Jay King and Brian Robb are in LA to break down a puzzling Celtics road trip. Was the poor showing in LA a byproduct of the schedule or something more concerning?
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SportsTranscript
00:00Steve Marvel, Steve Marvel, Miles and Sam Steve Marvel, Steve Marvel, oh yeah!
00:11Steve Marvel, Steve Marvel, Miles and Sam Steve Marvel, Steve Marvel, and a nice tea!
00:20He robbed Jim Packer, J. King, Steve Marvel, Steve Marvel, to seize around the court to get another ring!
00:27Steve Marvel, Steve Marvel, everybody in the chat now sing!
00:31Steve Marvel, Steve Marvel, Steve Marvel, Steve Marvel, Miles and Sam Steve Marvel, Steve Marvel, oh yeah!
00:42Welcome back! Still potable! Celtics just got absolutely stomped on by the Los Angeles Lakers.
01:02But I'll tell you what, the players didn't really seem to be bothered by it.
01:08I have not seen the locker room so unbothered by a loss in a while.
01:15Like we walked in there, everybody was in good spirits, guys laughing or joking around.
01:22Then Chris Stops was the first player to speak and he was kind of like, yeah, I think we're playing well recently.
01:29I think we're starting to pull ourselves out of it.
01:32It's like, what? You guys just got whacked by 30.
01:36You got beat so bad, Bronny James was out there on the court.
01:39You let Dalton connect, you like gave Vincent Go Wild.
01:43And they were like, nah bro, it's the second night of a back-to-back.
01:485-7 Jay, 5-7.
01:505-7.
01:52The people who played against the Clippers played a ton of minutes.
01:57People are banged up and they were ready to just throw that result in the trash and move on from it.
02:04And they were not deterred.
02:06I could promise you by that loss.
02:09Yeah, it was pretty, I don't know if it's wild.
02:14Again, this is kind of where this team's been at for over a month now.
02:21And it is, this was, this was a scheduled loss.
02:25Now, the fact that it was a Lakers game made me think like, well, they'll get up for the Lakers.
02:31They got fresh legs coming in, Drew Holiday, Porzingis, Al Horford.
02:36Tell you what, the fresh legs didn't do much for Drew Holiday and Al Horford in this game.
02:39Porzingis looked good.
02:42Jaylen Brown looked good at points.
02:44Everyone else pretty much across the board did not look good in this game.
02:48Yeah, honestly, they looked gassed.
02:50And I thought the first quarter, like they started off trying to attack things the right way.
02:57Like Jaylen Brown was getting guarded by Anthony Davis.
03:01And he was trying to make Anthony Davis pay from the perimeter.
03:05Chris asked Porzingis, because Anthony Davis was on Jaylen Brown, was getting guarded by a smaller guy.
03:12And the Celtics found him for a lot of post-up bargains.
03:15He was killing them early on.
03:17And then I just felt like they just didn't have their normal physicality.
03:21They got beat up on the glass.
03:23LeBron had that play early on where he missed like two or three times
03:27and just kept getting the rebound and finished it with grown man strength.
03:32And so it did feel like a tired game.
03:36It wasn't like they had no effort.
03:39I thought that the end of the second quarter,
03:41they tried to really fight their way back into it, made like no progress.
03:44And then the third quarter started, they really ratcheted up the defense.
03:48I thought their defense was great for a little while.
03:50Derek White swatted Austin Reeves.
03:52Chris asked Porzingis had a great block of Anthony Davis on a drive.
03:56They just couldn't sustain any momentum.
03:59They missed four straight free throws between Tatum and Brown.
04:02They went scoreless for like almost five minutes.
04:06It did feel like a tired team, a team that's been through a lot.
04:12And that said, the concerning part is that Derek White and Drew Holiday
04:19have just kind of fallen off lately.
04:23That's what they need to figure out.
04:27Because the upside of this night, like you said,
04:32the starting five when they were together in this game were good
04:36at the beginning of the first and third quarter.
04:39It was the rest, everything else, like any other combination of this game.
04:43And Derek and Drew were first and foremost among that.
04:47Derek White, I was looking it up.
04:49I think he's been, he has shot like under 40%
04:55in like eight of his last nine games or something like that.
04:59And it's not just that he's not even involved.
05:01Right.
05:02It is.
05:03It's like, and even like he's doing nothing.
05:05Yeah, exactly.
05:06Exactly.
05:07Like he's not putting his imprint on the game at all.
05:09I wouldn't be surprised.
05:10And he was like really limping after the Clippers game,
05:14like just looked kind of hobbled.
05:18I wouldn't be surprised if he's just battling through some sort of,
05:22maybe not an injury, but he's hurting right now
05:25and has something nagging going on because it's just been weird.
05:30And obviously Derek White, fantastic at basketball.
05:35But lately just has given the Celtics very little
05:39in the form of offensive consistency.
05:41And he had a very good game against the Clippers.
05:46But in the locker room, he was kind of moving
05:49like he was really hurting after the Clippers game.
05:52And then the next night he comes in and lays a dud.
05:56And I would not be surprised if he's dealing with some injuries.
06:01And he's like an iron man.
06:02He just plays through anything.
06:04He always wants to be on the court.
06:06He's not going to complain about anything.
06:08He's not even going to bring up anything as an excuse.
06:11Like that's just who Derek White is.
06:15But I think I'm at the point where it's like,
06:18he's probably going through something.
06:21Yeah, it certainly looks like it.
06:22I almost hope he is because that would better explain
06:25what's going on.
06:26If he's not, then it's like, eh,
06:28like that's not where you want him to be.
06:31And then Drew Holiday, you know, he didn't play last night,
06:34but he did play the other back-to-back last weekend
06:38four and seven nights for him overall.
06:40And he just looked like he had nothing.
06:42He missed some bunnies.
06:45He killed them in the stretch
06:47when they were like coming back in the third quarter.
06:50Yeah.
06:51He missed a wide open layup
06:54where I think he heard LeBron's footsteps behind him.
06:59He had a bad turnover that led to a Lakers bucket the other way.
07:05Like you can't have those plays
07:07when you're trying to come out of a 19-point halftime deficit.
07:13And he was, I actually thought his defense was pretty good.
07:17Like he played LeBron in the post tough.
07:21He played Davis in the post tough.
07:23I thought he was pretty good defensively,
07:26but offensively it was just, he was smoking layups
07:29and just didn't really have it.
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08:51Yeah, it's been kind of a lot.
08:54I mean, his usage has been down more than ever this year.
08:57He has scored and doubled into points
09:00in just three of the last, I think, 10 games here.
09:05And he's shooting okay,
09:06but he's just not getting many shots up.
09:08But certainly on nights like this,
09:11they have a lot invested in these guys in the backcourt
09:14and getting six points from White and Paulie combined.
09:19That's not big.
09:21Porzingis, I feel like Jay is close to,
09:25not all the way back,
09:26or pretty close to back offensively,
09:28pretty as good as you're going to get out of him.
09:30I will say, though, he looked so gassed
09:33after they ran post-ups for him four or five times
09:37in pretty close succession.
09:40And it looked like he called for a sub.
09:44They didn't give him a sub,
09:46but it looked like he called for a sub.
09:47He was definitely like, there was a time,
09:49I forget who was guarding him,
09:52and he was just kind of like,
09:54somebody else take it, yeah.
09:57But he was crushing the smaller Lakers defenders.
10:03And he said, for the first time today, I think,
10:06he said, like, I'm feeling good physically.
10:10Before that, he's talked about
10:13how he hasn't been in great shape,
10:15hasn't been in great rhythm.
10:20Today, he was like, I'm good.
10:22I'm feeling legit lately.
10:25And so he's been super promising.
10:28I think his post-ups have gotten better and better,
10:30more and more physical.
10:32He's back to kind of just mashing guys down there
10:35like he did a season ago.
10:39But yeah, the backcourt,
10:41and Drew Holiday had stretches like this last season
10:44where it was just kind of like,
10:47why is he doing nothing?
10:49Why are they not giving him the ball?
10:51When he does get the ball,
10:53why is he doing dumb shit?
10:57But now, the concerning part is that he's a year older,
11:02and if this is the sign of,
11:05an early sign of slippage,
11:07then that's a problem.
11:11But Derek White,
11:12I don't think you should ever be concerned about Derek White.
11:15Water will find its level there.
11:17But with Drew, you do worry.
11:21He's, I think, 34 years old now.
11:24He's played a lot of games,
11:27played on the USA team,
11:29played deep playoff runs,
11:32and it's like...
11:34That's cool.
11:35Yeah.
11:36But I also think like,
11:40they need to do more to get those guys involved sometimes.
11:45Like, they can't just be spot-up guys.
11:47And especially with Derek White.
11:48Like, Derek White,
11:49you should be running offense through Derek White.
11:51You should be empowering him.
11:53And maybe if he's hurt, that's one thing.
11:56But you can't have Derek White
11:59as small a piece of the offense as he has been lately.
12:03I thought Tatum was bad tonight too.
12:04I thought Tatum, like,
12:06he just didn't play with any force.
12:08Like, a bunch of his first shots
12:11were just like pull-up threes in isolation.
12:15He had, like, Max Christie on him,
12:18Austin Reeves on him sometimes.
12:20It was like guys that if he was at his best,
12:23he would overpower and get to the rim
12:26and just kind of play through them.
12:28And instead, he just let them off the hook.
12:31It seemed like a tired game out of him to me.
12:35Like, Tatum did not have his stuff.
12:38And I thought he tried to battle through it.
12:40Like, there was a spurt late in the second quarter
12:44when he made some defensive plays
12:46and got out in transition.
12:47And then the third quarter,
12:49I thought he played with force.
12:52And they all played with force.
12:53But it was kind of a,
12:55it wasn't a complete game at all from Tatum.
12:58Yeah, he definitely came out flat.
13:02I think he got inspired out of the gate there.
13:05Offensively.
13:06And yeah, he did not try to,
13:11you know, attack the rim like he should
13:13against some of the mismatches he had.
13:15And I don't know, like,
13:18Porzingis showed up in this game.
13:19Jalen, I think, showed up for parts of this game.
13:22But other than that, it was pretty dismal.
13:26I think this is as bad as the bench and Tatum have looked.
13:29Those units have looked all year.
13:31Just like there's nothing.
13:32They just did not have it at all.
13:34Payton obviously had a bad shooting game.
13:36Al wasn't in threes.
13:38Payton had a bad shooting game.
13:39And he just tried to do some weird shit.
13:42Right.
13:43I don't know.
13:44He took a couple of really bad shots
13:46with Gabe Vincent defending him,
13:47like where he was trying to just overpower him.
13:50And Payton's really great at that most of the time.
13:53He can overpower even like some much bigger defenders,
13:57some six, seven, six, eight guys.
14:00But he didn't get Gabe Vincent where he wanted him
14:04and just kind of threw up some nonsense at the rim.
14:08Gabe Vincent up two years ago tonight.
14:11Gabe Vincent was back.
14:14It is fun.
14:15Like so many guys who have not shot well at all this season
14:18have just torched the Celtics.
14:20Yeah.
14:22And it's uncanny.
14:26Seriously, how many guys over the last two or three weeks
14:31have set their season high and made three-pointers
14:34against the Celtics?
14:36Gabe Vincent tied his season high.
14:38DeJounte Murray tied his season high I think in the first quarter,
14:42surpassed his season high in the first quarter.
14:45And those aren't the only two examples.
14:48A bunch of guys who have not made shots all year
14:51have made shots against the Celtics recently.
14:54And that's part of the game they play.
14:56That's part of the game good defenses should play
14:58is like we want the ball going to the guy who hasn't made shots.
15:02We want the ball going to a guy who has been inefficient
15:06from beyond the arc.
15:08And for whatever reason, a lot of those guys
15:11have just really punished them for that strategy lately.
15:17That said, like you have to make guys uncomfortable.
15:20They didn't do that to the Lakers.
15:22I thought especially in the first half,
15:25they let guys get comfortable in transition.
15:29LeBron had some easy buckets.
15:31Dalton Connect got some easy threes.
15:34It was like...
15:35Reeves.
15:37Yeah, Reeves.
15:39He got it going.
15:43And Joe said it after the game.
15:44He's like, they thrive in transition.
15:46They thrive on offensive rebounds.
15:48We let them do both.
15:50And I felt like Joe...
15:53You consider that the rebounding right now?
15:55Or do you think that's just a byproduct of where
15:57they're at in the season?
15:59Like, energy-wise, if not their rebounding
16:02is part of that equation.
16:04Yeah, I'm not ready to be worried about their rebounding.
16:09Like, they've been great defensive rebounding
16:14for years now.
16:18Their ninth, I believe, so far this season,
16:21which isn't great, but still not a glaring issue.
16:25They fell to 10th after today.
16:27I just refreshed NBA.com stats.
16:32So I'm not, like, super worried about it.
16:35But it's definitely something that can be a problem
16:38when they're not fully locked in.
16:40And it feels like it's been more of an issue.
16:45Yeah, their 24th in defensive rebounding rate
16:48over the last 15 games.
16:51Yeah, that's...
16:53I mean, that's glaring.
16:55But I think it's because the defense
16:59hasn't been up to par.
17:02They just haven't...
17:04They honestly haven't been locked in for a while.
17:07I do think they started to pick it back up
17:11defensively a little bit.
17:12I don't think the Clippers game was a good example
17:14of that.
17:15But the Warriors game, they were great defensively.
17:18The Hawks game, as bad as it got at the end,
17:21execution-wise, they were great defensively.
17:24But you don't want to, like,
17:27measure, like, such small increments of progress
17:32for the defending champs.
17:34It's almost embarrassing.
17:36Right.
17:37And those teams they play, like, the Warriors,
17:39that team was a shell of itself.
17:41And same with the Clippers.
17:43Those are...
17:45And the Hawks, you know, they had most of their buys there.
17:47But it is, like, even when they're making progress
17:49in these games, it's like, oh, yeah,
17:50they blew out the Warriors.
17:51But, like, the Warriors had, like,
17:54four rotation players were out.
17:56So there hasn't been...
17:57Certainly haven't been many signature wins
17:59against good opponents during this stretch.
18:04I will say the tenor around the team has kind of changed.
18:10Like, I feel like a lot of the times,
18:13and maybe I'm just misguided here,
18:17but I feel like a lot of the times,
18:19the locker room knows.
18:20Even before, like, the stats start to show it,
18:24if there's a concern, the locker room knows.
18:27And if things are starting to feel better again,
18:30the locker room knows.
18:32And, like, Joe, after the Warriors game,
18:35was like, it wasn't just tonight that we've shown
18:37signs of progress.
18:38It was the Atlanta game.
18:39We defended them as well as we have.
18:41And then Chris Hafts tonight was like,
18:44we're close, guys.
18:46He seemed excited about where they are,
18:49how they're progressing.
18:53And so I don't want to say, Celtics are back.
18:56They're going to just throttle teams now.
18:59But also, I do believe that the locker room
19:03often knows first.
19:06And they did not seem at all worried
19:09about tonight's loss.
19:13Schedule loss.
19:14And that's understandable for that.
19:15Like, that's as close to a schedule loss
19:18as you're going to get in the NBA,
19:19like, five and seven nights overtime last night.
19:25I'll say that.
19:26You give them the benefit of the doubt on that
19:28for what they've done last year.
19:30But now I look at these next 10 games,
19:33like, no more back-to-backs.
19:34Like, you're playing every other day.
19:36So they should have full board.
19:39Obviously, maybe injuries will come up here and there.
19:41But consistency needs to start now
19:45if they want to, like, be able to back up
19:48this talk about being close.
19:50Because Porzingis is back.
19:52He's playing well.
19:53The starting five is playing well together again.
19:56So those concerns are gone.
19:58But we're still, the ups and downs are still
20:01kind of there.
20:02And they can be explained by the schedule here.
20:06But now that excuse will essentially go away
20:09in the next few weeks.
20:10Do you think some guys aren't playing aggressively enough
20:14because they're back healthy again?
20:17Like...
20:18Yeah.
20:19I feel like Peyton Pritchard,
20:21the first two months of the season,
20:24he was as bold and daring as you could get.
20:28He was pulling up for step-back threes in transition.
20:33He was just, like, the...
20:37Some of his shots, like, bordered on reckless.
20:41The confidence was there.
20:43And that's what they wanted out of him.
20:46That's what they needed out of him.
20:48That's why he was a sixth man of the year frontrunner.
20:52Certainly still is one of those.
20:55I feel like the bravado that some of those guys played with,
20:59and I'll throw Derek White into that category,
21:03just hasn't been the same lately.
21:06Like, you want those guys to play with a green light.
21:11And part of the reason why they're such a dangerous offense
21:16is because they have a lot of guys who can do things
21:19off the bounce.
21:20They have a lot of guys who can shoot pull-up threes.
21:23They have a lot of guys who can damage you in different ways.
21:27But you need all those pieces to be confident
21:31and aggressive and bold.
21:35And it just feels like since they've gotten healthy,
21:38they haven't always gotten that from everybody.
21:42I think it's totally fair.
21:45And so that's one thing they need to figure out,
21:48is the line between sacrificing to get a great shot for the team
21:59versus let's just go out there and hunt.
22:05And it felt like the first couple months of the season,
22:07they were just hunting.
22:10And they had guys playing with freedom.
22:12They had guys playing with force.
22:13They had guys playing with the ultimate green light.
22:18And it feels like while they've tried to get back into rhythm as a team,
22:23it's sort of like I don't even know if it's a hesitation
22:26as much as they're so intent on getting everything cohesive
22:31and starting to get going as a team
22:35that maybe they've lost a little bit of that carefree nature
22:40that I think did them really well early on in the season.
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23:32How much do you think a three-point shooting plays into that
23:36during this stretch, too?
23:38Yeah, that's part of it, too, I'm sure.
23:40If you're shooting 34% for an extended stretch,
23:44you don't want to be like, watch me cook, boys.
23:50So I'm sure that's part of it.
23:53But I also think part of the lowest shooting percentage might be
23:57that they're not as bold, that they're not as daring,
24:00that they're not as carefree as they were earlier.
24:04It's always incredible to me how close a team,
24:09a great team is to being average
24:12and how close a barely more than average team is to being great.
24:18I've seen enough from the Celtics over the years.
24:22That EMA year was a perfect example.
24:25It was like, they sucked.
24:28They sucked.
24:30They sucked.
24:31They sucked.
24:33And all of a sudden, it's like a couple changes to playing style,
24:37a couple personnel changes, and it's like, they're amazing.
24:41They're off.
24:43And I think to be great in the NBA is so hard
24:50and to sustain it is so hard
24:53that you're always just a couple letdowns away from not being great.
25:03And they just need to find what makes them great again.
25:06And they seemed pretty intent on saying that they're getting there.
25:12But we'll see.
25:13We'll see.
25:14It was not the locker room I expected, honestly, tonight.
25:18I was stunned.
25:19Some laughing in there.
25:21Not guys that played, but just guys.
25:23It was very loose.
25:24Very, very loose.
25:27Which, like you said, is probably big picture a good sign.
25:32But with that said, there is, I don't know,
25:36it's a fine line right now for them in terms of getting to that point
25:42where they do look like a true contender again
25:45because for the last month,
25:46they've looked like a mediocre to good team consistently
25:51as opposed to...
25:52Net rating doesn't say that.
25:54Net rating doesn't say that.
25:55Although it might after I haven't checked.
25:57Yeah, we'll have to check the LLC.
25:59That didn't help the net rating.
26:01No.
26:02But yeah, the blowout wins,
26:04three blowout wins was doing a lot of work for them
26:06over the last month.
26:07So that's one where the net rating, in my mind,
26:09was covering up maybe a couple warts.
26:12Do you think, like after everything the players said tonight,
26:16are you surprised you think they mis-evaluated things
26:21by allowing everybody to play?
26:23Like Jalen said he rolled an ankle last night,
26:26and then he played.
26:28Like Derek White was limping in the locker room, he played.
26:32Jason Tatum didn't seem to have much energy-wise
26:36after playing 43 minutes against Clippers, and he played.
26:41And I'm sure part of it was like...
26:44It's the Lakers.
26:45It's tough to tell a guy you're sitting against the Lakers.
26:48100%.
26:49But I agree with you.
26:50I think if this is another random road game,
26:53I think you look hard at that because these guys,
26:57like a lot of these guys did play five and seven.
26:59They played big minutes for two overtime games in that stretch.
27:02And so you can see them wearing down.
27:05Jalen talked about it.
27:06Like you said, you noticed Derek has been limping
27:09around the locker room of late.
27:10Clearly he hasn't looked like himself.
27:12And then you have guys, again, like the Jane Springers of the world
27:16that got their chance and ran off it.
27:19And so, like, what the hell?
27:22You've got 30, 40 more games to find a rhythm right now.
27:26Try to build up some of these other guys a little bit.
27:29Jordan Walsh, et cetera.
27:30So it is.
27:32This is a tough example for that, but as this season progresses right now,
27:37I'd like to see maybe a little bit more of that to preserve some of these
27:41guys that are playing.
27:42Like Tatum and Brown are playing a lot bigger minutes this year than last
27:45year.
27:46Derek obviously as well.
27:48And I think you take the long haul should be looked at from that standpoint
27:54to like, okay, what's, can we get these guys right?
27:57And then we can really lock into form on that front.
28:00That could be part of the solving the equation here of getting back
28:05into the basketball.
28:07Tonight's game kind of reminded me of the Bucs game last year.
28:10Yeah.
28:11Where it was, they played a bunch of games.
28:14They played a bunch of minutes.
28:16And then the Bucs just wallop them.
28:19And in that game, Joe Mazula actually sat all the starters, I believe,
28:24at halftime and didn't play them at all after that.
28:28Tonight, he waved the white flag pretty early, not super early,
28:33but it was in the fourth quarter.
28:36I believe Jason Tatum didn't play a single second in the fourth quarter.
28:40Jalen Brown played a little bit in the fourth.
28:42But it felt like that where they just didn't have it.
28:48This was like a lot of the time recently, I do believe like they've been
28:55fighting through some different issues, like whether it's Porzingis kind
29:01of welcoming him back to the fold.
29:05I do think they fought with some complacency, but tonight,
29:10it did feel like they just had no energy for whatever.
29:14I don't think it was a lack of like trying to have energy.
29:17It's like they tried to wake themselves up several times.
29:20They tried to get out there and make plays, and it was just like
29:23they couldn't sustain it.
29:25It was they had nothing.
29:29At the end of the day, they had nothing.
29:32Yeah, but still again, a good trip is right there for them.
29:36If they go into Dallas, take care of business on Saturday,
29:40you take a three-in-one road trip for this week, any day of the week.
29:45And again, like this is still set up for them, Jay,
29:48to like get back to where they want to be pretty quick here
29:51because the back-to-backs are gone for a while.
29:54Porzingis looks right.
29:57Assuming those other guys can like Jalen, Derek,
30:00those guys can get rest they need or just like able to turn it around,
30:03this is they could be entering the All-Star break
30:09in a really good spot if they start to piece things together
30:12in the next five or ten games.
30:14But it's a lot of steps in the right direction on this trip,
30:17but this was one where, you know, I think remains to be seen.
30:21Like you toss this to the side if they take care of business Saturday,
30:25but if it's another step back on Saturday,
30:27then you look a little closer at things like this
30:30and look a little closer at some of the things we've talked about.
30:33Yeah, and it's crazy like just how unable they've been lately
30:38to string good games together.
30:42They've won two straight games once since January 3rd.
30:47They haven't had a three-game winning streak since January 3rd.
30:52The recent inconsistency,
30:55they haven't lost a ton of games in a row either.
30:57It hasn't been like they've strung a lot of losses together.
31:00It's just like bad game, good game, bad game, fine game, bad game,
31:05fine game, bad game, good game.
31:09Maybe just play well a few times in a row and see what happens.
31:15You'll probably be excited about what happens.
31:19They were not too worried about tonight's game though.
31:24We aren't worried about us because we're the greatest Celtics podcast ever.
31:29We love all you guys.
31:31We'll be here Monday through Friday as usual.
31:35Back next week.
31:38And man, I'm grateful for you guys. I really am.
31:42Love you all. Thank you all.
31:46Stew the pot of gold. Stew the pot of gold.
31:49The boss of Celtics. Stew the pot of gold. Stew the pot of gold.
31:52Oh yeah.
31:59Slow down from eating and drinking and all that wild stuff.