What is spirtuality for men?
With Teddyson John
With Teddyson John
Category
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TVTranscript
00:00Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.
00:09Welcome to Manhood. My name is Johanse Iodike. I'm a behavior change specialist.
00:14To my left, we have Robert Dumas, who doesn't want to define himself.
00:19On my right, we have Teddy, Teddison, John, St. Lucian, creative, artist.
00:26And to my further right, we have Niall Matnish, who says he don't want to be defined either.
00:33Okay, you're right. So this is manhood.
00:36We are a few men talking to all men, but we're not talking on behalf of all men
00:42because each man has his own individual thoughts.
00:46So we hear, we roar, we uncut, and today we're talking about spirituality.
00:52Spirituality. Now, to me, spirituality has no real definition.
00:57When you're talking about spirituality, it's a fluid thing.
01:00Now, I know sometimes Reboot's have some definitions, so you can read those definitions for them.
01:05I will present that.
01:06So actually, let me start with a definition and then we can start to break it apart.
01:11So first of all, Johanse, thank you for that really great introduction.
01:14And I would say, as Jay-Z once said, I'm not a businessman, I'm a businessman.
01:20So when you say a definition, the name itself, Robert Dumas to me, in my presence, it's simply that.
01:29That is my definition. I am who I am. I'm nothing more, I'm nothing less.
01:33Read the definition.
01:34Let's move on to the definition of what spirituality has.
01:38I have to put on the glasses there, right?
01:40So, spirituality. What is spirituality for men?
01:46Spirituality refers to a belief that life has a higher purpose beyond the daily struggles to survive.
01:53Spiritual men live in a world endowed by a spirit, spirits, or a soul.
01:58Men who honor the numinous sides of their personalities commit themselves to moral principles embedded in their spiritual beliefs.
02:07I want to say they also present that there are three types of spirituality.
02:11There are three basic types of spiritualities.
02:14Spiritual individualism, spiritual collectivism, and spiritual dialogue.
02:21Individualist spiritually is centered on the within.
02:23Human collectivist spirituality is centered on the institutions of religion.
02:29So if you didn't know, now you know.
02:31And before we get into it, I just want to say that this is a really, really interesting topic today
02:38because spirituality and beliefs drive a lot of how we end up behaving in certain circumstances.
02:47True.
02:48And I know Tedeson is very grounded spiritually, and so too are you.
02:54And I know that in this particular episode, Nyle and I are going to be the ones that are going to sort of, you know, rock the boat, so to speak.
03:02Listen, listen.
03:03It's spirituality we're dealing with, not religion, you know, don't judge yourself.
03:06Correct.
03:07Correct.
03:07True.
03:08But spirituality and religion, so you don't have to have religion in what you believe in and what you follow,
03:16but the spirituality is still some sort of belief in something.
03:19So how you presence that, I mean, I think it's just, it's semantics when people, you know, try to define one against the other.
03:27Actually, I disagree in terms of spirituality and religion being semantic because, for me, spirituality has a certain feeling that comes with it.
03:37Because religion is more ritualistic.
03:40So you go, I'll just give an example.
03:43You kneel down, you pray at 7 a.m. every morning, and you do it every morning.
03:46Now, I'm not saying it wouldn't have feeling it, but sometimes it may not, right?
03:50Because it's just a routine, something you're just going through, versus spirituality.
03:55You may feel at 6 a.m. to speak to God instead.
03:58You may feel to go and walk on the beach instead of kneeling down.
04:02So it's something more of a feeling than just, could be sometimes a mindless ritual.
04:08For me, an example, like I was probably raised, you know, heavy in church, right?
04:14So we talk in church every day of the week, they must have something, you know.
04:20I was telling my mother, I think I am closer now to the Creator than I was raised underneath the whole system or the gathering or the congregation.
04:34I think spirituality is a one-on-one, that one-on-one individual to connect with the Creator.
04:43Whoever he is to you, you know, what people have different.
04:48I am not in any position to say, you know, okay, who's the religion kind of separates that and makes you feel, okay, you have a Baptist, you have a Pentecostal,
04:59you have all sorts of different religions, and they kind of like fight up within themselves to figure out who's right.
05:07But I don't want to be a part of that.
05:10That's probably how I was raised.
05:13But that individual one-on-one connect, just like you said, you may choose not to get on your knees or spend hours, but like for me, it's a daily thing.
05:26I have conversations every day.
05:28I'll be driving in my vehicle and, hey, you know, if I go into this meeting, you know what to do.
05:33You know, like you have that, I want to be able to talk to the Creator the way I want to and not the way that it was taught, you know, or society or the religious people basically taught you how to, you know, how to do.
05:50So basically, is it that you can be religious, but not spiritual?
05:56Correct.
05:56Yeah.
05:57And I know that I actually are happy that we're having this conversation because now I've seen that there's a separation between the two because I always, well, I believe in it all.
06:09That's my defining or term for the Creator, but I was not a very religious person, right?
06:16You couldn't get me to go into the church every Sunday, right?
06:19And I never understood why it had people who, they take their religion so seriously, but they lose focus of what, why you're coming to the, why you're congregating, why you're doing all these, these protocols.
06:40And they kind of lose, they lose, they lose the point of why they're doing it.
06:45My thing is that religious people for me have the most skeletons and that's just, that's, that's my examples.
06:52I, I, hey, you can quote a Bible verse from, you can quote the first chapter to the last chapter and you live in, and the way you are inside where your heart is concerned is a totally different, you know, kind of thing.
07:06You, you, you, you can't really even, um, like you can't really relate to the, the, the common, you know, person because sometimes you religious, sometimes again, spirituality will allow you to get off that, you know, religious horse and go down and talk or, you know, and be with the people and talk level with them compared to if you have that religious thing.
07:30And then you think like, okay, if that person not that way, they're not this or they're not that.
07:34My wife just called it religious ego.
07:37Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
07:38Binder than that.
07:38I had that growing up, um, in church and yeah, you just get to a point where, you know.
07:46Where you thought that you, in other words, I'm going to be saved and you are not.
07:49So yeah, I had people, yeah, I had people look at me and tell me, yeah, yeah, if there's something called speaking in tongues and all that kind of stuff, if you're not doing this and you're not doing that and you, and you don't even want to know the stories behind them.
08:02So for me, my mother always taught me, daddy, keep your eye up there, have that one and one and, and, and, and deal with the creator the way you want to.
08:12Don't look at man and don't, because man would fail.
08:16Everybody, you know, they had it in the Bible, the best of the best, you know, had, had, you know, failure.
08:22So who are we to act like, you know, we, we saw, you know, super spiritual and super religious and that kind of vibe, you know.
08:30So really, really rich conversation.
08:33Um, and there's always that saying, Niall, um, and it's in the Bible, judge not lest you be judged.
08:39Yeah, yeah.
08:40So, but I, I want to, I'm sure our viewers and listeners are probably asking themselves, this is all great.
08:47This is all great conversation, good context, um, based on the subject that Johan, say you, um, introduced, but what does that have to do?
08:56And I'm, as in the question, I'm sure people are thinking, what does that have to do with man and behaviors?
09:02Gotcha.
09:02And the reason we want to have that conversation around spirituality is how does that, your spiritual grounding or lack of spiritual grounding in whatever you believe, you know, only, I, I, I say to people all the time, only when we close our eyes and that day comes, will we know who was right and who was wrong.
09:22And at that point, it, you know, it is what it is.
09:25True.
09:26But as we walk the earth, our spiritual grounding or lack thereof or religion and all these beliefs that lead to so many other things in terms of how we treat women, for example, how we view others.
09:37Like, where do we view others as a, as, um, an infidel or do we view others as, as, as, um, pagans and all of these different terms that keep coming out.
09:47All that is some form of judgment based on, we believe what we believe is right.
09:52Okay.
09:52And I'm saying that more importantly, how does that impact our behavior, not just based on being religiously bound, but also spiritually or lack thereof.
10:04How does that impact our behaviors to do the things that we do?
10:09I'll tie in, I'll tie what you're saying into something you said, Niall.
10:12You said sometimes religious people, they end up losing focus on what it is they're supposed to.
10:19Now, that's interesting because you don't know what their focus was, right?
10:23We assume because somebody in a church that they focus on something, but their reason for being in the church could be totally different from what you think it is or what we think it's supposed to be.
10:32Right.
10:32So I'm going first on a, on a wide scale, that person's purpose, because I'll give you somebody purpose could be the lonely and they're looking for company, you know, right?
10:42So that's from a, a wide perspective.
10:44So now we turn it back to what you're saying in terms of men, why, what, what is the difference between, we can even say male, female spirituality or what it means for a man.
10:54Right.
10:54So I'll start with no looked up definition for me, a man supposed to know himself, right?
11:03God, if you're going by biblical, God put Adam on the earth first and he put Adam in charge as a manager, right?
11:12To manage things.
11:13But to do that, he had to have that connection and that relationship with God, even before Eve come, come, come into play.
11:21So if that's what you believe.
11:22Right.
11:22So if you're going biblical, if you're going biblical, right?
11:25And as, as a man, I believe that us having that relationship with God first, before you have a woman, before you have children, et cetera.
11:34Now, again, not a religious practice, but that connection with God, because for me, for me personally, sometimes as a man, I don't know what to do.
11:41Sometimes I don't know what to do in a situation.
11:43Now I could analyze, I could Google, I could read a book, but sometimes it goes beyond that.
11:50It goes beyond.
11:51And so as you're saying, Teddy, it just asks God, like what to do, boy, what to do really to do.
11:56And I think that's important for a man to have that direction.
12:00Interesting.
12:02Here's what I realize, right?
12:03When you really break down spirituality, especially as a man, the reality is spirituality to me seems like it's hope that is given to man, to men or humans in general, right?
12:15Because without hope, society in general will just break down and degrade.
12:21Tomorrow, man, if I do, I have no hope for tomorrow, I will do anything I want today.
12:25It will have no, it will be utter chaos.
12:27That's what I believe, right?
12:29So I think that religions began because you needed a way to give people hope in whatever vein that they so choose was, you know, the best way of describing or representing the all to them.
12:45So without some sort of guided meditation, which is what I call religion, is guided meditation towards hope, society in total will come to, and this is just applied to men, because men being the dominating ones in the, I know some women wouldn't like to hear that, but the reality.
13:07You just always throw yourself in that hole.
13:09I mean, if the bus is called reality, then I'll throw myself under it, right?
13:14So, but men being the most dominating species on the planet, being that if we fail to adhere to rules, nobody is safe in the world, right?
13:26And so without religion, without spirituality, they would have utter chaos.
13:31And going back to what I said earlier, where religions has been started and they're starting to veer off of what the path of spirituality is.
13:40And that's where I feel, that's how I feel that is applied to men in particular, because without a strong spiritual grounding or hope for a man, there'll be problems, especially in the household, especially in the friends around them.
13:55Yeah.
13:55You know, so that's, that's my...
13:58I just wanted to, just to put it, interject to say two things.
14:01One, that, you know, we start off saying that we are not speaking on behalf of all men.
14:09We are few men talking to all men.
14:11Where Niall mentions that men are the dominant species.
14:16Niall!
14:17I'll leave him on his own with that one, right?
14:19Wait, I don't understand.
14:20And secondly, you know, I always hear that hope is the absence of faith and worry is the absence of prayer, right?
14:29So when you bring the two together, I'm just saying it's almost, it's not connected because you can't have faith if you're still in hope, right?
14:42You have to believe.
14:43You believe that, you know, you, you say up to whatever you believe in, whether it's a universe, a higher purpose, or, you know, God, Jesus, Yahweh, you know, whatever that is.
14:56That faith is that you asking, you see me, Teddy, you mentioned that before you go into something, you say, Father, you know that, listen, I want your words to be my words.
15:06You go before me and be present and touch that person's heart or touch that person to, to let, let thy will be done.
15:14And so, I mean, the same thing with, with prayer, you know, it's, it's, you pray instead of worry, you know?
15:21Yes, you're human at the bottom line, but I just wanted to, to, to bring that about and for us to go to a break because once again, very, very good conversation.
15:30But I really do want to bring it back and hone in on the connection between spirituality or the absence of spirituality and our behaviors, negative and positive.
15:42We'll be back.
15:43Hey, welcome back.
15:57Yours truly, Jettison John from the beautiful island of St. Lucia.
16:01You know, I had to put that in there.
16:03Welcome to manhood.
16:05And we are talking about the importance of spirituality.
16:09Um, and while we were chilling, we were just going over some funny stories, eh?
16:16Um, in the connections, I was just letting you guys know for me where, where it started, um, with me.
16:24Um, the change of mindset from religious, uh, spirituality, um, I would say I probably lived with the whole religious thing
16:39for a while, eh?
16:40So that's like me going into the soca music from, you know?
16:46Yeah, it'll say backslide, you know, but I think I did, eh?
16:49Now I'll check it.
16:50My mother watching this.
16:51Hello.
16:52Hey.
16:52Don't they love you?
16:54Hello.
16:54We here.
16:55You see, we on TV?
16:56All right.
16:58Um, I used to, there's a lot that I, I, I, I wanted to do.
17:03And if I had to come into, you know, into the industry, I wanted to come different in terms of what I wanted to give
17:10and the message, like, I wanted to give a message.
17:13Um, people always thought that, like, you can't really take the church out of the person because, I mean,
17:21sometimes, you know, like, you hear that phrase, like, you train up somebody in the way, train up a child in the way
17:26that they should go, and then certain things are not going to be part, you know?
17:31We'll leave them.
17:32Yeah, we'll leave them.
17:33So that grounding for me was, was, was always there.
17:38Um, it changed when I, I, I started to just observe, you know, all the different situations around me.
17:48I was like, nah, the truth is that no man is perfect.
17:50Like, you know, like, no man, we're here talking today and everybody have a different, you know,
17:58a different point, perspective, viewpoint and perspective.
18:02And it's your personal perspective based on what you went through and what you've been through.
18:10Correct.
18:11So who's to say it's wrong?
18:12No, it, it, it, it can be right based on what you went through.
18:18Yeah.
18:18Yeah.
18:18You know, correct.
18:19You're upbringing, you're societal influences.
18:22Yeah.
18:22All of these different things have an impact.
18:24Relationships.
18:24Yes.
18:25But Teddy, what I want, what I want to know is how, when you think of the two, you know,
18:30the, the, the correlation between spirituality or lack of spirituality in your life and how
18:35you behave, your moral fabric.
18:36Yeah.
18:37Um, how does, how has that impacted you?
18:40Would you say that you are guided by that and how you treat women, how you treat people?
18:45I am, I am guided by that a lot.
18:47Um, and it, it, it, it just happens naturally because that's how, you know, certain aspects
18:52of, of, of growing up in a, in a family, the morals that you, it was given to you as
18:57a child, your father instilled in you.
19:00Like my, my dad taught us to, to really protect and take care of, you know, um, we, we, my mom
19:10was a stay at home, you know, mom, my dad taught us to actually go out there and, and provide
19:16and, and, and okay, whatever you know how to do, take that, run with it, you know, and, and,
19:24and, and, and use that to take care of you in the sense of that, that, that always really,
19:31that always really stayed, you know, with me.
19:35Um, me being the person that I am, uh, I'm a humble soul, people find it to be like Teddy
19:43is, is just like, I don't change.
19:46The truth is that I want to treat people the way that I would like to be treated.
19:51It's just simple.
19:52So, so for me, the upbringing and, and, and, and what I was taught growing up by, you know,
19:59my dad, um, that's what it just happens, you know, it, it just naturally happens.
20:07Again, when you train up a child in the way that they should go, these things kind of stays.
20:15Would you say that your spirituality is what, what assisted or led to your humility?
20:20That, yes, yes, it did.
20:24Um, but that one-on-one thing was what really started to change my mind.
20:29There's some books and stuff that I started to read, you know, go into, um, you know,
20:36the powers of positive thinking, the laws of attraction, you know, um, yeah, yeah, it is really,
20:45these things really, really, you know, went to my mind.
20:50Like I really got into that and started to see things a different way.
20:55Hence it started to, to, to even appreciate the universal way of thinking more.
21:00And, and it's just, that just started to, to change, you know?
21:05And, and I found myself, my whole conversation was changing right before, like, I, I wouldn't,
21:15I don't know, like, I, it just started to change.
21:18I, as the universe was certain things, I wanted to be around a different circle
21:22because you can't be around the same people if you want to.
21:26When your mind changes.
21:27When your mind changes.
21:28And that's just what happened.
21:29I started to different, like, like-minded people, you know, to have conversations of,
21:37of substance like we have in here today.
21:40This wouldn't be my typical, you know, forum before.
21:46Yeah.
21:46But I can appreciate that, you know, just because of certain things that I started to,
21:52to be like my, yeah.
21:54So I, I really, as, as you mentioned about your circle and being like-minded,
22:00you are a spiritual person.
22:02Yeah.
22:02And that spirituality has led you to be a, a person that's like, a humble person,
22:10a successful person, a loved person.
22:13Appreciate it.
22:13Um, and, and, and that's, again, that's because you're spiritually grounded.
22:17Yeah.
22:18I want us to talk a lot about where we made that connection.
22:22So for me, I always had an issue with, you know, when you watch a lot of these say mafia
22:26type films and people behave or certainly do certain things, even killings, et cetera.
22:33And then, you know, there's, it's based on either they, they truly believe that based
22:39on religion, that it's okay.
22:41Um, or just in these shows, I know it's movies, but there's, there's reality to it.
22:46Um, that, um, those behaviors are somewhat justified and, you know, you say to, um, to
22:52Hail Mary or to whatever.
22:54And, you know, somehow everything is cool and okay after that.
22:58Oh, and I'm wondering when we see some of these killings, even in Trinidad and Tobago or
23:04some of these acts, these heinous acts that we see and we, and it upsets us to our core and
23:10we ask what is happening with sweet TNT, we turn around and ask, do these people have
23:15a soul?
23:16Are they spiritually grounded?
23:18And is that a can't blush, uh, you know, a, a blanket statement, um, to say no, or is
23:24it that you, you can still, you can, you can be both.
23:29And that's why I'm saying how, what is the correlation, which is what I want us to talk
23:33about here today.
23:33What is the correlation between spirituality, religion and our behaviors?
23:37And in this case, we're here having this show initially set up because we're not happy
23:42with our behaviors.
23:46Robert, you enter in some very interesting waters because seeing not everyone different,
23:52right?
23:52God create each one of us differently and human behavior is thought into feeling into action.
23:57And then we come back, how we develop is based on how we grew up and everybody grew up
24:02differently.
24:02Now it's very possible that our idea, not religion first, because religion, they are different
24:07sex and we, sex of religion that we could define, but if we go in spirituality, then spirituality
24:13coming as an individual thing from 8 billion individuals, right?
24:18So I promise in that first, and then I'll come and I'll, I'll give a quick story.
24:22Some years ago, I had a client years ago who admitted he was a contract killer and he, he
24:29wanted to, um, to, he was repentant, quote unquote, right?
24:33He, he, he, he stopped the life and he, he wanted to live a family life, et cetera.
24:38And he said that he used to pray before he killed the person.
24:44He used to pray for their soul.
24:47For their soul.
24:48For their soul.
24:49For their soul.
24:50Right?
24:50As, as it is, as he, as he is assisting the transition.
24:55Right.
24:56And it was always an interesting thing to me because he believed this in them.
25:03Right.
25:03And, and I use it when he came to repent, it's not really repent.
25:06He wanted to help with help adjusting to a new life because he wanted a family life, et cetera.
25:12And he didn't regret anything that he did.
25:15And he, he said that this was part of his belief system and his belief system was changing.
25:22Okay.
25:22Right.
25:23So I, I, I use it not because we wonder here's wondering if people don't have any soul.
25:29And to be honest, it's very hard to judge.
25:32Well, who have a soul?
25:33We're not trying to judge.
25:34Right.
25:34There's no judgment.
25:35It's a question.
25:36We're, we're in a forum.
25:37It's not necessarily my opinion.
25:39Mm-hmm.
25:40We, we, we, we're, we're discussing it for our viewers and listeners out there who are.
25:44Right.
25:45You know, every, everyone has their difference in upbringing to see that, that is a question that
25:50comes up when people go, have the, I know conscience.
25:52And is it, I'm, we're trying to determine here by a conversation.
25:56Is there that connection?
25:58Is there that correlation?
25:59I, I think, I think there is.
26:01Because there's still a spirit there.
26:03Just to be your point there where you said, um, and I, and I, and I, because I wanted to
26:07continue your point, but just to say with that killer, a lot of times when you hear again,
26:10movies, I like movies, um, that you, they believe that they are getting rid of a bad man.
26:22So that's how it's justified.
26:23It's like, I'm, I'm not killing the innocent.
26:25I'm killing people who are vermin.
26:29That's, that's sometimes what you see again in the movie.
26:34Well, this guy didn't necessarily say he was killing women.
26:38He just, you know, he was given contracts, et cetera.
26:41Now, each, each man have their own, and what I'm realizing is their own spirituality.
26:48And even in, I'll use a Bible, we could even use the Gita and some of the, the Hindu, Hindu,
26:59um, um, philosophy and religion, there's always a villain also.
27:03So we have the quote unquote hero and the quote unquote villain and everybody have a, have
27:09a part to play.
27:10Um, my wife and I often discuss if that was Judas' part, right?
27:15If Judas was supposed to do what he, he's supposed to do and him being quote unquote the villain,
27:21right?
27:21That's his spiritual path.
27:23If it wasn't necessarily the, the, the, the devil or, I mean, the, the, the Bible spoke,
27:29spoke about that, but I just putting it out there that everybody have their part and I'm
27:36not saying we judging, but sometimes we judge on a religion.
27:39Religions will judge who good and who bad.
27:42It shows us everybody have a part to play and every man.
27:46So we're going back men.
27:47Now, I think every man have to find his path and be able to embrace his path.
27:54And that is, that is a part, no, not past now, P A T H, this is P A R T.
28:00His part, right.
28:01And that's how we have this whole cousin, because everybody quote unquote has given the
28:10example was good, right?
28:12Whoever good means, then we would lose.
28:15I think we would lose a certain element of what spirituality is.
28:20Understanding different aspects of people, understanding, let's call it light and dark,
28:25understanding different things.
28:27So I, my, my main positive is that every man have a part to play and through spirituality,
28:33you will find that path.
28:36So we need to get the brass tacks steady.
28:39And I want, I want to present what I see in brass tacks.
28:43And this is where I want us to dig deep and reveal we're here to talk real talk, right?
28:51And it's coming down to, we have an understanding, we start off with one or one, what is spirituality
28:56and religion, our understanding of it, that even maybe some, some examples of where that
29:02might be, may impact men on a general basis.
29:07But let's get down to where it really has, by example, my spirituality or religion may impact
29:15how, and this is a discussion we've had on several episodes, my outlook on marriage or
29:21relationships or being polygamous or polyamorous or monogamous.
29:27And we have, this is why it says, started off by saying that Teddy and yourself, you want to say,
29:33may have different viewpoints on right and wrong and behaviors.
29:38It's annihilated by being just a bit, you know, just a bit, just a bit, just, just, just a bit freer in thought or expression.
29:48Not necessarily, we truly believe that, but in terms of, we don't have issue with having the conversation about it.
29:55And that's what I want us to talk about, how, you know, to make it easy.
29:59Let's talk individually, how we see things based on how, our spiritual connection and our outlook to really get an understanding of,
30:10I know we need to take a break, but I want us to start presencing it so that the person's listening or viewing,
30:17go, nah boy, I just, I just stay and listen to how these fellas are going to wrap this thing up.
30:22You know, we don't either go for coffee or anything on the side now or watching something else.
30:26I want you to listen to this.
30:27All right.
30:29I got you.
30:30I see that you all are supposedly the, the, the freer, the freer thinkers.
30:35I mean, on the show, on the show, you must have, you have yin and yang, you have yalfa and omega, you must have, you have balance.
30:41And if one person is doing this, we have an audience that is, you know, everyone.
30:47I mean, sex and things have a spiritual aspect of it.
30:49So, as we're going to the break, we will come back and discuss some of the,
30:57let's say the nuances.
30:59Yeah, the nuances of spirituality.
31:02You know, Long Teddy, I've tried this rigid thing, we start on with segment one, segment two.
31:07We wasn't, we wasn't rigid.
31:08We were setting our premise and we were describing our own aspects of individual.
31:13You tell us in the comments if you want to hear that.
31:16It makes it, it's important to hear, but you know, you want to hear this next segment.
31:21You know, you want to hear this next part.
31:23We are the kicker.
31:23Welcome back, Nation.
31:36I am Niall and this is Manhood.
31:38And the story has been spicy.
31:41Talking about spirituality.
31:43And let me get right back into it, right?
31:45So, just now, a comment was made about the behaviors of men, especially when it applies to the Bible, right?
31:58Another comment was made, right?
32:01Saying that men, what was the comment?
32:05What was the comment?
32:06Men designed to have more than one way of one.
32:08By nature.
32:10However, and the Bible supports that, that's all?
32:13Well, it's in the, it's in the Bible.
32:15The stories you, you, you see, you see, um, Solomon in the Bible had what?
32:24300 and something.
32:25300.
32:25Conquerone.
32:26Right.
32:27And 400 and something wives.
32:29You know, I think so.
32:30I have the numbers mixed up here.
32:32Yeah.
32:32But I'm just saying all these things stem from, stem from there.
32:37And people probably use that to govern what they feel now.
32:40And how's he?
32:41Well, all right.
32:42So then let's fast forward today in today's society where we have now been bound is a word I would use by the tradition.
32:50Well, not tradition, but by the sense of one woman, one man, right?
32:54Does that apply to, is that a spiritual practice?
32:59Is it that we're not, we are moving away from what we're designed to do, spiritually speaking?
33:05Uh, I don't know.
33:07I, I mean, I wanted, I just find the seat all of a sudden got really hot, you know, and I don't know it.
33:13Like, you know, I, I want to, I want, you know, maybe, maybe you're, maybe you're seat hot.
33:17Right.
33:18Um, what, what I would say is that, and I'll give, I'll give my personal, me, I grew up religious also.
33:26And that was very restrictive for me, right?
33:30And maybe close to, I think 16, 17, when I started having more leadership positions in, in church and I started making decisions, I started realizing the restrictiveness of it.
33:43And that started to turn me off.
33:45Now I bring it back because that, that is in connection with sex, is in connection with how we treat women, how we treat people.
33:53I'll give you an example.
33:53I remember I was an usher in church and as an usher, I have my own seat.
33:58I have a seat at the back so I could sit and, and direct things.
34:02And I remember this guy came and he wasn't the most, um, nice looking, you know, his clothes was a little thing, but he wanted to come to come in the church.
34:12And he didn't have any seat.
34:14So I gave him my seat right in the back.
34:16It didn't disturb anybody.
34:17And I remember being called by the pastor after, uh, and buffing me to tell me why I brought him in his shoes.
34:24So, so in my mind, I was like, um, not to say he was cussing, not to say, you know, you know, if nobody didn't see him, they would not know he was there.
34:34Now I bring in that up because it was restrictive for me.
34:40And when I left Trinidad to go university, I was, I had freedom.
34:44So that's where I found my spirituality, where I found, um, my views on sex, my, my views on, on religion itself.
34:52Because I, I did try different things.
34:54I even, I was telling you all before I, I even tried atheism at, at one point and to do all of those things where I found myself, because I said, God, should I pray every day?
35:05Should I, I should just, just tell me what I supposed to be.
35:08And I realized it was a way more fluid thing.
35:11Now, adding back to whether men, but by nature, if, if we supposed to have many wives or not, if we, if a man grew up in a restrictive environment, after a while, he will just want to let loose.
35:25So even saying that's how we are by nature, a lot of times we don't even know that because we grew up, most of us, I don't know everybody, most of us grew up in a restrictive nature.
35:40So after a while, he will just want to let loose.
35:42And then I'll add with the Bible.
35:44Now, I don't know every single story in the Bible, but the stories where those, those men had more than one woman, most times it led to their downfall, because that was Solomon's downfall.
35:54It was David's downfall.
35:55It was Samson's downfall, having more than one woman and lusting, lusting after, and after something and being in a, in a restrictive environment.
36:05So that, that's my little piece.
36:06The, us, us men, a lot of times you grew up in a restrictive environment and you know how, how that will be, whether it is religious or not.
36:14And then after a while, and that's why most men have a midlife crisis, because you grew up in these defined and confined things.
36:21And then after a while, we just can't take it.
36:24Anybody jump in?
36:25I can jump in now, because I really like the fact that you say that you practice atheism for a little while.
36:33And I felt like I went through a phase like that as well, because I grew up in the church and just like, as you say, you grew up in a real restrictive way.
36:41You're going to have an oeuvre stare.
36:42You want to just do everything opposite to one, because it was so, it was so, you know, for me, I didn't like it.
36:49So I had a phase of atheism where I just didn't believe in anything.
36:52But that was, that had me treating people a certain way, because when you do believe in something greater than yourself, you treat people, yeah, it was a bad, I was almost like a baby sociopath, right?
37:07Well, I don't know if that's atheism, that could be something else, you know.
37:11If you go about something greater, it means that you think that you are top of the pyramid.
37:16And as a result, you can also then start to treat people less than, or you have a lesser view of yourself.
37:21Correct.
37:21And if you don't have that love, that self-love, then how can you give something that you don't have?
37:26Well, I'm not advocating for atheism here, but from what you're saying, that means you don't understand what atheism is.
37:32No, no, no.
37:33I understand what atheism is.
37:34No, I know.
37:34It's agnostic, and being an atheist is agnostic.
37:38One is not a belief in God, but you believe in something, right?
37:42The other is not believing in anything at all, right?
37:45In Niall's case, he went through a period of not believing in, say, maybe religion or a certain, maybe apathetic,
37:56it was probably because of a certain situation in his life that made him result in, okay, well, if God is real, how am I now going through this?
38:05Or why would God do this to me, right?
38:07So I believe he could have gone through, what were to him, a period of atheism or even, to a certain extent, being agnostic.
38:19But again, and again, you know, having a period, it makes me ask the question, it just popped to me, is there also another category, is there another term that maybe any of the three of you may know where you believe in God, but you have a period in your life that you don't believe in religion?
38:42Well, I think that's, one, that's what spirituality is, you don't believe in religion.
38:47Is it?
38:47Is it, is it that, I can't, I can either be religious or spiritual.
38:52Yeah, I think.
38:53I don't know if it's either or, because I think it could be spiritual and religious.
38:57This is what I'm saying.
38:58But it could be religious, but not spiritual.
39:01Or it could be spiritual and not religious.
39:04So, so, so, so, so you could be both, you could be one or the other.
39:09Right.
39:10So, so you can be, so, in other words, when you said that if, if I'm, if I'm not, if I'm without religion, without belief in religion at that period, I'm spiritual, but it, we, we, it's almost like we contradicted in the statement and all that.
39:26So, so you can, you can be, what is the term, which is not spiritual, what is the term when I am not in belief of my religion for a period?
39:36But it, it, it is not actually spiritual.
39:39Because it has to be both.
39:40That's when they're searching, that's when they're fighting.
39:41That's basically what I was going through.
39:43I think there's no difference.
39:45If you're searching, that is spiritual to become, okay, okay, this is my belief.
39:48If you're searching, it's spiritual.
39:49Everybody's spiritual.
39:50Everybody have a spirit.
39:51So whether you believe it or not, no, I mean, I could take the arguments with this.
39:55Right.
39:56All of us have, have a spirit.
39:59Everything to me is, is spiritual.
40:01And I didn't believe this for a long time.
40:02Right.
40:03But there's a spiritual aspect.
40:05And if you're using the word spiritual, something that is above us, because even the atheist community that I connected with then, they believed in love.
40:14Right.
40:15They believed in peace.
40:16Right.
40:17They didn't believe, they had no God or no Bible or anything like that.
40:21Right.
40:22But they believed in love.
40:24If you understand what they're saying, they believed in peace and treating people well and et cetera, which I think is an ideal above self.
40:32Because if I choose to treat you as my brother, it could mean at times I compromising something, I sacrificing, I giving.
40:40So I think that even though you would get rid of religion, let's say you don't believe in religion or you even believe in spirituality, a lot of times most people are good at their core.
40:51So even though they have no spiritual or religious beliefs, they may believe in love, they may believe in helping somebody, they may believe in making people smile, they may believe in something like.
41:01So you believe in what people say where they say there's no bad people, there's just bad choices.
41:06Yeah.
41:06I don't believe anybody in Italy bad.
41:09Hmm.
41:09Interesting.
41:10Mm-hmm.
41:11As in it wasn't born bad.
41:12Yes.
41:13You weren't born bad.
41:14But you can believe now that the people now are not, when you say someone's rotten to the core or their soul has left their body or they're without coffee.
41:21I try to think of, and that's me with a different mindset, because some of us, sometimes we still have that indirect judgmental position.
41:35I try to think of the why, like, you know, the why, okay, that person did something, that person made a decision, that person, like, what is the deep-rooted reason why?
41:58Huh?
41:59Huh?
41:59I think if we understand the why, then we'd probably understand the reason behind the why.
42:10I understand what I'm saying, making sense.
42:12Making people fix the issue.
42:13Yeah, I just learned to look at that.
42:15Sometimes we may not even understand the why, you know, but there's a deeper, there's a deeper-seated issue.
42:23Um, there's a deeper reasoning that allows somebody to think what they're thinking is the right thing to do.
42:38It's just crazy.
42:39Well, just to go on that, I think you had to understand the why for yourself before you even understand the why in others, right?
42:47So, I need to have a control or a grasp as, why did I get so angry when, you know, Miguel leaves the dishes in the sink?
42:58Or triggers, you know, I get triggered because of that, right?
43:01And only me understanding that, I could now understand when she gets upset for no, in my opinion, for no reason.
43:07But I now say, oh, because you went through certain things in your past, and I am now displaying a pattern that is triggering to you too.
43:18And so, I like the fact that you said that.
43:20And I guess that why is what really boils down to the behavior of everybody.
43:24Everybody.
43:25And the surface tension of that is spirituality.
43:29Yeah.
43:29That kind of keeps everything together.
43:32Well, and just to, based on what you said there, Niall, you know, this is a conversation again.
43:37You know, in every episode, we talk about one thing with manhood, Teddy, is that it's going to live on.
43:43It's a conversation that will always have to happen, whether that's fortunate or unfortunate, because we are humans.
43:50And these conversations are never going to, the topics are never going to be fully understood or resolved.
43:54And one of the things, you know, within that, as you mentioned, Niall, not understanding, in that surface tension, there's also, you know, spiritual bind.
44:07Like, when you bind yourself to someone, so there's energies.
44:10There's a feel, whether you believe in the universe or you believe in some sort of religion.
44:14So, when you sleep with multiple partners, that, as we mentioned, you spoke about spirit, that everybody has a spirit.
44:21So, whether that's a powerful spirit, that's a spirit within your belief, or another spirit, when that becomes interlocked and you break that field, and now you have the field of their fields, all the other fields that they've had, and you start to go down that road, it's going to disrupt your field.
44:38Understood.
44:38And as a result, going forward, you have to reach the point that you have to know, what's the terminology they use?
44:45Break the chains, or pray, in your belief, to break that, so it's more in alignment, or it is in total alignment with your direction, whichever that is.
44:59And that, in itself, also causes disruption in you stating to yourself, I'm going to church, or I believe in this, whatever that is,
45:11and I want to know, why is it I'm not able just to go down the straight and narrow?
45:16And it's because of all these other disruptors, all these other kinks, all these other stones, all these other potholes, that you've brought within your sphere,
45:26if, as you also mentioned, Teddy, your circles are the circles to take you down the path that you want to go.
45:33Because I could say I would be a good person, but I still like him in certain areas, because I like the feeling, I like the vice.
45:39But it's not taking me down the right road.
45:44And those are the things that also impact our behaviors, known or unbeknownst to us.
45:50Well, you don't say something there about, remember before, the talk was, you know, we're not, as men, not designed to have one wife.
45:59We're designed to have multiple women.
46:02It's an opinion, yeah.
46:03It's an opinion, right?
46:04Okay.
46:04But, you know, the statement was, again, now just made where, and I agree with, where skin to skin is actually a spiritual act that you're making.
46:14So, technically, man as the evolved ape that we are, man as the evolved ape that we are, it makes sense that we'd want to be with multiple women.
46:28I feel like I held back there.
46:30I did, I did, I did, I did, I did, I did.
46:32However, you know, as a more mature spiritual man, I understand now that being with one person is really healthier for me as a male, as a man, right?
46:46And which I want to just bring back to the story that I started with me finding atheism because I was overstaring from my religious beginning, right?
46:53But, just to quickly summarize it, so here I was, an atheist, treating people in a scientific way because I thought, I was like, I am science, right?
47:05Humans, we are not special.
47:07We are just like ants, you know?
47:09You are nobody to me.
47:11We are just two people sharing a space, right?
47:15So, that's how I was treating people, right?
47:17And then one day, you know, I went on a journey.
47:23Through the assistance of cannabis, right?
47:27Where, you know, I took an extra dose, a higher dose than I normally would have.
47:31And in that moment, something just clicked.
47:35I don't know how to define it, but I heard myself speak to me.
47:41And I'm assuming that was the creator of the oil.
47:44And he was, I was wearing a fake gold watch and a fake gold chain on my hand.
47:48And I was like, I looked down at myself and I said, why am I wearing these things?
47:52It is to impress other people that, you know, I am doing all of this to impress other people.
47:57I'm showing this fake wealth, right?
48:00So, I bust up the watch and I bust up the chain and I throw it away.
48:04Well, I'll say all I have to say is that at that moment when I found this, for me, I was 33 at the time, by the way, that's the age that Jesus Christ died.
48:14I'll say all I have to say that when I found spirituality that day, it came to me all of a sudden in a bang.
48:19And I changed my whole outlook of how I treat people, especially women and everybody else and especially myself.
48:25So, when you say that, you know, we're supposed to be, you know, spiritually, we're supposed to, we should be with just one person at a time.
48:34I actually agree with it.
48:36You know, believe it or not.
48:39This is our moment.
48:41This is our moment.
48:42I think we need to pause.
48:43We need to pause here.
48:45We need a round of applause.
48:46We need a round of applause, right?
48:48This is our moment.
48:50So, Niall, with that, with that, I want you to use this as a follow through to give you a closing.
48:59Closing statements.
49:02Spirituality is a journey that can only be found, you can have assistance, but it is a journey that one must usually walk alone.
49:13However, it could always be guided, hence where religion comes in.
49:17To me, religion is guided meditation.
49:20And towards your spirituality.
49:23Teddy, take it away.
49:24I would encourage everybody to have that one-on-one.
49:32Have that personal connect.
49:36Whoever the creator is to you, whoever that higher being is to you, do it the way you want to do it.
49:44And not the way anybody tells you to do it.
49:47Do it the way that you feel comfortable in a Zen.
49:51Most importantly, just do it how you feel like.
49:58And everything else is a domino effect from there.
50:01Everything else is just going to follow through with what needs to happen.
50:09And I'm a living proof that these things, you know, happen just because of where I was compared to what I'm doing now and the way that I'm thinking now.
50:24And so it really, it really works.
50:31It really works.
50:32It does.
50:32Amen.
50:34Amen.
50:35Amen.
50:36I wanted to say that to any of you.
50:38It felt like that moment to say it.
50:41Men, I think it's important that we know ourselves and we find ourselves, whether it is through the framework of religion or the fluidity of spirituality or a combination of both.
50:55But it's important for you to define yourself and not let people define you.
51:00Amen.
51:01Amen.
51:02I might have to be a bit more long-winded as you've heard of judgment.
51:09So I would say that this, once again, has been a really powerful conversation.
51:15And in judgment, even in interviewing, as I tell people, you know, sometimes you go in with two questions to open and you always find these nuggets in a conversation.
51:25And in this one, I'm leaving, I'm leaving more open-minded about a lot, a lot of discussions.
51:34I really want to thank you gentlemen once again for always, always changing that for me.
51:42Because each time I think, okay, I have this covered and then I come in here and I leave with that, you know, that thought.
51:50So I might not always change the way entirely, I think, but I certainly have something to go away and further think about and for us to have a discussion.
52:01And I want to also say that a friend of mine once said, I love women, right?
52:08You know, and I would say it is a struggle.
52:12You have to be open, I admit it, you know, we like women.
52:15We had a discussion at one point on our culture and how people, women dress.
52:20And so, you know, and Trinidad and Tobago, you know, has the most beautiful women in the world.
52:26Sorry, Teddy.
52:27But, you know, Trinidad and Tobago, we have, right?
52:29True.
52:31And so with that, but what I would say is you only fail when you stop trying.
52:38That is true.
52:39And monogamy has many, many positive things to it.
52:48And my friend once told me, she said, that person is a witness to your life.
52:55And when you look at it like that, you can have a thousand women and those are just fleeting moments.
53:00And you can't go back to any one of those women and talk about the other moment or the other thing that you saw or the other thing that you experienced, whether it be the good moment, the bad moment that helps shape who you are because you're not the same person you were yesterday.
53:17You can't be.
53:18You know, a minute ago was lost.
53:21We'll never get that back.
53:22And so that witness to your life is what is important in having that particular relationship.
53:29And I want to say with regards to spirituality and men and boys and people listening, you always have a choice.
53:38You simply always have a choice.
53:40And whether that spirituality is right now one that is somewhat negative, you have the choice to change that and to be a better person.
53:50And if it's religion, I mean, we still haven't defined, I still don't feel fully committed to the fact that religion and spirituality or the absence of that is one or the other.
54:04I think that we definitely need to talk further on that and hear the comments, you know, see some of the comments, listen to some of the comments, listen to some of the feedback that we get as we go on to address this again and again and again.
54:17We are not speaking on behalf of all men.
54:20We're not speaking that this is the way.
54:23We are simply a few men sharing with everyone our opinions.
54:28And again, it's always just trying to be a better person with the information and the knowledge and the feeling because we always know what's right and wrong.
54:38Always know what's right and wrong.
54:39It's to make that choice.
54:40So, thank you once again.
54:44Thank you so much, Teddy, for being here.
54:46All the way from St. Lucia.
54:48You know, we appreciate you being here.
54:50Niall, always a pleasure.
54:52Thank you for keeping it PG.
54:55You know, we had a Niall moment here on the show.
54:56I think that in itself is a, you know, a Niall nugget.
55:02Kind of like that, though, by the way.
55:03A Niall nugget.
55:05And Johan, say, once again, always a pleasure for your insight.
55:11We look forward to continuing these conversations.