.

00:31:11Second on the Browns.

00:31:12He was second.

00:31:13Most targets, most receptions, totally different players.

00:31:14And Joku was tied for first in YAC per reception among tight ends.

00:31:18Hunter Henry was last in YAC per reception among tight ends.

00:31:21And I know they brought in Hooper too, but as recently as 2021, this guy had nine touchdowns,

00:31:26which was tied for first among tight ends.

00:31:28And when targeted, the passer rating was fifth and we know he's not a blocker.

00:31:33So I have to imagine that the Patriots, when they decided to bring them back because they

00:31:38didn't have to give them the extension, right?

00:31:40They didn't have to do that.

00:31:41I have to imagine they have plans for him in the offense.

00:31:44And I think about going back to how much he helped Mac Jones eventually when Drake May

00:31:50takes over as the starting quarterback of this team, whenever that is, I know we're

00:31:53going to get into that in a little bit, that having a tight end that I think Hunter Henry

00:31:57is basically a solid, solid player.

00:32:00He's not a great player.

00:32:01He's not an unbelievable athlete, but he's a solid player.

00:32:04And I feel like the past couple of years, like his performance hasn't been based on

00:32:08his own ability.

00:32:09I feel like it's been based on some of the issues they've had with the offensive play

00:32:14calling with the offensive coaching staff in general.

00:32:16I mean, we think back to the Patricia year.

00:32:19So I think he's been hurt more.

00:32:20So like most players are dependent on the scheme and the players around them.

00:32:24Right.

00:32:25And that's sort of who Hunter Henry is.

00:32:26But I think if you have a decent scheme, which I think the Patriots are going to have that,

00:32:30obviously there's some questions up front, but I think he can still be a solid player.

00:32:34It's not like the guy's 35 or 36 years old or he's old.

00:32:37I mean, he's still in his, I mean, I guess a little bit post prime, but based on the

00:32:42position he plays, like I think he's still be a very productive player for this team.

00:32:46And I think he can really help you on quarterback.

00:32:49All solid points.

00:32:50I would add this.

00:32:51I think if you gave Hunter Henry truth serum, he would elaborate on the points you just

00:32:56made about the offense, holding him back.

00:32:58And now he is someone who was a captain last year who on the record, and even speaking

00:33:02to me off the record, always accountable, responsible team, first guy.

00:33:08But they asked him to pass protect so much in 22 with the map Patricia, Joe judge, just

00:33:12offensive coordinators, spectacular that it depresses numbers, career worst numbers for

00:33:18him.

00:33:19The first two weeks of last year, when Mac is still the version of Mac Jones that inspired

00:33:22hope for most of two years, his, he scored touchdowns, right?

00:33:28Back into Eagles against the Dolphins Mac falls apart.

00:33:31So does the offensive production.

00:33:33And obviously his numbers go down, but even the last game he played, I think he got hurt

00:33:36against Kansas city in December.

00:33:38You know, he had like seven, eight catches in that game with Bailey's app.

00:33:41So he is a serviceable above average tight end.

00:33:45And he does get lost in the shuffle a little bit.

00:33:46I omitted him from my list because I think he is going to score touchdowns like he was

00:33:51wins over the middle of the field.

00:33:52But I would say this, he could be as close to a single person, barometer, a human barometer

00:33:58for the rest of this offense as anyone outside the quarterback position that we have, right?

00:34:03If he's getting the ball and scoring touchdowns, that means they're winning the middle of the

00:34:06field and they're completing drives.

00:34:08That's going to be the difference between them winning three or four games and surprising

00:34:12with six or seven.

00:34:13Okay.

00:34:14So we still have three months left until football, right?

00:34:17Right.

00:34:18So we still have to wait three months to go to a big game, right?

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00:35:48Yeah, I'm with you.

00:35:50So I hope that we get to the point where that's the case, because that means that Drake May

00:35:54is probably playing really well at that particular point in time, if Hunter Henry's putting up

00:35:59numbers and he's making things happen over the middle of the field.

00:36:01So I liked that.

00:36:02I really did like the signing when they made it back in 2021.

00:36:06I will say this, though.

00:36:07I also liked the Johnnie Smith signing at the time.

00:36:09So I was one for two there.

00:36:13Yeah.

00:36:14The last one is a rookie, which again, this is kind of splitting the difference between

00:36:17Forgotten and just I know about him, but I don't really care about him.

00:36:20Leighton Robinson, fourth round rookie guard at a Texas A&M, he had problems with penalties

00:36:25in college, better run blocker, stats PFF not particularly kind to him, particularly

00:36:29in pass protection.

00:36:31But my thing is this, in the same point you made about Gibson impacting Stevenson, if

00:36:36he can start at right guard and rookie tackles typically have a much more difficult time

00:36:39than rookie guards.

00:36:41If he can start at right guard that lets Mike on when you stay at right tackle, one of your

00:36:46best players at a premium position, often one on one, stopping edge rushers from getting

00:36:52into the quarterback.

00:36:53If they don't feel good about Leighton Robinson or anyone else, Nick Leverett, who might start

00:36:57a right guard, then they'll move Mike on when to win there and ask Hayden Wallace, who everyone

00:37:03listening this podcast for me anywhere has gone.

00:37:05I'm a little skeptical of this career right tackle moving over to left tackle and okay,

00:37:10right tackle for Kate Wallace is better, but again, the history of rookies at either tackle

00:37:14position, even if you've been there for four years as he was at Penn state, not great.

00:37:19And so I would prefer to keep my best players at a premium position, but Mike on one who's

00:37:23staying at right tackle because he moved around in OTAs and a mini camp is contingent on someone

00:37:29filling his old spot at right guard.

00:37:32And I think the way the place that they drafted him said Leighton Robinson could be that guy

00:37:35but we just, we have to wait and see.

00:37:37He has to step up or Nick Leverett does, because it looks like city sounds going to stay a

00:37:41left guard.

00:37:42So a lot of questions, man, with this offensive line and a lot of guys switching positions,

00:37:47which I don't, I don't know if that's the best thing when you're getting ready.

00:37:51When you just drafted a quarterback with the third overall selection, I feel like I like

00:37:55a ton of the stuff that Elliot Wolfe did.

00:37:57I actually really applauded him for saying, you know what, we have a good defense.

00:38:00We don't have to draft many defensive players.

00:38:02So they only drafted one.

00:38:03Like I give them a lot of credit for that.

00:38:05I really liked that strategy, but, and look, he put a lot of resources into the receiver

00:38:10position, even though they didn't get them.

00:38:12They went after what they deemed a top tier receiver.

00:38:15I think that the Ridley situation is actually going to be good for them in the long run,

00:38:18because I don't think he's legitimate bonafide number one guy, but at least he drafted two

00:38:22guys in the first four rounds.

00:38:26When we're talking about the receiver position, it's just, it's kind of crazy that they didn't

00:38:30even go after one of these veterans that's unsigned now.

00:38:33Maybe they'll do it by the time training camp rolls around, but it's still crazy to

00:38:36me that as much as they've over, or at least improve the roster theoretically on paper,

00:38:43kind of a really important thing is the offensive line.

00:38:45And there's just so many questions with that group.

00:38:47Yeah.

00:38:48Not good.

00:38:49All right.

00:38:50Who's the last player in your forgotten Patriots list?

00:38:51My final one.

00:38:52So maybe this is too big of a name, but Jabril Peppers.

00:38:56The reason I said that is just because, first of all, I just wanted an excuse to talk about

00:39:00Peppers, but secondarily, like all this about Duggar in the off season, is he going to get

00:39:03a contract?

00:39:04He had to tag at first, but you know that last year, I know you do, but Peppers ranked

00:39:09as PFS fifth best safety.

00:39:11He was 10th in terms of his coverage grade.

00:39:13And I think people forget like how great this guy was as a collegiate player where he came

00:39:17out and he's 94th percentile in the broad and 96 in the 40.

00:39:22He was up for the Heisman trophy and he just didn't have a great start to his career.

00:39:27And of course then he has the injury.

00:39:29I mean, he was in the Saquon Barkley trade, which kind of tells you what type of dynamic

00:39:33player he was.

00:39:34And I think about the OBJ trade, although it's sorry, yes, Odell Beckham, Jr.

00:39:40That's what I meant.

00:39:41But you just think about what he did last year.

00:39:44He had his best NFL season and you usually don't have that type of season at that age,

00:39:49right?

00:39:50You're sort of already established as an NFL player.

00:39:52And I give the Belichick's and of course, Gerard Mayo and company a lot of credit for

00:39:57unlocking him.

00:39:58And I know you've talked about this before, like sort of like the positionless stuff.

00:40:02I think that's where he factors in.

00:40:03I mean, this guy plays all over the place and he's a missile.

00:40:06I just love watching the guy play.

00:40:08And I think, you know, everybody loves Duggar around here.

00:40:10I think Duggar is a little bit older than people anticipate based on when he was drafted.

00:40:14He was in college for a long time.

00:40:16But I think that and I know that Duggar was asked to do different things.

00:40:20Peppers was the superior player last year.

00:40:22So I think we could see another huge pepper season.

00:40:26I think we could.

00:40:27I would be surprised if he surpasses what he did last year.

00:40:30It doesn't mean he can't get close, produce the same numbers.

00:40:33But to put into context that the coverage grade, you know, Jabril Peppers is not locking

00:40:37down opposing number one receivers.

00:40:38He's not even lying down.

00:40:40And that doesn't mean he's a bad player.

00:40:43It's just contextualizing.

00:40:44Okay.

00:40:45Is he really the 10th best coverage safety in the league?

00:40:46No.

00:40:47But what he did do was thrive within the assignments that the Patriots gave him.

00:40:50And when you contrast how he was used in Cleveland, you talk about that slow start, late first

00:40:54round pick in Cleveland, not only just not winning any games, which is not an environment

00:40:58conducive to rookie development.

00:41:00He's playing free safety and Greg Williams system where you don't even see him on the

00:41:04all 22 tape that all brought to remember had the free safety 30 yards deep.

00:41:10This is all 21.

00:41:11And where's the other guy kind of film.

00:41:14So that's a position where, look, it's hard to play safety period, but let alone when

00:41:18you're someone better suited to be closer to the box, maybe covering running backs playing

00:41:21a little bit more zone.

00:41:23That's what he did last year.

00:41:25I'm sure they'll continue with that.

00:41:26He'll be a really, really good player and they need him.

00:41:27And that's another example of, again, you want to be a different team, exceed expectations.

00:41:32Players like him on, I would say a modest contract extension.

00:41:35He's in a contract year again, but got an extension two years ago or resign, whatever

00:41:39it was just providing more value than you would expect for the contract.

00:41:43Yeah.

00:41:44Well, it's a good point to you on the coverage grade because it's like, okay, he's in a good

00:41:48place for him, right?

00:41:49Where he's not, you're not asking him to do too much.

00:41:52He's not overtaxed.

00:41:53I would never compare these players because one of them is a two-time champion and six-time

00:41:57all defensive player, but drew holiday, like in Milwaukee last year, he's overtaxed, right?

00:42:02It's the number two option.

00:42:03He comes here.

00:42:04He's like the fourth fish, fifth option.

00:42:05I know that's not an apples to apples comparison, but doing more of what he's great at when

00:42:10we're talking about peppers and doing less of what he's not as good at is sort of, and

00:42:15I know we're talking about a Patriots team that didn't win many games last year, but

00:42:18the defense was not the problem.

00:42:20He gets to play with all these really good defensive players.

00:42:22So I think it's sort of highlights his skills where I thought this is a great addition to

00:42:26the team.

00:42:27And I think that he'll take, I think maybe, maybe to your point, he's not as good as he

00:42:31was last year in terms of the numbers, but I think he's still going to be a really impactful

00:42:34player on this team.

00:42:35And we'll see what they do with Marte Mapu as well, like what his role is going to be.

00:42:40And I'll on the last point is this, because you know, I brought him up, I almost included

00:42:45him on my list, but I feel like I've talked about him a lot for someone who just might

00:42:48get cut by the end of August.

00:42:50If Peppers gets hurt, Jalen Hawkins is the next player up, like, and that's assuming

00:42:55Marte Mapu is healthy and effective at safety and they might just go screw it.

00:42:58We need you more linebacker.

00:42:59And I get that they rotate them through a lot of these guys are second level players

00:43:02for the most part, Peppers, Duggars, Mapu, but we'll have to see what Jalen Hawkins looks

00:43:07like because he was cut middle of last year and play mostly special teams.

00:43:11And he's had years when he's played safety pretty well.

00:43:13He's more of the free safety prototype, a little bit leaner, a little bit faster than

00:43:16those guys.

00:43:17But you just don't know what you have in your own system until you play.

00:43:21And if Peppers goes down, that's a question mark or an area where it's a team strength

00:43:26and then suddenly becomes this feels a little more rickety than you'd expect.

00:43:30Okay, we've got five minutes, basically five, six minutes to get through three things.

00:43:34We will start with Drake May because it just wouldn't be a Patriots podcast.

00:43:37We weren't talking about Drake May and you and I might not talk on this podcast again

00:43:41for a couple months because I'm going to go away for vacation.

00:43:43We'll do the training camp thing.

00:43:45Would you come to camp, by the way?

00:43:48I want to get out there for at least a couple of days this year.

00:43:51Okay, we'll talk after the pod and I will help make that happen and we'll get your credential

00:43:55and you come on down.

00:43:56But Drake May, give me a couple of reasons why he could start sooner than people think

00:44:01and then reasons why I know in your heart you believe it will be later than we expect.

00:44:06Okay, so I'll start with the obvious why he wouldn't start and it's what I've been hinting

00:44:10at the whole time is the personnel where the offensive line is just not right.

00:44:14And there's this fear that, hey, we could ruin the quarterback, right?

00:44:17And I don't know if I technically believe in that, but I understand the argument.

00:44:22It's like if you can't protect the guy, you don't want to have a car situation.

00:44:25I'm not saying that Drake May wouldn't bounce back from all this stuff.

00:44:28But if you're that uneasy about your offensive line, then it's tough to start the rookie,

00:44:32especially considering you gave Jacoby Brissett the money for this reason.

00:44:37Like the reason he has that is to make sure that Drake May is ready.

00:44:40So you're paying him the money.

00:44:41You might as well do that until Drake May is ready.

00:44:44Or more importantly, the offensive line is ready for Drake May to play, right?

00:44:48I mean, I guess the only counter argument to be, well, is the offensive line going to

00:44:51be ready at any point this year for Drake May to play?

00:44:54But at least you find ways to make things work, right?

00:44:56But the way that he would start is, what if he's just way better?

00:45:00I mean, you've already seen him up close and personal.

00:45:02What if it's just like you're lying to the rest of the team?

00:45:05You're like, whoa, this guy is so much better than Jacoby Brissett already, right?

00:45:10This guy is unbelievable.

00:45:12Look at him throwing on the run.

00:45:13Look how, look at the velocity on his throws compared to everybody else on the roster.

00:45:17I mean, I can't believe I feel bad for

00:45:18Zappy being out with this group of quarterbacks right now.

00:45:21It's like, geez, I mean, it's gotta be, at least with Mac, it's like, okay,

00:45:24we both got noodle arms.

00:45:25I mean, we can battle this situation out.

00:45:27But the other reason, so the big one would be he's just way better.

00:45:31And you'd be lying to the team not to play him, right?

00:45:34You'd be saying like, you have a better chance to win with him than Brissett.

00:45:37That would be the big thing to me.

00:45:39But just sort of this is a conspiracy one.

00:45:43What if the owner has a say?

00:45:44And I know that he doesn't like to get involved in football stuff, right,

00:45:47with the old coach.

00:45:48But what about, we talked at the top of the pod about the Celtics.

00:45:53They're sort of a team in town right now.

00:45:54Everybody's talking about Tatum and Brown.

00:45:56What brings more interest than to start the guy,

00:45:59the new toy that you just took third overall in the draft, or

00:46:03Brissett to start the season?

00:46:05What's more compelling to the local fan base?

00:46:07Especially considering,

00:46:08see the amount of national television games they have, Calhoun?

00:46:11Not many.

00:46:12You wanna get a little bit more intriguing?

00:46:14Maybe Drake May can do that.

00:46:15I mean, maybe there's a little bit of a push from the owner,

00:46:18who I think has had a very weird off season to begin with.

00:46:23And who better than store brand Jason Tatum, aka Drake May,

00:46:26to contend with the real Jason Tatum,

00:46:28a description that Drake gave himself when he first met him,

00:46:31about what he's like in the basketball court.

00:46:33I'm just a discount version of one of the five,

00:46:36six best players in the world.

00:46:38Kid does not lack for confidence.

00:46:39And look, 21 years old, needs to lead a football team.

00:46:42That's the last thing you would want is him to lack confidence.

00:46:43So we shall see.

00:46:45Yes, I would say two things need to happen for Drake May to start.

00:46:48We are not gonna know about them.

00:46:49The Patriots are not gonna know about them for at least two months.

00:46:52One, how does he look, right?

00:46:53The decisions he's making, his answer's under pressure.

00:46:56The playmaking, is it there or is it gonna take a while to come back,

00:46:59given he could obviously do it in college, but there's a time and a place.

00:47:03And with the speed at which the NFL game is played,

00:47:05you need to adjust and catch up to that time, to know when to go cross body,

00:47:09no look, and when to just make the simple check down.

00:47:12The second thing is, they need to feel like they can protect him enough.

00:47:15The situation is stable.

00:47:17It's not perfect.

00:47:18But I would imagine if they have two question marks in the offensive line,

00:47:21we just won't see him.

00:47:22One question mark or hole in your offensive line, you can mitigate, right?

00:47:26Bootlegs, opposite.

00:47:28Double teams, chips, keep a tight end in, quick game, whatever it is.

00:47:31But two is like fighting a two front war.

00:47:33And I just don't think that's gonna happen.

00:47:35Because something Devin McCourty said in this podcast a couple months ago after

00:47:38visiting with Gerard, and just said they wanna keep it stable.

00:47:41I think that's the right approach, patient one.

00:47:43So you and I are in agreement there.

00:47:44Okay, last thing you wanted to get to was the Brady retirement ceremony,

00:47:49which next week or the week after, we're gonna have Nick Fitzy Stevens on,

00:47:53you're a friend of mine.

00:47:54He emceed the pre-portion of it.

00:47:57He's got behind the scenes stories.

00:47:58And then he and I are gonna do this scrimmage draft that apparently me,

00:48:02male friend Gary loves to do in 15, that's it.

00:48:05But we're gonna do it, it's gonna be a fun exercise, and that's it.

00:48:07So he will tell more about that.

00:48:08But you had this great point of, hey, what if it was tonight?

00:48:13619 or 620, 24, not 612, 24, because the finals are over.

00:48:18Boston is riding this new high.

00:48:20I'm with you.

00:48:20I just think they got a little too married to the day, what say you?

00:48:24Yeah, we all know the synergy, the 6 and the 12, right?

00:48:26But it's like, so it was so well done.

00:48:29And Fitz, he did a great job.

00:48:30I watched a lot of the red carpet stuff.

00:48:32It was so well done.

00:48:32It was so cool what they did.

00:48:34They had the position groups come up, like the quarterbacks.

00:48:36And then you had the pass catchers.

00:48:38You had some of the great defensive.

00:48:39It was so awesome.

00:48:41And then the Celtics game started.

00:48:43And I didn't get to see Brady and Belichick's speeches until the next day.

00:48:47And guess what?

00:48:48They were both awesome.

00:48:50Brady's speech was unbelievable.

00:48:51And he said, it's not me.

00:48:52It's not you.

00:48:53It's us.

00:48:54I mean, if I had had a couple of cocktails in me,

00:48:56I may have cried watching that thing, hearing Brady talk about it.

00:48:59I'm not saying this now, which we all know, right?

00:49:02Yeah, it was unbelievable.

00:49:04And by the way, we knew when the NBA finals were going back to last year.

00:49:09Did the Patriots not pay attention to the sportsbooks?

00:49:12The Celtics were the favorites.

00:49:14So I just felt like, I understand the synergy.

00:49:16But it was a Wednesday night, Calhoun.

00:49:19OK, it's a Wednesday.

00:49:19Why is it so important to do it on that day?

00:49:22I just felt like, I don't know, maybe this is me just selfishly overreacting.

00:49:25But I would have liked to watch the Brady and Belichick thing

00:49:29after the NBA finals, already on this championship high,

00:49:32and be like, oh, yeah, let's remember that time, too.

00:49:34So I just, I don't know.

00:49:36I hated the fact that it was during the NBA finals,

00:49:38and specifically on a game day, even if you

00:49:40could have done it between days.

00:49:42Yeah.

00:49:44Now, I just raised the possibility of doing it tonight as we record.

00:49:46Tonight would have been game six if the series extended.

00:49:48And I thought Celtics match would go game six.

00:49:50If it was the Nuggets, I guarantee you they would still

00:49:53be playing in Denver tonight, however the series looked,

00:49:55whether the Celtics would have been up or down.

00:49:58I will tell you, too, when I was in Dallas,

00:50:01yeah, it was before game three, and their ceremony was going on.

00:50:05Couple people within Celtics asked me, like, hey,

00:50:08so what was up with your friends over at the Patriots?

00:50:10Why was it tonight?

00:50:11And I said, one of two reasons.

00:50:14One of which, they don't care, right, what anyone else is going.

00:50:18They go, we're still the Patriots in this sense.

00:50:20It's Brady, it's Belichick, an event that will bring all of them in.

00:50:23It's a rock show, or not a rock show, but it's

00:50:26a concert with Jay-Z and Kenny Chesney, Bill Burr's doing the opening.

00:50:29It's a full-on production.

00:50:30There could be no more pull than something that's got comedy,

00:50:33it's got music, it's got biggest stars in sports,

00:50:36and arguably New England.

00:50:38And so screw this, even the Celtics in the finals, we're bigger than you.

00:50:42Number two would have been just the idea of 6-12-24 was something

00:50:46they fell so in love with that they could not pull themselves away

00:50:49from it whatsoever.

00:50:51So look, it was full.

00:50:54My parents went and had a blast.

00:50:55I know Fitzy did a great job.

00:50:56I'm excited to hear more behind-the-scenes stuff

00:50:58in a couple of weeks on this podcast, but I'm with you.

00:51:00It would have been nice to watch that to myself in full, but oh no, poor me.

00:51:04I was in Dallas.

00:51:04So we have it very good up here, right?

00:51:07If we're picking and choosing between celebrating the greatest, arguably,

00:51:10American athlete in team sports of all time,

00:51:13versus watching another team go to a championship,

00:51:16just five years after our last year in Boston,

00:51:18and I get to wear a Celtics pullover on my Patriots podcast, we're doing OK.

00:51:23Yeah, no, you're right.

00:51:24And we got to find out, I never knew that Peyton Manning and Tom Brady

00:51:28worked out together in 2009.

00:51:29I'm like, whoa, this is absolutely insane.

00:51:32We'll kill you if you share this.

00:51:34Yeah, I know.

00:51:36They did it right, too.

00:51:37I mean, you mentioned Jay-Z, which is awesome,

00:51:40and we know Brady's a big Jay-Z guy.

00:51:42I mean, the Kenny Chesney thing, I mean, it's not really 2008 anymore.

00:51:45Probably could have avoided that one, but I thought it was awesome,

00:51:47and I thought it was really well done.

00:51:49So maybe I'm making a big deal about nothing.

00:51:51Yeah.

00:51:53Brian, I have one more question, and then I have some notes,

00:51:55and then we're going to get out of here.

00:51:57You don't have any 24-year-old girlfriend news

00:52:00you want to share with us, do you?

00:52:03No.

00:52:04I can't believe that's a thing, man.

00:52:07Well, it's unbelievable.

00:52:10Some of us could believe it if we might have known about it for a while,

00:52:12but it's not really our business.

00:52:14I don't work for TMZ.

00:52:15That's out in the world now.

00:52:16We'll leave that there.

00:52:18Lastly, I had a story with going fishing with David Andrews.

00:52:22It's up on thebostonherald.com right now.

00:52:24I've tweeted it out a bunch of times.

00:52:25Please read if you have a second.

00:52:26That's been in the works for weeks.

00:52:28You hear David in a way that he has never spoken before,

00:52:30and it's not because it was me.

00:52:31It wasn't because we were fishing, but the story's months in the works.

00:52:35I'm one of the few per year that I'm like, OK, that was good.

00:52:38I like this, what I wrote.

00:52:39So please go read.

00:52:41Coming up, we have another male fan, Mike Clancy,

00:52:43our first international fan, calling in from Ireland.

00:52:46I caught Mike, our friend of the podcast, at the end of a long workday.

00:52:50So shout out, Mike, for pushing through and answering

00:52:52my silly little questions.

00:52:53Spent 10 minutes on the pod.

00:52:55Lastly, if you want to join the podcast in these upcoming couple of weeks,

00:52:58donate to Boston Children's Hospital.

00:53:00I will tweet out the link.

00:53:01Show me a receipt.

00:53:02It could be $1.

00:53:03It could be $100.

00:53:04It could be $20.

00:53:05And then we will find a time to get you on this show,

00:53:08answer your mailbag question, and be asked for 5 to 10 minutes.

00:53:11So that's it.

00:53:11Any final thoughts from you?

00:53:14No, man, I'm just ready now.

00:53:15We're getting ready for the parade on Friday, as you mentioned.

00:53:18And then I'm actually having a lot of fun right now.

00:53:20Red Sox are rolling, so that's good.

00:53:21Hopefully, they can keep it at least competitive until football season,

00:53:25because I really can't wait to watch Drake May.

00:53:27I can't remember.

00:53:28I haven't been this excited about the Patriots for a while.

00:53:31I was not this excited about Mack.

00:53:32And Mack had a really good rookie season, a lot better than I thought.

00:53:35But I haven't been this excited about the Patriots in a while,

00:53:38because I feel like, hey, there may actually

00:53:40be light at the end of the tunnel.

00:53:42And I say that as somebody that just watched the Patriots win in 2019.

00:53:45It wasn't that long ago, right?

00:53:47But it feels like, hey, maybe they have their answer.

00:53:50Could be.

00:53:51Hope so.

00:53:52I would love to watch some fun offense.

00:53:53Not explaining to people why it's still broken.

00:53:56You're three.

00:53:57I think it's going to be a tough season.

00:53:58But look, this is not the time to get down or be negative.

00:54:01It's late June.

00:54:03It's a dead period.

00:54:04We'll have camp.

00:54:04I will get you credentials to camp.

00:54:06We will talk soon.

00:54:07And then we'll have you back in the pod in a couple months, all right?

00:54:10All right, man.

00:54:11Thank you, sir.

00:54:12OK, so technically, we are still in Dallas here recording Wednesday.

00:54:16This is the eve of game three.

00:54:17It's time break today.

00:54:18But if you are listening now, we are going back in time

00:54:20because this is an episode for next week.

00:54:22I wanted to record now today, however, with Mike Clancy, our next guest

00:54:26from across the pond in Ireland.

00:54:27Because I was just chatting with Mike off air,

00:54:30he not only donated to Boston Children's and DMed me about it,

00:54:33I completely forgot until he followed up because the Patriots game in London

00:54:36was announced.

00:54:37He said, all right, Patriots in London.

00:54:38I said, hey, I owe you five to 10 minutes on the podcast.

00:54:41So Mike Clancy from Ireland is here as our latest mail fan.

00:54:44Welcome to the podcast, my friend.

00:54:46Thanks for having me, Andrew.

00:54:48So I asked you, you know, same old deal.

00:54:51You come with the question.

00:54:53You get to answer it.

00:54:53Then I give you the response.

00:54:55We don't really have a question today, but we don't really need one

00:54:58because you're our first international guest.

00:55:00And so we can talk about how you got into the Patriots.

00:55:03And if we have a little bit more time, you are not as bummed

00:55:05about the Patriots missing out on Calvary as I know a bunch of folks

00:55:08were two months ago.

00:55:09So start with start with your fandom.

00:55:13Yeah, so obviously American football isn't massive in Ireland,

00:55:17but I remember the Super Bowl.

00:55:18The first one they played against the Giants was being broadcast on Irish TV

00:55:22and kind of like, all right, like, don't know who else support here.

00:55:26And I heard there was a good bit of

00:55:30a lot of the Americans didn't like the Patriots after the Spygate or whatever.

00:55:34So kind of just kind of thought like, you know, Boston,

00:55:38New England are kind of linked with Ireland as well.

00:55:41So just kind of said I'd root for them.

00:55:43And I remember they put up a highlight as well of the Moss

00:55:46touchdown at the end of the regular season to go 16 and 0 against the Giants as well.

00:55:51And just kind of from then, then just started following it properly.

00:55:54And yeah, obviously picked the right team after the run

00:55:59they went on down in the 2010s.

00:56:02So you weren't just swept off your feet by Tom Brady, who again today, Tom Brady Day.

00:56:06It's just not how handsome he was.

00:56:07I'll pick the quarterback.

00:56:08He's the best looking. He's got the most championships.

00:56:10This was a full team, full team buy in for you.

00:56:12Yeah, I think he probably helps.

00:56:14But yeah, no, it's just, yeah, obviously at the time,

00:56:19I barely knew who anyone was like and you weren't long finding out how good

00:56:24Tom was and Randy Moss and a couple of the Welker as well.

00:56:27But yeah, it wasn't, you know, the team kind of changed then over time.

00:56:32And then Edelman was my favorite player for years then.

00:56:35And hopefully Drake May will be the new favorite.

00:56:39Yeah. Who do you like now as far as the team?

00:56:42And what have you grown to appreciate?

00:56:44You know, watching all these years later, because I just have to imagine this very,

00:56:48I would say like staccato type of game, right?

00:56:50It's play. There's a break. There's another play.

00:56:52It's not a flow sport. It's not rugby. It's not soccer.

00:56:54Like, who do you like now?

00:56:55And then what have you come to appreciate about it that you didn't in the first couple of years?

00:56:59I guess the thing just in general about sports I like is that every play

00:57:03is so different that there's so much in one play that goes on for five or six seconds.

00:57:09You can break down so many, every jewel on the offensive line,

00:57:12every receiver has a route and the quarterback has so many different decisions to make.

00:57:16And there's so many moving parts.

00:57:18And that even though there's a lot of stoppages in that, there's a lot.

00:57:21It's very tactical.

00:57:23And there's a lot of,

00:57:27there's a lot of, yeah, I don't know how to put it into words,

00:57:29but there's a, like it's just a very intelligent game, I think.

00:57:35I guess player wise,

00:57:38Romander Stevenson's quite a favourite.

00:57:43Just the way he's able to create so much out of nothing.

00:57:47And hopefully to get the contract done that you were talking about in the last pod.

00:57:54And then just, yeah, defensively then they're so strong as well.

00:57:56Gonzalez obviously looks like he's going to be a big player for the future.

00:58:01And yeah, just watching players like Duggan, Bentley and Peppers,

00:58:07they hit so hard as well.

00:58:08It's crazy, really.

00:58:11Sounds like your closet could be just full of red, white and blue jerseys like that.

00:58:14I think I got eight players in there from you.

00:58:18I have an Edelman one anyway, and that's the most recent one I have.

00:58:21And then I just have the jumper and the t-shirt as well.

00:58:24Good.

00:58:25Well, you mentioned Cristian Gonzalez in a, you know,

00:58:27dropped some notes earlier in this episode, or planned to, you know,

00:58:30about the last minicamp practice happened today.

00:58:32That's over Jonathan Jones after practice, who's not really been participating,

00:58:36but obviously watching Cristian Gonzalez said he's going to be one of the best

00:58:39players in the league.

00:58:41So that's across positions.

00:58:42That's across everything.

00:58:43Offense, defence, special teams.

00:58:44And so, again, I think we all want to see it.

00:58:48They fully believe it's going to happen.

00:58:49But not to mention just the jersey number.

00:58:52I think the zero appeal.

00:58:53Do you have something, I don't know, are you a Tatum guy?

00:58:55There's something a little cool about the zero.

00:58:57There is, yeah.

00:58:58Especially when it's a new thing to the NFL as well.

00:59:01Like he could lock that number down as something unique to him.

00:59:06Right.

00:59:06Speaking of zeros, Calvin Ridley was wearing zero at least last year with the

00:59:11Jaguars.

00:59:12I don't know what he's doing with the Titans besides counting his money with his

00:59:14wife, not girlfriend, down in Tennessee.

00:59:17You, again, are not as bummed about losing out on him.

00:59:20And we haven't talked about receivers in a long time.

00:59:23And, you know, Calvin Ridley will come up, as DeAndre Hopkins did, if the Patriots,

00:59:28you know, struggle at that position, right, at receiver.

00:59:30And he's succeeding elsewhere, obviously, in Tennessee.

00:59:32Opposite Hopkins, just like Hopkins did a year ago.

00:59:34But why are you already not bummed?

00:59:36Don't need to see how he does.

00:59:37This is just not, they're not going to regret this.

00:59:39Yeah, I just think he's turning 30 by the end of this year.

00:59:43He played 17 games last season and barely reached 1,000 yards in an offense with

00:59:48a very established quarterback already.

00:59:51I just think the amount of money, obviously, if you can get him a bit cheaper

00:59:54and on a shorter contract.

00:59:56But when you're talking about nearly $100 million for that kind of a player,

00:59:59which I think was like $50 million guaranteed, he's going to be 33 or 34 by the end of that contract.

01:00:05And I think this year for the Patriots, it's not, like, obviously, they do need a number

01:00:10one wide receiver in the near future, but they don't need one exactly this year.

01:00:15Because I wouldn't even play Drake May a whole lot.

01:00:18I think try and build for the following year and keep that cap space instead of a year

01:00:23from now saying, oh, well, we're stuck with this bad contract.

01:00:26We don't need, along with Jujus, that's still going and all that, when they could just save

01:00:31the money and then, who knows, someone could pop up that they could trade for.

01:00:34Or else maybe Polk is number one or maybe they get another receiver, maybe a high pick

01:00:39next year and they probably have a top 10 pick and maybe a top 40 pick and get another

01:00:44wide receiver and get an offensive, get a left tackle.

01:00:48So, like, I just think it's something that they could have regretted.

01:00:52Whereas at the moment, I think I like the fact that they double dipped in the draft

01:00:58rather than paying crazy money in a small wide receiver market.

01:01:04You are a rare breed, Mike Clancy, not because you are streaming in from Ireland after work

01:01:09and making time in the middle of the day on a Wednesday, but because you are a patient

01:01:12Patriots fan.

01:01:13And I will have to say I appreciate that, seeing it in my mentions and YouTube comments

01:01:16isn't to say everyone wants everything right now.

01:01:20But I would get it.

01:01:21I even get it if they do.

01:01:22I would say all the seasons that we just watch, especially in offense, give us the receivers,

01:01:25make it happen, just score some freaking points.

01:01:27But I think you make a lot of valid points there.

01:01:29So that's that's well done by you.

01:01:31Last question.

01:01:32We'll get you out of here.

01:01:33You being five hours ahead have to watch one o'clock games here on the East Coast at six,

01:01:38four o'clock games at nine.

01:01:39And then the Patriots, which are only doing this once ever play at night Thursday, Sunday,

01:01:44Monday, there's going to be a Saturday one.

01:01:46You would have to stay up until 1 a.m. to watch the kickoffs.

01:01:49Are you staying up for any of those games, Mike Clancy, out there in Ireland to watch

01:01:52at 1 a.m.?

01:01:53I do sometimes.

01:01:54I'm always like, oh, I'll just watch the first quarter and that turns to the first half.

01:02:00And then if it's a tight game, then I just say, go on, I'll stay up for the rest of it.

01:02:05Obviously, it's ideal to like a four o'clock game and nine until midnight over here, which

01:02:12is fine.

01:02:13But yeah, I'm used to it.

01:02:15I haven't actually watched many Celtics games just because they're all kind of midweek ones

01:02:19as well.

01:02:20But yeah, that's the joys of it, I suppose.

01:02:23Now do you have a pint?

01:02:25What's the setup?

01:02:26What are you eating?

01:02:27Like we have, you know, pretty standard stuff here in the States as far as what you're eating

01:02:30at the game, what you're drinking.

01:02:31It's all very bland.

01:02:32Like light beer.

01:02:33You have any Guinness?

01:02:34What's the setup?

01:02:35I wouldn't have a Guinness because I'd be at home.

01:02:38So it's usually I would drink Guinness in general, but only from a draft point.

01:02:44So usually just maybe cans of Adobe cores or be similar to Bud Light or something.

01:02:50Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:02:51All right.

01:02:52Well, we might be able to grab one in London coming up in late October.

01:02:55You might be for that game.

01:02:56I don't know what we'll do for this podcast, but the other folks, you know, across the

01:03:00sea that I know listeners podcast want to meet up.

01:03:03Maybe we'll do that and we will have a pint Guinness because we will be out at a bar somewhere.

01:03:07We're not.

01:03:08The Pazzer Inference podcast does not meet up anywhere but a bar.

01:03:10So that's where we'll be.

01:03:12Yeah.

01:03:13I appreciate the time.

01:03:14Thank you for the questions.

01:03:15And again, for the donations.

01:03:16If anyone else wants to be a male fan, I know it's the dead of the offseason, but these

01:03:20kids still need money at Boston Children's Hospital fighting cancer.

01:03:23Mike has done his part to support if you can do the same.

01:03:26You can come on the podcast.

01:03:27We can talk about whatever.

01:03:28But in the meantime, thank you, Mike.

01:03:29No matter.

01:03:30Thanks for having me, Andrew.

7 forgotten Patriots and a Belichickian Celtics championship | Pats Interference

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