Is there a difference of ignorance of the law and being ignorant to the law?
Robert Vincent Charles
Robert Vincent Charles
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00:00:00Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.
00:00:09Welcome once again to Manhood, one of the great conversations that we have on a regular basis,
00:00:16off camera, on camera, and then what we try to do is try to bring what's also off camera,
00:00:21on camera, and during the week to discuss with you, because it's important that we reach each
00:00:26other, and I say each other because we're all brothers in this, to ensure that we have a better
00:00:31outlook on more positive behavior and what might be a judge to be undesirable behavior.
00:00:39One of the topics that we are going to discuss this morning, and even in that our understanding
00:00:46might be different, is ignorance of the law and ignorant about the law, or ignorant to the law,
00:00:54or ignorant of the law. So the difference really is ignorance, and when we say ignorance meaning
00:01:02I simply didn't know about the law, whether we travel or in Trinidad and Tobago, and that in
00:01:07itself has a difference because you can still understand the difference between right and
00:01:11wrong, but ignorance if you genuinely didn't know about something, and it's all innocence,
00:01:17and there's ignorant about, or to, or of the law, which is simply arrogance, and you're literally
00:01:25breaking that law, whether you agree with it or disagree with it. So I'm really eager to get into
00:01:32that topic because it has so many variations and stages to it, and implications more so on not just
00:01:40how we present ourselves, but also to how people feel around us, and ultimately the consequences of
00:01:48such actions. So I'm always delighted to have to my right, my right-hand buddy, Johanse Iodike,
00:01:56Behavior Change Consultant.
00:01:58I think that intro is real long, right?
00:02:00Yeah, you know, I'm trying to flex, I'm trying to flex. And even the phone ringing, I mean,
00:02:06they don't know we're taping our show. But to Johanse is right, Robert Vincent Charles,
00:02:14criminal attorney at law, and also known as Vincenzo, at large, and the one and only, this guy,
00:02:26this guy, this guy. I don't know. We keep giving him a seat. We don't learn.
00:02:29He shows up every week.
00:02:29He shows up every week and we say, listen, just give this guy a seat. Niall Moknish.
00:02:34What's up, guys?
00:02:36So let's get straight into it. What do we understand by that? Ignorance, ignorance of the law,
00:02:42and ignorance about the law, to the law.
00:02:46I mean, if we, the language in itself, and I'm glad that we have an attorney here to get the proper
00:02:53understanding because even that's what you were saying, they sounded a bit convoluted, right?
00:02:58And I myself am sometimes ignorant, have ignorance of the law because I don't know.
00:03:06I generally don't know.
00:03:07You don't know, but you start with words like convoluted.
00:03:09Right.
00:03:10But that's okay.
00:03:11That's okay.
00:03:12And if I'm using your definition of now ignorant of the law, I would say I'm also guilty of that
00:03:19because sometimes I know certain things and I still not do it, do it.
00:03:25And I don't know if I incriminated myself here.
00:03:26You literally just did.
00:03:28That's all right.
00:03:28Right?
00:03:28Slightly, but I didn't say what it is.
00:03:30You talk about it.
00:03:31Yeah, I didn't say what it is.
00:03:32800 Vince.
00:03:33But if I'm being real, there are some things that I know I shouldn't be doing, especially driving.
00:03:39I think driving is more of it for me.
00:03:42That's under pet peeves.
00:03:44We'll go into that because driving specifically, there's some specific ones inside of there.
00:03:48And if you're one of those culprits, we will fight it out.
00:03:52Right?
00:03:52So I'm glad I'm here.
00:03:55Vince is here to clarify that.
00:03:58And when you were speaking about it, I was thinking as men, we should be aware because if we are providers and protectors,
00:04:05whether it is of ourselves or of our families, if it is here in Trinidad or somewhere else, we should be aware of the law.
00:04:12I mean, we can't have the full 100%, especially if we go into another country, to know every single thing.
00:04:17But we should be aware because that in itself is a protection for us and our families.
00:04:22So that is just my perspective so far on what you see.
00:04:25So our supreme document is the Constitution.
00:04:29Yeah?
00:04:30That determines or defines what our rights are.
00:04:33And rights are positively asserted.
00:04:35So a simple example would be that everything is legal and pieces of legislation then deem certain actions or certain things illegal.
00:04:46So you'll say it's an offense to drive over 65 kilometers on a certain stretch, etc.
00:04:51Right.
00:04:51So unless it's an offense to be committed, you could go ahead and do what you'll do.
00:04:58Do what you'll want.
00:04:59So you start off with the Constitution saying you have the right to equality, freedom of religion, freedom to assemble, these sorts of things.
00:05:06And then later on in a different piece of legislation, they may make it an offense to do, to assemble for the purposes of inciting a riot, these sorts of things.
00:05:15So rights are always positively asserted.
00:05:18Offenses are created by pieces of legislation to restrict certain types of behavior with a penalty.
00:05:24So in other words, based on what you just said, it sounds like I could do whatever I want unless they say otherwise.
00:05:32Technically, yes.
00:05:33Technically, yes.
00:05:34I kind of like in that.
00:05:35So.
00:05:36But there are always consequences to have action.
00:05:39There's consequences for an offense.
00:05:42Yeah.
00:05:43You have the right to freedom and enjoyment of your property.
00:05:47Yeah.
00:05:47So it means that you can be sitting home doing whatever you want to do in the confines of your space and nobody can't tell you what to do.
00:05:55It's an offense, though, let's just say to possess a certain amount of marijuana.
00:06:00Okay.
00:06:00So even in your personal space where you're permitted to do whatever you want to do and you feel you want to sit down for a week and smoke yourself senseless, it's an offense to have a certain amount.
00:06:12Right.
00:06:12So you understand the play between with positively assertive asserted rights to what's an offense.
00:06:20Yeah.
00:06:21I like that.
00:06:21Yeah.
00:06:22And I've actually saw it on that.
00:06:24Like it's really.
00:06:26There's a difference even in what we're trying to break down.
00:06:29Correct.
00:06:29And I think now we are at a very, very crucial stage in the development of Trinidad as a republic because we're seeing lots of pieces of legislation being passed and a lot of people don't pay attention to it.
00:06:42And we don't realize until two, three years down the road that, hey, we should have paid attention.
00:06:49So I'll give you an example.
00:06:50Just this morning, I saw one of the Trinidad artists being charged with being a gang member.
00:06:55Right.
00:06:55Yes, that's true.
00:06:56Yeah.
00:06:56Okay.
00:06:57So that piece of legislation was passed almost a decade ago.
00:07:02In the right hands, let's just say in this instance, they determine that this person is a gang leader and they charge them.
00:07:09What they don't understand is that if you're charged as a gang leader, your automatic right to apply for bail is delayed for a certain time.
00:07:17There's certain restrictions and such.
00:07:19Great.
00:07:19What happens, though, if you have a dispute with a law enforcement officer who determines, hey, the best way to pull this person on, get him off the street now, charge him as a gang member.
00:07:32Being charged as a gang member comes simply by saying you're part of a group with a common purpose, with insignias, these sorts of things.
00:07:42We would fit into that group right now.
00:07:44Well, from what you're saying, I was considering that, I mean, a men's group, like I was saying, a men's group, we are a group, we have an insignia, and we're not necessarily inciting violence.
00:07:55But I mean, you'll continue.
00:07:56But let's just say we were talking about very, very, what was determined as anti-government or anti-establishment.
00:08:05As you were passionate.
00:08:06Correct.
00:08:07Somebody could determine, hey, that's borderline.
00:08:10Let's pull him in and charge him and let the courts determine that.
00:08:13Right.
00:08:13And then your freedoms that are positively asserted, right to bail, these sorts of things, are denied.
00:08:21Knowledge.
00:08:21What happens then?
00:08:22So would that fall into ignorance of the law in that situation where, like, as the example, all of us here, we are speaking passionately anti-establishment.
00:08:36We may not be fully abreast of the legislation currently.
00:08:44So is it a way where, let's just say one of us had the information, and we do have this group here together.
00:08:52Is there a way for one of us to be able to prevent being in a situation where we get pulled in as?
00:08:58Well, I think that's a classic example of ignorance of the law.
00:09:01Okay.
00:09:02You know, the ordinary person would not be aware of specific pieces of legislation that could affect them.
00:09:08But I'll take it a step further.
00:09:11All of us grew up with many friends from different backgrounds.
00:09:15Trinidad as we knew it back then, there was no sort of barriers to who mixed where, why, when.
00:09:21That is true.
00:09:22And yet, you would have tend to have had a friend who someone might determine is a bad boy.
00:09:26Okay.
00:09:26Yep.
00:09:27Yeah.
00:09:27You happen to, Carnival just finished.
00:09:30He called you and said, I haven't been in town forever, let me go and check this thing.
00:09:33You jump in the car with him, he have two brothers in the back, no problem.
00:09:36Only rolling.
00:09:37Only rolling.
00:09:38Police stop them.
00:09:40Yeah?
00:09:41Turns out that they may have had a firearm in the car, they may have had a certain amount of marijuana in the car, etc.
00:09:46Boom.
00:09:47Them get charged with gang, you get charged with gang.
00:09:50You understand what I'm saying, how easy it is?
00:09:53And it really comes down to a subjective decision made by someone at the instant, without taking any time to say, well, let me really look at how the facts of this really plays out.
00:10:08A determination is made, and at the end of the day, then you're before the court sometimes two to three years.
00:10:13Yeah?
00:10:13But I just want, this is all really, really good and interesting stuff, and it is borderline within the topic.
00:10:20And I think we're going into, you know, a more of a granular approach to the ignorance of the law.
00:10:26Right?
00:10:26But I just want to clarify, because you did say certain things that I want to make sure to our audience, that when you mention about, you know, you can practically do anything.
00:10:37And Vince clarified the difference between your rights and part of the, what might be an offences act.
00:10:44Right?
00:10:44Now, within there, like, for example, you mentioned anti-government stuff.
00:10:48Now, anti-government needs to be clarified.
00:10:50Is it the present government?
00:10:52You might be anti to the present government or political party, hence the opposition.
00:10:56So, the opposition is in a gang.
00:10:58Yeah.
00:10:59You understand?
00:10:59Okay, right, right.
00:11:00So, I want them to clarify that so that you understand.
00:11:03So, clarifying that, I was specific in saying anti-government or anti-establishment, because we're looking at the offices, not the persons.
00:11:11That's what I wanted you to clarify.
00:11:13Absolutely.
00:11:13And also, a better understanding of laws that we speak about.
00:11:22And, you know, as Johan say, cough there, you know, just another thing that we generally do, and we don't even band as brothers, the immediate thought is COVID out.
00:11:30You know?
00:11:31And instead, I should be saying, you okay there, buddy?
00:11:34Want a sip of water?
00:11:35Yeah, a sip of water.
00:11:36You want some reboot?
00:11:37You know?
00:11:37So, these are things that, you know, as it comes to mind, I like to talk about, because it is behavioural.
00:11:43That we now exhibit that are more in survival mode as to really looking out for one another.
00:11:48So, for my subconscious thought, I apologise.
00:11:51But moving along smoothly, the, a couple of things that you, you know, in our discussions that we have had that people don't know about, there are laws that still exist, and that we have now made either common law or common understanding of.
00:12:09So, do you know that, for example, playing loud music is against the law?
00:12:14There are things that, going into a price mark or to a grocery and buying alcohol, and once you leave the premises, customs and other areas can actually take you for that, because you're only allowed.
00:12:26And you may be able to explain that in more detail about some of these laws that are there, are still there in its, you know, Western day capacity, or pre-British, I mean, pre-independence capacity, British colonization, that exists even up to today.
00:12:46So, it's archaic laws, then.
00:12:47Ah, it is.
00:12:48Well, you could still, you could, the police are still within their right to, but why would they, but why would archaic laws still be pushed upon the population?
00:12:59Well, they're not pushed upon, I'm saying to the legislation, still exists, and therefore, therefore, if you came across an officer of the law, who's there to uphold the law, just decided on that day, you can argue afterwards that it's unfair, and this one, everybody doing it, or the common law understanding, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's still there.
00:13:21So, pieces of legislation remain alive, unless repealed, meaning a further piece of legislation saying that that is no longer an offence, and they amend it or whatnot, or it has been struck down by the courts who determined that is an incorrect interpretation, which is contrary to what the Constitution says, which is our supreme document.
00:13:45The supreme document.
00:13:46And, so it will remain alive.
00:13:50Yes, it's something as simple as, at one time it was an offence to wash your clothes in the Marafal River, and to the best of my knowledge, it still remains an offence.
00:14:02Now, people don't do it, but is it enforced?
00:14:04No.
00:14:05What Rob was talking about, you're only entitled to a specific amount of alcohol in your personal possession at your home.
00:14:14So, I could guarantee you.
00:14:15Excuse me?
00:14:17Huh?
00:14:17If, if, if, if, if persons came to your home, and you were only entitled to a specific amount of alcohol in your personal possession at your home.
00:14:20Over that limit, it could be seized, you could be charged, those sorts of things.
00:14:24So, that's what I'm saying, people really are not paying attention to what really happens in your Red House.
00:14:32And, how it's not going to affect us now, 10 years time, your kids, your family members, you know, these sorts of things.
00:14:40So, I think fundamentally, people need to pay a little bit more attention to what's happening now with the legislative process.
00:14:46Well, alright, so let's, let's, let's take it away from people need to, and as we are men, let's just say, man of the household, right?
00:14:53Mm-hmm.
00:14:54As the man of our, of our household, what you're suggesting is that, one, I should be paying attention to the Parliament channel, where I am listening, keeping abreast of all the current legislations that are happening.
00:15:06I'm suggesting that, keeping yourself abreast of current events, as a man in Trinidad, is, is fundamentally one of the most important things you can, yes?
00:15:19So, we need to take a break, and, you know, there's that discussion of, even as we come back to, ignorance of the law, and ignorant, as in, ignorance CE, and ignorant NT, to the law.
00:15:34So, a lot of people, even with the speed limit, think to themselves, listen, I'm driving a 4x4, I am going at 100k.
00:15:42But the law states that you still have to be driving at 65k.
00:15:45Now, whether you agree with it or not, that, listen, my van don't carry load, I don't carry in timber, I don't carry in concrete, however you want to put it, that, that, you know, it's, it's, and you, we say it all the time, it's a stupid law, doesn't change the fact that it is still law.
00:16:01And as long as you break that, there are consequences to that.
00:16:04And I want us to also come to the part, most important part, where it affects behaviors, and can lead to violence, and, and, and mental stress, and all the rest of it, is the ignorant, that leads to, which is really deemed as arrogance.
00:16:22And that is what I really want us to start to focus on.
00:16:25So, we take a short break, a lot of really interesting stuff going on, manhood.
00:16:30So, thanks for staying with us for this conversation, Johanse, Vince, Niall.
00:16:46Well, the topic that we're discussing is ignorance, ignorance, C-E, of the law, and ignorant, to, about, or of the law, which is ignorant as in N-T, ending with N-T.
00:17:00And bottom line is, it's arrogance.
00:17:03We even mentioned about a typical Trinidad personality.
00:17:08You know, I'm not, I'm not sure, I don't really want to label it Trinidad personality, because it happens all over the world.
00:17:16But my specific, as we get into it, let's discuss, for example, a pet peeve.
00:17:22Your pet peeve.
00:17:23My pet peeve.
00:17:25Well, okay.
00:17:26I like the specific, I like the specific.
00:17:27Your pet peeve.
00:17:29Okay, Johanse, my pet peeve.
00:17:31Okay, peeve nonetheless.
00:17:32You're driving down the road, the speed limit is now 100K, right?
00:17:39The, you are behind a person.
00:17:42Now, this is, this is where I'm going to contradict myself, and I'm doing it on purpose.
00:17:46You're driving behind the person, and that person knows, all well and good, keep left, except when overtaken.
00:17:55You don't know the person.
00:17:56Standard.
00:17:57Keep left.
00:17:58You don't know if they know that.
00:17:59So, that ignorance.
00:18:00No, no, no.
00:18:01I know they know that.
00:18:02They should.
00:18:02Because they went.
00:18:03They passed the regs.
00:18:04Because they passed the regs.
00:18:05Exactly.
00:18:06So, you, at one point, you knew what the law is.
00:18:08So, are you saying that they forgot?
00:18:10And if they forgot, that's ignorance in itself.
00:18:12And if they have dementia, they should not be on the road, right?
00:18:15So, either way you take it.
00:18:16Also, they did something illegal and bought their license.
00:18:20And that's still, that's breaking the law.
00:18:22That's still an offense.
00:18:23Of course, that's still a thing.
00:18:24Something that we could talk about on another show, right?
00:18:26So, the point is, we're giving them the benefit of the doubt because you have your license legally and you're on the road.
00:18:34So, you understand, keep left, except when overtaking.
00:18:37There's also this little gadget as well.
00:18:39There's this little thing.
00:18:40The indicator.
00:18:41That cars come with.
00:18:42Well, you're very passionate about this thing, by the way, you're just saying.
00:18:45The indicator to determine because it causes a lot of accidents.
00:18:48That is true.
00:18:49It causes a lot of accidents.
00:18:50So, it's not just a peeve based on what people might say.
00:18:53Well, you're ignorant, right?
00:18:54As an NT.
00:18:55No.
00:18:56It causes fatalities.
00:18:58It causes people to make judgment calls that may not lead to fatality, but that is damaged cars, et cetera, right?
00:19:05Well, we're coming back to, you're driving on the road.
00:19:07This is the scenario.
00:19:08And you're behind someone and you're looking ahead of them.
00:19:12So, there are two scenarios.
00:19:13You're looking ahead of them.
00:19:14There's no cars.
00:19:15Right.
00:19:15So, it's not like they're driving safely.
00:19:17And my thing is, it's 100.
00:19:18So, people tend to say it's a fast lane.
00:19:21But it's not a fast lane.
00:19:22It really is that everyone should be, once you're driving, it's keep left, except when overtaking.
00:19:27I want to say that again.
00:19:28Keep left, except when overtaking.
00:19:30Guys, he's really passionate about this.
00:19:32Please, keep left.
00:19:34And your indicator.
00:19:36Because you see people just drive.
00:19:37And you're like, turn, you know?
00:19:38Gotcha.
00:19:40So, two things happen there.
00:19:43One, there's ignorance on both parts.
00:19:45Because you may be that you decide, I'm going to ride your bumper to get you to move.
00:19:53Right.
00:19:54I don't know who does that.
00:19:54And that in itself, you know?
00:19:56Which is illegal.
00:19:57That in itself.
00:19:58Well, it's not illegal.
00:20:00It is.
00:20:00It's unsafe.
00:20:01It's unsafe.
00:20:02No, it's illegal.
00:20:03You need to keep one carl.
00:20:04I didn't tell you from.
00:20:04Three laws.
00:20:05Ah, you see, I want to make sure that you guys know the law.
00:20:11I don't know.
00:20:12Ignorance.
00:20:12I don't know.
00:20:13Ignorance.
00:20:13Ignorance.
00:20:14Flashing your lights.
00:20:16Popping your horn.
00:20:17So, there's all of these things that we understand.
00:20:21And I'm using the particular example, and I'm using my example, as noticed I started
00:20:26very carefully and strategically to say it was a peeve, because I wanted to demonstrate
00:20:31my ignorance as an arrogance to the situation.
00:20:36Gotcha.
00:20:36So, because they are breaking the law, I am determining that, okay, it's okay for me
00:20:44as well to break the law because you're breaking the law.
00:20:46Okay.
00:20:47Okay.
00:20:47Right?
00:20:48So, yes, it's still a pet peeve.
00:20:49Keep left except when overtaking.
00:20:51It's still a pet peeve.
00:20:52Right.
00:20:52But I am still not within my right to decide I'm going to ride this guy's bumper or more
00:20:57lady's bumper, right?
00:20:59And then flash my lights and all these other things.
00:21:01Because what I'm doing is, one, I'm putting myself in danger.
00:21:05That person may then be more ignorant and then mash the brakes as we see that happens.
00:21:12Right.
00:21:12And then, one, it could end up in a road fatality.
00:21:15Exactly.
00:21:16And also, road rage.
00:21:18We see it happening.
00:21:20So, all of these things are as a result.
00:21:23And that's why I want that mentality overall of, one, we decide we're not taking on the law.
00:21:29We decide when we should take on the law and who is right and who wrong.
00:21:33We become judge, jury, magistrate, the whole, you know, the whole caboodle.
00:21:38And also, you know, in many cases, we say it's a Trinidad personality, but who the bleep are we to make those determinations?
00:21:51Yeah, this is how you get my bones.
00:21:53Right?
00:21:53So, you know why?
00:21:55I don't know why.
00:21:55Because that is one of my peeves.
00:21:58Let me tell you, we are green on something.
00:21:59Right.
00:22:00You see, that keep left when overtaken.
00:22:02Right.
00:22:02It was a peeve for me so much that I started to do research and ask people why they do it.
00:22:10Right?
00:22:10Because, you know, that's my thing.
00:22:11Okay.
00:22:12Not the behavior, but it's why.
00:22:15And from the feedback I got, I mean, I didn't interview the entirety of Trinidad and Temelo,
00:22:20but a lot of people, and this could seem a little weird now, first we're going psychologically.
00:22:26Right.
00:22:27Most people think no matter what speed they're going, once they're in the fast lane, they're going fast.
00:22:31That's true.
00:22:32Right?
00:22:33That makes sense.
00:22:34So, they could be going 60 miles an hour, but if you're driving on the right in the fast lane, in their mind, they're going fast.
00:22:39Right.
00:22:39And it's half the population, Trinidad and Temelo.
00:22:41And if you come and flash them, something's wrong with you.
00:22:44You're rushing.
00:22:45So, it's best you fly over me now.
00:22:47Yeah.
00:22:48Come over the bonnet.
00:22:49Yes.
00:22:50Now, I'm giving those explanations because understanding human behavior and how it relates to the law is really important.
00:22:57So, sometimes the person actually not being ignorant, right?
00:23:01They're just in a wrong state of mind or an incorrect, not wrong, incorrect state of mind.
00:23:09That's one.
00:23:10And two is, and I would say, and I'm going based on the research I did, more female drivers now than male said that they have a certain fear of switching lanes.
00:23:18So, when they're in one lane, they like to stick in.
00:23:21Unless to them is a clear safety, they could go again.
00:23:25I'm not condoning the breaking of the law.
00:23:27I would just stick up in the night because I want you to continue.
00:23:31It's a bad fever, man.
00:23:32Because, one, you're saying they have a fear.
00:23:36So, let me help you guys out there.
00:23:39You have a fear, don't drive.
00:23:42You can't be on the road behind a machine that can kill and decide that you're fearful of something.
00:23:48If you're in fear of that, this is not where, if you're in fear, go forward and live and be courageous and all that.
00:23:55You are behind a machine.
00:23:56People tend to take it as a form of leisure.
00:23:58You are something that, you know, can take away someone that is very dangerous.
00:24:03Check the road fatalities.
00:24:04And, you're in fear of moving and persons who decide, hey, you know what?
00:24:10I'm going eastbound.
00:24:11I'm going to Piaco.
00:24:13I'm going to drive in the right lane all the way until I have to turn off.
00:24:18Stay in the left lane.
00:24:19Stay in the left lane.
00:24:20It's against the law.
00:24:22I said 50% of the population.
00:24:24I agree with you.
00:24:25I've read into that.
00:24:26But, it happened so many times for me.
00:24:29I had to understand why.
00:24:30And, then I started doing a test also.
00:24:32So, people who would drive slowly in the right lane, no matter male or female, I would drive next to them after and watch them.
00:24:39Yeah.
00:24:39That's the next part I'm going to do.
00:24:40We drive when we get them out.
00:24:42And, then when, after watching them and they switch lanes, after I pass, I realize they really know it's dootishness they're doing.
00:24:49Correct.
00:24:49But, some people, some people really don't know, which is the ignorance of the law.
00:24:55Right.
00:24:55Right.
00:24:55Now, I put it this way because for us, I think, to function, laws are there for a reason.
00:25:02Whether we question some of them with the validity, the relevancy to this time or not, they're there for a reason.
00:25:08Because, when, let's just say we had the Supreme Constitution where you could do whatever we want, then we realize, okay, there are certain things that started happening that we need to put certain restrictions on.
00:25:17Right.
00:25:18So, going to that, so there's some kind of logic behind it.
00:25:21Well, there ought to be.
00:25:22There ought to be some sort of logic behind it.
00:25:26So, and that's on one end.
00:25:27And, then I'll say this quick.
00:25:29Because there's the law, but then there's also the Trinity law.
00:25:33I think being.
00:25:34The social law.
00:25:36Social law.
00:25:37Being aware of the parallel between the two.
00:25:40Because, not switching lanes.
00:25:42Well, switching lanes without putting on the indicator.
00:25:45Right.
00:25:45That's against the law.
00:25:46But, I think, and I think, I know when people are going on switching lanes now because I understand the mentality on the road.
00:25:55So, I don't need to know it.
00:25:57That's not how it's supposed to be.
00:25:58Right.
00:25:59But, I understand it.
00:26:00And, sometimes, I remember once I was coaching a client who got an accident, was traumatized, and we were doing some reconditioning back on the road.
00:26:08And, what I was explaining to her is, look for what it is, not how you think it should be.
00:26:14And, when she started doing that, her driving improved because she could see when people are trying to squeeze her.
00:26:19She could see when people are going and change without the indicator on.
00:26:23So, I'm putting it that way, one, navigating the law under the law.
00:26:27We're talking about the road.
00:26:28It could be other things.
00:26:29But, also, I understand the importance of being mindful of what the law truly is.
00:26:34So, I want us to get into, because I don't want the episode to finish.
00:26:39There's so much that could be packed into this.
00:26:41There's so many other peeves.
00:26:42But, I really want us to now, in a granular fashion, determine, and in a more focused way, as we talk about arrogance,
00:26:54the difference as well between that and certain things that might be deemed cool.
00:26:59So, growing up, your parents' rules, your parents' law, in the house, let's face it, we all watch a Playboy,
00:27:07or, I mean, I don't even know if they have that magazine.
00:27:10You still subscribe?
00:27:13I don't even know if those things exist anymore.
00:27:15They do.
00:27:16You do?
00:27:16Your Visa card being charged and you have no idea.
00:27:18So, when we come to this, there are things, porn, all of these things that even, you know, I mean,
00:27:25the iteration now is Pornhub and all these other things now from what was Playboy.
00:27:31The point is, you may know it's inappropriate by your parents or by the laws of which the home or the societal environment that you're in is governed, right?
00:27:41So, they're different.
00:27:42There's law as in government, law, country law, but there are laws that we, that are applied to us in our deal.
00:27:51Well, rules, again, we have a discussion because we're still coming around arrogance and ignorance to it.
00:28:02What then determines, okay, well, I can break this or I can do this and then there's a law of the country.
00:28:07It's all forms in your mind of breaking something that you know is wrong, right?
00:28:13And I'm saying to you, at what point, so there's being cool.
00:28:17So, for example, before the marijuana was decriminalized, it was cool to say, hey, be one of the rebels and take your little pull.
00:28:28And I'll smile in there.
00:28:29I know you want to talk about that.
00:28:30You have your own peel, you know?
00:28:31But then there's also, there's also within that where in our lives, we wouldn't be sitting down here right now had it not been for people that have lobbied in different ways,
00:28:44whether go to the court and actually made, you know, to have something changed or stood for something and marched against it because it wouldn't be changed.
00:28:53You know, for example, slavery.
00:28:56And so, I want us to talk more about that, also that understanding, you know, as to when, is there any guidance as to when a law should be broken?
00:29:10Well, is there any guidance before that?
00:29:12Me saying anything about past transgressions could affect me in the future.
00:29:17You admit to something, you know?
00:29:19If you admit to an offense that's very serious, there's no statute of limitations.
00:29:25That's very serious.
00:29:26Yeah.
00:29:26Well, it's Section 34.
00:29:28That you can't be tried after 10 years.
00:29:30No.
00:29:31No, no, no, no, no.
00:29:32Okay.
00:29:32If I admit to something like...
00:29:34That has been knocked down and repealed, et cetera.
00:29:37So, if I admit what I haven't done...
00:29:40There are two types of offenses.
00:29:42Summary offenses, which are less serious, that's handled in the magistrate's court,
00:29:46and indictable offenses, which attract very serious penalties, and that is done at the high court.
00:29:54Gotcha.
00:29:54There is a six-month time limit on summary offenses.
00:29:58So, if you're committed today, six months from now, you haven't charged you, you can't be charged for it.
00:30:03Okay.
00:30:03A lot of that is traffic offenses and whatnot, et cetera.
00:30:06Okay.
00:30:07More serious offenses, robbery, discharge of a firearm, possession firearm, murder, it's indictable.
00:30:14You talk about it 20 years from now, you're getting locked up for that.
00:30:18Well, there is a case of that with that gentleman from, is it Germany, or where he spoke about a murder that happened,
00:30:27and they're now trying to extradite him.
00:30:30I don't know.
00:30:30I'm rambling.
00:30:31So, the reason I asked, the reason I asked, because one, as Trinidad and Tobago unions,
00:30:37I feel that a lot of us operate under the forgiveness is better than permission kind of thing.
00:30:42Correct.
00:30:43We'll see how far, we are bongi pushers, really and truly, right?
00:30:46And the reason why I asked a lot, because I used to dabble in the little cannabinoids back in the day, right?
00:30:53And granted, that was breaking the law.
00:30:58However, I knew personally that that law was trash, like really and truly.
00:31:03I'm like, no, no, they really understand the benefits of cannabis, blah, blah, blah.
00:31:08So, I was ignoring, or I was ignorant, or being ignorant, towards that particular law.
00:31:14I'm assuming that that applies in that situation.
00:31:16Well, I'm also thinking, Niall, as I said, when I said, who the a** are you, meaning that's our personality,
00:31:23who are you, and who am I, like when I determine I'm going to come behind that person and things like that,
00:31:28who are we to determine that a law is stupid?
00:31:31Because to someone, the difference in their moral compass, compass, compass,
00:31:37that you then decide, hey, I don't like that law.
00:31:41That law doesn't apply to my way of thinking, so it's stupid.
00:31:43It's trash.
00:31:44Well, it's only stupid if it is that I am willing to accept the consequences that come along with it.
00:31:50Correct.
00:31:50So, I'm now saying, that law is stupid.
00:31:53I'm willing to give up my freedom for it.
00:31:56I'm willing to fight for it.
00:31:57I'm willing to do a slew of other things for what I want to be part of my supreme constitution.
00:32:05Right?
00:32:05You're loving that too.
00:32:06So, yeah, I really like that.
00:32:07I got literally done a certain research for that now.
00:32:09But, but, so at that point, I would stand, I would stand my ground and be like, yo, this is what it is.
00:32:16I zapo la, you know, son?
00:32:18And whatever comes, whatever comes with that is what, it is what it is.
00:32:23Now, granted, I have been blessed to not been in any situation.
00:32:27Correct.
00:32:27That would have, I would have had to, you know, deal with those consequences.
00:32:32Unfortunately, now, you know, many moons later, it is now decriminalized.
00:32:36Now, for me, I find it's horrible for people who did get charged at a time, who are probably sitting now in prison right now for something that I did.
00:32:46And now, I could do freely out on the streets.
00:32:50Those are two different issues.
00:32:51The first thing is, it is still an offense to have a quantity of marijuana in your possession.
00:32:59Yes.
00:33:00So, they've decriminalized, meaning it's still an offense.
00:33:02But if you have a possession of a small amount for personal use, you're not going to be charged.
00:33:08So, it's like saying I'm not enforcing the offense against you in these circumstances.
00:33:13Okay.
00:33:14So, the offense is still there.
00:33:15I want you to understand that now.
00:33:17I want people to understand what Vince is talking about, the difference between it is no longer illegal and decriminalized.
00:33:24So, if you're, for example, you're working in a company, that happens.
00:33:28You're not going to be charged for it.
00:33:30You're not going to go to jail.
00:33:32You're not going to get any sort of fine.
00:33:35But you're still being deemed as breaking the law.
00:33:38It's still an offense.
00:33:39Correct.
00:33:40You're still breaking the law.
00:33:41And that, it's just that we're not going to, I mean, we, in terms of the government, the country, is not going to hold you accountable in terms of penalties for it.
00:33:51So, I want Vince to continue.
00:33:52So, just very quickly, you, it's still an offense to have marijuana possession, it's still an offense.
00:33:58It still remains there.
00:34:00Correct.
00:34:00Wrong.
00:34:00But, possession of, I believe, less than 10 grams of personal use.
00:34:05And then they had the great debate about the number of male trees and female trees in your house to grow, etc.
00:34:10You wait.
00:34:11So, once you fall within a specific set of circumstances, the government or the law enforcement are saying to you, we are not going to arrest you and prosecute you for that.
00:34:23Okay.
00:34:23That's the first thing.
00:34:25It does not mean that you could have 30 grams and walk outside a school and smoke.
00:34:30You still can't smoke outside a school and these sorts of things.
00:34:33So, common sense approach, you ought to know the things before.
00:34:38I can't be ignorant.
00:34:39You can't be ignorant and say, well, okay, this here is legal, so I can stand outside while picking up my child, smoking a big blunt.
00:34:45Right?
00:34:46And I've almost said, I don't know why I've seen it in my mind.
00:34:49Yeah.
00:34:50Somebody really do it.
00:34:51Somebody pull up, you know, with a big blunt, pick up the child from school.
00:34:56You can't be driving and smoking.
00:34:58Is that, and what a question is, that ignorance or being ignorant?
00:35:04Because even with the law, and I'm sure you encounter this, I realize, even though it's explained in a certain way, using standard English, people still don't understand what to do.
00:35:14Trinidadians.
00:35:15And not to say they do that for spite, you know.
00:35:18They interpret it to suit themselves.
00:35:20Right.
00:35:21That's if, let's just get that out there.
00:35:23It's not, it's not that they, and in this case, it's not ignorance, because they know, what they now know is that, hey, you, what the different words they call them, Babylon, popo, police, officer, all of these different things.
00:35:36What they do is, what they do is, they look at you in your face now and say, hey, hey, you can't touch me.
00:35:40So, again, because of ignorance and ignorance.
00:35:44But it's a form of arrogance, because if it is still an offense, why would you do something, and you're seeing an officer of the law, and you're purposely doing something, because you know that they can't do anything about that particular circumstance.
00:35:59And, again, this is what we talk about.
00:36:02Why do we have these behaviors?
00:36:03You know, and I wanted to explain maybe some of the thinking behind that, and then let's go to a break.
00:36:09All right.
00:36:09Once, and you remind me, I started a thesis on this and haven't finished it yet to know about why Trinidadians break the law.
00:36:18So, thank you very much.
00:36:19I feel like God chastised me yet to finish.
00:36:22Anyway, anyway.
00:36:22And not only why do we Trinidadians specifically break the law, but why, like, in this specific instance, you know it's out in the open, and it's like the rebel, the rebel in us.
00:36:33What I got is, in some of my limited research thus far, is we, in ourselves, the passive resistance folks are going back from slavery time.
00:36:42Even though all races weren't involved in slavery, passive resistance was something that was born out of slavery.
00:36:48And passive resistance included things like, in terms of calypso, drums, we would do things.
00:36:54Right.
00:36:54So, our culture became, or was birthed in the genesis, was out of passive resistance.
00:37:01So, therefore, we have a lot of passive resistance in us.
00:37:04We are skilled at passive resistance.
00:37:07In our DNA.
00:37:07Yes, exactly.
00:37:09Perfect.
00:37:10Perfect.
00:37:10I love the pun intended, right?
00:37:13And, so, therefore, that's why things, that's why we're good at, when something happens, instead of facing it directly, instead of going and lobby, which we should do, we would do calypso, create memes, quarrel about it in the rum shop.
00:37:29Sure, that's meme.
00:37:30I mean, that's sort of, yes.
00:37:32Or, or, or, we would say, you know, well, well, forget, forget our police officers, or forget the law, you know, I just drive it on the shoulder, because, you see how this, this even, this road design, I just go in and do my own thing.
00:37:44Instead of going through, let's, I'm using proper or legal channels to do it, we emote, or we have an emotional response based on that passive, that passive resistance.
00:37:55But, of course, the passive resistance in many of these cases, illegal.
00:37:59So, therefore, even though you feel it in, as you're right, that, you know, I could see this thing is logically or illogical for how we should be operating.
00:38:10But, the thing is, I react emotionally to it.
00:38:13And, when I react emotionally, I put myself in trouble.
00:38:17So, it's like, I'll use a good example.
00:38:18I remember when they decriminalized marijuana.
00:38:20Somebody say, well, I could smoke anywhere now.
00:38:23No.
00:38:24So, what decriminalize mean?
00:38:26Instead of taking the time to understand what it is.
00:38:30So, I wouldn't say, even in that moment, the person was necessarily ignorant, because they just didn't know what decriminalize mean.
00:38:36So, I'm putting it out there, and we're understanding, one, as men, I think, and I'm bringing it back to that, because it's manhood, right?
00:38:44As men, and I take in what you said, I'm actually going to change some of my behavior in terms of being more aware of what's going on, instead of taking the passive route.
00:38:52And, I just quarrel about this.
00:38:53So, I realize, I now have to quarrel it myself.
00:38:55Part of the problem as well.
00:38:56Yeah, about being passive, about knowing the law, and then also even encouraging other people, because if we identify a law that we don't like, or it don't make sense, then we, as men, should find a way to lobby, find a way to make some change.
00:39:12We really have to go to the break, because that is the law of the land.
00:39:17The law of TV right now.
00:39:21And, I'm sure the viewers are like, okay, you know, they need a bear break or something.
00:39:26But, I really want us to, in part of our summary and those nuggets, to understand, even using the decriminalization, you know, where it's like your parents saying, you know, you could make the choice, right?
00:39:38There are no consequences to you making the choice.
00:39:40Either way, I will support you.
00:39:42And, you decide to go the latter, knowing, well, it now comes down to right and wrong, and the morality.
00:39:46Because, the law is now saying, you know, I'm not going to charge you, but it's still wrong, in the eyes of the law.
00:39:53And, you're now saying, okay, well, I'm now making that choice to do it.
00:39:57And, I want us to focus on, is the reason why we continue to break the law on our own, because everyone does it, in some form or fashion.
00:40:04Whether it be a red light, whether it be a illegal U-turn, some form or fashion, we are breaking the law.
00:40:10And, then, we tell ourselves, you know, we're justifying it within ourselves.
00:40:16And, when we do these things, are we doing it out of ignorance?
00:40:22Or, are we doing it because we can simply say, we can get away with it?
00:40:26It's Trinidad.
00:40:27I could get away with that.
00:40:29We can.
00:40:30And, that's the reality.
00:40:31We do get away with it.
00:40:33Some more than others.
00:40:35But, we take a short break.
00:40:40All right, folks.
00:40:47We're back.
00:40:48Of course, the talk is real spicy in the break.
00:40:50But, you know, we'll bring in the conversation, as always.
00:40:53We have Rob Johansson and Vincenzo.
00:40:56Vincenzo?
00:40:56Vincenzo.
00:40:58Vincenzo.
00:40:59Right?
00:40:59Of course, the main topic that I feel that keeps reoccurring, that a lot of Trinidadians break, is on the roads.
00:41:08Right?
00:41:09And, it's been, even the people behind the cameras, the main pet peeve is people driving in the left lane.
00:41:15I didn't think it was so big.
00:41:16Right lane.
00:41:17Right lane.
00:41:17Sorry, in the extreme right lane.
00:41:19In the overtaking lane.
00:41:20Now, I made a mention, which is, of course, I always try to break down as to, who are these people?
00:41:26For me, personally, I've always only mostly seen.
00:41:30Now, guys, I know, you know, it's cancel culture out here, but really, actually, they're really business.
00:41:34Mostly seen women in the right lane.
00:41:38Correct.
00:41:39Women in the right lane driving slow.
00:41:40Driving under the speed limit.
00:41:44Under the speed limit.
00:41:45Okay.
00:41:45And, I feel like a lot of the times, which, in their mind, I believe, they're being the most safe, because not being in the center lane is very intimidating.
00:41:54The center lane itself.
00:41:56Especially when it's a big truck passing on the side, and a big truck passing on the side.
00:42:00So, I get that you might see them mostly on the right lane, just off of comfort of driving.
00:42:08But, remember what I was saying before.
00:42:10I went and asked, I asked people, you know, I chose, I had, maybe, it was close to 100 people, right?
00:42:16I can't remember, no, because it was some years ago.
00:42:18And, I asked people, and most women said in that sample that they, it wasn't, it was afraid, but they are more comfortable driving in one lane.
00:42:27So, they choose that one lane and go.
00:42:28And, because, in their mind, it is the fast lane, it's better I choose the fast lane, because I'm moving fast.
00:42:34And, I'm over there.
00:42:35So, even though I'm driving under the speed limit, I'm, in their mind, it's moving fast.
00:42:39Now, I'm saying mostly because it was about, I would say, 80, 85% women said this.
00:42:44So, I'm going based on that sample.
00:42:46So, we're not assuming that that's what was said.
00:42:48If you want to go in one lane, we are blessed, we are blessed in Toronto, Tobago, that alongside every highway, we have our main road.
00:42:56Go on the main road.
00:42:57No, but the main road, the main road has plenty of traffic.
00:42:59Well, and you want to drive slow?
00:43:01No, but listen, man, this is where the children are.
00:43:03When you're on the highway, if there are traffic on the main road, I'm not driving on the main road, because you're supposed to make better infrastructure.
00:43:11So, I would drive slow on the highway.
00:43:12And, if you're in fear, you shouldn't be driving.
00:43:14I can't agree to that.
00:43:16I can't agree to that.
00:43:17I can't agree to that.
00:43:18Women, women's brains are very logic-based.
00:43:23What?
00:43:23Not when it comes to relationships with men.
00:43:26Okay.
00:43:27I'm saying that the female species, I believe, shows far more intelligence than the male species.
00:43:38I agree.
00:43:39I agree with that.
00:43:40I agree to that.
00:43:41I'm not saying you have to agree.
00:43:43I'm saying they apply logic.
00:43:45Women is boss.
00:43:45They apply logic to all aspects of their life, except relationships, right?
00:43:52And driving being one of those things.
00:43:56And that, your example and your data set, is evidence of that.
00:44:02That in their mind, and I say they, the female mind, right?
00:44:06This change in lane business is dangerous, etc.
00:44:09If I am going at or just below the actual speed limit, the safest place for me is there.
00:44:19Yes?
00:44:20Okay.
00:44:20Because that's the clearest lane.
00:44:21Vince, you see that word you use?
00:44:23And I'm going to correct you.
00:44:25And of course, we can debate.
00:44:26We might not along.
00:44:27But you see, you use the word logical and are disagreeing because it's more survival.
00:44:32Because of how women evolve as in physically weaker, they perceive the world based on their survival.
00:44:40So, women are great rule followers, right?
00:44:43Yes.
00:44:43We are not.
00:44:44We men are not great rule followers.
00:44:46It's applied to us.
00:44:46So, they do their best, do their best to follow the rules.
00:44:52But sometimes it's based on survival.
00:44:54So, even though driving under the speed limit is not following the rules, it's still based on their survival.
00:44:59Yeah.
00:44:59Yeah, that really changed my outlook on it.
00:45:03He has a tendency.
00:45:04It seems that women would, as you say, based on survival, stay in the right lane, which inadvertently, they are breaking the law.
00:45:13However, I almost never, ever see a woman driving on the shoulder.
00:45:18Correct.
00:45:18There's always men.
00:45:19Correct.
00:45:19Who do not.
00:45:21Breaking the law.
00:45:21So, it is intentionally breaking the law.
00:45:25So, let me ask you something, guys.
00:45:27That actually makes sense.
00:45:27Let me ask you something, guys.
00:45:28Wait, wait.
00:45:29I just want to say something.
00:45:30No, wait, wait, wait.
00:45:30I want to say something.
00:45:31I want to say something.
00:45:32No, because he's going to bring it in your summary.
00:45:35All right.
00:45:36You're going to bring it in your summary.
00:45:37I don't remember this.
00:45:37I will help you remember that.
00:45:39Right?
00:45:39I will help you remember that.
00:45:42In that, with regards to, you're saying you don't see women.
00:45:47Again.
00:45:48Undertaking on his shoulder.
00:45:49Undertaking on his shoulder.
00:45:50Right?
00:45:51Now, this is not about women.
00:45:52This is not about, just what we may have noticed.
00:45:55Right?
00:45:55We're not saying that women, this is not an attack on women, to say that women are the
00:45:59ones that are doing it all the time.
00:46:00Right?
00:46:02But it is an observation.
00:46:04Right?
00:46:05I'm saying to you, is it then that based on what Johansson is talking about, where we
00:46:09take these chances, is it that one, I want to come back to, we believe we will get
00:46:15away with it?
00:46:16Is it that we simply don't care?
00:46:18Is it that there's some form of adrenaline rush behind the possibility of being caught?
00:46:28Depends on, because we're talking about, we're talking about on the road here, but this topic
00:46:33here today is the overall ignorant to the law and ignorance of the law.
00:46:39So, I'm saying, and we're just using, as an example, for analogy purposes, we're talking
00:46:47about the biggest one, which is on the road, which is something that people experience on
00:46:51a regular basis.
00:46:53But I'm speaking overall.
00:46:54How do we feel about that?
00:46:55As to the why?
00:46:56Why do we do it?
00:46:57Well, not even the why.
00:46:58For me, there's two types of persons there.
00:47:01Right?
00:47:02There's those that should know better, and those that do not care.
00:47:06Don't give a damn.
00:47:07Yeah?
00:47:08I always say it's stronger, don't I?
00:47:10Well, they don't give a s***.
00:47:12Are they stronger?
00:47:15We do not give a s***.
00:47:18Right?
00:47:19And apologies, Trinidad and Tobago.
00:47:22Right?
00:47:22The vast majority of them fall into the, I don't give a bleep.
00:47:27You understand?
00:47:28Because they know better, they should know better, but don't care.
00:47:33Yeah?
00:47:34Yeah?
00:47:34We did a small mini poll here, and I think it comes down to a lot of it to your home.
00:47:40Yeah?
00:47:40Remember, if you could break a small law, you could break a big law.
00:47:44And that applies from the port worker right up to the president of the country.
00:47:51Yeah?
00:47:51It's a mindset.
00:47:53That if you decide, man, that's not important, you could break a small law, you could break the biggest law of the land.
00:47:58It's just a question of a factual matrix there.
00:48:01And I'm saying that we need to take responsibility, and we need to say, I know better, and practice that in our lives.
00:48:12And what about the arrogance, Vince, to that, that I am in a particular position, I know if I do that, I could get away with it, or I know somebody, or I could call somebody.
00:48:22In the same way you brought up earlier about the marijuana smoking, where how many of a particular class or particular demographic do you see behind bars for the same infraction?
00:48:38Because it's a scene that, hey, if I do something, I could get away today.
00:48:43I have no way I'm making a jail.
00:48:45I make two, three phone calls, or daddy, or somebody's going to make two, three phone calls.
00:48:49And how is it then, to the person in those environments, in those communities, seeing that, are then going to feel, as a Trinidad and Tobago citizen as well,
00:49:00that why is it I am going through this oppression?
00:49:03Why is it I even subjected?
00:49:05Nobody's saying, I mean, you shouldn't break the law regardless.
00:49:08But why is it seemingly there's one rule and one consequence for one person, and then one for another?
00:49:14It is going to get people.
00:49:16I think you're talking privilege.
00:49:17Let's just throw it out there.
00:49:18Throwing it out there.
00:49:20Privilege.
00:49:20We're throwing it out there.
00:49:21And therefore, people necessarily are going to rise up and fight against that unfairness.
00:49:26So I spent a lot of my early years, I've been practicing 15 years now in Trinidad, right?
00:49:32A lot of my early years doing the grunt work, magistrates court, marijuana possession, trafficking, these sorts of things, the occasional gun and whatnot, etc.
00:49:40But I understand what you're saying there, because the people that came before the court, based on the representation that they got, determined the outcome.
00:49:51I did a hell of a lot of pro bono.
00:49:56And there was one case in particular that really struck me, where the police had alleged that this young man with no previous record, and in the ghetto, you know, when you're in your early 20s, and a clean record, you're a model citizen.
00:50:12Of course.
00:50:12Yeah.
00:50:13And I talk in early 20s, he was a wasa worker, and he had gone to purchase, to smoke, which was still illegal then.
00:50:23Right.
00:50:24And police pull up on the block.
00:50:26And they're alleging that he is the actual dealer now.
00:50:30And part of the evidence was that they pulled out, in his front right pocket, you hear that for every single case, they pull it out, and they found a black plastic bag containing 23 foil packets with plant-like substance resembling that of marijuana.
00:50:48Right.
00:50:48So you know what, if I repeat that, I've heard it's a hundred thousand.
00:50:51Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:51And I sat down, I thought to myself, I have two police saying this, and everybody who was there scattered, they weren't coming to give evidence.
00:50:59Right.
00:51:00How are you going to represent this man?
00:51:02Okay.
00:51:02So I sit around at night, and I say, hey, I physically rolled up 25 pieces of tin foil.
00:51:09I didn't put plant-like substance, et cetera.
00:51:11Put it in a black plastic bag, and brought it into the trial itself.
00:51:16Right.
00:51:17And just to show how unfeasible it was that story was.
00:51:23How ridiculous.
00:51:23That he could have had it concealed in there.
00:51:25In his right pockets.
00:51:25Nobody saw it and all that, et cetera.
00:51:27I was successful in the end.
00:51:30And that got me to thinking that it really is a privileged situation.
00:51:35Now, that case was actually pro bono.
00:51:38But ordinarily, I wouldn't have taken the time to do that for each one.
00:51:41Sometimes I say, boss, it's better you plead this out.
00:51:44Right?
00:51:45You might get, it's your first offense.
00:51:46You might get a reprimand or discharge.
00:51:48You might get a bond, these sorts of things.
00:51:50I was always cognizant to what they were telling me.
00:51:53If a man tell me, boss, this wasn't me.
00:51:55Right.
00:51:56I fight in tooth and nail.
00:51:57In a sentence until proven guilty.
00:51:59But there's no way I would apply that to every case because I physically couldn't.
00:52:03I had to make a living too.
00:52:04Right.
00:52:05You know?
00:52:05So that's what I'm saying.
00:52:06So to come back very quickly, privilege exists.
00:52:09Right.
00:52:10One rule for one, one rule for another.
00:52:11And if that exists to the person who's on the receiving end and the negative impact to their end is going to deem something unfair.
00:52:19And when people deem something unfair, regardless whether or not they too have broken the law, they're going to act out.
00:52:26And you see it all the time.
00:52:27How come he get away?
00:52:28How come this one night?
00:52:29Like, and he do it too.
00:52:31You see people say it all the time.
00:52:32No, I agree with what you're saying.
00:52:36And I'm glad it's a good point because this is something I'll give you too from an academic point of view and also from, I think, a social and a real life and a man point of view.
00:52:45One is, and for that same thesis, and thanks again, fellas.
00:52:48You're doing your thesis, eh?
00:52:49Yeah, right.
00:52:50It's actually in forensic psychology.
00:52:53And I had to spend some time in court here in Trinidad analyzing and observing.
00:52:58And what I realized is, I mean, I didn't go through every letter of the law, but the law in itself in a lot of cases, fear.
00:53:04But the people executing it, not fear, because it's human still, right?
00:53:09And some of them need to come and sit down on my couch and need us to walk through some of these things.
00:53:13But anyway, and I say that because that is still the reality of things.
00:53:17So, as a man, as a citizen, understand that, one, I think you should know the law, but also understand that the reality is that it also depends on privilege.
00:53:29It also depends on how the judge feel in that day.
00:53:32It also depends on knowing the reality of things.
00:53:35Because let's just say somebody in the quote-unquote ghetto can't do something, quote-unquote, somebody in another neighborhood who may be able to afford the proper representation.
00:53:46And even though it may seem unfair, but we hear it a million times, life is unfair, it's the reality.
00:53:53And as men, I think we need to face the reality.
00:53:56So, young men, older men, middle-aged men who are watching out there, and even women, help your sons and even yourself understand that, see things as they are, not how we think they should be.
00:54:07And if we want to change it, then I think we should go along the proper lines, which is we go and lobby.
00:54:13Now, our lobby is not today for tomorrow.
00:54:16But the point is, in the meanwhile, instead of being that passive resistance, well, I would just break the law because, of course, that cannot stand up in court.
00:54:24So, it's better to face the reality of things and go by the rules that are necessary to change the things that we don't like.
00:54:32So, I'm going to use, coming off the back of what you said, as my summary, because we need to wrap up, these conversations can always go on, and it's very important.
00:54:43And again, I always start having one perspective and an end, or each time I think there's no way I'm going to change it.
00:54:49Somehow, I'm really grateful and I feel blessed to be part of these conversations.
00:54:55And I hope that the viewers also feel the same after these conversations.
00:54:59And we hope that, in some way, we've impacted your initial thought on a particular perspective.
00:55:06And even if it's one moment that's changed to show a more positive impact in Trinidad and Tobago, and by extension, the world, then I think we've done ourselves justice.
00:55:19You mentioned about life, and we make our choices, right?
00:55:28And life isn't fair.
00:55:30That's the reality.
00:55:32Life isn't fair.
00:55:33And whether ignorant of the law, as in ignorance of the law, or ignorant to the law, we make a choice.
00:55:41And by making a choice, then we have to, if it doesn't come in our favor, we then have to suffer or face the consequences as a result of that.
00:55:53So whether it means I'm going down a particular road and don't realize that there's no one-way sign, and the sign drop off, or whatever the case may be, the point is the law is the law for the reason.
00:56:05And it's not one rule for one and one for the other.
00:56:08It's supposed to be the law.
00:56:09So breaking the law is breaking the law, and we know when right is wrong.
00:56:14I'm not going to go on a lot longer.
00:56:16I've got a lot more I want to say, and I'm sure you guys are going to summarize it.
00:56:19But as Johansson pointed out, I started really long in my intro.
00:56:23So in my outro, I'm going to cut it short and allow, you know, I really want to hear from you guys.
00:56:29Niall, go ahead.
00:56:30Okay, as a certified Nepo baby, I will end with, I understand the ignorance of my ways in applying forgiveness over permission in my everyday life.
00:56:46And in hearing this conversation, you know, I realized that the reason why I thought like that is because I had certain privileges that most people don't have in Trinidad and Tobago.
00:56:59And that was, that is what was, you know, blurring my outlook.
00:57:03So after this conversation, and I actually thank, you know, all you, all you gentlemen for that.
00:57:09I am now, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm slowly changing my internal narrative of forgiveness over permission.
00:57:17And I feel like I should take a little bit more time to pay attention to the laws and the rules that were placed by individuals.
00:57:31Yeah.
00:57:32More important than me.
00:57:33No, no, no.
00:57:34Say that.
00:57:34Okay.
00:57:35Well, say by persons, duly elected persons to represent my, my, um, interests, interests.
00:57:43By duly elected persons who were there to represent my interests.
00:57:51Yeah.
00:57:53Yeah.
00:57:54Yeah.
00:57:55Well, you'll have as a summary.
00:57:55No one more important than you and me.
00:57:58I actually, I actually, I actually like that.
00:57:59Thank you for that.
00:58:00Actually, that's, that was needed.
00:58:02Vince, what's your summary?
00:58:03Summary is, for me, um, the cliche, be the change you want to see in the world.
00:58:09Right.
00:58:10Um, take responsibility for your actions.
00:58:14If you are prepared for the consequences, do what you are to do.
00:58:17But I think that as men sitting around here, we need to start creating the positive impact
00:58:24we want to see outside ourselves.
00:58:27I'm not perfect.
00:58:29Far from.
00:58:30Right.
00:58:30But every day I try to be 1% better than I was yesterday with the view that over time,
00:58:35I would morph into that person that I want to be.
00:58:38Hmm.
00:58:39And it's over time.
00:58:40So to end, I just try to put out something positive every day in my life and just affect
00:58:48my, my, my personal sphere of influence with the view that hopefully they would then create
00:58:53that butterfly effect.
00:58:54Okay.
00:58:55Perfect.
00:58:55And, and Vince, people, knowledge is power.
00:59:01So the more we know, the more we have power over our situation, not necessarily power over
00:59:06someone, but at least we can manage ourselves better.
00:59:09We could manage risk because we wouldn't even know if we could face the consequences, if
00:59:15we're not even aware of the consequences.
00:59:16So what I'm taking also as a man, I should be as aware I can be to protect myself and
00:59:24also my family.
00:59:24And then we, as men, we collectively, the more that we know, because of course, what
00:59:29you know, I don't know, vice versa and et cetera.
00:59:31So that's why it's good.
00:59:33We all congregate as men.
00:59:34Yeah.
00:59:35Speaking positivity.
00:59:36I mean, we could have fun and laugh and laugh towards speaking positivity so that we could
00:59:40incite, create and stimulate that change that is best for yourselves, your families and
00:59:46the nation as a whole.
00:59:47This is Manhood.
00:59:48Thank you very much for tuning in.
00:59:50We have Robert, myself, Johanse.
00:59:52We have Vince and we have Nyle.
00:59:55And I do want to, I want, I want to close on one particular point because I don't want
01:00:01this to leave and I want it to be reiterated.
01:00:04If you don't like something or you don't like the law or you find it stupid or trash, whatever
01:00:10your thoughts are on the particular law, lobby, lobby to get a change.
01:00:15That is within the law and within your right.
01:00:18You know, there's that saying, plant a tree from which shade you may never experience, but
01:00:22at least you start the process.
01:00:23Make that change as we've heard from all our brothers here.
01:00:33Manhood.
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