Dan Greenberg covers the Boston Celtics and the NBA for Barstool Sports. Dan joins the program to discuss the Celtics win over the Magic, whether the vibes are fixed, and why Tatum's usage rate doesn't tell the whole story.
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00Celtics Beat is brought to you by Price Picks and the Game Time app.
00:00:07Hey, everybody.
00:00:07Welcome in new Celtics Beat.
00:00:09Great to be here with you and at least for one night.
00:00:13I mean, I don't know when you're listening.
00:00:15See, it's very rare that we record these shows when the Celtics are in the
00:00:18middle of a back-to-back.
00:00:20I fully recognize.
00:00:21We don't have a super long shelf life and after all that went well against
00:00:26the magic, maybe everything goes to hell against the Hawks.
00:00:30I don't know.
00:00:31We'll find out.
00:00:32Here's what I do know in this moment in this this very second that we are
00:00:36sitting here and recording this show.
00:00:40After a stretch of seven straight alternating wins and losses and eight
00:00:44and seven over the last 15 for the defending champion want to be repeat
00:00:50champion Boston Celtics at least for one moment.
00:00:54The sky is not falling.
00:00:56It's just and and thank goodness for that because you know what heaven
00:01:00forbid these Celtics dropped a second straight fell to Toronto and Orlando.
00:01:06What might this show sound like right now?
00:01:09Adam Kaufman.
00:01:10Dem Valenti.
00:01:10Dan Greenberg is here with us from Barstool Sports and green is great
00:01:13to have you.
00:01:14It's funny.
00:01:16I said to have, you know, we're texting.
00:01:17I who should we have on the show?
00:01:19He's like, you know, it's it's been like since November since Greeny
00:01:22was on a really I feel crazy yesterday.
00:01:25You know, maybe that's because you're on my radio show recently, but it
00:01:28was like, I feel like I just taught and you know, I think I figured it
00:01:31out and this is probably true of anyone out there watching or listening.
00:01:35If you're, you know, subscribe to the podcast, you're watching on the
00:01:38you the CLNS YouTube page, wherever it is.
00:01:41You tweet so much.
00:01:44It's a problem.
00:01:45Those those of us that pay attention to your tweets as I do.
00:01:49I'll be honest.
00:01:49I mean, I don't read them all but I do have notifications on when you
00:01:53tweet.
00:01:54I'm sorry.
00:01:55You're far.
00:01:55I must light your phone.
00:01:57I mean, it's at least at least it comes through silently, but but you
00:02:00know, I because I don't I don't always get to watch every minute of
00:02:04every Celtics game in real time.
00:02:06And so I want to know what people are saying who either cover the team
00:02:10or around the team or or you know, the the fan perspective and certainly
00:02:14when it comes to be, you know, Celtics fan for I want I want to know
00:02:17what Greeny thinks but I think that's what it is.
00:02:19I think it's because I read so many of your tweets that I feel like I
00:02:22just talked to you and that it hasn't been months.
00:02:25Hello and welcome back.
00:02:26How are you?
00:02:27Hello.
00:02:28Honestly, the only thing I can say coming off last night is like how
00:02:32cathartic was that like for everybody for the players for the fans like
00:02:38had they started that game like one of eight or one of seven.
00:02:41I think everyone from the players to the arena to the fans at home, like
00:02:47we were all bracing ourselves just because they've been so dr.
00:02:51Jekyll.
00:02:52Mr.
00:02:52Hyde or whatever that saying is over the last, you know, month and a
00:02:56half last night against a good defense, you know, like even without
00:03:00their guys, that's still a defense that presents challenges to you in
00:03:05terms of perimeter length point of attack defense, all the things that
00:03:09give you trouble.
00:03:10They finally looked like the team that we expect and that they've proven
00:03:15to be for the last, you know, two and a half years, whatever it is.
00:03:18So it's a relief but it's now like, okay because of your inconsistency
00:03:24like I need to see this level of engagement and execution for a
00:03:29prolonged stretch before I say we're out of these dark days of hell
00:03:33because there's no other way to explain the piss poor caliber play.
00:03:38They've been playing since right since the Marcus smart loss on December
00:03:427th.
00:03:43This team has been a disaster by their standards.
00:03:46But last night for sure was a step in what you hope is the right
00:03:50direction.
00:03:51I think well, look, I think the broader way of saying what you just
00:03:54said is you went into a game expecting.
00:03:58They were going to win and win convincingly based on what was on the
00:04:03other side and you're fully healthy and they did right like obviously
00:04:08the previous game against the Raptors.
00:04:10Like I'm someone that you know, we won't really do betting talk here.
00:04:13I finally did.
00:04:14We just talked about this.
00:04:15They finally covered a double-digit spread.
00:04:17Well, but but like seriously in terms of the betting like I like to, you
00:04:21know, mess around in the NBA plenty and throw it, you know, like if
00:04:24there are teams that I like throw together some money line parlays
00:04:27that type of thing just just for my own amusement my own entertainment.
00:04:30These these aren't get rich type of bets, but you know after losing on
00:04:35the Celtics specifically in that game against the Raptors a game that
00:04:39I fully expected based on all the inconsistency and what we've been
00:04:42seeing lately and you got a terrible team on the other side like yeah,
00:04:45you know, they're going to go into Toronto and they're going to curb
00:04:48stomp the Raptors.
00:04:49This is going to be a statement win and not only do you not cover a
00:04:53double-digit spread you lose you don't even win you lose outright and
00:04:57so going into this game against the magic I was having a real sort of
00:05:01inner and I'm sure you and any of the fans of this team and and hell maybe
00:05:05some guys in that locker room members of the coaching staff front office
00:05:08whoever a real just sort of can I trust them can I trust and I trust
00:05:14them to go out and do what they are supposed to do.
00:05:17So yeah, when you say cathartic.
00:05:20I don't like I didn't need them to win by margin even yesterday.
00:05:23It was go out and win just go out and be the team you're supposed to
00:05:28be and like you said they they blew doors because again, you got a
00:05:32depleted magic team on the other side and you've got all your guys and
00:05:36you wanted to see the bounce back from Tatum inconsistent not shooting
00:05:41well lately you want to see Brown wake up a little bit you want to see
00:05:45some of the role guys you want like even freaking Hauser or Pritchard
00:05:49just make their life like just let's let's see you like you like to tweet
00:05:54it all the time people like you like we all it's it's the basketball
00:05:57cliche like just had to see one go in what we had is true.
00:06:00We had like bigger we had to see this win.
00:06:04We had to see this performance to now go into and this isn't going to
00:06:08be a game preview because that would be very dated for most listeners
00:06:11probably but in order to feel good about the game against the Hawks
00:06:16where you are again a double-digit spread we needed to see that against
00:06:21the magic and so in the spirit of
00:06:25You know the the cathartic performance drill it down a little bit to like
00:06:30to a man individually out there on the floor.
00:06:32What you needed to see against the magic again one game one of 82, but
00:06:38that you did see I mean, I really boil it down to is they just need to
00:06:44be average play to your standard.
00:06:46I don't need overachievement.
00:06:47You just can't be horrific.
00:06:51I mean, they've had six games shooting under 30% from three since I
00:06:56think what is it?
00:06:56The you know 7th of descent over the last 21 games a third of them.
00:07:01They can't even break 30% like that's so hard to do with the caliber of
00:07:06shooting like just be average just take care of the basketball just play
00:07:11connected play with energy play with pace like just being normal and I
00:07:16think up and down the roster you saw that right all of a sudden Derek
00:07:19white is more engaged.
00:07:21He's starting to see threes go down.
00:07:22He's not hanging his head.
00:07:24You have Jalen getting back and I honestly think Missoula's switch to
00:07:28the old rotation impacted this because it allowed guys to play the same
00:07:33way they played last season, right?
00:07:35You had Jalen taking over in the in the third quarter when Tatum was
00:07:39resting.
00:07:40He came back in the fourth.
00:07:41You had the early sub for Tatum so he could come out in the first quarter
00:07:45play the majority of the second.
00:07:47That's where he did most of his damage with the all bench lineup.
00:07:50So it was you had KP hitting you on the post and switches but also spacing
00:07:55the floor.
00:07:56You had Al Horford hitting his corner threes.
00:07:59You had Drew holiday finally hitting his corner threes.
00:08:02So it just felt like they got back to playing their standard and we know
00:08:08their standard is the best standard in the NBA.
00:08:10That's proven.
00:08:11That's not homerism.
00:08:13That's an objective fact.
00:08:14So to me it was more just like a reminder for them that if they play this
00:08:19way good things can happen when they stray from it when they're careless
00:08:23with the ball where they don't provide resistance defensively on the
00:08:27perimeter when they don't rebound when they don't make their open looks
00:08:31everybody starts to press the fans get nervous.
00:08:34The players start to hang their head and it's snowballs.
00:08:37It's contagious, right?
00:08:38Like if one person's in the shooting slump that spread if Tatum and Brown
00:08:42aren't showing the right effort defensively that spreads like these are
00:08:47all very common things that happen to every basketball team on the planet.
00:08:51It's just up to them to work through it and get back to the standard that
00:08:54we know they're capable of and that's what you saw last night.
00:08:57Just their normal like they didn't overachieve.
00:08:59It's not like they shot like they made 33s.
00:09:02I had some sort of crazy performance.
00:09:05It was legitimately their standard, you know, we're going to space the
00:09:08floor.
00:09:09We're going to move the ball and we're going to defend and look what
00:09:11happened and let me throw this to you because I know I've been monopolizing
00:09:15this but Green just reminded me of something and I'm glad he did because
00:09:17I wanted to bring it up.
00:09:19Every time the Celtics struggle and there's been a lot of it a lot of
00:09:22inconsistency over the last, you know, almost a month three weeks, whatever
00:09:26it's been as Green is alluded to multiple times it becomes and we vent
00:09:30about this on this show all the time.
00:09:32If you listen to the talking heads and mainstream media National logo,
00:09:35whatever it becomes a referendum on the way the Celtics play they're
00:09:39struggling because they're shooting too many threes and all this crap and
00:09:42it drives me nuts every single time and that is coming by like I so people
00:09:48don't don't confuse me with with with Greenies co-worker, you know cats
00:09:52over there and so people don't think I'm a fraud.
00:09:54I want to be true to myself people know like today's NBA the style all
00:10:00the three-point shooting the Celtics shooting like 55% of their attempts
00:10:04in a game or from three whatever the hell the number is.
00:10:07Yeah, I don't love it.
00:10:08It's not my favorite.
00:10:09I do long for the NBA that I grew up with so I'm not going to be a
00:10:13hypocrite when I say that however.
00:10:15The way they play is not the problem because like Greeny said they want
00:10:22a championship with it freaking running away from the rest of the NBA
00:10:25last year.
00:10:26That's not the issue when I have an issue if I'm looking at Toronto
00:10:30specifically for the sake of a recent example, it's when they look like
00:10:35ass when they look like they don't care.
00:10:37They look like they're trying you have players like Porzingis coming
00:10:40out and after the game and saying like shit effort like that's my problem
00:10:45when you struggle when you play like crap, it's it's not be all the
00:10:49threes weren't falling all the way.
00:10:50The players don't say that that's a media thing.
00:10:52The threes weren't falling to take him in like it's not working.
00:10:55You got to attack the bass.
00:10:56You got to try something different one.
00:10:58No, they don't unfortunately like they don't need to try anything
00:11:01different what they do works, right?
00:11:03Generally like overall generally it works which is why they're sitting
00:11:09at 29 and 12 right now and they're the defending champs and they're
00:11:12among the favorites to win it again this year.
00:11:14The issue Evan is when they go out there and look like they don't give
00:11:18a crap when they are just in a malaise.
00:11:21That's when they drive me nuts.
00:11:23Yeah, I get that and it's you go back to that Toronto game and it's
00:11:25the defensive stuff that really drives you crazy.
00:11:28It's the lack of effort on the defensive glass allowing a ton of
00:11:32offensive rebounds that stuff drives me crazy.
00:11:36But at the same time like this is the one thing I think that's one of
00:11:42the storylines is bothering the most like isn't winning a ring doesn't
00:11:45that give you like a little bit of leeway to just be like you little
00:11:50grace just to like like, hey, like we want to this team want to ring
00:11:54last year.
00:11:54They want a title last year.
00:11:55Like we know this team can do it.
00:11:57I guess that's what makes it annoying.
00:11:59It's like, oh, they're not bringing it like that every night.
00:12:01We know it's hard.
00:12:02It's hard to bring it like that every night.
00:12:03And yeah, when you play Toronto in Toronto and Toronto's you look at
00:12:07Kirk Goldsberry's chart and you have Toronto way the hell down here
00:12:11in quadrant number like three bottom left all the way down towards the
00:12:16bottom of the graph where the worst defense of the past 10 games by any
00:12:20team the league when you get beat by that team like that's that stinks
00:12:23that that hurts especially because you should have blown them out.
00:12:27But at the same time they come back against this Orlando team a team
00:12:30that's one of the best perimeter defensive teams in the league.
00:12:33Yeah, we know they're missing guys, but stuff that use that as a as a
00:12:37as a as a point and just blew the doors off in the second half, right?
00:12:41So what's good is again and I am going to sit here and I and I'm sure
00:12:46you both in your conversations with fans and people that you run into
00:12:49and you meet and talk with people are over them over the top.
00:12:54I get this all the time.
00:12:55Evan, are they what's going on this year?
00:12:57It doesn't seem like it's the same.
00:12:59What's going on?
00:12:59I'm like just calm down like they're going to be fine.
00:13:03They're one of the three best teams in the league.
00:13:05Those three teams OKC Cleveland and the Celtics I think are hovering
00:13:10in a significantly different stratosphere than the rest of the NBA.
00:13:13It's clearly those three teams and everybody else.
00:13:16Guess what?
00:13:16You're one of the three teams.
00:13:18And if you look at yourself, you look at Cleveland in a seven game series.
00:13:22We've seen this a couple of different times.
00:13:24Yeah, there's a new coach in Cleveland and Cleveland's playing really well.
00:13:28But you have to have a little bit of confidence that this team
00:13:30could beat them in a seven game series.
00:13:32And I feel like I'm not hearing that.
00:13:34And what's crazy to me and Greeney, I'll throw this to you
00:13:37because you deal with way more people on the.
00:13:39I was going to say, I have I'm like, I'm holding it in.
00:13:41I have gripes, but I'm holding it in.
00:13:43But it's like at the end of it all.
00:13:46Yeah, I know.
00:13:46The effort against Toronto is annoying and it is like totally get it.
00:13:51But at the same time, I'm like, look.
00:13:54Winning a championship is hard.
00:13:55Going back to back is even harder in this team in particular.
00:14:02Just every night, like not everybody's going to be super jacked up to play
00:14:06in Toronto.
00:14:07That was the very obvious, like not like there was all the rumors
00:14:10that, you know, Tatum and Brown might have been out the night before
00:14:12having some fun in Toronto.
00:14:13I mean, have a blast.
00:14:15But at the same time, I'm like, I'm not going to get super upset.
00:14:18It's January basketball.
00:14:20When when the trade deadline comes in, the All-Star break comes
00:14:25after the All-Star break.
00:14:26That's when you want to start tuning it up.
00:14:28March, April.
00:14:29Okay, January.
00:14:30We're in this weird.
00:14:31Just get me to the All-Star break.
00:14:33Let's have everybody go on vacation for a while.
00:14:36True holiday.
00:14:36Just take a nap for a week and a half.
00:14:38Al Horford, put yourself in a cryo-baric chamber.
00:14:41Like, I just think, Greeny, we forget that this team won the title
00:14:47last year with one of the most dominant regular seasons we've ever
00:14:50seen.
00:14:50OKC doing it this year.
00:14:52Look at that.
00:14:52And not every year is going to be like that.
00:14:56There's going to be struggles along the way.
00:14:58Just to remember, the Southerners still haven't lost three games in a
00:15:01row in over, like, two years here.
00:15:03Well, that's what I was going to say.
00:15:04It's actually, like, you say we have the sample.
00:15:08They won the title of our system and their approach being successful.
00:15:11It's longer than that, right?
00:15:13Like, they were pretty damn good making it to Game 7 of the Eastern
00:15:16Conference Finals, winning, what, 57 games the year before.
00:15:20So it's like, we have two and a half years, including a championship
00:15:24of scheme being a non-issue.
00:15:28And I think this is sort of what Kauffman was talking about.
00:15:31And honestly, it's one of the things that gaslights me more than
00:15:34anything else.
00:15:35It's like, every time they lose, the only thing you hear or struggle
00:15:40is, three points, volume, but they don't adjust.
00:15:43And it, like, it triggers me to a level that I didn't know was
00:15:46possible because the data completely contradicts it, right?
00:15:51If you look at just this stretch, and maybe this is because I heard
00:15:54Gaspar talking about this the other day, and it, like, it, like, sent
00:15:58me over the moon.
00:15:59This idea that, like, the Celtics don't adjust, don't adjust when the
00:16:04threes aren't falling is just factually inaccurate.
00:16:07If you look at this last 21-game stretch where they've been playing
00:16:11horrific basketball, the percentage of shots that are threes have
00:16:16drastically dipped from, like, 57 or 56% to 51%.
00:16:21The percentage of two-point field goals has drastically increased
00:16:26from, like, 43 to 47, 48%.
00:16:29Post-ups are way up. Elbow touches are way up. Restricted field
00:16:35goal attempts are way up.
00:16:36They're just missing them.
00:16:38So, like, in their loss against, I think it was either Sacramento
00:16:43or Toronto, they shot 44% on two-point field goals.
00:16:47They are adjusting.
00:16:49They aren't just spamming 50, 55 threes a night.
00:16:53That's not their issue.
00:16:54Their issue is, like, what Kauffman said.
00:16:56They're not engaged defensively.
00:16:58There's no effort to provide resistance.
00:17:00How many layups are we seeing them give up in these horrific losses,
00:17:05bad turnovers, careless mistakes with the basketball, where Derek
00:17:08White is, like, fumbling an inbounds pass or getting a five-second
00:17:12call? Like, those are the reasons that they're losing, not they take
00:17:16too many threes.
00:17:17It's, like, just because Felger says that on every show does not
00:17:20make it the truth.
00:17:21Like, you can actually watch them and understand how they play, and
00:17:26I think last night is a perfect example, right? Against Toronto,
00:17:29you had Tatum drawing contact, dishing to a corner three.
00:17:32They miss.
00:17:33That does not make that a bad possession.
00:17:36Last night, Tatum's drawing contact or traffic, Jalen's drawing
00:17:41defenders, kicking to a corner three.
00:17:43It goes in.
00:17:43The scheme is the same.
00:17:45The result is different.
00:17:46That doesn't mean the scheme was good against, you know, the magic,
00:17:51but bad against the Raptors.
00:17:52It is not based on the result.
00:17:54It's based on the process and how these shots are generated.
00:17:58And it's, like, it's baffling to me that we can be two and a half
00:18:01years into this style, into this system, and that concept is still
00:18:05so hard for people to grasp.
00:18:07They see, oh, 53s, they lost.
00:18:09Well, how were those threes generated?
00:18:11Were they all good looks?
00:18:12Were they just, you know, your best shooters unable to make a wide
00:18:15open three?
00:18:16If that's the case, then there's not a problem with how you're
00:18:19playing.
00:18:19It's just an execution issue.
00:18:21It's just, honestly, it, like, makes my blood boil because there
00:18:24just seems to be some resistance.
00:18:26It's like everyone is caught in their hot takes of year one of
00:18:31Missoula, and even though they've been proven wrong, they, like,
00:18:35can't accept it, and you're still hearing the same takes that we
00:18:38heard in 22-23.
00:18:40It makes no sense to me when we have hundreds of games of data,
00:18:45including high-leverage playoff games en route to a championship,
00:18:49which is the whole point.
00:18:51All of us, us three, we're all relatively the same age.
00:18:56We haven't seen this level of consistent winning since the bird
00:19:02era, right?
00:19:03Like, even the Garnett, Pierce, and KG big three did not win to
00:19:07the fashion and to the level that this group wins at, and it's
00:19:11like, instead of acknowledging that, we still want to get hung
00:19:14up on, well, you know, they take a lot of threes, haven't you
00:19:16heard? Who gives a shit?
00:19:18They make a ton of threes, and that opens up everything else,
00:19:21which makes them hard to guard.
00:19:22Like, I just can't understand the outrage.
00:19:25Let's take a quick break.
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00:21:26When you hear after the Toronto loss, stuff in the locker room
00:21:32about, you know, not just Porzingis again talking about the effort,
00:21:36but White or Mazzulla or guys, you know, talking about the
00:21:40just the stretch they've been in and and sort of leaving open
00:21:44the door.
00:21:45This is what, again, like, you know, talking heads want to
00:21:47grasp at for the sake of content, leaving open the door of
00:21:50like, is there an issue in the locker room? Is there a
00:21:53disconnection? Is there, you know, whatever it may be? Does
00:21:57any part of you and I, look, we're equally close to the team,
00:22:02the three of us, you know, none of us are, despite this being
00:22:05called Celtics beat, we're not beat reporters. We're not in
00:22:08the locker room. We don't have relationships with these guys
00:22:11to where we're getting all that inside dirt. And if there is
00:22:13any inside dirt, I, you know, nobody's writing about it.
00:22:16So, you know, I, I don't know either. Either there's a cover-up
00:22:20or it doesn't exist. And it's again, people grasp, grasping
00:22:23it at straws. But do you feel like there is something that
00:22:27looks off with this group that is largely the same group from
00:22:31last year and winning the title versus obviously last year was
00:22:34all happy-go-lucky because nothing went wrong. Like everybody
00:22:37generally stayed healthy. They won the league, clear 14 games
00:22:42in the regular season, wire to wire in the playoffs, no issues
00:22:46like last year was a freaking dream. This year, now that
00:22:50there's been just a, you know, kind of a hint of adversity for
00:22:53a few weeks and they don't definitively look like the class
00:22:57of the NBA, they're in the conversation, but they're not
00:23:00like, yes, of course, who else would challenge the Celtics?
00:23:03Who could possibly knock them off? Now, there's a team in
00:23:06front of them and a team in front of that one over in the
00:23:08Western Conference. Does anything look different to you
00:23:12with this group? I mean, they just couldn't make a shot.
00:23:16Like, I feel like everyone wants to overanalyze things and
00:23:19like, like you said, try to come up with some inner locker room
00:23:24turmoil. And like, obviously, I can't, none of us can say
00:23:28definitively. Yes, there is or no, there isn't, but I just
00:23:30look at their struggles on the court where their inability
00:23:35to make an open jump shot. So it's like, it's hard for me to
00:23:38say, oh, there's a rift in the locker room that's sparking
00:23:41some sort of decline when like, I'm still seeing them generate
00:23:45the same open looks. They just weren't going in. So it's like
00:23:48that happens sometimes. And last year, we didn't have a stretch
00:23:51like that. So there wasn't this weird, is there a locker room
00:23:54strife? Like, I don't know, teams go through slumps. They've
00:23:58shot that, like, did they seem connected to you last night?
00:24:01Yeah, why? Well, they shot like 46% from three, they saw the
00:24:05ball go in, they didn't, they weren't hanging their heads,
00:24:08they weren't, you know, dogging it on defense. It's like, if
00:24:12there's an issue in the locker room, how come it didn't prevent
00:24:15them from executing yesterday? So I always like, especially a
00:24:20team like this that has really not had any of those issues for
00:24:24the last two or three years. It's like, to me, it just seems
00:24:27like people didn't want to go with the boring explanation of
00:24:30oh, well, they're just not making shots and they're not
00:24:32defending to the level they need to. Instead, it has to be, oh,
00:24:36inner turmoil. This person doesn't like their role. They're
00:24:39tuning out the coach. Well, maybe it's just their best players
00:24:42are in a funk and Drew Holliday is shooting 20% from the corner
00:24:46and Derek White was nine for 30 from from the field over his
00:24:49last handful of games. Like, it's okay to say that can be
00:24:53the only issue. And as soon as that stops happening, they
00:24:56magically look like the team we've always seen. It's like,
00:24:59I don't know. I feel like it's more of an on-court execution
00:25:02issue than an off-the-court locker room turmoil issue
00:25:06because how they play, they're still passing the ball to each
00:25:10other. They're still, you know, you know, and I think poor
00:25:12Zingas, since he's got here, tells the truth. And I think
00:25:16that's what's so refreshing. It's like, he probably hasn't
00:25:19gotten the memo that you don't have to be so honest with the
00:25:22media because they did play uninspired, lazy, you know,
00:25:25soulless basketball. We all saw it. So it would be lying to
00:25:29be like, yeah, we gave a great effort tonight. No, you didn't
00:25:32like we all saw it, but I just I don't think that then leads
00:25:35to, you know, oh, they hate each other. No, you know, there's
00:25:39turmoil. The stress. I don't know. It's a long season.
00:25:42People have shit going on. They're just not making shots
00:25:44and that led to other parts of their game. As soon as the
00:25:48ball goes in, none of those things exist. I think that's
00:25:50pretty telling as to what the issue was. Yeah, it's it's
00:25:54just, again, watching the ball go through the net a couple
00:25:56of times fixes a lot of problems. And again, with the
00:25:59end of the day, this is the team that, you know, relies
00:26:01on jump shots. I'm not saying they don't, but when they go
00:26:04in, they're unstoppable. So we have a lot of evidence of
00:26:06that. I'm going to, I'm going to pivot here just because
00:26:10at this particular moment in time in this show, we've gone
00:26:12on quite a while. And this might be the last topic we have
00:26:15because I know green, he's going to, he's going to, he's
00:26:16going to take this one for a bit. So what I'm going to do
00:26:19here is we're going to just like last night where we had
00:26:21the ball at the top of the key. We spread the floor to one
00:26:23side. We let Jason Tatum go to work on Cole Anthony, who
00:26:27has no shot guarding Jason Tatum in the post. And I'm
00:26:30just going to lob this in for Dan. One of the biggest
00:26:33topics that's causing so much. Oh man, conversation is
00:26:40the usage of Jason Tatum in Boston's record when it's
00:26:43above a certain number. Now, I happen to agree with
00:26:48Greenberg that it's not just a number that we have
00:26:53to hit for the team to win the basketball game. It's
00:26:55the process by which it all occurs. But Dan, I'm going
00:27:00to, I'm going to clear out for you here. Okay. Yeah.
00:27:03Yeah. Go ahead. Take a swig of water. This is like
00:27:06a Grandy stat. It's been, it's been accumulating. I
00:27:09think Grady might've had it first or somebody had, maybe
00:27:12it's Dick light. I don't know. There's a lot of stat
00:27:14nerds and I appreciate everybody in the stat nerd
00:27:17category for, for carrying us this far, but there's a
00:27:21stat out there. Green. He's got it, but he has a
00:27:23little more nuance with it, with the Celtics record
00:27:26when Jason Tatum's usage percentage is above what?
00:27:2933% 34% something like that. They're like 43 an
00:27:32hour or something. Right. So I have a no something
00:27:34crazy while that's a crazy stat more of that, I
00:27:38guess. Right. Well, that's, that's the point. Why
00:27:43don't we take the time and you can talk to Kaufman
00:27:46directly because I can, I'm, I'm already on, on
00:27:48board here. Okay. I think you're absolutely correct
00:27:50on this. There's more nuance to this stat and people
00:27:54are thinking about, and I'd like to clear out, but
00:27:57you have the floor and explain to us why giving
00:28:01Jason Tatum, the ball a ton might not necessarily
00:28:04be the reason that why this team wins so much. So
00:28:07I'm just going to, so that's, so, so that's not
00:28:10exactly the crux of it. The crux of my issue is
00:28:15that people are disingenuously using this statistic.
00:28:20They're trying to use it. They're, they're struggling
00:28:23with the grasp that correlation does not equal
00:28:26causation. Right. When people think of usage and
00:28:30usage percentage, they're used. All right. This is
00:28:32going to like, you have to use the same word 10
00:28:34million times, but usage percentage is being
00:28:38categorized as how much Jason Tatum has the ball.
00:28:42Right. And like the idea that for the Celtics to
00:28:45be successful, he needs to have the ball more to
00:28:49increase his usage percentage, which isn't really
00:28:53what usage percentage calculates because here's a
00:28:57problem. Here's the crux of the entire issue. People,
00:29:01these people, these uses percentage, you know,
00:29:05weirdos only want Jason Tatum to have the ball and
00:29:08only want Jason Tatum to initiate. Okay, great.
00:29:10He's awesome at it. We can all agree that Jason Tatum
00:29:13having the ball is a good thing because he's really,
00:29:16really good. However, if there are possessions where
00:29:20they maybe run a high ball screen and Tatum passes
00:29:23the ball to a teammate that set that action is not
00:29:28recorded in usage percentage because the usage
00:29:31percentage only tracks plays that you are responsible
00:29:35for. So how many possessions ended in you taking
00:29:38a shot? How many possessions ended in you taking
00:29:41a free throw? How many possessions ended in you,
00:29:44you know, committing a turnover divided by your total
00:29:47number of possessions because you can't control
00:29:50what happens once you let go of the ball, right?
00:29:52So that isn't factored in to your usage percentage.
00:29:57So if I pass the ball to you Kaufman and you make
00:30:00or miss the shot that is recorded in your usage and
00:30:04not my usage. However, I was involved in the play
00:30:09in the offense. So this number is being framed
00:30:15that the higher Tatum's usage is the more he has
00:30:19the ball and things can run through Tatum. My
00:30:23stance is no Celtic on the team has the ball more
00:30:27than Tatum. No person on the team initiates offense
00:30:31more than Tatum. What they mean to say is we want
00:30:35Tatum to shoot more because having Tatum these
00:30:40plays that we see him initiate and pass to a teammate
00:30:44whether that ball goes in or not is not recorded
00:30:46in his usage percentage, but you could have a possession
00:30:50where like in the fourth quarter last night. He
00:30:53takes a contested three or contested follow-away
00:30:55whatever it doesn't go in. So in terms of the game
00:30:59it didn't help you but it bumps his usage percentage.
00:31:03So now we have these people who say look the Celtics
00:31:06blew them out and Tatum had a 30% usage percentage.
00:31:10You see if he has a 30% usage percentage, they're
00:31:13always going to win but that's not how it works
00:31:16because they only had that high usage percentage
00:31:19because you know, if he takes one or two less shots
00:31:22that he missed in the fourth quarter, he's at a 30%
00:31:26usage, which is his season average and the Celtics
00:31:28still win by 20 plus points. So it's like a false
00:31:32equivalency that yes, if Tatum is shooting a lot,
00:31:36he's probably going to make a lot and they're probably
00:31:38going to win if that happens, but that's not how
00:31:41they're using this stat. They're saying he needs
00:31:45the ball more and usage percentage is not an indicator
00:31:48of how much someone has the ball. It just tells you
00:31:52how many of his possessions did he shoot turn it
00:31:55over or take a free throw. So when we give it to Tatum
00:31:59in the fourth quarter to set things up and initiate
00:32:02offense every time he passes the ball and is involved
00:32:05in an action that's not part of his usage. So when
00:32:09you say to somebody no, no Tatum has the ball, you
00:32:12know 80 times a game. The next closest is 70 and
00:32:17it's a point guard. The idea that the Celtics aren't
00:32:20giving Tatum the ball enough just is factually
00:32:23inaccurate and you're using a statistic incorrectly
00:32:27to push a narrative that isn't even wrong. The idea
00:32:31that Tatum should have involvement in the offense
00:32:34is true. We all see it, but you can't ignore this
00:32:39involvement does not only mean shooting and if you're
00:32:43going to use usage percentage as your way to dictate
00:32:46involvement, you're only factoring in shooting, which
00:32:50is the antithesis of this whole operation because
00:32:53when Tatum has the ball in his hands, he will always
00:32:56make the right play. He's going to pass to the open
00:32:58guy. He's going to draw the defense in. Well, if I'm
00:33:01giving him the ball every single time in the fourth
00:33:04quarter and he's making the right play and guys are
00:33:07either making or missing shots. I can't evaluate his
00:33:12having the ball by usage and it's like it just really
00:33:15makes me upset that that like it's being used to cause
00:33:22a rift as opposed to saying, hey, you know, the team
00:33:27is good when Tatum shoots. Yes. The team is also good.
00:33:30Like now people are getting mad at like Peyton Pritchett
00:33:33for taking an open three or like for Derrick White
00:33:35for taking an open three all because it doesn't help
00:33:38Jason Tatum's usage and to me that is just so stupid
00:33:41when you've seen a level of winning sustained for
00:33:45two and a half years. We finally figured out a formula
00:33:48that unlocked this entire operation, but because he
00:33:52has a 30% usage as opposed to a 33% usage all hell
00:33:56has to break loose and we have to have a civil war
00:33:59between the two best players. It's just it's like
00:34:01it's honestly the dumbest argument we've ever had
00:34:04in the history of the Jays tenure in my opinion.
00:34:06Yeah, and I will say just in response to only some
00:34:10of that because there was a lot there people may not
00:34:14realize and I didn't realize till I just looked it
00:34:16up that in terms of because he would like he took
00:34:22crap and and for me as well about in that Toronto
00:34:25game when it felt like maybe they'll come back.
00:34:28Maybe they'll come back like Jason Tatum didn't
00:34:30take a shot in the entire fourth quarter, correct?
00:34:32So they look at that and they say, no, no, no,
00:34:35that like that part. I knew that part. I knew the
00:34:38part that I didn't realize was Jason Tatum last year
00:34:43average 19.3 shot attempts per game. That is the
00:34:47lowest number of field goal attempts for him on
00:34:50average in the last
00:34:55five years, including this year. He is shooting
00:34:57more this year than he did last year.
00:35:00Now, I realize people will put him in the MVP
00:35:04conversation this year or at least were as compared
00:35:07last year when he was sort of like on the outskirts
00:35:10of it. So you could say that he's having a more
00:35:13impactful year this year than last year in many
00:35:16categories. I mean the points are up rebounds are
00:35:20up assists are up blocks are comparable. Steals
00:35:23are up, you know, three-point percentage. Well,
00:35:26I guess that's down a little bit. But my point is
00:35:28like the shot volume is up like it's all up. Did
00:35:33anyone say like Jason Tatum was a problem last
00:35:36year? Were we sitting around talking about usage
00:35:39percentage last year? You know, I think they were
00:35:42finding a way to win just fine. And here's and
00:35:45you meant that that zero field goal fourth quarter
00:35:48is the perfect example because he had the ball a
00:35:51lot when you know, there are some possessions.
00:35:53He goes to the corner to maximize his gravity
00:35:55and to utilize the spacing. But if he doesn't
00:35:58take a shot, then he doesn't none of that is
00:36:01recorded in his usage, right? So they look at a
00:36:03game like that and say see you only had a 28%
00:36:06usage and they lost. Well, that doesn't mean he's
00:36:09not involved in the offense. And I think that is
00:36:12what makes that's what triggers me is they you
00:36:16they're trying to make a connection between
00:36:19involvement and usage, but usage doesn't include
00:36:2550% of involvement, which is passing that seems
00:36:30to be a pretty important statistic when we're
00:36:31talking about Jason Tatum considering he's your
00:36:34best passer on the team and that's what he does
00:36:37as an initiator. So should there ever be a quarter
00:36:41where he never takes a shot? Probably not, but
00:36:43that's also on him to be aggressive and find a way
00:36:47to get a jumper be take it to the rim, you know,
00:36:49don't be passive on certain possessions, but I
00:36:52think people see a quarter like that and they say
00:36:54look at see he's not even being used because
00:36:57they're using a metric that doesn't quantify
00:37:00other ways. He's being used in the quarters where
00:37:02he's not taking a shot. And I think that's the
00:37:04crux of the issue. I'm trying to find the stack
00:37:07because it went around. I want to say last week,
00:37:11maybe this week and I don't know that I'll
00:37:12look at it at this point, but the number that I
00:37:15think people should focus more on term evaluating
00:37:18Jason Tatum and how offense this offense is
00:37:20performing around Tatum and they're just performance
00:37:23in general is look at the difference between
00:37:25Tatum's potential assist and his actual assist
00:37:27number because that is that is the number that
00:37:30really kills me because it's like, oh my God
00:37:32Tatum had like 19 potential. So it was it was
00:37:35like a four game. I tweeted out. It was like a
00:37:38four game stretch not too long ago. He had 34
00:37:41potential assists and 13 actual assists. Yeah,
00:37:44like that's the number, right? That's the only
00:37:46number you should all care about is like the
00:37:48because he's clearly initiating the offense and
00:37:51doing giving the game exactly what it needs is
00:37:54just guys are not that none of that is included
00:37:57in usage percentage and had those guys hit. I
00:38:01don't know a handful of those open looks the
00:38:04Celtics probably win those games that they dropped
00:38:06and none of this is an issue. So like that's
00:38:09just where it's just all of this stuff is publicly
00:38:12available. Like it's free just Google it and yet
00:38:15instead it has to turn into some sort of usage
00:38:18war and then Missoula doesn't know what the hell
00:38:20he's doing and the system is flawed and they're
00:38:22Tatum's going to demand a trade because they're
00:38:24not treating them like every other superstar in
00:38:26the NBA. It's like what I just like it. It just
00:38:31bore. It just boggles my mind. It's like we're
00:38:33all watching the same game. We all see Tatum
00:38:35have the ball more than every single Celtic on
00:38:38the team by a wide margin. So how can you then
00:38:41say he doesn't have the ball enough when nobody
00:38:44has a more? It's like he has the fifth most
00:38:47touches in the entire NBA. What do we want? Like
00:38:52you're he's obviously like I think he only trails
00:38:55like yolk itch who doesn't have like obviously
00:38:58he's the only one on that team. Like he has 12
00:39:02more touches per game than SGA who's the leading
00:39:04MVP candidate, right? He has more touches than
00:39:07Giannis more like go up and down the list. He
00:39:10has the ball more than all of these people. So
00:39:12I just can't understand how we watch that happen
00:39:16yet. The conclusion is, you know, he's not being
00:39:19utilized and given the ball enough in their
00:39:22system when he is the system. He is the sun that
00:39:27all planets orbit around and it's been that way
00:39:30for two plus years. I just it sends me over the
00:39:33moon. Well, and also like you're, you know, this
00:39:36wasn't really your point at all, but you
00:39:40acknowledge like is it like is Tatum unhappy
00:39:43that are you saying they're going to have to
00:39:44trade them? Like do people not see what goes on
00:39:47around the rest of the NBA to like the Jimmy
00:39:51Butler situation in Miami where he openly wants
00:39:55out or you know, Joel Embiid not long ago, like
00:40:00calling out Philadelphia fans for the way that
00:40:02he is treated like stars around the league and
00:40:05we see it. This is not a new thing, you know,
00:40:08like Durant or Kawhi or Kyrie Irving or like, I
00:40:13mean Harden like the list goes on and on of just
00:40:16like disgruntled dudes that want out of their
00:40:19current situation. Jason Tatum. I mean he has
00:40:23he ever ever one time in nearly a decade in
00:40:28Boston. Even hinted at any level of unhappiness
00:40:34with his situation or his place or where he
00:40:38wants to be or what he wants to achieve as a
00:40:41Celtic not just in his career, but specifically
00:40:44in Boston and is you know, like why this is why
00:40:47we can't have nice things like what like what
00:40:51are we trying to put a project upon this guy?
00:40:54Not we not the three of us but people like what
00:40:58are I just don't understand what it is that
00:41:01people are looking for at a certain point. You
00:41:05can't win every game. You can't win every game,
00:41:09right? Like you're you're gonna you're gonna
00:41:12lose. You're gonna have some some losses that
00:41:15you should like. I'm sure even the 73 win
00:41:18Warriors or what the Bulls win 72 like I bet
00:41:22in those 1011 losses that those teams had there
00:41:26was probably one or two. They shouldn't have
00:41:28at least like it. It happens. It happens on the
00:41:32way to a championship Celtic. Certainly if we
00:41:34were to comb through last year's schedule, it
00:41:37wouldn't be too difficult to find a handful of
00:41:39games that they should have won. I mean that
00:41:41that Atlanta one still rings in my brain as one
00:41:45that like pissed me off to no end didn't matter.
00:41:48It didn't matter like they want a championship
00:41:52like what what are we doing? One more break.
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00:43:47It's very funny. It's like every year if you
00:43:49say, okay, how many games you think the Celtics
00:43:51will win? They'll say, oh, you know 60 63 64.
00:43:55It's like okay. So you're saying they're probably
00:43:57going to lose anywhere between 18 and 22 games.
00:44:01Yeah. Yeah, that'd be a really successful season.
00:44:03Okay, but then when they are on when they lose
00:44:06a game to get to that 18 to 20 all hell has to
00:44:11break loose. Well, it's like hold on a second.
00:44:13You said that you expect the Celtics to lose
00:44:16around 20 times this year. So why are you getting
00:44:19bent out of shape when they lose a game if no
00:44:22team goes undefeated and yes, there are going
00:44:24to be some that they shouldn't but like, okay,
00:44:27there are going to be some games. They win that
00:44:29they probably shouldn't have one like that's
00:44:31basketball. That's what happens things, you know
00:44:34teams get hot guys go on a heater like that's
00:44:37just sports. They're 29 and 12, right? That's
00:44:41what we did 60s wins. If any of you out there
00:44:44watching or listening watching especially because
00:44:47I'm looking right into my camera deep into your
00:44:50soul. If anyone has an issue with 29 and 18 or
00:44:53even generally with with the you could take issue
00:44:57with the way they're playing right now. It's
00:44:59been inconsistent. It's been a little problematic
00:45:01but strategically if you take issue with the
00:45:04overall strategy of the Boston Celtics the Gotham
00:45:07to a title last year and is by a comfortable
00:45:10margin and is sitting here right now at 29 and
00:45:1312 with with no real future concerns F yourselves
00:45:18like what true like what do you want go root
00:45:22for the freaking Hornets go like they have a
00:45:24plus they have a plus 9.2 point differential.
00:45:27They're beating teams on average by nearly double
00:45:29digits every night. That's extremely hard to do
00:45:34and yet, you know, I think people are struggling
00:45:37to separate being annoyed with how they're currently
00:45:40playing right and the product that they're putting
00:45:42out and then that being a referendum on their
00:45:46approach their scheme and who they are as a team
00:45:48like you can think that they're playing like crap
00:45:51right now and they're putting out a you know,
00:45:54inexcusable effort, but that does not mean their
00:45:57system like you said in the scheme is wrong and
00:46:00it does not mean that they're a play in team.
00:46:02They have the third best record in the league with
00:46:06the third best point differential in the league
00:46:09had those two other teams not been having historic
00:46:11season. You would be having the best record in the
00:46:15league. So it's like I I'm a Patriots fan. I am
00:46:18not happy with where the Patriots are as an organization,
00:46:21but what I am happy about is at least we have the
00:46:24dichotomy of what 20 years of dominance and taking
00:46:27things for granted looks like compared to where
00:46:30things have been for the last handful of years to
00:46:33serve as a reminder to people out there that this
00:46:37doesn't last forever. This is going to come down
00:46:41at some point probably sooner than later whether
00:46:44because of an injury or whether because of you know,
00:46:48new ownership, whomever it winds up being doesn't
00:46:50want to foot the giant bill that current group has
00:46:54set up for years to come or someone will want to
00:46:57go cash in elsewhere, whatever it may be.
00:47:01This doesn't last like that clear evident. I talk
00:47:04about this constantly on this show. It's the only
00:47:07reason that we are able to like survive a weekly
00:47:10show as one that doesn't, you know, like like
00:47:14Corrales go every day and and like story coming
00:47:17out of this game and let's look at the next one.
00:47:19The the day-by-day minutiae of a team like that's
00:47:22fine. If you want that there are places for that.
00:47:24This is a big picture show and in a big picture
00:47:27show you couldn't go week to week without at least
00:47:30every once in a while reminding people it's okay
00:47:33to enjoy the journey. You want to quibble and
00:47:35nitpick at some things along the way that are
00:47:37worth discussing as we have been doing on this show
00:47:40and we do every week by all means.
00:47:43But you really get the sense that who didn't live
00:47:46through the Rick Pitino era, you know, like, how
00:47:50am I going to get so worked up over a defending
00:47:52champion? That's 29 and 12 when my entire fanhood
00:47:56was molded by praying. They win 34 games.
00:48:01Like yeah, I mean, you know, Jim O'Brien is
00:48:03something a little similar here. Like you guys
00:48:05didn't watch Mark Blount, right? Like you haven't
00:48:08seen Baker or anything like that.
00:48:09Make sure yourself that Vitaly Potemko was an
00:48:10answer. Like, you don't know struggle.
00:48:12There's no more champion here than any team in NBA
00:48:14history and there is still not a month that goes
00:48:17by in my life where at least there isn't at least
00:48:20like a little flicker of, man, I can't believe
00:48:22they missed out on Tim Duncan that year.
00:48:24You know what I mean? Like, that's what I mean.
00:48:26It's okay to be annoyed when they play like shit.
00:48:28We all can see it. It's an undeniable, you know,
00:48:32disaster when it's on your TV screen, but it's
00:48:35also okay to take a step back and have perspective
00:48:37of like, you know what? This team's still pretty
00:48:40freaking good. They're just, you know, they just
00:48:42played poorly in this specific instance, but even
00:48:45them playing poorly does not compare to the hell
00:48:49that we have been through. And like we finally
00:48:52made it through the pearly gates and now that's
00:48:54still not good enough all because of a shooting
00:48:57slump. It's just like, it's like I get it. We're
00:49:01mass holes. We want to overreact. We want to do
00:49:03it, but you can also have perspective and like
00:49:06remain on planet Earth and, you know, not go
00:49:09overboard just for the dramatics or to be a doomer
00:49:13or whatever. Like we're past that. They won the
00:49:17title. Like I could understand if they fell short
00:49:20and they were doing this, but that's not what
00:49:22happened. They got it done. They did it. They got
00:49:25over the hump. So it's like just relax. They'll
00:49:29figure it out. They're too good not to. I just
00:49:32want to just take a minute because I know we're
00:49:34running out of time here and we haven't addressed
00:49:35this yet. And anytime that this particular stat
00:49:38happens, you should probably address it real
00:49:39quick. Just going to throw this out there. NBA
00:49:42most points at age 26, Jason Tatum, 12,908, Michael
00:49:47Jordan, 12,908 and Tatum has more games to go.
00:49:50So he's going to have more points than Michael
00:49:52Jordan is the greatest ever do it. I just want
00:49:53to, I just want to make sure that we acknowledge
00:49:56the fact that Tatum is going to pass MJ, Bob
00:49:59McAdoo, and maybe an outside shot at will
00:50:02Chamberlain before he turns 27. There's a lot
00:50:06to play, not to play devil's advocate, but we're
00:50:09being fair. What's the, what's the game? Because
00:50:11he's going to play longer. Not what's the game's
00:50:14not because he's going to average more points
00:50:15than I, I, I understand. I understand that. I
00:50:18get it. I get it. Jordan was older. All totally
00:50:20understandable. He was, it was an older guy
00:50:22coming out of college. I understand that. How
00:50:25many guys in NBA history have more points than
00:50:28Michael Jordan? Well, it's fair enough. It's a
00:50:31decent number. I'm look, I'm just pointing it
00:50:33out. That's all. I'm just, I get it. You guys
00:50:35are coming at me with nuance and bullshit. I
00:50:37understand. I'm just pointing out that chain of
00:50:39last night type Michael Jordan. That's usually
00:50:41pretty good size. Here's a better question. He
00:50:44needs to, he needs to about double his production,
00:50:47but do you think he passes Paul Pierce for the
00:50:49most points ever scored in TD garden? Pierce had
00:50:52about 12, Pierce had about 12,000 Tatum has about
00:50:56six and change and Jalen has about 56 and change.
00:50:59Yeah, he's going to. I don't even think that's a
00:51:02question. I think it's most points in NBA history in
00:51:06order. As we know, LeBron who continues to play as
00:51:09the record holder by about 2500 right now and
00:51:12counting followed by Kareem Karl Malone, who I
00:51:16think a lot of people forget about in that
00:51:17conversation, Kobe Bryant, and then you get to
00:51:20Jordan. Yeah. So it's Durant Durant, by the way,
00:51:25how old is Durant? 35. Yeah. 35. 36. Yeah. Somewhere
00:51:29in there. Durant is uh 2007 draft Durant. Durant's
00:51:34only about 2500 behind Jordan. Yeah, there you go.
00:51:38That's I mean, Durant's one of the best scoring for
00:51:40it. I've ever seen. So, but I'm just again pointing
00:51:42it out. He's, he's, I would Jordan into Green's
00:51:45company. Yeah. Green's point leading score at NBA
00:51:48history is Carmelo Anthony. I don't know how many
00:51:50people realize that. So, so I'm, I'm as a
00:51:53neurologist, uh, I, there is, there is nuance to
00:51:56this conversation, but even I kinda like the, I like
00:51:59the Tatum most point playoff points in NBA history
00:52:02before 27 more than that one because that just
00:52:04tells you he, he wins at a high level for in big
00:52:07games. Consistently. That's, that's what I care
00:52:09about more than, than overall in big games for
00:52:12sure. Uh, just to real quick on that stat Pierce
00:52:15in his, uh, TD garden history, 12,157 points Tatum
00:52:226,342 points. Yeah. So he's gotta like double it.
00:52:25Pretty much. Yeah. It's he'll get there. Listen,
00:52:27easier said than done. I realized because we all
00:52:30like to live in this world where, you know, your
00:52:33favorite players don't leave town, but that's what
00:52:35I mean. He needs like 15. He needs like 15 years
00:52:38to remain a Celtic. Yeah. That's why I'm, that's
00:52:40why I find that curious of like, you know, and
00:52:43then I looked it up, you know, Larry only had
00:52:44like 11,000 and change at the old garden. Like I
00:52:47don't think people put enough respect on Paul
00:52:49Pierce's name for what? Oh, definitely not. The
00:52:52people do not. People don't appreciate it because
00:52:55Paul, Paul, the rest of them, Pierce's Pierce's
00:53:00game did not, has not aged well with the young
00:53:03crowd because they just totally forget how dominant
00:53:05he was back in the day. And it wasn't sexy
00:53:08points in your own building is like, that's an
00:53:10insane amount of longevity and consistency. A lot
00:53:13of buckets. Yeah. Well, Grandy, you know, we were
00:53:16talking about stat nerds, you know, you mentioned
00:53:18Grandy. Grandy had the stat, uh, what last night
00:53:21earlier today. I'll, I mean, it doesn't do much
00:53:24for me, but a lot of his stats do this one, you
00:53:26know, doesn't, but, uh, it was, I'm just pulling
00:53:32it up with 20 points tonight in the wind. Jalen
00:53:37Brown passed Antoine Walker. Only Paul Pierce and
00:53:40Jason Tatum have scored more points in his league
00:53:42of TD garden. So Jalen is, is, you know, right
00:53:45there is right there about 800 behind Tatum. I
00:53:50mean, timers were watching generational. I mean,
00:53:54both the title secure their numbers going up, but
00:53:57I think again, take a step back and understand
00:54:00what you're seeing between two guys. You're lucky
00:54:03to get one franchise player like this, right? To
00:54:07to, to nail it in consecutive drafts like that.
00:54:11And for both to blossom into what we're seeing
00:54:14has to be a statistical anomaly. It really does.
00:54:18Like you're watching two of the greatest Celtics
00:54:21when it's all said and done. I mean, I think as
00:54:23of now you can make the case that Tatum's already,
00:54:26you know, if you project his production, like his
00:54:29average, you know, he's just stays at this level
00:54:32for his Celtics career, if not better. I mean,
00:54:35he's arguably the third best Celtic of all time.
00:54:38And I don't even think that's a hot take. He'll
00:54:40get there. So to even my whole life, if he sticks
00:54:44around and stays healthy, that's what I mean. If
00:54:46he stays healthy, you know, he'll be the all-time
00:54:49leading scorer in Celtics history. Exactly that
00:54:52he'll have, you know, because for me right now,
00:54:54that's that's Paul Pierce is that is at four, right?
00:54:58I think this title like you have him ahead of
00:55:03Paul, I think because his numbers are going to
00:55:06be better than Paul. Like Tatum's peak is has been
00:55:08better than Paul's peak. I think the counting
00:55:10numbers will be there. I think numbers the big
00:55:13thing that works for Tatum is that Paul only
00:55:16won one, right? So I think if Tatum gets to it's
00:55:20undoubted. He's undoubtedly number four. I think
00:55:23once he gets his doesn't or even if he doesn't
00:55:26if you wanted to put him there now, you probably
00:55:27could if his production matches if he gets like
00:55:31I just think a lot of the old heads are not ready
00:55:34to have the conversation that Tatum is playing
00:55:37his way into being, you know, a top on the Mount
00:55:40Rushmore. Yeah, I'm the season out Rushmore like
00:55:44you never get, you know, my whole life like Paul
00:55:47Pierce was my favorite Celtic ever. He was my
00:55:49generation's Larry Bird, but I had to wait like
00:55:53my entire life for him to finally win a title.
00:55:55So it's like I never could could like process
00:55:59what it was like to have a Larry Bird a John
00:56:02Havlicek a bill because like, you know, I didn't
00:56:05know winning like that. So to now get a player
00:56:08that is winning at a high level and producing
00:56:11at an all-time level is like, please take a step
00:56:14back and appreciate what we are witnessing in
00:56:16terms of Celtics history because there have not
00:56:19every day dick like tweets that Jason Tatum has
00:56:22done some shit not seen since Larry Bird like
00:56:24this is not normal what we are seeing from him
00:56:27and Jalen isn't too far behind and I just think
00:56:30people need to understand that it's very rare
00:56:33what we get to experience. Well, listen Greeney
00:56:36called the win the dominating. Throttling of the
00:56:42magic a cathartic experience. I got to be honest.
00:56:47I didn't know I needed this show quite the way
00:56:49that I did but this is this has been for me a
00:56:51cathartic experience. One of the good both of you
00:56:55Dan Greenberg again barstool sports and and
00:56:58Evan Valenti. I am Adam Kaufman. We've we've
00:57:01gone on for a little while, but I think it's
00:57:02been a fun one. I think everyone out there needed
00:57:05it. I only hope that you know, the Celtics don't
00:57:08go out lose by 15 to the Hawks and then you listen
00:57:10to this show because I'll come back and we'll do
00:57:13the Doomer version if you want. Yeah, we'll do
00:57:17the side. Choose your own adventure. You know,
00:57:18do you want to you want the good good vibes
00:57:20show or the bad vibe show after they lose the
00:57:22Hawks? Can I just do it real quick? You got a
00:57:25shout out my guy Pete Rogers. If people are
00:57:27watching sent me the pink lemonade Jason Tatum
00:57:31jersey again via Pete Rogers. I have the
00:57:34catch down here Phantom 18. Nice got a shot
00:57:37him out. Excellent stuff. I couldn't be happier
00:57:41with this jersey fits unbelievably. Well, super
00:57:43comfortable best colorway. I've ever seen the
00:57:47absolute legend. That is Pete Rogers. We love
00:57:50that guy in the show. All three of us are huge
00:57:52fans. It was to be in charge of designing. I
00:57:55could say this all the time. He definitely needs
00:57:57to. Yeah, he needs. I mean, I don't know. Like
00:58:01I guess in what he does and sort of where we're
00:58:05at in the world. Like it just makes the most
00:58:07sense to have a, you know, a digital shop, a
00:58:09digital Marketplace. But like that dude needs a
00:58:12store. Like he needs, he needs like a no Nike
00:58:16Nike. He needs to hire and I can eat Rogers
00:58:19bro. No question storefront. Like when you I
00:58:21mean, I don't know. I've been to a mall in years
00:58:24but like when you go into like a Foot Locker or
00:58:26one of those places that assuming they still
00:58:28exist, you need to like there needs to just be a
00:58:31whole freaking section of these Pete Rogers Celtics
00:58:35designs because yeah, I mean they are heaters
00:58:38honestly, but like I don't understand why they
00:58:40don't just use like take his examples and use it
00:58:43as a mood board to inspire because like looking
00:58:46at what like what you're wearing is unbelievable
00:58:49his other ones and then you compare it to what
00:58:51we're getting from that key. It's like how are
00:58:54these people? It almost feels intentional. Like
00:58:58what are we getting such disgusting alternate
00:59:00jerseys when it's possible to create really cool
00:59:02ones. I don't get it. He's done it for like two
00:59:04straight years. It's incredible. Yeah, he's
00:59:06unbelievable on the pod Pete. I can work on that.
00:59:09Don't worry about that. That's not a problem.
00:59:10You know, let's get Pete on the pod or I mean
00:59:12like Jenny like like I've said, this is January
00:59:15basketball. I think we can we can take a week
00:59:19off from talking to beat guys and people cover
00:59:21the team and have Pete on the pod. We need to
00:59:23do that for sure. Pete you listening out there.
00:59:26Let's have you on bud. All right for for greenie
00:59:29for Ev. I'm Adam everyone. Enjoy the football
00:59:31this weekend. I'm sure greenie will be paying
00:59:35no attention to it. Maybe maybe a little mistake
00:59:38was playing but that's it. It's it's there
00:59:41football today. There's a Celtics game at seven
00:59:43o'clock. I don't even know that it's Celtics
00:59:45basketball for greenie. We'll talk to you guys
00:59:48again soon. Hi guys.