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00:00:00and racetrack.
00:00:06So thank you for joining us again on Manhood.
00:00:10We've had so many really great conversations.
00:00:13Some have been absolutely epic.
00:00:16And you think you go into this subject knowing,
00:00:18having done your research,
00:00:20and then you come out of it with so much more knowledge
00:00:22and a whole other point of view,
00:00:24which is really good and which is what the show is about.
00:00:26We're not here to give our own opinions.
00:00:28We're here as a few persons talking to everyone.
00:00:32And once again, I'm delighted to have another female on Manhood.
00:00:37And let me do the introductions once again.
00:00:39Johansi Aoudike, Behavior Change Consultant.
00:00:42Shireen Pollard, really happy to have her finally in the seat at Manhood.
00:00:48Good to be here, thank you.
00:00:49Manager of Gender-Based Violence at the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
00:00:53And Thaddeus, Thaddeboom, entertainer, singer, actor, you name it, he's done it.
00:01:01Thaddeus, it's really good to have you together.
00:01:03A whole other perspective.
00:01:03Blessings, man.
00:01:05And from also a generational perspective, which is really great.
00:01:08You know, one of the things we want to make sure we're meeting everyone,
00:01:11where they're at, and to meet them where they're at,
00:01:13you have to be in that place.
00:01:15So, I would say, I don't know.
00:01:19I mean, I don't want to call anybody by age,
00:01:20but I think that we have a good, you know, a lot of diversity here.
00:01:25I don't know what calling people by age.
00:01:26I'm 21.
00:01:27That is truth.
00:01:27That is truth.
00:01:28I'm 21.
00:01:29Of course.
00:01:30So, you know, again, as we are Manhood,
00:01:32it's all about being very open, very straightforward.
00:01:36There's no cover for your mouth, as they say.
00:01:39And today's topic.
00:01:42No cover?
00:01:43No cover.
00:01:43No cover.
00:01:44There'll be for that.
00:01:46There'll be for that.
00:01:47So, you know, we're always very respectful of Tat, of course.
00:01:50Tat, one of the things that is a burning topic, you know,
00:01:55I marinated so much as to how do we bring all this entire conversation
00:02:02into like a melting pot.
00:02:04And, you know, Shereen and I have had many a conversation
00:02:07that actually was part of starting off Manhood in the first place.
00:02:09And the subject or the topic I came up with with the phrase is just say no.
00:02:17And in just saying no, you immediately go to the space of a woman and a man,
00:02:23or man and a man, or woman and a woman, basically sexual interaction.
00:02:27And that's where it normally comes from.
00:02:29We're going to talk about it across the gamut,
00:02:31what it means to really just say no.
00:02:34And that means the burning topic that most women have on their lips and men to a certain extent.
00:02:41Equality, equity, all of it.
00:02:44I'm just going to do like, you know, I just want to really sit back in this one
00:02:48and just enjoy the conversation.
00:02:51All right.
00:02:51And.
00:02:53All right.
00:02:53So you threw out just say no.
00:02:55Just say no.
00:02:56And then you threw out equality versus equity.
00:02:58So just a bit of context.
00:03:00So the old just say no, apart from what's going to be discussing it with regards to sex.
00:03:04And when a woman says no, she really means no.
00:03:07And we're going into all the chivalry, dead, dating, all of these different things.
00:03:11They just say no with regards to equality.
00:03:13Right.
00:03:14Is women in what may be considered in a male-dominated environment and what women really want.
00:03:22And part of that, as we quote our good friend, Dr. Jordan Peterson,
00:03:26is women, for the most part, are the gender that's more agreeable.
00:03:30Okay.
00:03:31I know you're waiting to fire.
00:03:34But notice how you might set it in context, what Dr. Jordan Peterson said.
00:03:36No, I don't disagree.
00:03:39Women are more agreeable.
00:03:40And as a result, in order to be able to get to those positions, they have to do what men themselves may be open or committed to doing.
00:03:50So working 80-hour weeks to be entirely focused, give up everything that you can to get those particular jobs.
00:03:57If a woman wants to also achieve that, she has to be almost take on those male traits and just say no to being so agreeable.
00:04:07So I'm just, again, Dr. Jordan Peterson, I'm just putting that out there and let's go.
00:04:15All right.
00:04:15So I can start.
00:04:16Women being more agreeable.
00:04:18I agree with that because generally women tend to make decisions based on emotion more than logic.
00:04:26So if we go in agreeable, then you would think about, well, how the person might feel, you know, if it might look bad, et cetera, et cetera.
00:04:33So even when negotiating, because I remember the example he gave was when women negotiate in salary.
00:04:39Most women don't negotiate well because they're wondering, they're even thinking about the company, like, if the company have enough money, can they pay me how it might look?
00:04:48Versus a man saying, there's a job I'm doing, you either pay me or you don't pay me.
00:04:52So generally, I would agree with what Jordan Peterson is saying that women are more agreeable in general.
00:04:57And that's why sometimes women do succeed in the workplace because the things a man might be, I might ask for, even have the bulls, the bulls, pun intended, right?
00:05:09To ask for a woman may not be well.
00:05:12You know, I just want to interject there.
00:05:14Your name is not Shireen.
00:05:15Well, no, but I'm just dead.
00:05:18Okay, go ahead.
00:05:18I know ladies are always first, right?
00:05:22But I just want to, I just want, it's just when he made the analogy to, you know, don't have the bulls.
00:05:28And it's just always a pet peeve you've ever had that, you know, where, where did that ever come from?
00:05:33You don't have the bulls to do something.
00:05:34You know, let's say, go on, it's testicular fortitude.
00:05:37But, you know, you kick a man in the bulls.
00:05:40That's not like an Achilles heel.
00:05:42You go down on the ground, so the bulls, the whole fact that you're using that as a position, you know, a...
00:05:48Indicator of power somehow.
00:05:50And again, in case of power, is a bit of an oxymoron.
00:05:54Yes and no.
00:05:55I don't think it's power, though, but...
00:05:56Let me tell you why.
00:05:57Unless you see an argument.
00:05:57If you're saying...
00:05:58Let me tell you, you see that argument, what you say there?
00:06:00That argument actually came from a woman.
00:06:02So what you're doing is parroting the argument of a woman.
00:06:04That's one, eh?
00:06:05Right, right.
00:06:05Two.
00:06:06Two is that it came from, and it could be erroneous.
00:06:09Which is not so bad, parroting an argument of a woman.
00:06:11That's not...
00:06:12I ain't say it was bad, eh?
00:06:14I ain't say it was bad, eh?
00:06:16I ain't say it was bad.
00:06:17It is.
00:06:20Just hide it a little bit.
00:06:22I ain't say it was bad.
00:06:24The man ain't say that at all, eh?
00:06:25That was an insinuation, eh?
00:06:28Which sometimes women jump to in terms of conclusions.
00:06:31Oh my goodness.
00:06:31Right?
00:06:32Somebody feminine.
00:06:34I want to challenge something as we continue.
00:06:38I want to count how many times you say some women
00:06:41before you start a sentence in this discussion.
00:06:44Okay.
00:06:44And tell me if that's just not very much a generalization.
00:06:50So is it that you feel that you maybe know enough
00:06:55or have done enough research or has had enough life experience
00:06:57to be able to say confidently,
00:07:00this is what some women do.
00:07:03I'm just saying.
00:07:04Do you prefer to say a percentage of women?
00:07:06I prefer not to speak on behalf of women, so...
00:07:09Listen, let's just drop you.
00:07:11Well, okay.
00:07:12I will consider what you're saying before I say it.
00:07:16I'll consider that before I say it.
00:07:18But I like what you said in terms of percentage.
00:07:20So let me go back to the point you were saying about...
00:07:22That term came from because, in general,
00:07:31it was generally thought that a man was more assertive in certain actions
00:07:34and a man in terms of physical aggression and action.
00:07:38So when you use...
00:07:39Even though I agree, a vagina, by technicality, is stronger.
00:07:44Physiology, a vagina is stronger than...
00:07:47So I get what you're saying.
00:07:48But that's not the context it was using.
00:07:50It's more in terms of the masculine energy and aggression and assertion.
00:07:54You're talking about a man.
00:07:56Correct.
00:07:57So I'll see it as...
00:07:58So before that analogy came up and I interjected,
00:08:03I apologize, you were making a point.
00:08:05I'm trying to remember now.
00:08:07To come to your hands.
00:08:08We were talking about a woman being more agreeable.
00:08:11Oh, right, a woman being more agreeable.
00:08:13So I think it's society's expectations
00:08:15and the roles that are placed on women
00:08:18that makes them more agreeable.
00:08:20So if you look at the roles that they're placed in, right?
00:08:22So motherhood, they automatically, you know,
00:08:24become agreeable to some extent.
00:08:27You know, I guess taking care of a house, right?
00:08:30So you become more agreeable that way.
00:08:32Women were generally, with the new force as well,
00:08:36started off in these support positions, right?
00:08:38So when you're in these support positions,
00:08:40you're like, okay, yes, whatever you mean, that kind of thing.
00:08:42So I think it's a societal kind of expectation on women
00:08:46that women have adopted.
00:08:47And it's not necessarily wrong.
00:08:49It's just that society has just evolved, right?
00:08:53But I hear what you're saying in terms of maybe women
00:08:57not negotiating for a better salary
00:09:01because they're worried about the organization
00:09:04not having enough money.
00:09:05I can very much say I've never cared about
00:09:08an organization's budget
00:09:11when it came to negotiating my salary.
00:09:14And I hear what you're saying,
00:09:16but on the other spectrum of that,
00:09:19there are women who really, within the workplace,
00:09:22it's very difficult to get that kind of equity
00:09:25as it relates to pay.
00:09:27In a job that I very recently had...
00:09:30Call names now.
00:09:31No, no, no, I can't do that.
00:09:32Okay, close.
00:09:33You know, I learned that myself and a male counterpart,
00:09:39we both came into the organization at the same time,
00:09:41and he received a significant amount more money than I did,
00:09:47and we had almost the exact qualifications.
00:09:50And you attributed that immediately
00:09:52to the fact that he was a male?
00:09:54Absolutely, 100%.
00:09:55What was the actual reason why?
00:09:57Probably he was greasing something on that table.
00:09:59What was the actual proven reason why?
00:10:00And I believe it's that because, as well,
00:10:02my background is in law enforcement,
00:10:07in child protection, and that sort of thing.
00:10:08So it's all very heavily male-dominated.
00:10:11Belief is that we can't see.
00:10:13Exactly.
00:10:14Belief is perception.
00:10:15Lack of empirical evidence.
00:10:17I am telling you.
00:10:18Oh, that's what...
00:10:19The same way he can say something,
00:10:20but it's the same way I'm saying.
00:10:23That's the front thing.
00:10:25That's the front thing.
00:10:26That's the front thing.
00:10:26That don't balance out.
00:10:28So it didn't take to ask him?
00:10:30No, because I wasn't in a position to do that,
00:10:32and just it wouldn't look right, you know,
00:10:34being still employed there.
00:10:35So it's kind of just something that you have to kind of take and swallow.
00:10:36You see what she said?
00:10:37They wouldn't look right.
00:10:39That's an example of the agreeableness.
00:10:41Because a man might say,
00:10:42I hear about this man getting more money.
00:10:43But don't you get more money?
00:10:44I want to find one day.
00:10:46So you understand where the agreeableness comes in.
00:10:48In a corporate environment, you wouldn't do that.
00:10:50In a white environment.
00:10:52You wouldn't.
00:10:52No.
00:10:53I think it depends on the internet.
00:10:55Agreeableness.
00:10:56I think it depends on the corporate, yes.
00:10:58It's an assumption, because he's male.
00:11:00And I think that there are many situations that...
00:11:03See, see.
00:11:03I take your point,
00:11:04but I think that there are many situations where...
00:11:07And I asked the question up to this morning.
00:11:10I said, you know, I asked a woman,
00:11:11I said, when you're going for a job,
00:11:13a particular job,
00:11:14and remember we put it in context of,
00:11:16in particular environments,
00:11:18and I think even in Jordan Peterson's case,
00:11:21he spoke about the example in Scandinavia,
00:11:26where in a natural order of things,
00:11:28when people had their own decisions to be made,
00:11:30females gravitated to jobs that were...
00:11:33Support-based.
00:11:34Support-based.
00:11:36Emotion-based.
00:11:38Went to a position of being an engineer.
00:11:40Is it then that women are looking in...
00:11:43I'm not even using it,
00:11:44with some women,
00:11:45I'm just...
00:11:46Are women sometimes going to positions
00:11:49and thinking that,
00:11:50and in your case,
00:11:51where it's an assumption
00:11:52that I'm not getting that because...
00:11:54It wasn't an assumption.
00:11:56It was...
00:11:56That was it.
00:11:57That was the reason.
00:11:58It was no other reason.
00:11:59I take it as an assumption
00:12:00because it doesn't...
00:12:00It wasn't...
00:12:01And this is why...
00:12:03This is why women can't...
00:12:04This is why women have to fight,
00:12:06you know,
00:12:06because when we say,
00:12:07this is what it was,
00:12:09y'all are coming and saying,
00:12:10no,
00:12:10it wasn't the privilege.
00:12:11No, no, no, no, no, no.
00:12:12We're not saying no.
00:12:12We're not saying no.
00:12:13It could very well be that.
00:12:14No.
00:12:15It could very well be that.
00:12:17What we are saying is,
00:12:18you're not certain that it is that
00:12:20because you never ask,
00:12:21you never clarify.
00:12:22Nobody say,
00:12:23well, yeah,
00:12:24A, B, C, D, E, F, G.
00:12:25You understand what I'm saying?
00:12:26Okay.
00:12:26Right?
00:12:27No, you may very well be correct,
00:12:29but until you find out,
00:12:30I mean, you know,
00:12:30for sure,
00:12:31we have no idea.
00:12:33Could it be nepotism?
00:12:35Could it be...
00:12:36Could it be negotiated better?
00:12:38Maybe he tickling something
00:12:40under the table.
00:12:41Oh, no.
00:12:42You understand?
00:12:42I'll say no,
00:12:43you be real.
00:12:44But I am not...
00:12:46Oh, he getting tickled.
00:12:46I am not...
00:12:47Oh.
00:12:47Okay,
00:12:48and if I was the only person
00:12:49that this happened to,
00:12:51then I would say yes.
00:12:52You know what?
00:12:52Maybe there is some underlying factor.
00:12:54But this happens disproportionately
00:12:56to women when we look
00:12:57at whatever studies.
00:12:58I mean, I know now,
00:12:59like, probably in the States
00:13:00it's a little better
00:13:01in terms of the gender pay gap
00:13:03closing in.
00:13:05And I don't have much research
00:13:06on what it's like in Trinidad,
00:13:07but, you know,
00:13:08based on my experience
00:13:10and what I've seen
00:13:11and just antidotal evidence,
00:13:13it appears that there's
00:13:14a huge gender gap
00:13:15as a result of just being a woman.
00:13:18So can we bring that
00:13:19into the context as well
00:13:20of then diversity that,
00:13:23for example,
00:13:23if there's a job
00:13:24that's open
00:13:25and you say,
00:13:26okay, well,
00:13:26I have to fill a black quota
00:13:28or I have to fill
00:13:29an Asian quota
00:13:30and I'm hiring somebody
00:13:31based on that
00:13:32as opposed to
00:13:33are they the best person
00:13:35for the job?
00:13:36Now,
00:13:37and people will say,
00:13:38yeah,
00:13:38a lot of times
00:13:39you have to hire someone
00:13:40based on,
00:13:42you know,
00:13:42you have to have
00:13:43a certain quota
00:13:43that you have to fill.
00:13:44But then ask yourself,
00:13:46if you're in a situation
00:13:49of, say,
00:13:50war
00:13:50or on a plane,
00:13:52would you want
00:13:52the best person
00:13:53or you would
00:13:54you want diversity
00:13:54or you would
00:13:55you want equality?
00:13:56But can't you,
00:13:57but then you make it
00:13:58seem like the diverse
00:13:59person is not necessarily
00:14:00the best person.
00:14:01I'm just speaking.
00:14:03Why is there a choice?
00:14:05Why is there a choice
00:14:06between the diversity
00:14:07and being the best,
00:14:09the diverse
00:14:10and being the best?
00:14:11He didn't say that.
00:14:12He didn't say that.
00:14:14But they could also.
00:14:14We're not saying that.
00:14:15And directors,
00:14:16it could be either one.
00:14:18But your question
00:14:19is posing a choice,
00:14:21right?
00:14:21Is it that I want
00:14:21the diverse person
00:14:22or do I want
00:14:23the best person?
00:14:24Do you want the best?
00:14:24I want the best person
00:14:25regardless of what,
00:14:26who they are,
00:14:27right?
00:14:29But,
00:14:31I don't know,
00:14:32I guess.
00:14:32So military service,
00:14:33military service,
00:14:35you know,
00:14:35you hear the argument
00:14:36all the time
00:14:36that if Trinidad and Tobago
00:14:37decided to go down that road,
00:14:39right,
00:14:39how many women
00:14:40at that point
00:14:41would then decide,
00:14:42hey,
00:14:42you know,
00:14:42they want equality
00:14:43or they'll decide
00:14:44at that point,
00:14:45hey,
00:14:45I'm going to go.
00:14:46Well,
00:14:47I think,
00:14:48I think there is,
00:14:49you know,
00:14:50men do have that to face
00:14:51where there are
00:14:52a lot of inequalities
00:14:53within the space
00:14:54of being a man,
00:14:55you know,
00:14:56be it being drafted
00:14:57into the military.
00:14:59I know criminal sentences.
00:15:01I know like men
00:15:02are like more likely
00:15:03to receive higher
00:15:04criminal sentences
00:15:05than women.
00:15:06A lot of things,
00:15:08right?
00:15:08A lot of things
00:15:08that child support,
00:15:09alimony,
00:15:11all these things
00:15:12that men,
00:15:12so I'm not saying
00:15:13that men don't have
00:15:15their battles to fight
00:15:18and their war to fight,
00:15:20but their war,
00:15:23I think also
00:15:23in you guys
00:15:25trying to fight
00:15:27those battles
00:15:27and kind of make awareness.
00:15:29I would have just
00:15:30said you guys,
00:15:31so like some women,
00:15:32but okay.
00:15:33No,
00:15:34I mean,
00:15:34you guys,
00:15:35you guys in this room.
00:15:37You guys in this room.
00:15:38You guys in this room.
00:15:40But it also,
00:15:41you know,
00:15:41acknowledging women's rights
00:15:43and I guess,
00:15:44you know,
00:15:44that diversity
00:15:45and the despair
00:15:47and data
00:15:47and sexual violence
00:15:49and kind of like
00:15:50domestic violence
00:15:51doesn't negate
00:15:52the fight for the men,
00:15:53right?
00:15:54So it doesn't really
00:15:55have to be,
00:15:55in my opinion,
00:15:56and I don't,
00:15:57so when I said
00:15:57I wasn't a feminist
00:15:59earlier,
00:15:59it's that
00:16:00I don't believe
00:16:01one cause
00:16:02is better than the other
00:16:04to some extent.
00:16:05You know,
00:16:06I think human rights
00:16:07is human rights,
00:16:08right?
00:16:09I can argue with that.
00:16:09Yeah,
00:16:10and how we go about
00:16:11highlighting awareness
00:16:13on all these different rights
00:16:14is really important
00:16:15and it's more about,
00:16:17even though,
00:16:18you know,
00:16:18I will say things like,
00:16:19you know,
00:16:19you're saying some women
00:16:20and you're generalizing
00:16:21and all of that,
00:16:22at the end of the day,
00:16:23I still think
00:16:24we're all in one fight
00:16:25because we all have
00:16:27valid biases
00:16:29or differences
00:16:30that happen.
00:16:31and so yeah,
00:16:33I forgot what
00:16:33the initial point was
00:16:34but that...
00:16:35No,
00:16:35but I take it
00:16:36because it gives us
00:16:36a really good segue.
00:16:37We're going to take
00:16:38a short break now
00:16:39but when we come back
00:16:40as we continue
00:16:41on the topic
00:16:42of just saying no,
00:16:43we're going from equality
00:16:44and I still want to continue
00:16:45touching on that
00:16:46particular topic
00:16:47but as you brought up,
00:16:49you know,
00:16:50where men face
00:16:51in terms of
00:16:52in terms of
00:16:53in the criminal system,
00:16:55men,
00:16:55men,
00:16:56men have a
00:16:58men have a
00:16:58very unfair,
00:17:00I'm not saying that,
00:17:01you know,
00:17:01I want to see
00:17:02more women
00:17:02in prison
00:17:02but I'm just saying
00:17:03it's an unfair
00:17:04and we talk about
00:17:05even when it comes
00:17:06to domestic violence
00:17:07so I think
00:17:07this is a good segue
00:17:08to say,
00:17:09okay,
00:17:09let's take a break
00:17:10and when we come back
00:17:10let's really focus
00:17:12on that aspect
00:17:13of just saying no
00:17:14but we're not giving up
00:17:15on the whole conversation
00:17:16about equality
00:17:18for men and women.
00:17:19welcome back to manhood
00:17:33now the conversation
00:17:35we started
00:17:35about equality
00:17:36between men and women
00:17:38and we referenced
00:17:39Jordan Peterson's
00:17:40research on
00:17:41women being agreeable
00:17:42in the workplace
00:17:43and that they should be
00:17:44a little more assertive
00:17:46in asking
00:17:47for what they want
00:17:47or at least
00:17:48even saying no
00:17:49so in that stead
00:17:51we moving forward
00:17:53a little bit
00:17:53the just say no
00:17:55part of it
00:17:56but we wanted
00:17:57to close off
00:17:58that equality
00:17:59aspect of it
00:18:00understanding exactly
00:18:02what we mean
00:18:03when we say
00:18:03equality
00:18:04versus
00:18:05between men
00:18:06and women
00:18:06now my
00:18:07thing is
00:18:08is that
00:18:09because
00:18:10we are humans
00:18:12things may not
00:18:13always be equal
00:18:14and sometimes
00:18:15equality
00:18:15is based on
00:18:16our perception
00:18:16right
00:18:18now we can have
00:18:19some numbers
00:18:19with it
00:18:20but
00:18:20if we go
00:18:21in straight workplace
00:18:22I remember
00:18:23your reference
00:18:24about
00:18:25women
00:18:26disproportionately
00:18:27paid
00:18:27less than men
00:18:28that's something
00:18:29you could measure
00:18:31but
00:18:31as the example
00:18:32you gave
00:18:33in terms of
00:18:33the place
00:18:34you old
00:18:35you know
00:18:35we wasn't too sure
00:18:36exactly what
00:18:37caused it
00:18:38so there may be
00:18:39some other factors
00:18:40tell me what you think
00:18:41well for one
00:18:44I think that's the reason
00:18:45why
00:18:45you know
00:18:46and I'm going to
00:18:46stand by that
00:18:47but as it relates
00:18:49to
00:18:49when I think about
00:18:51equality
00:18:51in the context
00:18:53of men and women
00:18:54I really see it
00:18:55as
00:18:55more of
00:18:57women
00:18:58and both men
00:18:59having
00:19:00the ability
00:19:01to choose
00:19:02what they want
00:19:03to do
00:19:03right
00:19:04and I think
00:19:05that's really
00:19:06the meat and potatoes
00:19:08of I guess
00:19:09like the feminist
00:19:09movement
00:19:10so it's not
00:19:11in my opinion
00:19:12it's not
00:19:13really a measure
00:19:14of
00:19:15does the man
00:19:16have this
00:19:17and does the woman
00:19:17have this
00:19:18and is it 50-50
00:19:19but to me
00:19:19in my opinion
00:19:20it's
00:19:21okay so the woman
00:19:22she can make a choice
00:19:23she can make a choice
00:19:24to say
00:19:25I want to work
00:19:26or maybe I don't want to work
00:19:27I want to get married
00:19:28I want to have kids
00:19:28I don't want to have kids
00:19:30and you know
00:19:31because we have to
00:19:32we have to look
00:19:32at the history as well
00:19:33right
00:19:34it wasn't only
00:19:35up until a few couple
00:19:36years ago
00:19:37where women
00:19:37were able to work
00:19:38or even
00:19:39were able to have
00:19:40their own bank accounts
00:19:42right
00:19:42and that's very recently
00:19:43so I think
00:19:45in
00:19:46for me
00:19:47and my perception
00:19:48of equality
00:19:50is everyone
00:19:51really having
00:19:52the freedom
00:19:52to choose
00:19:53so we go down
00:19:54the road
00:19:54I mean
00:19:54Shreen
00:19:55we've discussed
00:19:56a couple things
00:19:57on manhood
00:19:57and you know
00:19:58from masculine energy
00:19:59to toxic masculinity
00:20:01to
00:20:02I mean
00:20:03I myself
00:20:03was just about to do it
00:20:04mansplaining
00:20:05and I ask myself
00:20:08is it that
00:20:09in every environment
00:20:11because
00:20:12you know
00:20:12have you ever experienced
00:20:13where
00:20:14or a situation
00:20:15or had girlfriends
00:20:16or any colleagues
00:20:17at all
00:20:18where they've actually
00:20:19said to you
00:20:20that this person
00:20:21got the job
00:20:22because they were male
00:20:23like where does it
00:20:25come from
00:20:26that there's an
00:20:26assumption
00:20:27that the person
00:20:28got the job
00:20:29because they were male
00:20:30is it because
00:20:30it's a male
00:20:31dominated environment
00:20:32I don't think
00:20:32it's a assumption
00:20:33I think data shows
00:20:35that data
00:20:36clearly shows
00:20:37that women
00:20:38are paid
00:20:39less than men
00:20:40in certain industries
00:20:41I know like
00:20:41you know
00:20:42within recent times
00:20:43that that scale
00:20:44has been tipped a bit
00:20:46we're not
00:20:46economies of scale
00:20:48I'm talking about position
00:20:48so let's start
00:20:49with position
00:20:50first
00:20:50in terms of CEOs
00:20:51I mean
00:20:52is it
00:20:52in FTSE
00:20:53for example
00:20:54I think
00:20:54seven of the top
00:20:56those companies
00:20:57in Europe
00:20:58have females
00:20:59as the head
00:21:00so are you speaking
00:21:03like I'm asking
00:21:03to pick your poison
00:21:05are you speaking
00:21:06about position
00:21:08or are we talking
00:21:09about pay
00:21:09or are we talking
00:21:10about position
00:21:10and pay
00:21:11well I think
00:21:12I think they're both
00:21:13related to some sense
00:21:15right
00:21:15because the higher
00:21:16position you are
00:21:17and the higher
00:21:18that you're paid
00:21:18but if you were
00:21:20to think of it
00:21:21in the context
00:21:22of Trinidad
00:21:23and again
00:21:23I could be biased
00:21:24in my thinking
00:21:24but I have been
00:21:26in the social service
00:21:28field for a very
00:21:29long time
00:21:30and I've seen
00:21:30you know
00:21:31my job is to
00:21:32interact with
00:21:33families on a
00:21:35daily basis
00:21:35and I see
00:21:36I see disparity
00:21:37I see it very much
00:21:38and I you know
00:21:39it would be wrong
00:21:40of me to come
00:21:40on here and say
00:21:41it doesn't exist
00:21:42or maybe
00:21:42my situation
00:21:44is a one off
00:21:45you want to say
00:21:45well I'm going to
00:21:46jump in it
00:21:46because again
00:21:47what I always
00:21:48try to do
00:21:48and again
00:21:49it's not an opinion
00:21:49I'm not chastising
00:21:50you or trying
00:21:51to get a particular
00:21:52get you to
00:21:53thanks for not
00:21:54chastising me
00:21:54Robert
00:21:55shit
00:21:55it's
00:21:58what I'm trying
00:21:59to do
00:21:59is I'm trying
00:21:59to get a
00:22:00clear understanding
00:22:01to those
00:22:01who are listening
00:22:02as to what
00:22:03is the position
00:22:04for us to
00:22:04then have a
00:22:05further discussion
00:22:05about
00:22:06so when you
00:22:07say position
00:22:07and pay
00:22:08I'm saying
00:22:08is it
00:22:08that you know
00:22:09is it that
00:22:09they're not
00:22:10enough CEOs
00:22:11because when
00:22:11you talk about
00:22:12workers
00:22:12as a social
00:22:13worker
00:22:13that's in
00:22:14a relationship
00:22:14something that
00:22:15we're going
00:22:15to talk about
00:22:16a bit further
00:22:16in this episode
00:22:18of manhood
00:22:19or this conversation
00:22:20of manhood
00:22:20but I'm talking
00:22:21about the workplace
00:22:22because at home
00:22:23it's something
00:22:23different
00:22:23where the man
00:22:24might say
00:22:25okay well
00:22:25I have to go
00:22:26and woman
00:22:26has to stay
00:22:27home
00:22:27we're going
00:22:29to get to that
00:22:30I'm talking
00:22:30about in the
00:22:31workplace
00:22:31because if we're
00:22:32talking about
00:22:33economies of scale
00:22:34for example
00:22:34I always remember
00:22:35the World Cup
00:22:36the football team
00:22:39the US football team
00:22:41had advocated
00:22:42for higher pay
00:22:44or equal pay
00:22:45with men
00:22:46right
00:22:47I see that as
00:22:48ludicrous
00:22:48and I'm going
00:22:49to say that
00:22:49that's my opinion
00:22:50and the reason
00:22:51for that is
00:22:52it's typically
00:22:52down to economies
00:22:53of scale
00:22:53and it's the same
00:22:55reason I would say
00:22:55that footballers
00:22:56like Messi
00:22:57etc.
00:22:58deserve the pay
00:22:59that they're
00:22:59going to get
00:22:59because if
00:23:00men's football
00:23:02is bringing
00:23:03hundreds of
00:23:04billions of
00:23:05dollars
00:23:05there are two
00:23:07arguments
00:23:07say
00:23:07one
00:23:08what am I
00:23:10gaining the
00:23:11money from
00:23:11the clubs
00:23:12etc.
00:23:12is to come
00:23:12and see
00:23:13this footballer
00:23:13so if it's
00:23:14for this
00:23:14footballer
00:23:15and I'm
00:23:16seeing these
00:23:16quality of
00:23:16footballers
00:23:17then that
00:23:18footballer
00:23:18should get
00:23:19the money
00:23:19not the
00:23:19management
00:23:20right
00:23:20and the same
00:23:21thing with
00:23:22regards to
00:23:22females
00:23:23if more
00:23:25men
00:23:26or in
00:23:27terms of
00:23:28sponsors
00:23:28the game
00:23:30is watched
00:23:30more by
00:23:31in terms of
00:23:31men's
00:23:32World Cup
00:23:32brings in
00:23:33more money
00:23:33then they
00:23:35get economies
00:23:35of scale
00:23:36they get
00:23:36paid more
00:23:37if women's
00:23:38football
00:23:39does the
00:23:40same
00:23:40then by
00:23:41all means
00:23:42economies of
00:23:43scale
00:23:43pay them
00:23:44equally
00:23:44but that's
00:23:45not the
00:23:45case
00:23:46so to
00:23:46say you
00:23:47want more
00:23:47it means
00:23:47somebody's
00:23:48somebody
00:23:49buss in
00:23:50so I want
00:23:50to go
00:23:51and answer
00:23:51so what
00:23:53I'll go
00:23:54into what
00:23:54Shreena's
00:23:55speaking about
00:23:55and I'll
00:23:56comment on
00:23:56what you
00:23:57say
00:23:57right
00:23:57if it
00:23:58is
00:23:58really
00:23:59because
00:24:00I mean
00:24:00I haven't
00:24:01done extensive
00:24:01research
00:24:02but when
00:24:02the talk
00:24:03about the
00:24:04gender
00:24:04pig
00:24:04started in
00:24:05the states
00:24:06right
00:24:06I started
00:24:07asking some
00:24:07businessmen
00:24:08here and
00:24:08doing small
00:24:09research
00:24:09not too
00:24:10significant
00:24:12and some
00:24:13of the
00:24:13businessmen
00:24:14actually said
00:24:14you know
00:24:15if they
00:24:16could actually
00:24:16pay a woman
00:24:17less it would
00:24:18be better for
00:24:18their business
00:24:19and they
00:24:20were showing
00:24:20me that
00:24:20it really
00:24:20do exist
00:24:21because a
00:24:22businessman
00:24:22if I could
00:24:22have more
00:24:23employees
00:24:23and pay less
00:24:24that's better
00:24:24for business
00:24:25right
00:24:26so they
00:24:27were showing
00:24:28me that
00:24:28it really
00:24:29don't exist
00:24:29they have
00:24:30to pay
00:24:30everybody
00:24:31equally
00:24:31right
00:24:32now
00:24:32and that's
00:24:34what I'm
00:24:34asking for
00:24:35empirical evidence
00:24:35that's all
00:24:36I'm saying
00:24:36I didn't
00:24:38interview every
00:24:39businessman
00:24:39in Trinidad
00:24:40right
00:24:41just some
00:24:42yeah
00:24:43and some
00:24:45of the
00:24:45business owners
00:24:46were women
00:24:46also
00:24:47right
00:24:47and they
00:24:48were saying
00:24:48that doesn't
00:24:49exist
00:24:49there's no
00:24:50there's no
00:24:50way
00:24:51legally
00:24:52and I
00:24:53say legally
00:24:53because I
00:24:53ain't talking
00:24:54about a
00:24:54small parlor
00:24:55or something
00:24:55where you
00:24:55could pay
00:24:56somebody
00:24:56wherever you
00:24:57want
00:24:57I'm talking
00:24:57about a
00:24:58business place
00:24:58where you
00:24:58have to
00:24:59apply
00:24:59there's a
00:25:00job spec
00:25:00there's a
00:25:00there's no
00:25:01way that
00:25:02there's a
00:25:03position
00:25:04as let's
00:25:04say social
00:25:05that the
00:25:05salary is a
00:25:06thousand dollars
00:25:07and because
00:25:07you're a
00:25:08woman I
00:25:08could try
00:25:09to pay
00:25:09you nine
00:25:10hundred
00:25:10dollars
00:25:10there's no
00:25:11way that
00:25:11that exists
00:25:12empirically
00:25:13thus far
00:25:13right
00:25:13again
00:25:14I ain't
00:25:14saying I
00:25:15interview every
00:25:15business
00:25:16space
00:25:16right
00:25:17and then
00:25:17coming to
00:25:18what you
00:25:19were saying
00:25:19I agree
00:25:20with you
00:25:21about bringing
00:25:22in money
00:25:22because let's
00:25:24just say
00:25:24male or
00:25:25female because
00:25:25there are some
00:25:26female athletes
00:25:27they might want
00:25:27to see more
00:25:28than male athletes
00:25:29they should get
00:25:30more money in
00:25:30that field
00:25:31because it's
00:25:31based on
00:25:32the club
00:25:33paying them
00:25:33is based on
00:25:34how much
00:25:34money they're
00:25:35bringing in
00:25:35and I could
00:25:36even give a
00:25:36good example
00:25:37when we're
00:25:37thinking about
00:25:38football we
00:25:39think about
00:25:39Messi we
00:25:40think about
00:25:40Ronaldo
00:25:40right
00:25:41who is the
00:25:42best female
00:25:42footballer
00:25:43I have no
00:25:44idea
00:25:44but you
00:25:46know that
00:25:46because of
00:25:47your profession
00:25:47most people
00:25:48don't even
00:25:49know that
00:25:49so why
00:25:50should you
00:25:50even be
00:25:50paid more
00:25:51because nobody
00:25:52even wants
00:25:52to go and
00:25:52see a play
00:25:53so I agree
00:25:55with the
00:25:55equality of
00:25:56that if
00:25:56you're popular
00:25:57and everybody
00:25:58want to come
00:25:58and see
00:25:58take the
00:25:59money
00:25:59whether you're
00:26:00a boxer
00:26:00whatever you
00:26:01do
00:26:01that's the
00:26:02sports arena
00:26:03and with
00:26:03the business
00:26:04arena I
00:26:05don't know
00:26:06anywhere where
00:26:06there's a
00:26:07job spec
00:26:08same
00:26:09there's a
00:26:09pay amount
00:26:10and because
00:26:11you're a
00:26:11woman I
00:26:11could pay
00:26:12less
00:26:12but sorry
00:26:13but that's
00:26:14something that's
00:26:14even going
00:26:15to ask
00:26:15Shireen
00:26:15initially
00:26:16because we
00:26:18talk inequality
00:26:18you said
00:26:19that you
00:26:20brought it
00:26:20to yourself
00:26:21you put a
00:26:21personal
00:26:22example inside
00:26:23of there
00:26:24where you
00:26:24said you
00:26:24was in
00:26:25some job
00:26:25and you
00:26:27and the
00:26:27guy
00:26:28and you
00:26:28said that
00:26:29you have
00:26:29just about
00:26:30equal
00:26:31qualifications
00:26:32so that is
00:26:34the exact
00:26:35same thing
00:26:35yes or
00:26:35no
00:26:36but even
00:26:36though you
00:26:37might have
00:26:37the same
00:26:37qualifications
00:26:38where you
00:26:39are putting
00:26:39the same
00:26:40amount of
00:26:41work
00:26:41the same
00:26:42output
00:26:42was coming
00:26:43from both
00:26:43of you
00:26:44no but we
00:26:45got recently
00:26:45hired so
00:26:46there would
00:26:48be no
00:26:49measure of
00:26:50whether or
00:26:51not
00:26:51I'm working
00:26:52better
00:26:52from the
00:26:53start
00:26:53he was
00:26:54going to
00:26:54get more
00:26:54and he
00:26:55was going
00:26:55to get
00:26:55less
00:26:55which I
00:26:57think is
00:26:58just ingrained
00:26:58bias but
00:26:59yeah
00:26:59this is
00:27:00probably not
00:27:00the audience
00:27:01to argue
00:27:01that
00:27:02and for
00:27:03me
00:27:03and that's
00:27:04based on
00:27:04what your
00:27:04answer was
00:27:05saying earlier
00:27:05where it's
00:27:05just
00:27:06that's
00:27:06basically
00:27:07bias
00:27:08it doesn't
00:27:08need to
00:27:08be gender
00:27:09based or
00:27:09anything like
00:27:10that
00:27:10because I
00:27:11can say
00:27:11for myself
00:27:12as well
00:27:12recently I
00:27:13did a job
00:27:14and my
00:27:16female
00:27:16counterpart
00:27:17she's given
00:27:18more than
00:27:19me and
00:27:20I actually
00:27:20put more
00:27:21energy and
00:27:22more vibes
00:27:22to the
00:27:23event and
00:27:23I pull up
00:27:24more but
00:27:24it's like
00:27:25whatever I
00:27:26mean and
00:27:27that's simply
00:27:27because
00:27:27she was a
00:27:29woman
00:27:29no I
00:27:30just think
00:27:30that's
00:27:30because the
00:27:31organizers
00:27:31deemed her
00:27:33more valuable
00:27:34or the
00:27:35organizers see
00:27:35that because
00:27:36she may have
00:27:37this background
00:27:38maybe she
00:27:39could get
00:27:39this but
00:27:40I never
00:27:40thought to
00:27:41myself
00:27:41because
00:27:42she's a
00:27:42woman
00:27:43they decide
00:27:43to give
00:27:44her more
00:27:44because
00:27:44this or
00:27:45because
00:27:45that
00:27:45it's just
00:27:46because
00:27:47it's not
00:27:48always about
00:27:50just the
00:27:50gender or
00:27:51the sex
00:27:51or anything
00:27:51like that
00:27:52but the
00:27:52person that
00:27:53is doing
00:27:53the hiring
00:27:54or the
00:27:54person that
00:27:55is in
00:27:55charge
00:27:55and they
00:27:56as I
00:27:57said
00:27:57bias
00:27:57because
00:27:57everybody
00:27:58has it
00:27:58or what
00:27:59they believe
00:27:59or their
00:27:59belief
00:28:00right so
00:28:01sometimes it
00:28:02all just
00:28:02boils down to
00:28:03people
00:28:03right and
00:28:05what people
00:28:05think and
00:28:06how they want
00:28:06to operate
00:28:07or they want
00:28:07to run
00:28:08life or run
00:28:08their business
00:28:09because you
00:28:10just said
00:28:10the businessman
00:28:11simply said
00:28:11if he could
00:28:12he would
00:28:13maybe rightly
00:28:14so
00:28:15who's to say
00:28:16if he could
00:28:16get if he could
00:28:17pay employees
00:28:18less just
00:28:18because a woman
00:28:19that's better
00:28:20for business
00:28:20for him
00:28:20because even
00:28:21like in a
00:28:22simple variety
00:28:23store
00:28:23in a simple
00:28:24variety
00:28:24store
00:28:25where everybody
00:28:25could get
00:28:26any same
00:28:26minimum wage
00:28:27I can tell
00:28:28you that
00:28:28that guy
00:28:29inside is
00:28:29going to
00:28:29be doing
00:28:30all the
00:28:30heavy listing
00:28:31every time
00:28:32there's a
00:28:32box to move
00:28:33he's going
00:28:33to get
00:28:34called to
00:28:34move the
00:28:34box
00:28:35and he's
00:28:35pumping
00:28:36he's not
00:28:36going in
00:28:36the gym
00:28:37or no
00:28:37but he's
00:28:37getting ripped
00:28:38just from
00:28:38the work
00:28:39right and
00:28:40all these
00:28:40women may be
00:28:42doing
00:28:42the job
00:28:42is wiping
00:28:43on the shelf
00:28:44yeah
00:28:45I think
00:28:46men are
00:28:48expected to
00:28:48do more
00:28:49manually
00:28:49than
00:28:50women
00:28:51unless you
00:28:52be expected
00:28:53to be paid
00:28:54more
00:28:54my hour
00:28:56sprites
00:28:56speak up
00:28:56now
00:28:57good to
00:28:58the mic
00:28:59so we
00:28:59have the
00:28:59audio
00:28:59to pump
00:29:00it up
00:29:00I want
00:29:02to again
00:29:02I always
00:29:04try to get
00:29:04an understanding
00:29:05of where
00:29:06we're coming
00:29:07from
00:29:07we're having
00:29:07a good
00:29:08conversation
00:29:08here
00:29:09and what
00:29:09it comes
00:29:10down to
00:29:10is
00:29:11fair is
00:29:12fair
00:29:12I would
00:29:14say to
00:29:14you that
00:29:15I totally
00:29:17understand
00:29:18where you're
00:29:19coming from
00:29:20Shirin
00:29:21I would
00:29:21also say
00:29:22that
00:29:22maybe
00:29:23sometimes
00:29:24it comes
00:29:25down to
00:29:25the interview
00:29:25because
00:29:26whether it's
00:29:26male or
00:29:26female
00:29:27even though
00:29:28you have
00:29:28the same
00:29:28qualifications
00:29:29or you
00:29:29may have
00:29:29better
00:29:30qualifications
00:29:30how was
00:29:32the interview
00:29:33conducted
00:29:33what did
00:29:33that person
00:29:34get from
00:29:35that person
00:29:36that might
00:29:36be more
00:29:37fitting to
00:29:37the particular
00:29:38role
00:29:38and they feel
00:29:39they can get
00:29:39more
00:29:40not just
00:29:40out of
00:29:41the specific
00:29:42role but
00:29:43in terms
00:29:43of the
00:29:43ad value
00:29:44having said
00:29:46that I
00:29:47would say
00:29:47some of
00:29:48the most
00:29:48powerful
00:29:48women I
00:29:50know
00:29:50let me
00:29:52rephrase
00:29:53that
00:29:53some of
00:29:53the most
00:29:53powerful
00:29:54people I
00:29:55know in
00:29:55Trinidad and
00:29:55Tobago
00:29:56are female
00:29:57let's use
00:29:57Ansa Macala
00:29:58and Guardian
00:29:58Media
00:29:58some of
00:29:59the most
00:29:59powerful
00:30:00members of
00:30:01Ansa Macala
00:30:02are all
00:30:02female
00:30:02the highest
00:30:03positions
00:30:06in Guardian
00:30:07Media
00:30:08all are
00:30:09female
00:30:09and they're
00:30:10not put
00:30:11there because
00:30:12they're female
00:30:13because they're
00:30:13the best
00:30:14person for
00:30:14the job
00:30:15and I
00:30:15can tell
00:30:16you they
00:30:16go toe
00:30:16to toe
00:30:17with the
00:30:17men on
00:30:19all fields
00:30:19and very
00:30:21educated
00:30:21I don't
00:30:24think I
00:30:24argue that
00:30:25women are
00:30:26not in
00:30:26powerful positions
00:30:27within Trinidad and
00:30:28Tobago I think
00:30:29that they are
00:30:29and I think
00:30:30that that speaks
00:30:31a lot about
00:30:32our culture
00:30:33and how we
00:30:34see women
00:30:35and how we
00:30:36view women
00:30:37but if I
00:30:39was to
00:30:40really pull
00:30:41that
00:30:41again
00:30:42that's
00:30:43within a
00:30:43certain space
00:30:44within a
00:30:45corporate space
00:30:45within this
00:30:46space
00:30:46you see how
00:30:47women are
00:30:48regarded
00:30:49but if we
00:30:50were to
00:30:51look at it
00:30:51from
00:30:52violence against
00:30:53women maybe
00:30:54and I don't
00:30:56mean to
00:30:56come off
00:30:57topic or
00:30:58anything
00:30:58but if you
00:30:58were to
00:30:59look at it
00:30:59as violence
00:30:59against women
00:31:00we see
00:31:02where
00:31:03women are
00:31:05treated more
00:31:05unfairly in
00:31:06these kind
00:31:07of circumstances
00:31:08and these
00:31:09things so
00:31:09even if we
00:31:11are to say
00:31:11okay but
00:31:13you know what
00:31:13it have all
00:31:14these female
00:31:14CEOs out
00:31:15here so
00:31:16that must
00:31:16mean that
00:31:18as a society
00:31:20we love
00:31:21women and
00:31:22we're not
00:31:22biased towards
00:31:23women I
00:31:24think we'd
00:31:24be wrong in
00:31:25saying that
00:31:25because you
00:31:26know the
00:31:26data does
00:31:27show that
00:31:27women do
00:31:29experience a
00:31:30lot more
00:31:31violence against
00:31:32them and I
00:31:33think just a
00:31:34lot more unfair
00:31:34circumstances and
00:31:35again this
00:31:36could just
00:31:37basically be
00:31:37from my
00:31:38own experience
00:31:39and again it's
00:31:40biased because
00:31:40of my job
00:31:41right so
00:31:42this is what
00:31:42I see
00:31:43every day so
00:31:44it's going to
00:31:45be what I
00:31:45think so I
00:31:46do you know
00:31:47want to put
00:31:47that out there
00:31:48as well but
00:31:50again I want
00:31:51us to be very
00:31:52careful in not
00:31:53making the
00:31:55conversation well
00:31:57we have all
00:31:57these CEOs and
00:31:58all these these
00:31:59female leaders so
00:32:00that must mean
00:32:01that you know
00:32:02women are doing
00:32:02better than men
00:32:03not at all
00:32:04you're right
00:32:06because I mean
00:32:06one of the
00:32:07things that even
00:32:08when you
00:32:08mentioned about
00:32:09gender-based
00:32:09violence that
00:32:10you know one
00:32:11in three I
00:32:11think it's in
00:32:12Trinidad that
00:32:13that you know
00:32:14men being a
00:32:15more dominant
00:32:16force and you
00:32:17know physically
00:32:17you will certainly
00:32:19have that over
00:32:21women but what
00:32:22about there's
00:32:23also the data
00:32:23that shows the
00:32:24highest the
00:32:25higher the
00:32:26higher the two
00:32:27in terms of
00:32:27gender to the
00:32:28suicide rate are
00:32:29males and that's
00:32:30because males
00:32:31don't have that
00:32:32venue you know
00:32:33that avenue to
00:32:34say what they
00:32:35feel if they
00:32:36themselves are
00:32:37being abused
00:32:37because there
00:32:38are other forms
00:32:38besides physical
00:32:39you know there's
00:32:40mental there's
00:32:41financial there's
00:32:42well I think the
00:32:42lack of mental
00:32:43health within
00:32:44spaces normally
00:32:46occupied by men
00:32:47and the discussion
00:32:49of mental health
00:32:49is a huge
00:32:50disservice to men
00:32:51and definitely
00:32:53something that I
00:32:54advocate for
00:32:54so I just
00:32:56want before we
00:32:56go to a break
00:32:57you know just
00:32:58again just to
00:32:59put it into
00:33:00context that
00:33:00we're not in
00:33:01any way saying
00:33:02that women
00:33:03aren't deserving
00:33:04of equality
00:33:06and in terms of
00:33:08even equity
00:33:08and pay
00:33:09it's just a
00:33:10matter of how
00:33:11you position
00:33:12yourself and
00:33:13we know we
00:33:14need to do
00:33:14better we
00:33:14focused on
00:33:15mansplaining and
00:33:16the whole reason
00:33:17for that topic
00:33:18for example was
00:33:18to identify that
00:33:19men you know
00:33:20call men out
00:33:21on their
00:33:21s*** you know
00:33:22we do it
00:33:23identify it
00:33:24and when you
00:33:25know that
00:33:25has your behaviour
00:33:26changed since
00:33:26then since the
00:33:27mansplaining episode
00:33:28do you feel like
00:33:29I don't know
00:33:30maybe if we
00:33:32touched one
00:33:32it must not
00:33:33your behaviour
00:33:34changed
00:33:34then yours
00:33:35the mine
00:33:36yeah
00:33:37okay
00:33:37I would certainly
00:33:38say yeah
00:33:39you know like
00:33:39for me a lot
00:33:41as I start
00:33:42off the show
00:33:43you know you
00:33:43go in there
00:33:44with a certain
00:33:44subject
00:33:45you've done a
00:33:46bit of research
00:33:46and then you
00:33:47think okay well
00:33:48I know I'm
00:33:49going to lead
00:33:49this conversation
00:33:50and I usually
00:33:50would lead it
00:33:51and then during
00:33:53the conversation
00:33:53you realize wow
00:33:54you know I've
00:33:54gotten pause for
00:33:55thought and then
00:33:57by the end of it
00:33:57there's always
00:33:58nuggets and
00:33:59there's always
00:33:59that you know
00:34:00that you know
00:34:03where I reflect
00:34:05and I think
00:34:07you know I could
00:34:08make a change
00:34:09and you have a
00:34:09better understanding
00:34:10even more than
00:34:11you know chat
00:34:12GPT of
00:34:13things like
00:34:15mansplaining
00:34:16and toxic
00:34:17masculinity and
00:34:18masculine energy
00:34:18so
00:34:19because the
00:34:20thing is
00:34:20is not
00:34:21we're not
00:34:22fighting
00:34:23and that's
00:34:24sometimes where
00:34:25it gets a little
00:34:26skewed
00:34:26to me
00:34:27it's not
00:34:28men fighting
00:34:29against women
00:34:30because if
00:34:30there are
00:34:31disparities on
00:34:32both ends
00:34:32then we
00:34:33finding solutions
00:34:34will raise
00:34:35society in
00:34:36general
00:34:36so why
00:34:38ask about
00:34:39the evidence
00:34:40because if
00:34:41women are
00:34:41rarely getting
00:34:42less than
00:34:42men
00:34:43that is
00:34:43something
00:34:43that should
00:34:43be fixed
00:34:44if men
00:34:45doing more
00:34:45work than
00:34:46women are
00:34:46not getting
00:34:47paid
00:34:47then that is
00:34:47something
00:34:48that should
00:34:48be fixed
00:34:49for all of
00:34:50us to rise
00:34:51so that's
00:34:52why even
00:34:52when questioning
00:34:53because I
00:34:54want to
00:34:54make sure
00:34:54because even
00:34:55in my own
00:34:56because all
00:34:56of us have
00:34:57a bias
00:34:57right
00:34:58that is
00:34:58humans
00:34:59right
00:34:59and that
00:35:00bias of
00:35:01course is
00:35:01not based
00:35:02on evidence
00:35:03most times
00:35:03it's based
00:35:04on life
00:35:04experiences
00:35:05which could
00:35:05be evidence
00:35:05in some
00:35:06realms
00:35:07but let's
00:35:08say it's
00:35:09not statistical
00:35:09evidence
00:35:10so everybody
00:35:11have a bias
00:35:11so sometimes
00:35:12we have to
00:35:12be able to
00:35:13cut through
00:35:13that bias
00:35:13and see
00:35:14the truth
00:35:15of things
00:35:15and that's
00:35:16what I really
00:35:17want
00:35:17yes I enjoy
00:35:18the banter
00:35:18right
00:35:19but I mean
00:35:20in terms of
00:35:20what manhood
00:35:21is about
00:35:21also
00:35:22is men
00:35:22being better
00:35:23in general
00:35:23and of course
00:35:24if we be
00:35:25better
00:35:25the women
00:35:26around us
00:35:26better
00:35:27our children
00:35:27etc etc
00:35:28so I just
00:35:29add in that
00:35:30perfect
00:35:30perfect
00:35:31you want
00:35:31and that's
00:35:32pretty much
00:35:34what we want
00:35:34to get at
00:35:35because we
00:35:36can get into
00:35:36sport
00:35:37for example
00:35:38if women
00:35:39want equality
00:35:40across the board
00:35:41and not being
00:35:42very specific
00:35:43which you are
00:35:43then you can
00:35:44say okay
00:35:45well why
00:35:45isn't Shelley
00:35:46and Fraser
00:35:47Price running
00:35:47when you
00:35:47say
00:35:48bold
00:35:49you know
00:35:49there are
00:35:50reasons for
00:35:50that
00:35:50we're not
00:35:51going to get
00:35:51into the
00:35:51biology
00:35:52but the
00:35:52fairness of
00:35:53as a human
00:35:54unless it
00:35:54really
00:35:55is something
00:35:56that's associated
00:35:57with biology
00:35:57there should be
00:35:59equality
00:35:59I wonder if I agree
00:36:01with equality
00:36:01but if I really
00:36:02believe in it
00:36:03after talking about this
00:36:04I don't know
00:36:05I don't know
00:36:06a hot topic
00:36:08there then
00:36:08becomes
00:36:09how do women
00:36:11now feel
00:36:11about men
00:36:12seeing to
00:36:15themselves
00:36:15now I'm a
00:36:16woman
00:36:16and now
00:36:17entering your
00:36:18sport
00:36:18and taking
00:36:21control
00:36:21that's a
00:36:23whole new
00:36:24topic
00:36:24but yes
00:36:26take a short
00:36:27break
00:36:27so welcome
00:36:39back to the
00:36:39conversation
00:36:40Robert
00:36:40again I want
00:36:41to say thank
00:36:41you for
00:36:41inviting me
00:36:42it's been a
00:36:42very interesting
00:36:43conversation
00:36:43when you
00:36:44initially started
00:36:45you talked
00:36:45about just
00:36:46saying no
00:36:47and kind
00:36:47of relating
00:36:48that to
00:36:48Jordan
00:36:49Peterson
00:36:50and women
00:36:51just saying
00:36:52no within
00:36:52the workplace
00:36:53and advocating
00:36:55for themselves
00:36:55when I think
00:36:56of just saying
00:36:57no within
00:36:57the context
00:36:58of our
00:36:59society
00:37:00and especially
00:37:01our generation
00:37:01and of course
00:37:02my job as
00:37:03well
00:37:03I think of
00:37:04just saying
00:37:05no in
00:37:05terms of
00:37:06male-female
00:37:07well I shouldn't
00:37:08say male-female
00:37:09relationships
00:37:09relationships in
00:37:10itself
00:37:11and violence
00:37:14sexual violence
00:37:15that's just
00:37:15what comes to
00:37:16me because
00:37:16of again
00:37:17what I do
00:37:18for a living
00:37:18so just
00:37:21say no
00:37:21on what that
00:37:21means right
00:37:22and we
00:37:24can empower
00:37:25women and
00:37:25even in my
00:37:26discussions
00:37:26that I've
00:37:27had in
00:37:27other forums
00:37:28you know I
00:37:30always say
00:37:31especially to
00:37:31young women
00:37:32to just say
00:37:33no if you
00:37:34don't like
00:37:34something if
00:37:35you don't
00:37:35like a guy
00:37:36say no if
00:37:37he's like let's
00:37:37go out let's
00:37:38go out or
00:37:38let's take a
00:37:39drink there's
00:37:39this thing that
00:37:40happens very
00:37:41very often
00:37:42I shouldn't
00:37:43say here I
00:37:44think it just
00:37:44happens where
00:37:46there's such a
00:37:47pressure to
00:37:48like drink
00:37:48right especially
00:37:50for women in
00:37:51social situations
00:37:52and I've
00:37:52been in so
00:37:52many social
00:37:53situations where
00:37:54you want a
00:37:55drink no I'm
00:37:55alright nah you
00:37:56gotta take a
00:37:56drink you
00:37:57gotta take a
00:37:57drink right
00:37:57and at what
00:38:00point is even
00:38:02if I'm empowering
00:38:03a woman to
00:38:03just say no
00:38:04that a man
00:38:06is hearing
00:38:07that no
00:38:07because I
00:38:08could tell a
00:38:09woman just
00:38:09say no just
00:38:10say no but
00:38:10if men are
00:38:11not hearing
00:38:11the no then
00:38:13what happens
00:38:14right so I
00:38:16really want to
00:38:16kind of delve
00:38:18into that and
00:38:19what just say
00:38:20no means to
00:38:21you and or
00:38:22you and are
00:38:23you hearing when
00:38:24a woman say
00:38:25just say no
00:38:25or does just
00:38:26say no means
00:38:27you know and
00:38:32that happens it
00:38:33happens so very
00:38:34often
00:38:34alright so
00:38:35I'll jump in
00:38:37one is I
00:38:39agree with
00:38:40telling people in
00:38:41general just say
00:38:42no I don't know
00:38:43statistically if
00:38:43women are pressured
00:38:44more than men to
00:38:45take a drink to
00:38:46me like you say
00:38:47Trinidad let you
00:38:48Trinidad alone I
00:38:49think everybody
00:38:50kind of pressured I
00:38:51remember when I
00:38:51was younger and I
00:38:53didn't really want
00:38:53to drink right I
00:38:54can't grow up
00:38:55religious right and
00:38:56you know I know
00:38:57not to take a drink
00:38:58but God you
00:39:00can't say thing you
00:39:01know even though I
00:39:02wasn't 18 yet men
00:39:03I think and I saw
00:39:04many men get under
00:39:05that pressure so I'm
00:39:06not sure if it's a
00:39:06female only thing I
00:39:08feel like you keep
00:39:08discarding every
00:39:10every point that I
00:39:11bring up a little
00:39:12bit a little bit on
00:39:13well it's not really
00:39:14I don't think is why
00:39:15let me tell you why
00:39:17because one
00:39:19because you don't
00:39:19think it's valid in
00:39:20me saying that
00:39:21no no no if we go
00:39:23in with the stats and
00:39:24what you were saying
00:39:25before if I know for
00:39:26sure female are
00:39:27disproportionately with
00:39:28something I want to
00:39:29hear about it so we
00:39:30could improve it but
00:39:31at the same time
00:39:31women are raped way
00:39:32more than men
00:39:33right just now we
00:39:33shouldn't rape just
00:39:34now we're talking
00:39:35about drinking I
00:39:36we're not going with
00:39:37the rape
00:39:37no but you're saying
00:39:38disproportionately
00:39:39affected right
00:39:42but that was an
00:39:47example and that's
00:39:48not the topic the
00:39:49topic is a woman
00:39:50saying no and a
00:39:52man hearing them
00:39:53say no so that was
00:39:53just an example of
00:39:55the bigger topic in
00:39:56my opinion so I'll
00:39:57start from there and
00:39:58then and then
00:39:58hearing women when
00:40:01they say just say
00:40:02no okay I'll segue
00:40:03into that is that
00:40:05I think and I could
00:40:08see I saw with
00:40:09with some men is
00:40:10that sometimes you
00:40:12don't hear them
00:40:13right because you
00:40:14want what you want
00:40:15right so if we're
00:40:16going straight from
00:40:17a man woman point
00:40:18of view I'm not
00:40:19saying all men or
00:40:20some men right let
00:40:21me just say I have
00:40:22seen it in your
00:40:23experience they want
00:40:25what they want it's
00:40:25like when I'm I've
00:40:27seen men do it even
00:40:28men in my family they
00:40:29go to a store and
00:40:31they have a female
00:40:32clerk and she's not
00:40:33smiling and he she
00:40:35have to smile for him
00:40:37now right now I
00:40:39always thought something
00:40:39was wrong with her
00:40:40because every person
00:40:41feels a smile now I
00:40:42like good service I
00:40:44want her smile but
00:40:45at the same time I
00:40:45can't force her smile
00:40:46so there you go
00:40:47something small into
00:40:48the bigger things
00:40:49some some men want
00:40:51some men would want
00:40:57a woman to react to
00:40:58them a certain way
00:40:59and if she doesn't he
00:41:01would force it right
00:41:02I could see that
00:41:02whether it's forced to
00:41:03the point of sexual
00:41:05violation or even
00:41:06forced rape not
00:41:07sexual violation that's
00:41:08not a thing but a
00:41:10sexual violation I
00:41:11didn't read you rape
00:41:12yet right what is
00:41:13sexual violation to
00:41:14you in differentiating
00:41:16between rape and
00:41:17sexual violation tell
00:41:18me I was first in
00:41:20terms of if you touch
00:41:21it and it don't
00:41:22stick it in so that's
00:41:23that's violation as
00:41:24opposed to rape
00:41:25finish what I'm
00:41:25I'm just wondering
00:41:26I'm interested now
00:41:28because I would have
00:41:29known the disconnect
00:41:30to me I thought I
00:41:31would have thought
00:41:32rape is actual
00:41:33intercourse or
00:41:34penetration but are
00:41:35you saying that there's
00:41:36one sense
00:41:36no but I mean that
00:41:37so when you say
00:41:38sexual violation right
00:41:40if you were if you
00:41:41were to say let's say
00:41:43sexual assault so it's
00:41:44not rape but it may be
00:41:45sexual assault or it may
00:41:47be some kind of
00:41:48criminality it's not a
00:41:51sexual violation you can't
00:41:52you know you're not
00:41:53going to get arrested for
00:41:53sexual violation or a
00:41:54woman is going to say
00:41:55you're sexually violated
00:41:56I mean they could
00:41:57right so it's a good
00:41:58point before you
00:41:59really point out
00:41:59breaking the law
00:42:00right because I've
00:42:01seen some men put
00:42:03their arms around
00:42:04women right and then
00:42:05I could see the woman
00:42:06uncomfortable but that's
00:42:07what he wants so if
00:42:09you want to go it's
00:42:10sexual it's some sort
00:42:10of violation because
00:42:11it's a person you're
00:42:13touching them and I've
00:42:14seen that and I've
00:42:15seen men because they
00:42:16want their way so I'm
00:42:17saying it does exist
00:42:18right and it's
00:42:19something that we
00:42:20should speak of on
00:42:20and why do you think
00:42:21that is why do you
00:42:22think why do you
00:42:23think men have this
00:42:26persistent kind of
00:42:28attitude when it comes
00:42:29to getting what they
00:42:30want from women
00:42:31I'll use two factors
00:42:33it could be more
00:42:34right but I'll use two
00:42:35factors from what I've
00:42:35seen because I've had
00:42:37female clients who
00:42:39they came to me
00:42:40because they wanted to
00:42:41be more assertive in
00:42:42situations right and
00:42:43because of the type of
00:42:44worker to actually put
00:42:46them in the field to
00:42:47see how they operate
00:42:48with men so I can give
00:42:49them a better handle in
00:42:51terms of how to do
00:42:52things so so one is
00:42:53her confidence was
00:42:55low right and some
00:42:56men picked pick up on
00:42:57that so they see
00:42:59an opportunity where
00:42:59they could take
00:43:00advantage of a
00:43:01situation so one
00:43:02taking advantage two
00:43:03I've seen some men
00:43:04because of ego now
00:43:06ego sometimes is low
00:43:07self-esteem so it's
00:43:08self-esteem low so
00:43:10let me say a car use
00:43:11lyrics when you're not
00:43:12confident in your
00:43:13looks or maybe maybe
00:43:14your possessions or
00:43:15whatever you think to
00:43:16get female so then
00:43:17you become forceful to
00:43:18take what you want
00:43:19because of of low
00:43:20self-esteem and then
00:43:22on another realm
00:43:23sometimes misinformation
00:43:24because some of us men
00:43:26were taught you have to
00:43:27be persistent but if
00:43:29you're persistent you
00:43:29will get through that
00:43:30does that's part of the
00:43:31methodology you need to
00:43:33be persistent so even
00:43:34if you're getting clear
00:43:35signs that the woman
00:43:36may be not interested
00:43:37or do like you if you
00:43:39are persistent you
00:43:40will get through but
00:43:41sometimes you want to
00:43:42say and I want to
00:43:43bring Karen in because
00:43:45I noticed we haven't
00:43:46introduced him Karen a.k.a.
00:43:47Chyney thank you for
00:43:49joining us you know we
00:43:50also like the fan Tadi
00:43:52for being part of you
00:43:54know the first couple
00:43:56of segments but you
00:43:58know when you know you
00:44:00see it all the time
00:44:01where you talk to
00:44:02friends and the woman
00:44:03says it all the time
00:44:04you know this man was
00:44:04real persistent you
00:44:05know I tell him no
00:44:06about seven eight
00:44:07times and I'll happily
00:44:08marry three four
00:44:09children yeah but
00:44:09persistent it's that
00:44:10persistent and that
00:44:11trustiness right
00:44:12yeah but this is cool
00:44:14like it acts I mean I
00:44:15just say it like it
00:44:16acts I get out on a
00:44:17date I just send you
00:44:18DMs and just message
00:44:19you and you blank me
00:44:20and blank me and
00:44:21blank me and blank me
00:44:22that difference from
00:44:23me wrapping you up
00:44:25in a party and run
00:44:27you down and stand
00:44:28up behind your whole
00:44:28party two two people
00:44:30behind you watching
00:44:31all right cool now
00:44:32time to go and make
00:44:33money you know
00:44:34trustiness is different
00:44:35from persistent
00:44:36persistence is I can
00:44:37be very nice and
00:44:38formal hi Shane let's
00:44:40go to dinner oh you
00:44:42know tonight's bad
00:44:43okay
00:44:43okay all right cool
00:44:47next Thursday I
00:44:48message you again and
00:44:49then so forth and so
00:44:50forth until she say
00:44:51all right you know
00:44:52what he ain't coming
00:44:55across you wrong
00:44:55way but all right
00:44:56let me see what
00:44:57going on this Thursday
00:44:58I'll go out with
00:44:58them you know
00:44:59understand and that
00:45:00is where is the
00:45:00difference he
00:45:01touched you know
00:45:02persistence but
00:45:03woman want bad
00:45:04man you know you
00:45:06don't say catch
00:45:06more flies than
00:45:07honey but the
00:45:07woman is not
00:45:08but then it's not
00:45:10bad man
00:45:11what do women
00:45:13want
00:45:14Robert you're now
00:45:16saying so you
00:45:17obviously
00:45:17can't talk
00:45:18and see half of
00:45:19men
00:45:20since using my
00:45:21boy Jordan
00:45:22Peterson according
00:45:22to Jordan Peterson
00:45:23research right some
00:45:24of his research is
00:45:25that and we can go
00:45:26both men and
00:45:27women because some
00:45:28men want bad
00:45:29girls too right
00:45:29it's not necessarily
00:45:30bad is what bad
00:45:32man and bad
00:45:33girl have is a
00:45:35certain level of
00:45:35assertiveness and a
00:45:37certain level of
00:45:38freedom that a lot
00:45:39of us crave so a
00:45:41bad man or a
00:45:42bad girl they
00:45:42really care about
00:45:43the rules and
00:45:43they are more
00:45:44themselves than
00:45:45people who are
00:45:46agreeable or
00:45:47people who not
00:45:48bad they kind of
00:45:49stay to the rules
00:45:50but they really
00:45:51want a little more
00:45:51freedom so they
00:45:52attract it to the
00:45:53according to the
00:45:54research I go in
00:45:54that research they
00:45:55crave the freedom
00:45:57that that person
00:45:58man or woman
00:45:58exhibits
00:45:59wait wait
00:46:00think Karen
00:46:00Shane what do
00:46:06you think
00:46:06I like you
00:46:08with
00:46:09well I do
00:46:10like you with
00:46:10trustiness
00:46:11I again I
00:46:13want to I
00:46:13understand what
00:46:14you're saying in
00:46:14terms of
00:46:15differentiating between
00:46:16the but again
00:46:16that's that's
00:46:17individual preference
00:46:18right so but if
00:46:20we were talked
00:46:20about if we were
00:46:21to really talk about
00:46:22it on a more
00:46:22general aspect of
00:46:24again and I want
00:46:25to go back to
00:46:26empowering a woman
00:46:27to just say no
00:46:28and then a man
00:46:29not hearing it
00:46:30right so I'm
00:46:32gonna put this
00:46:32question out for
00:46:33anybody not I'm
00:46:34not looking at him
00:46:35in particular Robert
00:46:36but but how many
00:46:40times or have you
00:46:41guys ever been in
00:46:42a situation where
00:46:44and I'm gonna say a
00:46:45sexual situation
00:46:46where a woman has
00:46:47said no and you've
00:46:48continued and because
00:46:50you didn't hear that
00:46:51no right and let's
00:46:53say that was to
00:46:54happen you didn't
00:46:55hear the no she
00:46:55tell you no you
00:46:56didn't hear the no
00:46:57y'all have sex
00:46:58to in your
00:46:59perception you
00:47:01had sex right
00:47:02she goes to the
00:47:03police and reports
00:47:05she was raped and
00:47:07you're like wait
00:47:08what now we just
00:47:09had sex and then
00:47:10she her reports to
00:47:11the police is yeah
00:47:13but I told him no I
00:47:14told him no I told
00:47:15him no right so
00:47:16now the police is
00:47:16asking you did she
00:47:18tell you no and
00:47:19you sit down there
00:47:20and you say oh
00:47:20shit you know what
00:47:21she really tell me
00:47:22no so I am saying
00:47:25that because this is
00:47:27a very likely
00:47:28situation that could
00:47:29happen and I'm not
00:47:30saying this to scare
00:47:31men or anything but
00:47:33you know you're
00:47:34you really have to
00:47:37listen yeah you
00:47:38would have never
00:47:38known you thought
00:47:39listening in the
00:47:39after once you know
00:47:41it's like being
00:47:41choked she parts
00:47:42anything you're going
00:47:43on correct
00:47:44inside there already
00:47:45up until she show
00:47:46up to the police
00:47:47station the next day
00:47:48and say she tell
00:47:48you no and your
00:47:49car tell you in your
00:47:50head you might not
00:47:51say it you might not
00:47:52want to admit it because
00:47:53you don't want to admit
00:47:53rape or something
00:47:54like that but in
00:47:56your head when you
00:47:57sit on home you're
00:47:57saying you know
00:47:58what the girl really
00:47:58told me no so it's
00:48:00really a matter in my
00:48:02opinion of introducing
00:48:03the idea of the
00:48:05conversation of
00:48:06consent and what that
00:48:08is but again I don't
00:48:09know if men are ready
00:48:10to do that because
00:48:11it's much easier for
00:48:12you to just go and
00:48:14go until a girl gives
00:48:15in as opposed to
00:48:16would you can I have
00:48:18sex with you can I
00:48:19kiss you you know
00:48:20what I mean
00:48:21but also to just
00:48:28cover yourself as a
00:48:29man right
00:48:30but what about the
00:48:31other way around as
00:48:31we talk about sex
00:48:32a woman a woman and
00:48:35I'm you know you're
00:48:36on top of a man
00:48:37and the man says
00:48:39hey nah no no I
00:48:40got all that and
00:48:41you like the legs do
00:48:42that you know men
00:48:44know that the legs
00:48:45grip and you're
00:48:46whole and you're
00:48:46same you know how
00:48:47much men make sure
00:48:49that you want to
00:48:50make a real problem
00:48:51and you say no and
00:48:53the woman no totally
00:48:55because you get to
00:48:55that point of when
00:48:57you are when you
00:48:57start it you can't
00:48:58there's like well then
00:48:59I would advise that
00:49:01person to go to the
00:49:01police and make a
00:49:03report against
00:49:04rip
00:49:04but that's something
00:49:08that could really
00:49:09happen and the only
00:49:11way the culture is
00:49:12going to change
00:49:12let me throw something
00:49:14out right and most a
00:49:16lot of people disagree
00:49:17with me with this but
00:49:18thus far I've seen this
00:49:20to be true men right
00:49:22we men everything is
00:49:24our fault right hear
00:49:26mouth hear mouth hear
00:49:27mouth everything is
00:49:28our fault we are
00:49:29responsible for
00:49:30everything we are
00:49:31responsible for head in
00:49:32society we are
00:49:33responsible for when
00:49:34everything all right or
00:49:35just wait just wait
00:49:37just wait just now I
00:49:38told you you could
00:49:39disagree with me just
00:49:41know just here here
00:49:43so because from
00:49:44everything I'm hearing
00:49:45right because even
00:49:46even with sex we
00:49:49responsible for to
00:49:50make sure nothing
00:49:51goes wrong let me use
00:49:54what what what I'm
00:49:55sure in saying right
00:49:56right and so I
00:49:59train that out because
00:50:00even with the no I
00:50:02think and I think a
00:50:03man should be
00:50:04cognizant during sex
00:50:05to make sure that the
00:50:07woman enjoying
00:50:08herself next thing
00:50:09something going on
00:50:10etc but I
00:50:11I've never heard
00:50:11anybody say the
00:50:12oppositor but let me
00:50:14go with that right
00:50:15let me go with that
00:50:16and then research so
00:50:18there's not me saying
00:50:19this research shows
00:50:20that even in sex a
00:50:21woman would prefer the
00:50:23man take off her
00:50:24clothes and she take
00:50:24off her own clothes
00:50:25because he has to be
00:50:27the person doing it
00:50:27who did this research
00:50:28where you get that
00:50:29from we could we
00:50:30could we could
00:50:30I didn't think
00:50:32Jordan Peterson had
00:50:33something something
00:50:33about that right
00:50:34but I know let's
00:50:36I want to take off my
00:50:37own clothes but again
00:50:38this is not the
00:50:38topic of conversation
00:50:39there you go back
00:50:40from the start
00:50:40what I trust
00:50:41everything is a
00:50:43man's fault
00:50:44I trust that
00:50:45because based on
00:50:46why here and
00:50:46because even
00:50:47consent
00:50:47if we go to
00:50:48some of the
00:50:49longitudinal study
00:50:50thus far from
00:50:51places where the
00:50:51consent is actually
00:50:52low right
00:50:53the even women
00:50:55say that lame
00:50:56if you understand
00:50:57what I'm saying
00:50:57they don't want a
00:50:59man to come to
00:50:59ask consent
00:51:00they want a
00:51:00man to
00:51:01finesse them
00:51:01they want to
00:51:02etc etc
00:51:03even somebody
00:51:04for the
00:51:05longitudinal
00:51:06to me
00:51:07kind of
00:51:07kind of
00:51:08situational
00:51:09because I don't
00:51:10think in countries
00:51:10around 100 years
00:51:11or 50 years yet
00:51:12but even in some
00:51:13of those cases
00:51:14so I'm not saying
00:51:14anything wrong with
00:51:15consent
00:51:16I think
00:51:17no man should
00:51:18violate a woman
00:51:19in any way
00:51:19do you think a man
00:51:20should receive
00:51:21consent before
00:51:22having sex
00:51:23with a woman
00:51:24of course
00:51:24oh yeah
00:51:25anybody should
00:51:26have consent
00:51:27so why are there
00:51:28so many instances
00:51:29where
00:51:29I'm saying no
00:51:32and I'm not just
00:51:32saying me
00:51:33personally
00:51:33but I'm just
00:51:34saying like a
00:51:34woman is saying
00:51:35no
00:51:35and there's
00:51:36this culture
00:51:37of persistence
00:51:38so you
00:51:39are you saying
00:51:40that
00:51:41is there not
00:51:41a culture
00:51:41of persistence
00:51:42do you agree
00:51:42I don't know
00:51:43what you're
00:51:43talking about
00:51:44anyway
00:51:44I don't know
00:51:46what diversity
00:51:46has no kind
00:51:47of man
00:51:47but what I'm
00:51:48saying is
00:51:49if you blank
00:51:52am I ready
00:51:52and you continue
00:51:53and continue
00:51:54if you need
00:51:54bedroom and you
00:51:55blank
00:51:55and you continue
00:51:55and continue
00:51:56and continue
00:51:56then there's
00:51:57your choice
00:51:58to get up
00:51:58and get out
00:51:59today
00:51:59because
00:51:59it's either
00:52:00you go and
00:52:00let him do it
00:52:01or you're that
00:52:01scared that
00:52:02something
00:52:02won't happen
00:52:03that you're
00:52:03right
00:52:04I love that
00:52:05you say that
00:52:05because right
00:52:06so is it
00:52:07right
00:52:07so now we're
00:52:08in a situation
00:52:09where we're
00:52:09in the bed
00:52:10I'm saying
00:52:10no I'm saying
00:52:11no and he
00:52:11keeps going
00:52:12right
00:52:12and a woman
00:52:14he can't leave
00:52:15dog
00:52:15right
00:52:15but not all
00:52:16women can do
00:52:17that right
00:52:17not all people
00:52:19could do that
00:52:19and then if we
00:52:20were to talk
00:52:20about that
00:52:20we'd have to
00:52:21look at
00:52:21at the imbalance
00:52:22of power
00:52:23right
00:52:23so a man
00:52:24is usually
00:52:25the one
00:52:25who is in
00:52:26in that
00:52:27relationship
00:52:28the person
00:52:28in power
00:52:29be it
00:52:29physically
00:52:30be it
00:52:31emotionally
00:52:31be it
00:52:32mentally
00:52:32the man
00:52:34no but
00:52:34you have to
00:52:36discuss
00:52:37the imbalance
00:52:38of power
00:52:38when you're
00:52:39discussing
00:52:39something like
00:52:40this
00:52:40right
00:52:40but you're
00:52:41now giving
00:52:42further clarity
00:52:44so I'm
00:52:44saying to you
00:52:45if you're in
00:52:45the police station
00:52:46let's go back
00:52:47to that example
00:52:48of you
00:52:48so you're in
00:52:48the police station
00:52:49the day after
00:52:50and the police
00:52:51officer asks you
00:52:53did she or did
00:52:54she not say no
00:52:55now there are
00:52:56moments of
00:52:56your deep trust
00:52:58literally and
00:52:59figuratively
00:52:59and you
00:53:01are you
00:53:02know your
00:53:02eyes roll
00:53:02back and
00:53:03you're at
00:53:04whatever the
00:53:05position is
00:53:06right
00:53:06and she
00:53:08says no
00:53:08there's a
00:53:10big difference
00:53:10to as
00:53:12Chani pointed
00:53:13out you
00:53:13pick up
00:53:14yourself and
00:53:14you try to
00:53:15move and
00:53:15he holds
00:53:16you now
00:53:17that he
00:53:17holds you
00:53:18then he
00:53:18would know
00:53:19at that
00:53:19point that
00:53:19listen I
00:53:20am in
00:53:20many ways
00:53:21you're
00:53:21not very
00:53:22conscious
00:53:22of a
00:53:22physical
00:53:23action
00:53:23she's
00:53:24trying to
00:53:24fight and
00:53:25get away
00:53:25and you're
00:53:25holding this
00:53:26woman down
00:53:26so you're
00:53:27saying that
00:53:28there should
00:53:29be different
00:53:30levels of
00:53:31no
00:53:31because we
00:53:33can't have
00:53:36a segment
00:53:36saying just
00:53:37say no
00:53:38but he
00:53:39didn't finish
00:53:41what you were
00:53:41saying so he
00:53:42not saying
00:53:42anything yet
00:53:43what I'm
00:53:44trying to get
00:53:45at is that
00:53:46when I first
00:53:47heard that
00:53:48once a woman
00:53:49says no
00:53:50it's rape
00:53:51right I'm
00:53:52seeing that at
00:53:52that point
00:53:53I'm seeing
00:53:54that look at
00:53:55the demands
00:53:56perspective
00:53:57at that
00:53:57point that
00:53:58he might
00:53:58not heard
00:53:59he might
00:53:59not think
00:54:00she's
00:54:00serious
00:54:00you know
00:54:01it's like
00:54:01hey we
00:54:02we've
00:54:02come home
00:54:02here we've
00:54:03reached this
00:54:03point and
00:54:04we're doing
00:54:05it but if
00:54:05she's saying
00:54:06that's the
00:54:06discussion
00:54:06right there
00:54:07that you
00:54:08just said
00:54:09that she
00:54:09might not
00:54:10think he's
00:54:10serious and
00:54:11I think it's
00:54:12the responsibility
00:54:13of the man
00:54:14to now learn
00:54:15that when a
00:54:17woman says
00:54:18no she's
00:54:19serious I
00:54:20can't say
00:54:20no and
00:54:21you say
00:54:22because
00:54:23yes that is
00:54:25very possible
00:54:25without me
00:54:26cannot move
00:54:27to say
00:54:27no and
00:54:28some sort
00:54:29of
00:54:29because again
00:54:30men are
00:54:30usually in
00:54:31a more
00:54:31dominant
00:54:31position
00:54:32so
00:54:33physically
00:54:35so
00:54:38look at
00:54:38my
00:54:38what's
00:54:41the war
00:54:41right
00:54:42me and
00:54:42you
00:54:42in
00:54:43the
00:54:43bedroom
00:54:43war
00:54:43you
00:54:44saying
00:54:45wait boy
00:54:45I could
00:54:46take you
00:54:47let me hold
00:54:49you down
00:54:49quick
00:54:50and then get
00:54:51out it
00:54:51what do you
00:54:53mean
00:54:53what do you
00:54:54mean
00:54:54like I for
00:54:55instance
00:54:55I just
00:54:56say this
00:54:56is probably
00:54:57a bad
00:54:57example
00:54:57hold on
00:54:58right
00:55:01like it's
00:55:02have time
00:55:03and party
00:55:03and thing
00:55:03like I
00:55:04should be
00:55:05going
00:55:05and call
00:55:05for sexual
00:55:05harassment
00:55:06and call
00:55:06the coast
00:55:06and then
00:55:07we're going
00:55:07on cruise
00:55:08right
00:55:08and I'll
00:55:08take thing
00:55:09and I
00:55:09saying you
00:55:10know
00:55:10I'm here
00:55:11with whoever
00:55:12it may be
00:55:13and they
00:55:13instead of me
00:55:14because
00:55:14what take
00:55:15thing
00:55:15go and do
00:55:15take thing
00:55:16and watch
00:55:16me
00:55:16and say
00:55:16dog
00:55:16look at
00:55:17this food
00:55:17and just
00:55:18wind back
00:55:18on me
00:55:18and I
00:55:19can't
00:55:19do nothing
00:55:19I don't
00:55:20know
00:55:20oh god
00:55:21sis
00:55:21I can
00:55:22help me
00:55:23little mama
00:55:23like when
00:55:24little mama
00:55:24end up
00:55:24saying oh
00:55:25just come
00:55:25up
00:55:25now
00:55:26get my
00:55:29ease up
00:55:29now
00:55:30please
00:55:30and
00:55:30all right
00:55:31cool
00:55:31they'll wind
00:55:32back
00:55:32for a little
00:55:3220
00:55:33you know
00:55:34and whatever
00:55:34and then
00:55:35they'll go
00:55:35about the
00:55:35business
00:55:35but
00:55:36and now
00:55:36get
00:55:37cruise
00:55:38cruise
00:55:39cruise
00:55:39rape
00:55:40no way
00:55:41now get
00:55:42violated
00:55:42yeah
00:55:43that's a
00:55:43violation
00:55:44I didn't
00:55:44want that
00:55:45to happen
00:55:45then you
00:55:46shouldn't
00:55:46you should
00:55:47have
00:55:47how
00:55:47that
00:55:48same
00:55:50argument
00:55:50yeah but
00:55:51that's
00:55:51different
00:55:51you were
00:55:52saying that
00:55:52she should
00:55:52leave
00:55:53and she
00:55:53saying
00:55:53you should
00:55:54move
00:55:54it's
00:55:54different
00:55:55no
00:55:55you mean
00:55:56if I
00:55:56don't
00:55:56want
00:55:57it
00:55:57I
00:55:57don't
00:55:57want
00:55:57it
00:55:57yeah but
00:55:57receive it
00:55:58on mine
00:55:58in a
00:55:58package
00:55:59no no
00:56:00no
00:56:01no
00:56:01no
00:56:01no
00:56:02you know
00:56:03they take
00:56:03it upon
00:56:04themselves
00:56:04grab
00:56:05everything
00:56:06and they
00:56:06take it
00:56:07upon
00:56:07themselves
00:56:08but I
00:56:08want to
00:56:09bring it
00:56:09back
00:56:09into the
00:56:09context
00:56:10because I
00:56:10really
00:56:10want
00:56:11I
00:56:11really
00:56:11want
00:56:11people
00:56:12to
00:56:12understand
00:56:13where
00:56:14I'm
00:56:14coming
00:56:14from
00:56:15I'm
00:56:15saying
00:56:15to you
00:56:15that
00:56:15if
00:56:16you're
00:56:16in
00:56:16bed
00:56:17and you're
00:56:18no
00:56:18longer
00:56:18interested
00:56:19and you
00:56:19show
00:56:20no
00:56:20signs
00:56:21based
00:56:21on
00:56:21you're
00:56:21saying
00:56:22the
00:56:22words
00:56:23that
00:56:23should
00:56:24be
00:56:24enough
00:56:24but if
00:56:25you're
00:56:25saying
00:56:25the
00:56:25word
00:56:26I
00:56:26argue
00:56:26that
00:56:26that's
00:56:27enough
00:56:27I'm
00:56:28not
00:56:28saying
00:56:28it
00:56:28isn't
00:56:28when a
00:56:29woman
00:56:29says
00:56:30no
00:56:30it's
00:56:30no
00:56:30but I'm
00:56:31saying
00:56:32to you
00:56:32that
00:56:32women
00:56:33again
00:56:33must
00:56:33also
00:56:34take
00:56:35responsibility
00:56:35to
00:56:35understand
00:56:36that
00:56:36if
00:56:36you
00:56:36are
00:56:37in
00:56:37the
00:56:37throes
00:56:38of it
00:56:38and you
00:56:38no
00:56:38longer
00:56:38want
00:56:39it
00:56:39and
00:56:39you're
00:56:39not
00:56:39making
00:56:40any
00:56:40other
00:56:40gesture
00:56:41apart
00:56:41from
00:56:41saying
00:56:42no
00:56:42how
00:56:43is
00:56:43at
00:56:43that
00:56:43point
00:56:44where
00:56:44the
00:56:44man
00:56:44is
00:56:44thinking
00:56:45well
00:56:45you
00:56:46consented
00:56:46up
00:56:47until
00:56:47this
00:56:47point
00:56:47and
00:56:48are
00:56:48you
00:56:48really
00:56:48serious
00:56:49like
00:56:49have
00:56:49you
00:56:49ever
00:56:49been
00:56:50in a
00:56:50relationship
00:56:51where
00:56:52a woman
00:56:53says
00:56:54oh no
00:56:54I don't
00:56:55want any
00:56:55you're
00:56:56sure
00:56:56you don't
00:56:56want any
00:56:56yeah I don't
00:56:57want any
00:56:57and then
00:56:58when you
00:56:58get it
00:56:58half your
00:56:59plate
00:57:00gone
00:57:00right
00:57:00so
00:57:01I don't
00:57:02know how
00:57:03you think
00:57:03you could
00:57:03compare
00:57:04food and
00:57:04sex
00:57:04but
00:57:05in this
00:57:06context
00:57:06because
00:57:07we're not
00:57:07talking about
00:57:08just
00:57:08in the
00:57:09context
00:57:10of
00:57:10a
00:57:10one
00:57:11night
00:57:11stand
00:57:11we could
00:57:12talk about
00:57:12in a
00:57:13relationship
00:57:13so
00:57:13what do
00:57:14you think
00:57:14the awareness
00:57:14should be
00:57:15a part
00:57:15because what
00:57:16I'm hearing
00:57:16is
00:57:16just say
00:57:18no and
00:57:19punch him
00:57:19so that
00:57:20should be
00:57:20the name
00:57:20of the
00:57:20segment
00:57:21it could
00:57:21be
00:57:22just say
00:57:22no
00:57:23and maybe
00:57:23a prompt
00:57:24or something
00:57:25like you turn
00:57:26your head
00:57:26or something
00:57:27so why
00:57:27do we have
00:57:30to teach
00:57:30women
00:57:31to do
00:57:32something
00:57:32other than
00:57:33just say
00:57:33no
00:57:34just say
00:57:35no
00:57:35plus
00:57:35something
00:57:36because
00:57:37men
00:57:37this is
00:57:37what I'm
00:57:38hearing
00:57:38they're
00:57:39they're
00:57:40not
00:57:40capable
00:57:41they're
00:57:41not
00:57:42capable
00:57:42of
00:57:43when I
00:57:44say
00:57:44when I
00:57:46say
00:57:47just say
00:57:48no
00:57:48because
00:57:48that's
00:57:49what you're
00:57:49saying
00:57:49yes it is
00:57:50you're
00:57:51saying
00:57:51that
00:57:51okay
00:57:52it can't
00:57:53be
00:57:53just
00:57:54the word
00:57:55no
00:57:55it has
00:57:55to be
00:57:55the word
00:57:56no
00:57:56plus
00:57:58you need
00:58:00to move
00:58:00your head
00:58:01or you need
00:58:01to do
00:58:01this
00:58:02right
00:58:02so
00:58:03what I'm
00:58:06saying
00:58:06is
00:58:07why
00:58:07does it
00:58:08have to
00:58:08go
00:58:08from
00:58:09just
00:58:09say
00:58:09no
00:58:10plus
00:58:10do
00:58:10something
00:58:10else
00:58:11as opposed
00:58:11to the
00:58:12conversation
00:58:12continuing
00:58:13to stay
00:58:14men
00:58:14you know
00:58:15what
00:58:15she just
00:58:15said
00:58:15no
00:58:16so let
00:58:17it
00:58:17just
00:58:17be
00:58:17no
00:58:18right
00:58:18but that's
00:58:19not what
00:58:19y'all are
00:58:19doing
00:58:20it can't
00:58:21be
00:58:21just
00:58:22say
00:58:22no
00:58:22it had
00:58:22to be
00:58:22just
00:58:23say
00:58:23no
00:58:23plus
00:58:23something
00:58:24else
00:58:24what I'm
00:58:25saying
00:58:25to you
00:58:26is
00:58:26hear me
00:58:27well
00:58:27hear me
00:58:28well
00:58:29I am
00:58:31saying
00:58:31to you
00:58:31that
00:58:32just
00:58:32say
00:58:33no
00:58:33no
00:58:34is
00:58:34no
00:58:34regardless
00:58:35right
00:58:36make it
00:58:37very clear
00:58:37no
00:58:38is
00:58:38no
00:58:38what I'm
00:58:39saying
00:58:40to you
00:58:40just like
00:58:41in a job
00:58:41interview
00:58:41I'm saying
00:58:43when you
00:58:44say no
00:58:45if you
00:58:45are really
00:58:46saying no
00:58:46at that
00:58:46point
00:58:47it will
00:58:48be more
00:58:49in your
00:58:49favor
00:58:50to show
00:58:51more than
00:58:51just
00:58:52no
00:58:53yeah
00:58:53but I'm
00:58:54literally
00:58:55saying
00:58:55no
00:58:56as opposed
00:58:56to
00:58:56no
00:58:57and
00:58:57some
00:58:58sort
00:58:59of
00:58:59gesture
00:58:59that
00:58:59shows
00:59:00you
00:59:00are
00:59:00here
00:59:00with
00:59:00now
00:59:00let me
00:59:01jump
00:59:01in
00:59:02now
00:59:02both
00:59:02only
00:59:03went
00:59:05head to
00:59:06head to
00:59:06head
00:59:06just
00:59:07now
00:59:07just
00:59:07now
00:59:07Robert
00:59:10what you're
00:59:12saying is
00:59:12correct
00:59:13if a woman
00:59:14say no
00:59:15no is
00:59:15no
00:59:16right
00:59:16correct
00:59:16right
00:59:17what you're
00:59:17saying about
00:59:18another gesture
00:59:19I do
00:59:20quite
00:59:20agree
00:59:21with you
00:59:21with that
00:59:21because I
00:59:22don't know
00:59:22what the
00:59:22next gesture
00:59:23is right
00:59:24now what
00:59:24I'm saying
00:59:25just say
00:59:26no and
00:59:26punch
00:59:26them
00:59:26right
00:59:29you said
00:59:30before
00:59:31men and
00:59:32because
00:59:33this on
00:59:33camera
00:59:33we could
00:59:34rewind and
00:59:34say you
00:59:35said that
00:59:36men have
00:59:36to be
00:59:36capable of
00:59:37understanding
00:59:38what a
00:59:38woman
00:59:39means
00:59:39now
00:59:39remember
00:59:40when I
00:59:40said
00:59:40I was
00:59:40going
00:59:41back
00:59:41just
00:59:42no
00:59:42but I'm
00:59:43saying
00:59:43no
00:59:44you don't
00:59:45even need
00:59:46to be
00:59:46what I'm
00:59:48saying
00:59:48is
00:59:48about
00:59:48men
00:59:49having
00:59:50the
00:59:50power
00:59:50and
00:59:51everything
00:59:51is our
00:59:52fault
00:59:52men
00:59:52a lot
00:59:53of
00:59:53responsibilities
00:59:54on us
00:59:55to understand
00:59:55what we
00:59:56mean
00:59:56and also
00:59:57what women
00:59:57mean
00:59:58right
00:59:58now
00:59:58you can
00:59:59argue
00:59:59with me
00:59:59this
00:59:59but
01:00:00what you
01:00:00are
01:00:00saying
01:00:01is
01:00:01clearly
01:00:01that
01:00:01and I
01:00:02could
01:00:02show
01:00:02many
01:00:02examples
01:00:03of
01:00:03this
01:00:03that
01:00:04if
01:00:04you
01:00:04have
01:00:05power
01:00:05that
01:00:05means
01:00:05with
01:00:06great
01:00:06power
01:00:06comes
01:00:07great
01:00:07responsibility
01:00:07and
01:00:09understanding
01:00:09sometimes
01:00:10the nuances
01:00:10of a
01:00:11woman
01:00:11might be
01:00:12a high
01:00:13learning
01:00:13curve
01:00:13and
01:00:14thus
01:00:15far
01:00:15what I've
01:00:16seen
01:00:16that's
01:00:17just
01:00:17the
01:00:18burden
01:00:18we
01:00:18have
01:00:18to
01:00:18carry
01:00:19you
01:00:19know
01:00:19about
01:00:20understanding
01:00:20because
01:00:21you
01:00:21meet
01:00:2110
01:00:21different
01:00:21women
01:00:22signals
01:00:23of
01:00:24no
01:00:24yes
01:00:2410
01:00:25different
01:00:25things
01:00:26that
01:00:26you
01:00:26may
01:00:27have
01:00:27to
01:00:27understand
01:00:28or
01:00:28else
01:00:29based
01:00:29on
01:00:29what
01:00:29we
01:00:29seen
01:00:30then
01:00:30you
01:00:31ass
01:00:31grass
01:00:32so
01:00:33understanding
01:00:34the
01:00:35language
01:00:35right
01:00:35so
01:00:36today
01:00:36learn
01:00:36Japanese
01:00:37tomorrow
01:00:37learn
01:00:37Chinese
01:00:38tomorrow
01:00:39learn
01:00:39African
01:00:40tomorrow
01:00:40learning
01:00:40that's
01:00:41just
01:00:41the
01:00:41burden
01:00:42sometimes
01:00:42or
01:00:43the
01:00:43privilege
01:00:43or the
01:00:44power
01:00:44that we
01:00:44have
01:00:44to
01:00:45understand
01:00:45the
01:00:45responsibility
01:00:46that we
01:00:47have
01:00:47when we
01:00:47are dealing
01:00:47with
01:00:48women
01:00:48yeah
01:00:49I agree
01:00:50and I
01:00:50think also
01:00:51understanding
01:00:51the risk
01:00:52right
01:00:52so
01:00:52in me
01:00:53saying
01:00:54this
01:00:54and me
01:00:54advising
01:00:55I don't
01:00:56want to
01:00:56say
01:00:56advising
01:00:56but me
01:00:57just
01:00:57having
01:00:57this
01:00:57discussion
01:00:58it's
01:00:59to let
01:01:00you guys
01:01:00know
01:01:00that
01:01:00that is
01:01:01a very
01:01:01real
01:01:02possibility
01:01:02that
01:01:03you know
01:01:03you could
01:01:04be having
01:01:04sex
01:01:04with a
01:01:05woman
01:01:05and then
01:01:05she says
01:01:06no
01:01:06and next
01:01:06day
01:01:07the police
01:01:08station
01:01:08saying
01:01:09she said
01:01:09no
01:01:09and it
01:01:10would be
01:01:10an actual
01:01:11fact
01:01:11that she
01:01:12did
01:01:12say
01:01:12no
01:01:12even
01:01:13if
01:01:13we
01:01:13were
01:01:13to
01:01:14throw
01:01:14in
01:01:14so
01:01:14let's
01:01:14say
01:01:15we
01:01:15threw
01:01:15in
01:01:15you know
01:01:16maybe
01:01:16drugs
01:01:17or alcohol
01:01:17within the
01:01:18mix
01:01:18right
01:01:18Trinidad
01:01:19has a
01:01:19very big
01:01:20party culture
01:01:21and party
01:01:21scene
01:01:21I know
01:01:23I wasn't
01:01:24living in
01:01:24Trinidad
01:01:24then
01:01:25but
01:01:25there was
01:01:26this
01:01:26what was
01:01:27the drug
01:01:27what's
01:01:27the drug
01:01:28or drink
01:01:28that
01:01:29no
01:01:30now it's
01:01:31Molly
01:01:31but like
01:01:31back in
01:01:32the day
01:01:32there was
01:01:33a drug
01:01:33that they
01:01:34would give
01:01:34Spanish
01:01:35fly
01:01:35correct
01:01:36right
01:01:37it was
01:01:39a very
01:01:42well known
01:01:43fact
01:01:43that if
01:01:44you give
01:01:44a woman
01:01:45Spanish
01:01:45fly
01:01:46she becomes
01:01:47so intoxicated
01:01:48that you're
01:01:48able to
01:01:49have sex
01:01:49with her
01:01:49and it
01:01:49became
01:01:50so
01:01:50but again
01:01:52and so
01:01:53now
01:01:53seeing that
01:01:54that's
01:01:54the culture
01:01:55right
01:01:55we all
01:01:55accept
01:01:56that that's
01:01:56what has
01:01:56happened
01:01:57within the
01:01:57past
01:01:58not the
01:01:58culture
01:01:59but it
01:01:59has
01:01:59happened
01:01:59in the
01:02:00past
01:02:00it's
01:02:00a culture
01:02:01of it
01:02:01happening
01:02:01it's
01:02:02discussed
01:02:02almost as
01:02:03like
01:02:03common
01:02:04knowledge
01:02:04right
01:02:04so
01:02:05we no
01:02:05longer
01:02:05have
01:02:06Spanish
01:02:06fly
01:02:06so
01:02:07let's
01:02:07say
01:02:07now
01:02:07we
01:02:07have
01:02:07no
01:02:07drugs
01:02:08in
01:02:08right
01:02:08so
01:02:08we
01:02:08have
01:02:08molly
01:02:09we
01:02:09have
01:02:09ecstasy
01:02:10so
01:02:10now
01:02:10it's
01:02:10going
01:02:10to be
01:02:10translated
01:02:11into
01:02:11that
01:02:12so
01:02:12then
01:02:12the
01:02:12question
01:02:13becomes
01:02:13if
01:02:14a
01:02:15woman
01:02:15is
01:02:16high
01:02:16on
01:02:16molly
01:02:17high
01:02:18on
01:02:18some
01:02:18kind
01:02:18of
01:02:18ecstasy
01:02:19or
01:02:19that
01:02:19she's
01:02:19drunk
01:02:20and
01:02:20she's
01:02:21saying
01:02:21no
01:02:21then
01:02:22what
01:02:22is
01:02:22the
01:02:23responsibility
01:02:23and
01:02:24or
01:02:24the
01:02:24risk
01:02:25to
01:02:25a
01:02:25man
01:02:25in
01:02:26that
01:02:26situation
01:02:26and
01:02:27these
01:02:27are
01:02:27things
01:02:28that
01:02:28you
01:02:28know
01:02:28as
01:02:28men
01:02:29you
01:02:29just
01:02:29want
01:02:29to
01:02:29think
01:02:29about
01:02:30right
01:02:30and
01:02:31be
01:02:31aware
01:02:31of
01:02:32in
01:02:32the
01:02:32police
01:02:33station
01:02:33and
01:02:33the
01:02:33man
01:02:34says
01:02:34I
01:02:34didn't
01:02:35hear
01:02:35her
01:02:35say
01:02:35no
01:02:36she's
01:02:38already
01:02:38started
01:02:38to
01:02:39say
01:02:39that
01:02:39she
01:02:39consented
01:02:40to
01:02:40sex
01:02:41so
01:02:41they
01:02:41have
01:02:41that
01:02:42on
01:02:42record
01:02:42they
01:02:43consented
01:02:43to
01:02:43sex
01:02:43so
01:02:44the
01:02:44question
01:02:44is
01:02:44did
01:02:45you
01:02:45hear
01:02:45her
01:02:45say
01:02:45no
01:02:46she's
01:02:46said
01:02:47no
01:02:47but
01:02:48she's
01:02:48already
01:02:48agreed
01:02:48that
01:02:49she
01:02:49consented
01:02:49to
01:02:49we
01:02:53are
01:02:53seeing
01:02:54that
01:02:54during
01:02:55sex
01:02:56the
01:02:56woman
01:02:56then
01:02:57says
01:02:57no
01:02:57so
01:02:57at
01:02:57any
01:02:58point
01:02:58she
01:02:58changes
01:02:58her
01:02:59mind
01:02:59no
01:02:59is
01:02:59no
01:02:59right
01:03:00and
01:03:00it's
01:03:00rape
01:03:01and
01:03:01that's
01:03:01what
01:03:01men
01:03:02are
01:03:02hearing
01:03:02and
01:03:03that's
01:03:03what's
01:03:03part
01:03:03of
01:03:03the
01:03:03scariness
01:03:04now
01:03:04if
01:03:04you
01:03:04are
01:03:04taking
01:03:04it
01:03:05forcefully
01:03:05from
01:03:05the
01:03:05start
01:03:06then
01:03:06you
01:03:06know
01:03:06it's
01:03:06obvious
01:03:08the
01:03:08surprising
01:03:09factor
01:03:10here
01:03:10is
01:03:10that
01:03:10during
01:03:11the
01:03:11act
01:03:11if
01:03:12she
01:03:12says
01:03:12no
01:03:13during
01:03:13that
01:03:13point
01:03:14and
01:03:14there's
01:03:15no
01:03:16punch
01:03:16or
01:03:16there's
01:03:16no
01:03:16movement
01:03:17to
01:03:17get
01:03:17out
01:03:17of
01:03:17dodge
01:03:18right
01:03:18that
01:03:19if
01:03:19she
01:03:19goes
01:03:19to
01:03:20the
01:03:20police
01:03:20station
01:03:20the
01:03:20next
01:03:20day
01:03:21you're
01:03:21going
01:03:21to
01:03:22be
01:03:22in
01:03:22shock
01:03:22to
01:03:24then
01:03:25say
01:03:25to
01:03:25yourself
01:03:26I
01:03:27don't
01:03:27understand
01:03:27she
01:03:27consented
01:03:28now
01:03:29when
01:03:29they
01:03:29go
01:03:29to
01:03:29the
01:03:30police
01:03:30office
01:03:30and
01:03:30you
01:03:30say
01:03:30yeah
01:03:31she
01:03:31said
01:03:31no
01:03:32then
01:03:32they
01:03:32have
01:03:32you
01:03:33there
01:03:33for
01:03:33ring
01:03:33but
01:03:34what
01:03:34if
01:03:34you
01:03:34say
01:03:35I
01:03:35didn't
01:03:35hear
01:03:35her
01:03:36but
01:03:44evidence
01:03:45and
01:03:45I
01:03:45guess
01:03:45it's
01:03:46maybe
01:03:46if
01:03:46the
01:03:46matter
01:03:47goes
01:03:47to
01:03:47the
01:03:48judge
01:03:48or
01:03:48the
01:03:48jury
01:03:48but
01:03:50again
01:03:52that's
01:03:53what
01:03:54due
01:03:55process
01:03:55of
01:03:55law
01:03:55is
01:03:56it's
01:03:56going
01:03:56to
01:03:56be
01:03:56your
01:03:56word
01:03:56against
01:03:57hers
01:03:57and
01:03:57you
01:03:57guys
01:03:58go
01:03:58through
01:03:58whatever
01:03:58system
01:03:59you know
01:04:00that's
01:04:01the
01:04:02long run
01:04:02but
01:04:03I
01:04:03might
01:04:04have
01:04:04cut
01:04:04this
01:04:04out
01:04:04or
01:04:04something
01:04:05but
01:04:05this
01:04:05like
01:04:06this
01:04:06right
01:04:06I
01:04:07say
01:04:08that
01:04:08because
01:04:08this
01:04:09I
01:04:09know
01:04:10a couple
01:04:11of
01:04:11people
01:04:12it
01:04:12don't
01:04:13even
01:04:13need
01:04:14to
01:04:14be
01:04:14that
01:04:14serious
01:04:14and
01:04:14there's
01:04:14like
01:04:15I
01:04:15guess
01:04:15woman
01:04:16equality
01:04:16inequality
01:04:17equality
01:04:18with
01:04:18men
01:04:18thing
01:04:18like
01:04:19he
01:04:21get
01:04:21some
01:04:21sex
01:04:21you know
01:04:22the
01:04:23girl
01:04:23like
01:04:23a little
01:04:24choke
01:04:24out
01:04:24a little
01:04:24hard
01:04:25slap
01:04:25cool
01:04:26some
01:04:31days
01:04:31later
01:04:32he
01:04:32and
01:04:33the
01:04:34soldier
01:04:34fall
01:04:34out
01:04:35and
01:04:36she
01:04:36just
01:04:37like
01:04:37that
01:04:37one
01:04:37gone
01:04:37by
01:04:37the
01:04:38police
01:04:38and
01:04:38say
01:04:38yeah
01:04:38when
01:04:39this
01:04:39you
01:04:39raped
01:04:39me
01:04:39look
01:04:40hard
01:04:40slap
01:04:40hard
01:04:41cuff
01:04:41and
01:04:41in
01:04:42his
01:04:42head
01:04:42he
01:04:42thinking
01:04:43but
01:04:43we
01:04:44do
01:04:45this
01:04:45together
01:04:46I
01:04:46take
01:04:46some
01:04:46hard
01:04:47cuff
01:04:47too
01:04:47and
01:04:49at
01:04:50that
01:04:50point
01:04:50police
01:04:51won't
01:04:51take
01:04:52your
01:04:52word
01:04:52for
01:04:52him
01:04:52he
01:04:53won't
01:04:53take
01:04:54a
01:04:54lock
01:04:54up
01:04:54and
01:04:54police
01:04:55won't
01:04:55come
01:04:55by
01:04:55your
01:04:55house
01:04:56and
01:04:56embarrass
01:04:56him
01:04:56man
01:04:57that
01:04:58that
01:04:58man
01:04:58man
01:04:59that
01:05:00is
01:05:00a
01:05:01plight
01:05:01that
01:05:01men
01:05:01have
01:05:02to
01:05:02deal
01:05:02with
01:05:02false
01:05:02allegations
01:05:03and
01:05:04again
01:05:04it
01:05:04would
01:05:05be
01:05:05up
01:05:05to
01:05:05trusting
01:05:05the
01:05:06system
01:05:06right
01:05:07so
01:05:07when
01:05:07you
01:05:07say
01:05:07man
01:05:08is
01:05:08persistent
01:05:09that
01:05:10is
01:05:11the
01:05:11kind
01:05:11of
01:05:11man
01:05:11that
01:05:11must
01:05:12come
01:05:13wrong
01:05:13you
01:05:13or
01:05:13you
01:05:14wrong
01:05:14because
01:05:14I
01:05:14tell
01:05:15me
01:05:15no
01:05:15oh
01:05:18my
01:05:18god
01:05:18yeah
01:05:19you
01:05:19know
01:05:19what
01:05:19I
01:05:19just
01:05:19not
01:05:20into
01:05:20this
01:05:20I
01:05:20write
01:05:21well
01:05:21what
01:05:21so
01:05:21I
01:05:22speak
01:05:22school
01:05:22useless
01:05:23that's
01:05:23you
01:05:24that's
01:05:25not
01:05:25right
01:05:26that's
01:05:26how I
01:05:26think
01:05:26nine
01:05:27to
01:05:27ten
01:05:27minutes
01:05:27that's
01:05:29not
01:05:29around
01:05:29and
01:05:29I
01:05:29think
01:05:30also
01:05:30it
01:05:30comes
01:05:31down
01:05:31to
01:05:31we
01:05:31need
01:05:31to
01:05:31take
01:05:32a
01:05:32break
01:05:32and
01:05:33come
01:05:33back
01:05:33because
01:05:33there's
01:05:33a lot
01:05:34there's
01:05:34a lot
01:05:34in
01:05:34a lot
01:05:35good
01:05:35discussion
01:05:35and
01:05:36we
01:05:36just
01:05:36need
01:05:37to
01:05:37really
01:05:37bring
01:05:37it
01:05:37into
01:05:38focus
01:05:39as to
01:05:39what
01:05:40the
01:05:40message
01:05:40is
01:05:40we
01:05:40understand
01:05:41the
01:05:41message
01:05:41is
01:05:41very
01:05:42clear
01:05:42it's
01:05:43just
01:05:43say
01:05:43no
01:05:43unless
01:05:46that's
01:05:47a part
01:05:47of your
01:05:48safe
01:05:48word
01:05:48and
01:05:50in
01:05:51doing
01:05:51that
01:05:51it
01:05:52also
01:05:52comes
01:05:52down
01:05:53to
01:05:53the
01:05:53type
01:05:55of
01:05:55man
01:05:55because
01:05:56for
01:05:57me
01:05:57being
01:05:58with
01:05:59a
01:05:59woman
01:05:59I
01:05:59want
01:06:00to
01:06:00a
01:06:01big
01:06:01part
01:06:01of
01:06:01me
01:06:01is
01:06:02making
01:06:02sure
01:06:02she's
01:06:02pleasure
01:06:03and
01:06:04if
01:06:04that's
01:06:04a
01:06:05huge
01:06:05part
01:06:05of
01:06:05me
01:06:06wanting
01:06:06to
01:06:06that's
01:06:07where
01:06:07my
01:06:07ego
01:06:07comes
01:06:08in
01:06:08I
01:06:08want
01:06:08to
01:06:08make
01:06:08sure
01:06:08she's
01:06:09pleasure
01:06:09she's
01:06:09had
01:06:09a
01:06:09good
01:06:10time
01:06:10and
01:06:10therefore
01:06:11if
01:06:11in
01:06:11that
01:06:12circumstance
01:06:12that's
01:06:13not
01:06:13happening
01:06:13then
01:06:14any
01:06:15form
01:06:15of
01:06:15know
01:06:16whether
01:06:16it's
01:06:16said
01:06:17or
01:06:18it
01:06:18looks
01:06:19that
01:06:19way
01:06:19or
01:06:19you
01:06:19get
01:06:20a
01:06:20particular
01:06:20vibration
01:06:21I
01:06:21done
01:06:22if
01:06:23a
01:06:23form
01:06:23of
01:06:23being
01:06:23pleasure
01:06:24is
01:06:24forceful
01:06:25then
01:06:26what
01:06:26that's
01:06:27one
01:06:27we
01:06:29could
01:06:29come
01:06:30back
01:06:30from
01:06:30the
01:06:30break
01:06:30with
01:06:31that's
01:06:32a good
01:06:32point
01:06:33whether
01:06:33that's
01:06:34part
01:06:34of
01:06:34what
01:06:35they
01:06:35call
01:06:35for
01:06:35rape
01:06:36those
01:06:36are
01:06:37all
01:06:37scenes
01:06:37that
01:06:37people
01:06:38like
01:06:38to
01:06:38enact
01:06:39and that
01:06:39could be
01:06:39a
01:06:39party
01:06:40of
01:06:40bedromantics
01:06:45take a short
01:06:46break
01:06:46right
01:06:58people
01:06:59so
01:06:59welcome
01:06:59back
01:06:59to
01:07:00the
01:07:00manhood
01:07:00conversation
01:07:01now
01:07:02we
01:07:02discuss
01:07:03many
01:07:03different
01:07:03topics
01:07:04between
01:07:05the
01:07:05dynamics
01:07:05between
01:07:06men
01:07:06and
01:07:06women
01:07:07just
01:07:07say
01:07:08no
01:07:08we
01:07:08talk
01:07:08about
01:07:09equality
01:07:09and
01:07:10we
01:07:11talk
01:07:11about
01:07:11even
01:07:12asking
01:07:13for
01:07:13consent
01:07:13and
01:07:14what
01:07:14constitutes
01:07:15rape
01:07:16and
01:07:16in
01:07:17terms
01:07:17of
01:07:17people
01:07:18in
01:07:18the
01:07:19act
01:07:19of
01:07:20sex
01:07:20that
01:07:21someone
01:07:21could
01:07:21say
01:07:21no
01:07:22and
01:07:23you
01:07:23have
01:07:23to
01:07:24acquiesce
01:07:24to
01:07:24that
01:07:25or else
01:07:25it
01:07:25could
01:07:26be
01:07:26considered
01:07:26rape
01:07:26and
01:07:27we
01:07:27were
01:07:27trying
01:07:27to
01:07:27figure
01:07:27out
01:07:28exactly
01:07:28how
01:07:29we
01:07:29would
01:07:29know
01:07:29what
01:07:30no
01:07:30is
01:07:31we
01:07:31discuss
01:07:31no
01:07:31means
01:07:32no
01:07:32and
01:07:33just
01:07:34just
01:07:34combining
01:07:35with
01:07:35some
01:07:35of
01:07:35those
01:07:35dynamics
01:07:36because
01:07:36I
01:07:37found
01:07:37some
01:07:37research
01:07:38from
01:07:39New
01:07:39York
01:07:39where
01:07:40affirmative
01:07:41consent
01:07:42was
01:07:42actually
01:07:43implemented
01:07:43in
01:07:44law
01:07:46dynamic
01:07:46surrounding
01:07:47it
01:07:47so
01:07:47I
01:07:47just
01:07:47read
01:07:48it
01:07:48quickly
01:07:48police
01:07:49and
01:07:50defense
01:07:50attorneys
01:07:51may
01:07:51no
01:07:52longer
01:07:52present
01:07:52the
01:07:53victim's
01:07:53lack
01:07:54of
01:07:54refusal
01:07:54during
01:07:55sex
01:07:55as
01:07:55evidence
01:07:56of
01:07:57non-consent
01:07:59because
01:08:00they were
01:08:00saying that
01:08:01once you
01:08:01sign
01:08:02the
01:08:02document
01:08:02now
01:08:03there's
01:08:03an actual
01:08:03document
01:08:04for
01:08:05affirmative
01:08:05consent
01:08:06where
01:08:06before
01:08:07two
01:08:07people
01:08:07have
01:08:08sex
01:08:08they
01:08:09actually
01:08:09have
01:08:09to
01:08:09sign
01:08:09something
01:08:10saying
01:08:10that
01:08:10they
01:08:10both
01:08:10consented
01:08:11and
01:08:12they
01:08:12saying
01:08:12once
01:08:13they
01:08:13signed
01:08:13neither
01:08:14person
01:08:15could
01:08:16refuse
01:08:16in
01:08:17the
01:08:17middle
01:08:17of
01:08:17sex
01:08:18now
01:08:18this
01:08:18is
01:08:19important
01:08:19because
01:08:19it
01:08:20kind of
01:08:20even
01:08:20negates
01:08:21what
01:08:21we
01:08:21were
01:08:21talking
01:08:21about
01:08:22and
01:08:23this
01:08:23is
01:08:23important
01:08:24for me
01:08:24because
01:08:25human
01:08:25dynamics
01:08:26are such
01:08:27a fluid
01:08:28thing
01:08:29and
01:08:30really
01:08:31understanding
01:08:31when is
01:08:33no
01:08:34what means
01:08:34no
01:08:35what's
01:08:35the
01:08:35norms
01:08:37of the
01:08:37dating
01:08:37culture
01:08:38should I
01:08:38keep
01:08:39pursuing
01:08:39it
01:08:41it
01:08:41really
01:08:41brings
01:08:41into
01:08:41question
01:08:42that
01:08:42gray
01:08:42area
01:08:43now
01:08:43personally
01:08:44I
01:08:44say
01:08:45if
01:08:45somebody
01:08:46say
01:08:46no
01:08:46is
01:08:46no
01:08:47whether
01:08:47it
01:08:47is
01:08:47male
01:08:48or
01:08:48female
01:08:48if
01:08:48somebody
01:08:49say
01:08:49no
01:08:49they
01:08:49don't
01:08:49want
01:08:49to
01:08:49do
01:08:49something
01:08:50is
01:08:50no
01:08:50also
01:08:51I
01:08:52think
01:08:52most
01:08:52times
01:08:53and I
01:08:53could
01:08:53be
01:08:53wrong
01:08:54that
01:08:54you
01:08:55could
01:08:55feel
01:08:55the
01:08:55energy
01:08:56when
01:08:56somebody
01:08:56don't
01:08:56want
01:08:57to
01:08:57do
01:08:57something
01:08:57I
01:08:57say
01:08:57most
01:08:58times
01:08:58because
01:08:58again
01:08:59this
01:08:59human
01:08:59dynamics
01:09:00and as
01:09:00I
01:09:00was
01:09:01saying
01:09:01before
01:09:01with
01:09:02us
01:09:02men
01:09:02we
01:09:03have
01:09:03the
01:09:03privilege
01:09:05and
01:09:05responsibility
01:09:06and the
01:09:06learning
01:09:06curve
01:09:07of
01:09:07figuring
01:09:07out
01:09:08what
01:09:08every
01:09:08woman
01:09:08we
01:09:09interact
01:09:09with
01:09:09means
01:09:10in
01:09:10certain
01:09:10scenarios
01:09:11so
01:09:11I'm
01:09:12saying
01:09:13that
01:09:13we
01:09:14men
01:09:14because
01:09:16we
01:09:16have
01:09:16power
01:09:16in
01:09:17certain
01:09:17scenarios
01:09:17we
01:09:18could
01:09:18be
01:09:18responsible
01:09:19with
01:09:19our
01:09:19power
01:09:20to
01:09:20ensure
01:09:21because
01:09:21if
01:09:22even
01:09:23if a
01:09:23woman
01:09:23say
01:09:24that
01:09:24she
01:09:25consents
01:09:25yes
01:09:25she
01:09:26want
01:09:26to
01:09:26have
01:09:26sex
01:09:26with
01:09:26you
01:09:27based
01:09:27on
01:09:27the
01:09:27law
01:09:28if
01:09:28in
01:09:28the
01:09:28lovely
01:09:29sexual
01:09:29act
01:09:29she
01:09:29says
01:09:30no
01:09:30and
01:09:31she
01:09:31goes
01:09:32and
01:09:32reported
01:09:32it
01:09:32could
01:09:33be
01:09:33considered
01:09:33rape
01:09:34so
01:09:34you
01:09:35know
01:09:35they
01:09:35say
01:09:35knowledge
01:09:35is
01:09:36power
01:09:36so
01:09:36understanding
01:09:37that
01:09:37this
01:09:37is
01:09:37the
01:09:37reality
01:09:38of
01:09:38things
01:09:38could
01:09:39be
01:09:40based
01:09:40you
01:09:41could
01:09:41put
01:09:41it
01:09:41in
01:09:41your
01:09:42mind
01:09:42so
01:09:42that
01:09:42when
01:09:42you
01:09:42need
01:09:43the
01:09:43dating
01:09:43scenario
01:09:44this
01:09:44is
01:09:44something
01:09:45to
01:09:45consider
01:09:45now
01:09:46it
01:09:46might
01:09:47be
01:09:47a
01:09:47lot
01:09:47but
01:09:48if
01:09:48this
01:09:48is
01:09:48the
01:09:49reality
01:09:49right
01:09:49now
01:09:49it
01:09:49better
01:09:50to
01:09:50face
01:09:58head
01:09:59after
01:09:59hearing
01:09:59something
01:09:59like
01:10:00this
01:10:00on
01:10:00manhood
01:10:00imagine
01:10:01you
01:10:01in the
01:10:01middle
01:10:01of
01:10:02the
01:10:02act
01:10:02and
01:10:02a
01:10:02woman
01:10:03says
01:10:03no
01:10:03meaning
01:10:03it
01:10:04might
01:10:04touch
01:10:05another
01:10:05orifice
01:10:06or
01:10:07something
01:10:07might
01:10:07happen
01:10:08and
01:10:08you
01:10:08might
01:10:11start
01:10:11a
01:10:11pull
01:10:11back
01:10:12and
01:10:12all
01:10:12of
01:10:12sudden
01:10:12it's
01:10:13floppy
01:10:13loppy
01:10:13you're
01:10:14done
01:10:14you're
01:10:15not
01:10:16even
01:10:16interested
01:10:16again
01:10:17because
01:10:18the
01:10:19anxiety
01:10:19you might
01:10:20be feeling
01:10:20that
01:10:21point
01:10:21at
01:10:21any
01:10:21kind
01:10:22of
01:10:22thing
01:10:22she
01:10:22might
01:10:22be
01:10:22no
01:10:23to
01:10:23that
01:10:23position
01:10:24no
01:10:24it
01:10:24hurts
01:10:25and
01:10:25you
01:10:25just
01:10:27say
01:10:27no
01:10:27and
01:10:28fly
01:10:28off
01:10:28like
01:10:29okay
01:10:29it
01:10:31could
01:10:31throw
01:10:33men
01:10:33off
01:10:33in a
01:10:34big way
01:10:35so
01:10:35women
01:10:36also
01:10:36have
01:10:36to
01:10:36know
01:10:36that
01:10:37if
01:10:37you
01:10:37say
01:10:37no
01:10:38and
01:10:38you're
01:10:38not
01:10:38saying
01:10:39no
01:10:39with
01:10:39a
01:10:40certain
01:10:41element
01:10:41of
01:10:41force
01:10:41I'm
01:10:42not
01:10:42saying
01:10:42you
01:10:42can't
01:10:42be
01:10:43overpowered
01:10:43I'm
01:10:44saying
01:10:44where
01:10:44no
01:10:44the
01:10:45man
01:10:45might
01:10:45inherit
01:10:45or
01:10:47no
01:10:47meaning
01:10:47the
01:10:48man
01:10:48might
01:10:48understand
01:10:49specifically
01:10:49where
01:10:50you're
01:10:50coming
01:10:50from
01:10:50no
01:10:51is
01:10:51no
01:10:51and
01:10:51I'm
01:10:51not
01:10:51arguing
01:10:52with
01:10:52that
01:10:52I'm
01:10:53just
01:10:53saying
01:10:53that
01:10:54if
01:10:54you
01:10:54know
01:10:55and
01:10:55you
01:10:55can
01:10:57be
01:10:57in
01:10:57a
01:10:58situation
01:10:58where
01:10:58you start
01:10:59to get
01:10:59a lot
01:11:00of
01:11:00paranoid
01:11:00men
01:11:00out
01:11:01there
01:11:01well
01:11:02can I
01:11:02just
01:11:03say
01:11:03I
01:11:03think
01:11:03Robert
01:11:04I
01:11:05think
01:11:05it's
01:11:06interesting
01:11:06that
01:11:07in a
01:11:07discussion
01:11:07about
01:11:08consensual
01:11:11sex
01:11:11and
01:11:12a woman
01:11:12saying
01:11:13no
01:11:13meaning
01:11:14indicating
01:11:15she no
01:11:15longer
01:11:15wants to
01:11:16have
01:11:16sex
01:11:16with
01:11:16this
01:11:17person
01:11:17and
01:11:18that
01:11:18could
01:11:18be
01:11:18for
01:11:18very
01:11:18different
01:11:19reasons
01:11:19that
01:11:20your
01:11:20concern
01:11:20is
01:11:21how
01:11:22the
01:11:22man
01:11:22thinks
01:11:23how
01:11:24the
01:11:24man
01:11:24reacts
01:11:26to
01:11:26hearing
01:11:26no
01:11:27seems
01:11:28to be
01:11:28your
01:11:29concern
01:11:29as
01:11:30opposed
01:11:30to
01:11:31the
01:11:31state
01:11:32that
01:11:32the
01:11:32woman
01:11:32is
01:11:33in
01:11:33that
01:11:34brings
01:11:35her
01:11:36to
01:11:36where
01:11:36she
01:11:36has
01:11:36to
01:11:37say
01:11:37no
01:11:37right
01:11:37so
01:11:38in
01:11:38that
01:11:39this
01:11:39is
01:11:39manhood
01:11:40the
01:11:41whole
01:11:42aim
01:11:42of
01:11:43this
01:11:43show
01:11:43is
01:11:43to
01:11:43reach
01:11:44men
01:11:44and
01:11:44young
01:11:45men
01:11:45and
01:11:45to
01:11:46give
01:11:46them
01:11:46advice
01:11:46and
01:11:47to
01:11:47let
01:11:47them
01:11:47know
01:11:47where
01:11:48they
01:11:48stand
01:11:48so
01:11:48it's
01:11:48not
01:11:49one
01:11:50concern
01:11:50over
01:11:50another
01:11:51just
01:11:52saying
01:11:52no
01:11:52is
01:11:52no
01:11:53and
01:11:53of
01:11:53course
01:11:53we
01:11:54want
01:11:54how
01:11:54we
01:11:54show
01:11:55up
01:11:55and
01:11:55I
01:11:56don't
01:11:57believe
01:11:57in
01:11:57domestic
01:11:58violence
01:11:58I
01:11:58don't
01:11:58believe
01:11:59in
01:11:59abuse
01:11:59of
01:11:59women
01:11:59I
01:12:00don't
01:12:00believe
01:12:00in
01:12:00non-equality
01:12:01so
01:12:02I'm
01:12:02saying
01:12:02to
01:12:02you
01:12:03that
01:12:03what
01:12:03my
01:12:04concern
01:12:04is
01:12:04to
01:12:05be
01:12:05able
01:12:06to
01:12:06express
01:12:06to
01:12:06the
01:12:06young
01:12:07men
01:12:07and
01:12:07men
01:12:07listening
01:12:08here
01:12:08to
01:12:09be
01:12:09able
01:12:09to
01:12:09say
01:12:09okay
01:12:09well
01:12:09I'm
01:12:10asking
01:12:18in
01:12:18your
01:12:19consideration
01:12:19even
01:12:20if
01:12:20we're
01:12:20saying
01:12:20no
01:12:20and
01:12:21even
01:12:21if
01:12:21we're
01:12:21saying
01:12:22that
01:12:22violence
01:12:23of any
01:12:24kind
01:12:24could
01:12:24never
01:12:25be
01:12:25accepted
01:12:25a woman
01:12:26should
01:12:26also
01:12:27know
01:12:27that
01:12:27listen
01:12:27it
01:12:29wouldn't
01:12:29go
01:12:30against
01:12:31you
01:12:31to
01:12:31understand
01:12:32triggers
01:12:33to
01:12:33understand
01:12:34that
01:12:34this
01:12:34is
01:12:34how
01:12:35you
01:12:35can
01:12:35assist
01:12:36so
01:12:37you
01:12:38should
01:12:38make
01:12:38your
01:12:39no
01:12:39a
01:12:40little
01:12:41more
01:12:42powerful
01:12:43a
01:12:43little
01:12:43more
01:12:43powerful
01:12:44so
01:12:44the
01:12:44man
01:12:44knows
01:12:45that
01:12:45so
01:12:46no
01:12:46so
01:12:47then
01:12:48the
01:12:48term
01:12:49no
01:12:49means
01:12:50no
01:12:50is
01:12:52is that
01:12:53right
01:12:53or
01:12:54is it
01:12:55no
01:12:55plus
01:12:55look it
01:12:56so
01:12:57it's
01:12:57no
01:12:57means
01:12:58no
01:12:58but
01:12:58loud
01:12:58enough
01:12:59for
01:12:59the
01:13:00man
01:13:00to
01:13:00hear
01:13:00and
01:13:01forceful
01:13:02enough
01:13:02for him
01:13:03to
01:13:03understand
01:13:03that
01:13:03you
01:13:04mean
01:13:04it
01:13:04so
01:13:05then
01:13:05it's
01:13:05not
01:13:06really
01:13:06no
01:13:06means
01:13:06no
01:13:06it's
01:13:07no
01:13:07means
01:13:07no
01:13:07plus
01:13:07all
01:13:07these
01:13:08other
01:13:08factors
01:13:08and
01:13:08I
01:13:09just
01:13:09think
01:13:10it
01:13:10would
01:13:10be
01:13:10more
01:13:10beneficial
01:13:11to
01:13:11men
01:13:11if
01:13:12from
01:13:13you
01:13:13hear
01:13:13no
01:13:14to
01:13:15relieve
01:13:15yourself
01:13:16of
01:13:16any
01:13:16risk
01:13:16of
01:13:17any
01:13:17kind
01:13:18of
01:13:18unwanted
01:13:19I'm
01:13:19not
01:13:20saying
01:13:20just
01:13:20be
01:13:20paranoid
01:13:21I'm
01:13:21just
01:13:21saying
01:13:22be
01:13:22careful
01:13:22because
01:13:22this
01:13:23is
01:13:23what
01:13:23the
01:13:23reality
01:13:24is
01:13:24no
01:13:25but
01:13:25that's
01:13:25how
01:13:25the
01:13:25game
01:13:25is
01:13:26why
01:13:26everybody
01:13:27this
01:13:27do
01:13:27apply
01:13:28to
01:13:28everybody
01:13:28like
01:13:29certain
01:13:29people
01:13:29like
01:13:30yeah
01:13:31nothing
01:13:32to lose
01:13:32though
01:13:33yeah
01:13:33yeah
01:13:33absolutely
01:13:34if I
01:13:35think
01:13:35just
01:13:35say
01:13:35I'm
01:13:37somebody
01:13:38in
01:13:38the
01:13:38right
01:13:38mind
01:13:39might
01:13:39be
01:13:39like
01:13:39you
01:13:39where
01:13:45do
01:13:45you
01:13:45draw
01:13:45the
01:13:45line
01:13:46you
01:13:46know
01:13:46you
01:13:46spoke
01:13:46about
01:13:47choking
01:13:48or
01:13:49that
01:13:50sort
01:13:50of
01:13:50sexual
01:13:51play
01:13:51where
01:13:52do
01:13:52you
01:13:52draw
01:13:52the
01:13:52line
01:13:52sexual
01:13:53proclivity
01:13:54is
01:13:55it's
01:13:56a
01:13:56different
01:13:56conversation
01:13:57in
01:13:57itself
01:13:58right
01:13:58we
01:13:58have
01:13:58time
01:13:58to
01:13:59talk
01:13:59about
01:13:59I
01:14:01you
01:14:02know
01:14:02I
01:14:03again
01:14:03I'm
01:14:03not
01:14:04I'm
01:14:04not
01:14:04a
01:14:04sex
01:14:04therapist
01:14:05and
01:14:05I
01:14:05don't
01:14:05feel
01:14:05like
01:14:05I
01:14:06have
01:14:06much
01:14:06to
01:14:07say
01:14:07on
01:14:08sex
01:14:08or
01:14:08that's
01:14:09probably
01:14:09a
01:14:09horrible
01:14:10thing
01:14:10to
01:14:10say
01:14:10but
01:14:11I
01:14:12think
01:14:12that's
01:14:13different
01:14:13I
01:14:13think
01:14:13discussions
01:14:14about
01:14:14what
01:14:14you
01:14:14like
01:14:15in
01:14:15sex
01:14:15or
01:14:16even
01:14:16a
01:14:17check
01:14:17in
01:14:17in
01:14:17like
01:14:17you
01:14:18know
01:14:18do
01:14:18you
01:14:18like
01:14:18this
01:14:19is
01:14:19this
01:14:19okay
01:14:19you
01:14:20can
01:14:20get
01:14:20verbal
01:14:21or
01:14:21nonverbal
01:14:21cues
01:14:22of whether
01:14:22or not
01:14:22you
01:14:23should
01:14:23continue
01:14:23or not
01:14:24continue
01:14:24so
01:14:24there
01:14:24are
01:14:24cues
01:14:25I
01:14:25think
01:14:25there
01:14:26I'm
01:14:26not
01:14:26saying
01:14:26there
01:14:26there
01:14:27is
01:14:27so
01:14:27there
01:14:27could
01:14:28be
01:14:28cues
01:14:28in
01:14:28no
01:14:29a
01:14:29cue
01:14:29to
01:14:29say
01:14:30no
01:14:31off
01:14:31or
01:14:32no
01:14:32stop
01:14:32I'm
01:14:34just
01:14:34saying
01:14:34the
01:14:34cue
01:14:35is
01:14:35there
01:14:35body
01:14:36language
01:14:36if
01:14:38it
01:14:38is
01:14:38you
01:14:38choke
01:14:39out
01:14:39and
01:14:39hit
01:14:39your
01:14:39ass
01:14:40like
01:14:40pow
01:14:40and
01:14:41then
01:14:41sex
01:14:41why
01:14:42are you
01:14:42calling
01:14:42it
01:14:43a
01:14:43thing
01:14:43I
01:14:44know
01:14:44what
01:14:44is
01:14:45that
01:14:45you
01:14:46talk
01:14:48man
01:14:49you
01:14:50talk
01:14:50because
01:14:51we
01:14:51if
01:14:52I
01:14:53if
01:14:54I
01:14:55and
01:14:58end
01:14:59up
01:14:59and
01:15:00next
01:15:02time
01:15:02around
01:15:03here
01:15:03now
01:15:03I
01:15:04look
01:15:04and
01:15:05hit
01:15:05that
01:15:05same
01:15:05heart
01:15:05slap
01:15:06again
01:15:06and
01:15:06she
01:15:06had
01:15:07a
01:15:07flinch
01:15:07up
01:15:07and
01:15:07then
01:15:09yeah
01:15:09okay
01:15:09cool
01:15:09no
01:15:10heart
01:15:10slap
01:15:10again
01:15:11because
01:15:12that's
01:15:12too
01:15:12it's
01:15:13a cue
01:15:13and
01:15:14again
01:15:14that's
01:15:14that's
01:15:15picking
01:15:15up on
01:15:15the
01:15:15cues
01:15:15too
01:15:16which
01:15:16I
01:15:16think
01:15:16is
01:15:16safe
01:15:17so
01:15:17again
01:15:18this
01:15:19is
01:15:19a
01:15:19topic
01:15:19that
01:15:20we
01:15:21will
01:15:21continue
01:15:21to
01:15:21talk
01:15:21about
01:15:22in
01:15:22manhood
01:15:22and
01:15:22we
01:15:23continue
01:15:23to
01:15:23have
01:15:23these
01:15:23conversations
01:15:24and
01:15:25I
01:15:25want
01:15:26people
01:15:26to
01:15:26know
01:15:26that
01:15:26nothing
01:15:27that
01:15:27was
01:15:27discussed
01:15:28is a
01:15:28specific
01:15:29opinion
01:15:29of
01:15:30anyone
01:15:30it's
01:15:31a
01:15:31discussion
01:15:32here
01:15:32to
01:15:32meet
01:15:33people
01:15:33where
01:15:33they're
01:15:33at
01:15:33and
01:15:34to
01:15:34have
01:15:34everyone
01:15:35know
01:15:35everyone's
01:15:36thinking
01:15:36their own
01:15:37thoughts
01:15:37and
01:15:38it's
01:15:38about
01:15:38trying
01:15:39to
01:15:40have
01:15:40a
01:15:41discussion
01:15:41around
01:15:42that
01:15:42and
01:15:43sometimes
01:15:43a
01:15:44heated
01:15:44discussion
01:15:44but
01:15:45it's
01:15:45a
01:15:45very
01:15:45powerful
01:15:45discussion
01:15:46and
01:15:46a
01:15:46positive
01:15:47one
01:15:47in
01:15:47the
01:15:47end
01:15:47because
01:15:48the
01:15:48end
01:15:49result
01:15:49is
01:15:49always
01:15:49to
01:15:50make
01:15:50a
01:15:50positive
01:15:50change
01:15:51so
01:15:52if we
01:15:53can
01:15:53have
01:15:53some
01:15:54context
01:15:54what's
01:15:55your
01:15:55takeaways
01:15:56on that
01:15:56let me
01:15:56start
01:15:56with
01:15:57Shireen
01:15:57on what
01:15:58on
01:15:59just
01:15:59say
01:15:59no
01:15:59on the
01:16:00topics
01:16:00today
01:16:00do you
01:16:01feel
01:16:01that
01:16:02you've
01:16:02been
01:16:02heard
01:16:02I
01:16:03do
01:16:03I
01:16:04think
01:16:04that
01:16:05this
01:16:05forum
01:16:06and
01:16:06this
01:16:06outlet
01:16:06is
01:16:07necessary
01:16:07because
01:16:08our
01:16:09world
01:16:10is
01:16:10changing
01:16:10right
01:16:10and
01:16:11so
01:16:11fast
01:16:13so
01:16:13rapidly
01:16:14and
01:16:14I
01:16:15think
01:16:15men
01:16:16and
01:16:16or
01:16:16women
01:16:17really
01:16:17shouldn't
01:16:18be
01:16:18caught
01:16:18up
01:16:19and
01:16:19saying
01:16:19I
01:16:19didn't
01:16:20know
01:16:20that
01:16:20it
01:16:20was
01:16:20like
01:16:21this
01:16:21or
01:16:21I
01:16:21didn't
01:16:22know
01:16:22that
01:16:22this
01:16:22is
01:16:22how
01:16:22it
01:16:22is
01:16:23now
01:16:23right
01:16:24so
01:16:24having
01:16:25these
01:16:25discussions
01:16:25and
01:16:26having
01:16:26these
01:16:26forums
01:16:26and
01:16:27understanding
01:16:27the
01:16:27risk
01:16:28of
01:16:28setting
01:16:29actions
01:16:29to
01:16:30both
01:16:30men
01:16:30and
01:16:30women
01:16:31I
01:16:31think
01:16:31is
01:16:32very
01:16:32important
01:16:32with
01:16:34regards
01:16:34to
01:16:34equality
01:16:35what
01:16:36are
01:16:36some
01:16:36of
01:16:36things
01:16:36you
01:16:37want
01:16:37to
01:16:37see
01:16:37apart
01:16:38from
01:16:38just
01:16:38pay
01:16:38or
01:16:39position
01:16:39how
01:16:40can
01:16:40someone
01:16:41meet
01:16:41sort
01:16:42of
01:16:42an
01:16:42immediate
01:16:43change
01:16:43low
01:16:44hanging
01:16:44fruit
01:16:45and
01:16:45then
01:16:45grow
01:16:45to
01:16:46having
01:16:46a
01:16:46better
01:16:46understanding
01:16:47of
01:16:48what
01:16:48women
01:16:48are
01:16:48going
01:16:49through
01:16:49and
01:16:49feeling
01:16:49well
01:16:50I
01:16:50always
01:16:51say
01:16:51that
01:16:51I
01:16:51think
01:16:52violence
01:16:53against
01:16:53women
01:16:53is
01:16:53heavily
01:16:54perpetrated
01:16:54on
01:16:55men's
01:16:56assumption
01:16:59of
01:16:59women
01:17:00or
01:17:00what
01:17:00men
01:17:01think
01:17:01of
01:17:01women
01:17:01so
01:17:02I
01:17:02think
01:17:02if
01:17:03men
01:17:03were
01:17:03to
01:17:03change
01:17:04how
01:17:04they
01:17:04see
01:17:05and
01:17:05or
01:17:05view
01:17:05women
01:17:06and
01:17:06it
01:17:06could
01:17:06be
01:17:06small
01:17:06things
01:17:07you
01:17:07know
01:17:07like
01:17:07Chinese
01:17:08not
01:17:08calling
01:17:08them
01:17:08thing
01:17:09right
01:17:09maybe
01:17:11I'm
01:17:12not to
01:17:12blame
01:17:13you
01:17:13but
01:17:13you
01:17:14know
01:17:14less
01:17:15objectification
01:17:16I think
01:17:17those
01:17:17kind of
01:17:17really
01:17:18small
01:17:18low
01:17:18hanging
01:17:19fruit
01:17:19things
01:17:20is
01:17:20what
01:17:20can
01:17:20really
01:17:21change
01:17:21the
01:17:22culture
01:17:22of
01:17:23men
01:17:23towards
01:17:23women
01:17:24yeah
01:17:24that's
01:17:27a
01:17:27whole
01:17:28other
01:17:28topic
01:17:28I'd like
01:17:29because
01:17:29you
01:17:29mentioned
01:17:29objectification
01:17:30but
01:17:30women
01:17:30like
01:17:31men
01:17:32you
01:17:32want
01:17:32to
01:17:32feel
01:17:33do
01:17:34not
01:17:34say
01:17:36what
01:17:37women
01:17:37you
01:17:38think
01:17:38women
01:17:38want
01:17:38to
01:17:39feel
01:17:39I
01:17:39agree
01:17:39I
01:17:40stand
01:17:41up
01:17:41I've
01:17:44often
01:17:45heard
01:17:45about
01:17:45the
01:17:45battle
01:17:46of
01:17:46the
01:17:46sexes
01:17:47right
01:17:47and
01:17:47I
01:17:47know
01:17:48sometimes
01:17:48we
01:17:48do
01:17:48it
01:17:48in
01:17:48our
01:17:49joking
01:17:49manner
01:17:49so
01:17:49I'm
01:17:50not
01:17:50taking
01:17:50away
01:17:50from
01:17:50the
01:17:50joke
01:17:51and
01:17:51the
01:17:51fun
01:17:51of
01:17:51it
01:17:52but
01:17:52inevitably
01:17:53I
01:17:54don't
01:17:54believe
01:17:55in
01:17:55the
01:17:55battle
01:17:55of
01:17:55the
01:17:56sexes
01:17:56because
01:17:56nobody
01:17:57wins
01:17:57so
01:17:58it
01:17:58don't
01:17:58make
01:17:58sense
01:17:59that
01:17:59we
01:17:59fight
01:18:00in
01:18:00each
01:18:00other
01:18:00I
01:18:01advocate
01:18:02for
01:18:02truth
01:18:02and
01:18:08both
01:18:09men
01:18:09and
01:18:09women
01:18:10say
01:18:10exactly
01:18:11what
01:18:12you
01:18:12mean
01:18:12say
01:18:13exactly
01:18:13how
01:18:13you
01:18:13feel
01:18:14right
01:18:14what
01:18:15you
01:18:15like
01:18:15what
01:18:15you
01:18:15don't
01:18:16like
01:18:16and
01:18:16be
01:18:17honest
01:18:17with
01:18:17yourself
01:18:18so
01:18:18even
01:18:18going
01:18:19before
01:18:20being
01:18:20honest
01:18:20with
01:18:20someone
01:18:21else
01:18:21right
01:18:22first
01:18:22men
01:18:23be
01:18:23honest
01:18:23with
01:18:24yourself
01:18:24in
01:18:25terms
01:18:25of
01:18:25what
01:18:25you
01:18:26want
01:18:26from
01:18:26a
01:18:26woman
01:18:26what
01:18:27you
01:18:27what
01:18:28you
01:18:28willing
01:18:28to
01:18:28do
01:18:28what
01:18:28you
01:18:29don't
01:18:29want
01:18:29to
01:18:29do
01:18:30etc
01:18:30also
01:18:31I
01:18:32still
01:18:32add
01:18:32in
01:18:33that
01:18:33men
01:18:33we
01:18:34have
01:18:35to
01:18:35ensure
01:18:35and
01:18:35learn
01:18:36every
01:18:36language
01:18:36of
01:18:37every
01:18:37woman
01:18:37that
01:18:37we
01:18:37know
01:18:38so
01:18:38that
01:18:38we
01:18:38can
01:18:39navigate
01:18:39it
01:18:39properly
01:18:40whether
01:18:40you
01:18:40find
01:18:40that
01:18:41hard
01:18:41or
01:18:41difficult
01:18:41right
01:18:42now
01:18:42there's
01:18:42reality
01:18:43that I
01:18:46see
01:18:47and
01:18:48talking
01:18:49to
01:18:49the
01:18:49men
01:18:50older
01:18:51men
01:18:51younger
01:18:51men
01:18:51I'm
01:18:52always
01:18:52willing
01:18:53to be
01:18:53proven
01:18:53wrong
01:18:54but
01:18:54we
01:18:55no means
01:18:56no
01:18:56either
01:18:56way
01:18:57we
01:18:57take
01:18:57it
01:18:57and
01:18:58let's
01:18:59not
01:18:59fight
01:18:59each
01:19:00other
01:19:00let's
01:19:00hear
01:19:01each
01:19:01other
01:19:01out
01:19:02and
01:19:02so
01:19:02we
01:19:02could
01:19:03make
01:19:03a
01:19:03healthier
01:19:03society
01:19:04me
01:19:07I
01:19:07think
01:19:08no means
01:19:09nothing
01:19:09pretty easy
01:19:10in my
01:19:11opinion
01:19:12I think
01:19:12no
01:19:12that's
01:19:12great
01:19:13that's
01:19:13really good
01:19:13cool
01:19:15if somebody
01:19:15say no
01:19:16move on
01:19:18with your
01:19:18life
01:19:18you know
01:19:18what I mean
01:19:19that's
01:19:19a weird
01:19:19thing
01:19:20you could
01:19:20be doing
01:19:20that's
01:19:21running
01:19:21wrong
01:19:21what's
01:19:23not
01:19:23for you
01:19:23to get
01:19:24yourself
01:19:24in a big
01:19:25mom's
01:19:25pants
01:19:25and
01:19:26just
01:19:26say
01:19:26if you
01:19:27talk
01:19:27about
01:19:27sex
01:19:27you know
01:19:28and
01:19:29then
01:19:29I
01:19:29wasn't
01:19:29here
01:19:29for
01:19:29the
01:19:30equality
01:19:30part
01:19:30but
01:19:31equality
01:19:31thing
01:19:31if you
01:19:32asked me
01:19:32about
01:19:32that
01:19:33that's
01:19:33a
01:19:33whole
01:19:33next
01:19:33thing
01:19:34because
01:19:34I
01:19:34don't
01:19:34find
01:19:35I
01:19:35have
01:19:36any
01:19:36man
01:19:36woman
01:19:37inequality
01:19:37I know
01:19:39women
01:19:39making
01:19:39more money
01:19:40than men
01:19:41in the same
01:19:42position
01:19:42that she
01:19:43said
01:19:43like how
01:19:43she was
01:19:43saying
01:19:44she and
01:19:45homeboy
01:19:46come into
01:19:46the same
01:19:47time
01:19:47and
01:19:47he
01:19:48ended up
01:19:48making
01:19:48more money
01:19:49than she
01:19:49was
01:19:49making
01:19:50but I
01:19:50know
01:19:50it's
01:19:51in the
01:19:51opposite
01:19:51I
01:19:52work
01:19:52in places
01:19:53where
01:19:53the secretary
01:19:53making
01:19:53more money
01:19:54than me
01:19:54why
01:19:55why you
01:19:56think
01:19:56there you
01:19:58go
01:19:58so the
01:20:00inequality
01:20:00thing
01:20:00and equality
01:20:01thing
01:20:01I don't
01:20:02think
01:20:02there's a
01:20:03million
01:20:04people in
01:20:05the issue
01:20:05but a big
01:20:06super big
01:20:07issue that I
01:20:08find
01:20:08is something
01:20:09that happens
01:20:10and she
01:20:10not plenty
01:20:11in terms of
01:20:12work
01:20:12on those
01:20:14kind of
01:20:14things
01:20:14so I
01:20:16would like
01:20:17to close
01:20:18by just
01:20:18saying
01:20:19I know
01:20:20Shireen
01:20:20is probably
01:20:20really wanting
01:20:21to retort
01:20:22to that
01:20:23statement
01:20:23but what
01:20:25it comes
01:20:25down to
01:20:26is
01:20:26what we
01:20:27can't
01:20:27agree
01:20:28on
01:20:28Shireen
01:20:28and guys
01:20:29we can't
01:20:30agree
01:20:30there is
01:20:31a movement
01:20:31there clearly
01:20:33was a
01:20:34disconnect
01:20:34and there
01:20:35still is
01:20:36an ongoing
01:20:36disconnect
01:20:37I mean
01:20:37the western
01:20:38hemisphere
01:20:38is a bit
01:20:38more
01:20:39pronounced
01:20:40in terms
01:20:40of the
01:20:41changes
01:20:41that are
01:20:41being
01:20:42made
01:20:42as opposed
01:20:43to
01:20:43some
01:20:44other
01:20:44countries
01:20:46and with
01:20:49that being
01:20:49said
01:20:49there needs
01:20:51to be
01:20:51changed
01:20:51human
01:20:52is human
01:20:52the position
01:20:54is the
01:20:54position
01:20:55and may
01:20:56the right
01:20:56person
01:20:59get the
01:21:00job
01:21:00and there
01:21:01are just
01:21:01certain
01:21:02positions
01:21:03that are
01:21:03better suited
01:21:05to a
01:21:06male
01:21:06and there
01:21:07are certain
01:21:07positions
01:21:07that are
01:21:08better suited
01:21:08to a
01:21:09female
01:21:09but in
01:21:10the bigger
01:21:11context of
01:21:11things
01:21:12the better
01:21:12person
01:21:13gets
01:21:13the job
01:21:14not down
01:21:14to
01:21:14ethnicity
01:21:15not down
01:21:16to gender
01:21:17it's just
01:21:18the best
01:21:18suited
01:21:18person
01:21:19so
01:21:19and that's
01:21:20the way
01:21:20I feel
01:21:21about it
01:21:21but we
01:21:21have a lot
01:21:22to do
01:21:23we've only
01:21:23scratched the
01:21:24surface
01:21:24if that
01:21:25I mean
01:21:25I'm not
01:21:26perfect
01:21:26but it's not
01:21:29utopia
01:21:30but the whole
01:21:31in order to
01:21:32make the
01:21:34change
01:21:34you have to
01:21:34acknowledge
01:21:35that change
01:21:35needs to be
01:21:36made
01:21:36and I think
01:21:37on shows
01:21:38like Manhood
01:21:38and many
01:21:38other
01:21:39shows
01:21:39and many
01:21:39other
01:21:39discussions
01:21:40I don't
01:21:41think anybody
01:21:41comes out
01:21:42as an
01:21:42advocate
01:21:42to say
01:21:43leave women
01:21:44where they're
01:21:44at
01:21:45maybe I
01:21:46mispassed this
01:21:46but I'm just
01:21:47saying
01:21:47young lady
01:21:48in terms of
01:21:51all this
01:21:51women's rights
01:21:53and feminist
01:21:54things
01:21:55and all them
01:21:55kind of things
01:21:56what have
01:21:58that
01:21:58you all
01:22:00can do
01:22:01no
01:22:02in terms of
01:22:03obviously
01:22:03what rights
01:22:05do we have
01:22:06that you all
01:22:06don't have
01:22:06none
01:22:07exactly
01:22:08so what's
01:22:09the fight
01:22:09about
01:22:10well because
01:22:11you know
01:22:12research shows
01:22:13that women
01:22:14are discriminated
01:22:15in many aspects
01:22:16of life
01:22:16so I think
01:22:17but again
01:22:17I think
01:22:17that would
01:22:18be a whole
01:22:18different show
01:22:19so for you
01:22:20to say
01:22:21that because
01:22:23women have
01:22:23the same rights
01:22:24as men
01:22:24doesn't mean
01:22:25that they
01:22:25don't experience
01:22:26bias
01:22:26I think
01:22:27that would
01:22:27be incorrect
01:22:28to say
01:22:29agree
01:22:30because it
01:22:31also comes
01:22:31down to
01:22:32everybody
01:22:33can apply
01:22:33for a position
01:22:34but who
01:22:35gets the
01:22:35position in
01:22:36the end
01:22:36and is
01:22:37there a
01:22:37boys club
01:22:37boys clubs
01:22:38exist
01:22:38but they're
01:22:39also
01:22:39as we
01:22:42said
01:22:42that's a
01:22:44whole other
01:22:45topic
01:22:45of discussion
01:22:47we understand
01:22:48that you
01:22:49know it
01:22:49is there
01:22:50and we
01:22:51have to
01:22:51start
01:22:52acknowledging
01:22:52it
01:22:52right
01:22:53I do
01:22:54take
01:22:54Johansi's
01:22:54point that
01:22:55women also
01:22:55need to
01:22:56understand
01:22:56the part
01:22:56that they
01:22:57play
01:22:57and even
01:22:58though it
01:22:58may not
01:22:59it might
01:22:59seem to
01:23:00you know
01:23:00why
01:23:00why should
01:23:01we be
01:23:01doing
01:23:01that
01:23:02and if
01:23:02we continue
01:23:03to do
01:23:03that
01:23:03you know
01:23:03the definition
01:23:04of insanity
01:23:05continue to
01:23:05keep doing
01:23:06the same
01:23:06thing
01:23:06but you're
01:23:07expecting a
01:23:07different result
01:23:08so if you
01:23:08know that
01:23:09there's certain
01:23:09things that
01:23:10are going to
01:23:10trigger men
01:23:11to do certain
01:23:11behaviours
01:23:12instead of
01:23:13saying well
01:23:13that's the
01:23:13ego
01:23:14that's the
01:23:14insecurities
01:23:15that's how
01:23:15they show up
01:23:16I've heard it
01:23:17before
01:23:17men and
01:23:18their
01:23:18right
01:23:19but that's
01:23:21what it is
01:23:21so if you
01:23:22continue to do
01:23:22those things
01:23:23don't expect a
01:23:24different result
01:23:25but if you
01:23:25want to make
01:23:26a change
01:23:26sometimes a
01:23:26change
01:23:27needs to
01:23:28start from
01:23:28somewhere
01:23:29so the
01:23:30little
01:23:30changes
01:23:31may reap
01:23:32big results
01:23:33and when it
01:23:34comes to
01:23:35my thoughts
01:23:35on no
01:23:36I just want
01:23:37to be very
01:23:37clear
01:23:38no is no
01:23:39and I think
01:23:40the safer
01:23:40thing to do
01:23:41is to say
01:23:42you know
01:23:42let's debate
01:23:43it after
01:23:43let's debate
01:23:44the why
01:23:45you know
01:23:46if you're
01:23:46in this role
01:23:47if you're
01:23:49deep into it
01:23:49and the woman
01:23:50says no
01:23:51or whoever
01:23:52your partner
01:23:53says no
01:23:53at that particular
01:23:54point
01:23:55stop
01:23:55debate it
01:23:56after
01:23:56why you said
01:23:57no
01:23:57let the ego
01:23:58come out
01:23:59to that
01:23:59point
01:23:59safeguard
01:24:00yourself
01:24:01so
01:24:01Johanse
01:24:02Shireen
01:24:03Chiney
01:24:04aka
01:24:05Keron
01:24:05Keron aka
01:24:06Chiney
01:24:07always a pleasure
01:24:08this has been
01:24:09Manhood
01:24:09another really
01:24:10powerful discussion
01:24:11no means
01:24:12no
01:24:12just say
01:24:13no
01:24:13manhood
01:24:23brought to you
01:24:24by Jameson
01:24:25natural sources
01:24:26since 1922
01:24:28since 1922
01:24:28you
01:24:34you
01:24:39you
01:24:39you
01:24:44you
01:24:45you
01:24:52you