Is spirituality necessary for men?
With Brandon Best
With Brandon Best
Category
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TVTranscript
00:00Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.
00:09Welcome to another conversation on manhood.
00:13I'm going to see it again, I'm going to see it again, yes, yes.
00:17Another big one, another powerful one here on manhood.
00:20Today's topic is, is spirituality necessary as a man?
00:26I want you to hear that again.
00:28Is spirituality necessary as a man, to be a man, to become a man, to continue as a man?
00:37Is spirituality necessary?
00:41So to my right, Johan C.I.O.D.K., Behavior Change Consultant.
00:46To his right, Brandon Best, Gospel Artist, Radio Announcer, Radio Consultant, Sky Boss.
00:53So many other names, really a pleasure to have him here on the set.
00:58And to his right, make sure the pot don't start to bubble, because we have Vibes God himself, Niall McNish.
01:05Brandon, you'll understand why, and why that's so apt to that gentleman.
01:09So, is spirituality necessary to be a man?
01:15Is spirituality necessary as a man?
01:19Can I come out of the blocks one time and say, I'm happy that you all said spirituality and not religion.
01:26And I find that a lot of the times, we don't clarify the difference between the two.
01:32How do you mean?
01:33We spent a whole show on clarifying recently.
01:35You also want to know if he's watching something else.
01:38A lot of the times.
01:39It wasn't clarified for him, right?
01:40Not all of the time.
01:43A lot of the times, we do not do it.
01:46And I just want to reiterate to the people at home that there's religion and there's spirituality.
01:52And someone who may not be religious, do not frown or look down on them as such.
01:57I just wanted to be very pellucidly clear.
02:02But just for our loved brothers and sisters out there, season finale, manhood, season one.
02:12Check it out.
02:13We spoke about spirituality.
02:15We'll make sure Niall gets the link.
02:17He'll refresh himself.
02:19So, we're out the blocks.
02:21But we have our false start.
02:22Yeah.
02:23You could give us a working definition for spirituality.
02:29I wouldn't say I'll give you a working definition.
02:31But I believe, here's what I can do.
02:33I can just put it in as much layman terms as possible, right?
02:37I would feel as though, if we look at spirituality, I think it would be one's connection with a former higher power, the creator, their creator.
02:46For me, I'm a Christian.
02:48So, you know, I'm going to stand on that particular basis.
02:51But true, the thing is, what is that man's relationship with whatever their creator is at that point in time that they consider spirituality?
02:59Do you believe that there's a world that exists outside of this one that dictates or even controls or influences to some degree the life that you experience?
03:09And also, do you submit to that, those rules, those constructs, those things?
03:15I think that I would kind of place as a measure.
03:18So, Brandon, the absence of focus and the absence of purpose, the absence of destination means you're all over the place.
03:26You have no direction.
03:27You don't know where you're going, whether you're coming or going.
03:29So, are we saying that you must have something, someone, some being?
03:36Because even in the absence of that, if you're certain of an absence of that, that in itself is still some focus.
03:45It's still a belief.
03:46Your belief is that you don't believe.
03:48So, I just want us to further clarify spirituality outside of religion and the various facets, assets, as we break it down granular into what spirituality is.
04:02And, if you don't mind, your further definition of what you understand as a man.
04:07Yeah, most definitely.
04:08Well, over the back, let me just say, I want to start with my stance on this generally.
04:14I believe that it's impossible for a man to truly be a man without spirituality.
04:18All right?
04:18Impossible.
04:19I feel as though my brothers may disagree at some point in time, but I don't see it as possible.
04:24I'm there with you.
04:24Yeah.
04:25I don't see it as possible because the truth is, I ultimately believe, some people say your belief is not knowledge,
04:31but I believe that one cannot be able to truly guide their life unless they truly understand the manufacture of that thing.
04:40It's like a car saying, like, I just want to know where to drive.
04:43You give a GPS, but still has no real control over all of its facets.
04:47You kind of need to know your maker.
04:49You really do.
04:50And, you really don't understand life until they start to really understand your creator.
04:54And, I think, we are just blinded by the fact that we think that we are manly.
04:58You know, we think that we are so logical that we can make all these nice and wonderful decisions on our own.
05:04You know, and we feel good to know that we can choose.
05:06But, the reality is that we could be choosing wrong and have no idea.
05:09We could be deciding wrong and have no idea.
05:11We could be deciding out our will and purpose and have no idea.
05:15We're just making decisions.
05:16I think that from a minute or just a small level, one should at least start with the understanding that, here's what, there is somebody bigger than me.
05:24Somebody who has a better ability to make decisions more than me.
05:28And, I need to start to tap in and connect with that if I really want to be good at this leadership thing.
05:34Because, to me, it's all about that, too.
05:36I can't lead good if I can't follow well.
05:39And, if I don't know who to follow, that's a big problem.
05:42So, I want to start to follow somebody who I believe has real good leadership.
05:45Why not the creator of the universe?
05:47You know, you mentioned that you have to, is about, my worry or concern is those ideas or ideologies can be taught to you, right?
06:00So, in other words, I may not personally have a connection with my creator or my maker.
06:05And, I am now relying on that information of who my identity is supposed to be spiritually, is being told to me by someone who may also not have an actual proper connection with their maker, right?
06:23So, that's where I, I'm being very careful, right?
06:30No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
06:32I'm being careful.
06:33I'm being careful.
06:33What is that, though?
06:34You're on the box.
06:35No, because religion and spirituality is a whole different.
06:38It's one thing for me to say differently.
06:40No, but, Niall, we're here to speak one as men.
06:43And, you see, religion and spirituality is such a, has so much dynamics in it.
06:49Because, we can get different definitions.
06:52Because, even the show that we had, it had so many different definitions to understand it.
06:57And, then, I think part of the conclusion was, as a man, you have to understand what it means for you.
07:01Because, I can't really tell Brandon how to be spiritual or what his spiritual life should look like.
07:07And, I can't tell you, you know, we could have discussions, we could give advice.
07:11But, to actually direct somebody else's spiritual life, that's at least the conclusion we had last time, right?
07:17And, me thinking about it now, I'm actually glad we're having this conversation.
07:22Because, I realize spirituality and that spiritual work is something you can't predict.
07:29I can't see what's going to happen tomorrow or next week or anything.
07:32And, I, for me, for me, I understand it's a relationship.
07:38And, a relationship with something higher than myself, right?
07:41And, I'm saying something because, according to the Christians, it's something.
07:44According to Muslims, it's something.
07:45According to Hindus, it's something else.
07:47But, for me, I would say I know, not necessarily believe, but I know that there's something higher than me.
07:52Because, I didn't create myself.
07:54So, there's something that creates me.
07:55Whatever that is.
07:56And, it's me, every day, having that honest, and I'm going to get honest there, relationship with that person or that being.
08:04Because, religion, for me, is I have to get up 6 o'clock every morning and read the Bible.
08:09No matter what it is, how I feel, whatever it is.
08:12I would say that's religion.
08:13But, spirituality might be I wake up at that time and the spirit or the energy say, I should go outside and walk.
08:20I should go outside and pray.
08:22Maybe I should stay home.
08:24Maybe I should call somebody and have a conversation.
08:26It's more of a relationship to me and a fluent thing than a militant thing that I have to do.
08:32Yeah, I feel it.
08:34I understand what Niall is saying, you know.
08:35It's not the question you're asking as well.
08:37You know, you see, he's talking about as well in terms of if, you know, people, what you understand spirituality to be is what people told you, you know.
08:45And, you're leaning on knowledge that they themselves aren't too sure about.
08:50But, here's what.
08:51You know the reality of life is that that's all that we do.
08:54You just brush your teeth.
08:55Yeah.
08:55Bro, somebody tell you to brush your teeth, you know.
08:57Like, honestly, we were convinced that this was right.
09:01They say, okay, we can prove scientifically.
09:03From which books?
09:04Yeah, because somebody else had to get that information.
09:07There's enough information from people that teach us things that we absolutely believe.
09:12Spirituality is one of those things where it's one of the only things that when we come to it, it's like, yeah, but nah.
09:16You know, somebody taught me, somebody teach you, teach you, teach you.
09:20Nah, but the truth is that everything we have to learn has been on acquired knowledge from somebody.
09:26And, even, we look at the animals, everything you realize, here's what, there has to be some form of design.
09:32I think the argument here isn't that there isn't a creator, but still, you know, there is some type of design.
09:37We get the knowledge of saying, a lot of people are agreeing, here's what, there's a creator.
09:42The knowledge for this now is how do we connect with that creator.
09:45The knowledge of this is how do we build relationship with that.
09:47And, really, as a man now, how do we let that lead into our lives to make good decisions for what we do and how we raise our families and how we run our lives.
09:56You get what I'm saying?
09:56Totally understand that.
09:57Now, you did say I was taught to brush my teeth, right?
10:02But, these are things that are based in reality or based in things that can be measured and tested and hence why the information will be passed on.
10:12But, when you're talking about something as abstract as spirituality where there's no measurement,
10:18this is now we're going on the faith of others that came before us, which is understandable.
10:25But, again, now it comes down to a trust because I have to trust really and truly, which now comes back down to faith.
10:32But, that's the very definition of faith.
10:34The very definition of that is, you know, the trust and that that cannot be seen, but yet you believe.
10:40So, that in itself is faith.
10:42So, then, what we're talking about, then, is the faith in my fellow man.
10:47No, not necessarily.
10:49Can you, can you, can you, you're breathing now.
10:51Mm-hmm.
10:52Can you, can you see it?
10:54See the air?
10:54Can you taste it?
10:55No.
10:55But, you know it's there.
10:57Yes.
10:58So, faith, faith in its, I mean, we're going on a road of preaching a little bit.
11:02But, but, but, but just to say that, so, they, they, obviously the beliefs of faith, the, the, in the, faith and anxiety can't live in the same space as faith.
11:12Fear and anxiety exist because of lack of faith, right?
11:16So, you talk about things that you've learned.
11:19But, because you've learned it doesn't mean that you adopt it.
11:22You just know that some things exist and you inside, your soul, as we see with, you know, be it movies like Avatar and things like that, there's a connection.
11:30People believe, they still believe in something, that there's some way they're connected, right?
11:34And as a result of that connection, it doesn't mean that you may start off, you may be brought up in a Hindu household or you may be brought up in a Catholic household and find yourself becoming a Muslim or Buddhist or Jew or, you know, like there are various religions that you might speak to you and connect to you based on your experiences or societal influences.
11:57You know, but it, it must come from somewhere because even, even the persons who may say they don't believe or the person that believes any leader, there must be a student and a master.
12:07You know, you hear about Sifu, you hear words like Young Padawan and, you know, Jedi.
12:12I mean, all of these books and fictions and things like that, there's always a master and a student.
12:17So even for top leaders, right, they would have had someone that was, you know, that was their mentor and therefore they take on board whatever that mentor knows.
12:27Remember, they know what they know and they give that information and that person then takes it, either drops it or takes it to another, another level.
12:35And for me, it would be the same thing with spirituality.
12:38So spirituality is in essence, I mean, religion is religion, but religion is a form of spirituality.
12:45But I think that we all have spirituality in some form or fashion because as I said from the start, even believing or not believing is belief in that.
12:57You're believing that that doesn't exist, but you're still connected to something.
13:02Deep.
13:03You might have to extrapolate on that a little bit more.
13:07So me not, just so that I have it clarified, right, so me not believing in something, and that is not to say that that's my thoughts, actually.
13:16I'm just speaking on the side of the devil advocate.
13:20The provocateur, yeah.
13:22Me not believing in something is you saying, I still have my own version of spirituality.
13:27Because you believe in that.
13:29You believe that nothing exists.
13:31Yeah, that's a belief.
13:32So it's a belief.
13:33So just believing in spirituality, I can't accept that.
13:37I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't conceptualize it.
13:41I'm saying belief.
13:42I'm saying believing in nothing is a belief.
13:45It is a form of something and some connectivity.
13:48Whether you want to call it a religion, you might have a religion that's based on not believing in that.
13:53If you look, and I'm saying to you that nobody's saying that spirituality, spirituality is still believing in some form of spirit.
14:02Yeah.
14:03That ends the word.
14:04Am I, am I?
14:05Well, by definition, I guess in a sense, you're trying to break it down.
14:10You spoke about faith, right?
14:13So let me go with faith.
14:14Yeah.
14:15Everybody, I think I could say this generally.
14:19Everybody have faith in something.
14:22Okay.
14:22So I'm not speaking about a being or beings or anything like that.
14:26Everybody have faith in something.
14:28So if you want to start there, because you have faith that you could make a quality product.
14:33So let's say you have faith in yourself or you have faith in, when you open your pipe, water will come out, right?
14:40Unless, all right, right.
14:42You have faith in something.
14:44So starting there, I think, and I could tell you even my path to spirituality was understanding what I have faith in.
14:53And why?
14:54Because if we look, go with evidence, it's very few things we know for sure.
14:57Because even Robert spoke about oxygen, but you don't know it's oxygen because you didn't test to see if it's really oxygen.
15:04So you don't really know that now.
15:06But, so you don't know it, right?
15:08Because, I mean, you give the difference between knowing and believing, right?
15:13You don't know it, but you believe it.
15:14And the fact that you believe it means you have faith in something.
15:17And if we go in as a man, I think every man should have faith in something.
15:21Even if you want to start with yourself.
15:23Let's say you don't believe in no God, right?
15:25But, as a man, you should at least have faith in yourself.
15:29And that's the starting of it.
15:31And if we have faith, going by Robert's definition, then if you have faith, then you have a form of spirituality.
15:36So if you want to start with believing in yourself first, I believe that's a good way to start with your spirituality.
15:42Listen, I think we have faith for many things.
15:45You had faith this along in this chair, bro.
15:47That's the truth.
15:48But it wasn't even just the fact that you sat on a chair, you know, and you believe that you can hold up your weight.
15:52You believe in the fact that there was somebody knowledgeable enough to make the chair sturdy enough for you.
15:58So it wasn't just necessarily that you were trusting the chair.
16:00You were trusting that there was somebody else who knew what they were doing about the chair.
16:04Similarly, when you go in a car, we know that the car wouldn't break down because we believe that there was somebody who did it and did it expertly well.
16:11Also, if you fly a plane, it's the same thing.
16:13So we live this life and we actually believe even by just observing each other, you know.
16:18Because what makes humanity work so well or just the universe or things work that well?
16:23We observe creation and products and things and realize that behind it, there has to be somebody intellectual enough to ensure that it works well.
16:33And because I trust these things, we just struggle with the fact that, okay, who is that person or if that person exists?
16:39But in our history of humanity, there's never been something that we have proven that came from nothing.
16:44Never.
16:44Everything was actually created.
16:48Everything that we know was created.
16:50Like everything that we know was created.
16:52We don't know nothing.
16:53It just appeared.
16:54Nothing at all.
16:56We're talking about trust and creation, you know.
16:58And I trust in you.
16:59I don't trust these guys to look at the time and take us to a break.
17:02But so I have to create one.
17:03Very good.
17:04So we're taking a moment to take a break.
17:07Manhood.
17:07That is the best you ever come with.
17:08That is smooth as well.
17:10Smooth as well.
17:12Smooth like a pie.
17:13Right?
17:14So we need to take a break.
17:15Manhood.
17:15We're talking about spirituality.
17:18And the spirituality.
17:20Do men need spirituality in their lives?
17:22Hey guys, welcome back to manhood.
17:35Anyway, we're talking about is spirituality necessary for a man?
17:41We want to get back into that conversation and we dive deeper into, you know, the impacts of spirituality on the man himself.
17:47So, yeah guys, is it really necessary now for a man to have some real connection with spirituality or is spirituality playing that type of big role in his life necessary?
17:58So the question I'd like to add to that and ask my fellow brothers here, is the absence of spirituality part of the problem that we're facing right now in society by our young brothers?
18:12Yes.
18:13I would say yes to that.
18:15But I wonder again, for me, what spirituality represents is really, and I try to break it down into logical terms, right?
18:24I know you mentioned.
18:24As logical as I could take it is, for me, religion is like guided meditation, right?
18:33You know, meditation is the highest form of prayer that a man could have for himself.
18:40In other words, you're clearing your mind.
18:42You're thinking about whatever your task is or whatever you have for yourself.
18:47Just, I am meditating.
18:48A lot of people don't even know how to do that, right?
18:51It takes skill to meditate, even for like minutes, right?
18:54So when I apply that outwardly into the religious space, I see spirituality now as when it's a group of people and we are all, I might need help, being guided to meditate.
19:07So a group of us all on the same wavelength, talking to the same, our creator.
19:15To me now that I would say the skill there is I'm able to center myself and I'm able to formulate the thoughts that's necessary for prayer to actually happen.
19:29I can't be praying.
19:29And I don't, I'm sure everyone does this and I'm sure the people at home, you start praying in your mind and then a thought popping, some random thought and it's had a start over the whole prayer.
19:37I don't know if anybody ever does that, right?
19:38It definitely happens, yeah.
19:39It's because I did not have the skill at a particular moment to be able to see my way all, the entire way through that process.
19:49Now, the reason why I give all that is to say is that men, I find, don't have that quiet of mind when necessary to be able to guide themselves through any situation.
20:02Hence what, that's what spirituality means to me.
20:04If I would, could I add, I would just add.
20:06Of course.
20:06Because you see, I really appreciate what you're saying, but I want to not necessarily fully disagree, but I want to be able to put a slant on that.
20:15Because see, meditation in oneself and spending time, quiet time with oneself and you don't know what you're doing or where you're going is a dangerous thing.
20:23Because the truth is that I could find anything to do as a man has a lot of ambition.
20:28Now, we can find many plans in a quiet time.
20:32Matter of fact, we could plan to do, to take over the world in quiet time.
20:36But what the true essence of spirituality is that spirituality should give somebody not just simply a moral code, but it should stretch them.
20:44It should put you in a position that is uncomfortable, that while you meditate, while you pray, it makes you challenge your own being.
20:51That's the whole point.
20:52The point is, I shouldn't want to do every single thing that I am ambitious to do, because everything that I'm ambitious to do could actually be dangerous to me and even the public, which I believe actually happens to our young men right now.
21:04It's that they are drawn by their ambitions for money, for sex or whatever, and they are going to run on that.
21:11But what is the spiritual guide that is actually stretching you, that is telling you that in that quiet time, do not act out on the ambition that you have in that moment.
21:20It's not about you centering yourself.
21:21It's about you actually being pulled towards a higher call.
21:24And that is actually, I think, what helps the man become much more centered, because now he's being stressed internally to do something that he feels is, okay, I want to not just simply be on my ambitions, on all of my desires, but I'm going to pull back.
21:40I'm going to have to use my aggression positively.
21:42Who's going to channel or guide that for me?
21:44You know, how I'm going to get that?
21:45It can't just be me internally doing that subjectively, because then I make all the rules.
21:51I make all the rules.
21:52I make all of, I guide myself.
21:54I guide the whole process.
21:55So then, yeah, it's okay for me to get a gun.
21:58And because I'm watching, I'm meditating, and I'm looking at Robert, I'm looking at my brother, I'm looking at Johansson, I'm looking at Nala, and I'm saying to myself,
22:07fellas, I'm taking too long to make money.
22:08So I take my quiet time, and I devise a plan.
22:13I say, boy, it's fast.
22:13If I take a gun, go and rub somebody, do this, because nothing in that quiet time is stretching me against my own ambition.
22:21And I think that is the key factor of spirituality, is that it must provide, men need to be challenged morally.
22:29And when you do that, it helps their ambitions to be conflicted, because we need to be conflicted.
22:34Without it, it's going to be chaos.
22:36You mentioned men need to be challenged morally, but your moral compass is based on your environment, and your societal influences on your community.
22:45And we actually spoke about that on an episode with Lyndon Balcaran.
22:49You know, and we spoke a lot about the community and the environment that you're raised in.
22:54And so that morality needs to start from there.
22:58So if you're in that environment, then to you, what is right and wrong is subjective to being in another environment.
23:07It could be subjective.
23:09Only if you're leaving it up to the community alone.
23:13Well, the community is what leads you to pray.
23:15Because, you know, someone's not going to grow up and just decide, oh, let me pray to whoever your creator is, because you don't know.
23:25If you grew up in the absence of Christianity, right, or Hinduism or, you know, Islam, would you know how to pray or who to pray to or what that information is in terms of the literature?
23:35What we're talking about is I could find my own version of a higher calling, a higher creator.
23:40And to do that, you must start off with some form of mentorship.
23:45There's someone that leads you to that in the first place.
23:48And then you decide after that whether that's for you or not for you.
23:51Hence, people change religions all the time or seek higher forms of spirituality.
23:57Or there's a crossover because, for example, you know, I was raised as Catholic.
24:01You know, I see myself more as Christian or more open Bible.
24:04But at the same time, I even go further and I delve into a lot of the understandings of Hinduism.
24:11You know, I understand, you know, Islam.
24:13And I take on board a lot of these other religions and I embrace them.
24:17You know, and we all go to a higher power, to a creator.
24:21And that guides my life in many other ways.
24:24When we talk about meditation, you know, forms of yoga, you know, some of the most peaceful parts of my life in terms of quiet in my mind
24:32comes from that form of meditation.
24:35So, again, you know, we then take away, you know, if you look at that,
24:39you're taking out of religion at that point and its forms of spirituality that then speak to me.
24:45But in a case of a young gentleman growing up in an environment where there's an absence of that
24:52or the spirituality there is of maybe a negative environment or something that leads them within that belief.
25:00You know, they're also, you know, people have different understandings within spirituality.
25:07And in that environment, they may say, I don't like how you're looking at me.
25:12But, you know, there are different forms of spirituality where they believe that they're doing the right thing or what is necessary.
25:25Yeah.
25:26So that could mean that because sometimes, and this is my belief, that spirituality most times is used in a positive connotation.
25:36So once you're a spiritual person, it's something positive.
25:39But if you grew up in a different environment, right, and have different forms of morality,
25:44and you follow that morality, it could be a different form of spirituality.
25:48It could be a spiritual person.
25:49And let me give you an example, right?
25:50So is it that he just said it as a behavior change consultant, you know,
25:54and everybody sort of poking up at this point?
25:57Maybe.
25:58Maybe.
25:59It gave up somebody with credits.
26:00It's how profound I say, anyway, isn't it?
26:02Yeah.
26:02Good job, bro.
26:03I had a contract killer as a client, right?
26:08And he said, he wanted to be reformed, et cetera.
26:13And he said when he killed someone, he used to pray with them after.
26:18Well, not with them, pray for them after, right?
26:21And how he looked at it was his form of spirituality.
26:25Now, I mean, you could argue against it, you could argue against it with every religious book.
26:29But we have even other books where it speak about death and killing people, et cetera.
26:36So then, and even if you look at the Bible, the Bible says we fight against principality and powers,
26:42if we're using that.
26:43So that means the principality and powers, that means it have a negative form of spirituality
26:47and a positive form of spirituality.
26:49So if we're looking at that, and as a man, we have to find, if every man have to find his form of spirituality,
26:56and we use morality as part of it, and we all grew up in a different moral code,
27:02then spirituality really is a very fluid thing, right?
27:06I'll go in there.
27:07And I'll go back to what I was saying before in terms of every man I think at a base should find something to believe in or have faith in, right?
27:17First, I can't tell the man what to have faith in because if you grew up in, I grew up in Belmont, right?
27:22You could have a different faith in and have different parts of Belmont, have different morality codes.
27:28And then you grew up somewhere and somewhere and somewhere.
27:30But first, you at least need to have something and acknowledge it to guide you, right?
27:35And then as Robert was saying, which I agree with, yeah, he started off Roman Catholic, but he was searching, right?
27:42And every man I think should be searching, what you say now will challenge your morality.
27:47So you shouldn't just accept everything for what it is.
27:50You're searching to be better.
27:51Yes.
27:51I want to be the best version of myself.
27:54But isn't that something that all men should be striving for?
27:57But you have to know, when you say you want to be a better version of yourself, you have to first understand.
28:05We must have a universal understanding of what that self-actualization is.
28:10And if we all understand that that self-actualization is in a positive manner, because you could want to be the best version of yourself, which means you're the number one contract killer.
28:20And in your environment, that is being the best.
28:24He's a better version of himself.
28:25He's a better version of himself.
28:26And that's accepted as, hey, that's a done boy.
28:29That's the perfect person.
28:31I want to be like that.
28:32Because in whatever circumstance you are, there's always somebody looking at you who wants to be like you.
28:38And so, especially those of you men who have children or uncles and so on, always know that children are looking onto you as a mentor, whether you're doing it consciously or subconsciously.
28:50So, that better version is what we ascribe to be.
28:55And it'd be nice to know what we all think is that best version.
28:59No, no.
29:00Side note, we use the word unalive now.
29:03Just telling you all.
29:05That's it.
29:05Right?
29:06Let me add.
29:07Unalive in terms of what you're talking about.
29:08We don't use the word kill or murder.
29:11Softer, softer words now.
29:12We use the word unalive because.
29:13No, you use that word.
29:14No, I'm telling you that it's easier for the clipping of things that go out on social media.
29:24We use unalive.
29:25But we'll digress for now.
29:27Yeah, you go in.
29:28Let me be the church boy in the room now, please.
29:31And I want to piggyback on where Robert was going.
29:33I think that there's also an innate built-in morality.
29:43It's like a foundation of all humans that God puts in people.
29:50You're not born evil.
29:51Yeah.
29:52So not necessarily born evil.
29:53It's just that there's something that gives you some form of a slight nudge that something ain't right.
30:00Yeah, right or wrong.
30:01Unless you're a sociopath.
30:02Exactly, right?
30:03So you tend to borrow from that morality while not holding on to its true values as yet.
30:10But you start to borrow it and you can understand, okay, if you see something happen to a child or something happen to a mother and it's in a particular light, you start to feel uncomfortable with it.
30:20When COVID happened, they were discomforted people across the board, regardless of what spiritual background they were at.
30:27But I think what helps us as well is that when we, through spirituality, I mean, I'm not against religion.
30:34I'm not against, I know most people, they might fight religion.
30:38I'm a Christian.
30:38I'm cool with that.
30:39But I know that I like it because of the fact that they also set standards, right?
30:43So I usually tell people, listen, almost everybody wants somebody to probably operate like Jesus.
30:48They don't want nobody to steal from them, kill from, well, unalive people.
30:52All right, they don't want nobody to take their neighbor, wife, no, those type of things.
30:57These are all moral things that has to challenge us as a man.
31:02And there's a standard now that I have to go outside of my community to get.
31:06So I go into now that faith, that religion, whatever, through spirituality, but I go there and I look for the moral standard.
31:13I use that standard to pull me higher because maybe, just maybe in me, I don't know what the higher standard is, but I need to actually find something.
31:22So I think, you know, for those who are Christians like me or probably those who are not, there may be something that is pulling them now to actually challenge them to be a lot better.
31:30But there is a moral standard that is outside even of our community.
31:33That I said that a person could be existing in a community, see the moral code and still see to themselves, I am, I'm here, you know, but what I want is to be better.
31:43What I want to do connected to my, to pleasing God, I just want to do something that is a lot better and be better for myself.
31:50And I believe it'll be better for my community as well.
31:52So nobody's inherently evil.
31:53We must believe that.
31:55And I do believe that, especially in Trinidad and Tobago.
31:58On this rock, we are all are sweet people.
32:00Just people have been dealt different hands in life.
32:02And as a result, they're behaving as a result of just trying to survive and what they may know in their community as a result of that.
32:10You know, you, as we speak about those types of behaviors and we keep going on the road of spirituality and religion and so on.
32:22But I do take your point.
32:25I believe that we are, we do know that right and wrong, you know.
32:30And I'm conscious of the fact that we, we need to take a break.
32:35You're right about it.
32:37I'm right about that.
32:38But before, before we take a break, as you mentioned about, you know, and Nile, you had mentioned it about when people, when we pray, we, men, it's harder for people to focus during that state of prayer.
32:52Because we're easily distracted for whatever reason.
32:54And therefore, all sorts of things come into that mind to allow it to be, to quiet that mind.
32:58So, with that being said, I know that even though we're talking about spirituality as it pertains to men, people are still going to be asking, the men out there in particular, you know, I want to hear a bit more about this on a life.
33:12Even though it's a segue, because you have one gentleman who talks about that, another person who disagrees.
33:18And I want to, and for me, I'm in between asking the question, because is this one of those things that we talk about, where terms like toxic femininity, toxic masculinity, manner lessons, and all of these, all of these phrases and things are being brought up.
33:34And the, and the correct way, the PG way to say certain things is on a life now and you want, I'm going to be back after the break.
33:43No, no, I want to talk about it before the break.
33:46Nah, Robert, you have to have a stand-up.
33:49I want to talk about it before the break.
33:50So when you want to talk, we don't want to talk about it before the break.
34:04So welcome back to manhood.
34:08Before, before the break, I mean, I know I was forced to take a break, but, um, know that, know that Johansson and I are better as brothers and we continue and it's all tongue on cheek at the end of the day.
34:18Um, but on a serious note, we're really talking about spirituality and as it pertains to a man, you know, um, spirituality within men and spirituality maketh a man.
34:30Um, um, and before we went to the break, you know, Niall had brought up a point, um, about a new word or a new phrase or terminology, um, unalive.
34:42And during the break, we had a, we had a discussion about it.
34:45And, um, Niall, if you want to just briefly let our audience know what, what that unalive is and, you know, we could get into some of our thoughts on that and how you may be asking how, what does that have to do?
34:58And how does that relate to the conversation here today?
35:01Okay.
35:02Well, just, just, just briefly.
35:03So there's a desensitization that has been happening, right?
35:09Uh, especially for social media.
35:11I could know, or let's just go with a child.
35:14A child could now see many dead bodies or unalive bodies on social media, people getting killed, injured, memed in all different sorts of ways.
35:24Right.
35:25So much so that people would even get excited being able to share these type of videos with other people.
35:30That is, that is not normal human behavior.
35:34Right.
35:35So with this staring towards desensitization, how can we stay ourselves back on using words like unalive rather than murder and kill, especially for babies is a little bit easier or a little bit, you know, is a, is a better way of getting us back there.
35:51But, um, holistically is really for not being flagged on social media, right?
35:57TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, you can now see terms like unalive where now people won't be, you know, you won't get demonetized.
36:05Now your patients will get demonetized.
36:06So what we spoke about is basically, it's that the desensitization is one thing, but it's a way to avoid being flagged.
36:15So you can continue to continue to put these videos up and people are now watching them and now feel better about themselves, so to speak, to be able to watch these videos.
36:27And instead of calling, we are now looking at something and going, oh, they're just unalive.
36:34You know, the, the, the, the, the head has been blown off or they have, they're riddled with, with, um, with ammo and, you know, they're just unalive.
36:42So are we then moving away from, you know, as we become more desensitized to that and we're now putting flowers on **** to make it look or feel or, or be more palatable and encourage more people somehow to watch it and get more likes and all the rest of this rubbish, um, to, are we then losing more and more as a result, our spirituality, that compass that we spoke about, that right and wrong?
37:11I actually think it's going towards spirituality because personally, as you say, ****, right?
37:15I prefer put flowers on ****, just saying.
37:18I prefer, rather than, even my dog just scratches back foot up a little dust on **** to make it look a little better, like, like be real.
37:25So why not make anything look a little better, just a little better, we all, you know?
37:30Yeah, I think that's the problem.
37:32Or how about, Brandon, how about we just don't put it out at all?
37:35Why, why, why, why are we putting it out there if we're using it as a, as a shock campaign to say, hey, this is what's happening in our beautiful country and we're now trying to find a way to stop the killings, stop the crime.
37:51Then that's different.
37:52We're sensitizing the public to know what we want to stop.
37:56But what we're doing instead is we're, we're painting up, we're finding a way to put, well, like you, like you quite, I don't know how to speak to, or further communicate with a person who say you want to put flowers on ****.
38:10Because if you, if you find that that is something good and you okay with that about us putting it out there without looking at it as a means to, to, to, to stop it, but as a means to continue to, to watch it, well, what we'll do?
38:24Yeah, I agree with you.
38:25Um, I think that we should feel disgusted.
38:28You know, we should feel the shock factor.
38:30The words should be there.
38:31We should be, because it has to affect our internal self.
38:35It has to, it should, so that we act accordingly.
38:38We should not feel comfortable, uh, just being able to say, okay, unalive is okay.
38:43I understand the trauma response, I understand, not getting flagged on, on social media.
38:47But the reality is that somebody just died.
38:50Somebody was killed.
38:51Somebody was, there's a, there's a level to that, that is a great deal of importance and should be of a great deal of importance to you, even in your own spirituality.
39:01Because the truth is that if I make it comfortable, I say to myself that, all right, everything is as comfortable.
39:07And let's go, let me go around, go about my day and be normal.
39:10No, I can't be normal.
39:11Your spirituality should dictate.
39:12You should not be normal about this.
39:14You should feel, your moral compass should make you feel bad about it.
39:18Young men running in the area and you see them running with guns.
39:21You know their mothers, you know their uncles, you know people in the fire, you're seeing them.
39:24Don't say, yeah, that is, that is, you tell them they're just playing with toys.
39:28They're playing with toys, it's guns.
39:29It's real guns that could kill people.
39:31There's a real problem and we need to feel like there is a problem or else we'll just leave it to run amok.
39:37But the reality is we don't.
39:40So we're here now.
39:41We're here now.
39:43So we're here.
39:43And that's a good thing.
39:44How do we need to change?
39:45Right.
39:46We are here now, but we don't want to continue being here.
39:49We don't want to make it worse.
39:50You know, Oprah Winfrey said, you know, don't wait for another 20 years to decide what you wanted to do 20 years ago.
39:56Correct.
39:56You understand?
39:57If you realize something is here now and you don't want to, you have to start with your first step.
40:02So the way to change is first acknowledging that change needs to be had.
40:07Correct.
40:08So Niall said, put in the videos out and tell me if I heard it incorrectly.
40:14When you have the videos out of the killing, right, that could actually lead you to spirituality because I agree with Robert, because we need to be sensitized.
40:24Even one of the previous episodes, when you were talking about fighting in school, some people said, well, I think you said it, it had more fighting in school and we disagreed.
40:32It had the same amount of fighting, but just now we could see it.
40:35So the truth is being revealed.
40:38And this is something I hold to.
40:39This is part of my principle is that the truth is never harsh.
40:44What is harsh is a lie.
40:46So if the truth is people dying, people getting killed, the moderate is what it is.
40:51Die the truth, you know.
40:53So saying whether you're killed, you're unalive, your spirit going up in the air, however you want to describe it, it doesn't take away from the truth of it.
41:01And I think that's a way even for us to find out spirituality because you see like how Niall, you have the stance now, but I don't want to see it.
41:09If you didn't see it, you would not find yourself.
41:11If it wasn't out there, you would not have had the opportunity to find it.
41:15And sometimes people think the spirituality thing is roses and flowers and marshmallows and things.
41:20Spirituality sometimes is a gritty thing because you have to go through the trial and say about being morally challenged.
41:27Jesus finding spirituality in the desert.
41:29Jonah finding spirituality in the whale.
41:31Joseph finding spirituality when he tried to kill him.
41:36If you understand what I'm saying now.
41:37It's not a roses and a real nice thing.
41:41Spirituality is, and as a man, challenging the norms of society.
41:47Challenging what you internally, because we do have it and I agree with you, we internally know what is right.
41:53Or let's say it is feel funny, even though all the elders tell you do this.
41:58You always say something about this never really sit well with me.
42:02Correct.
42:02Right?
42:03And it's having the courage to stand up for that, whatever that is.
42:07So even if you grew up in a community where they say killing is part of life, you know, you got to kill these people and kill.
42:13Even in the act of doing it, and that's why I say sometimes you have to be down in the ditches to find the spirituality.
42:18Because that same person I said was a contract killer, he, that's how he found it.
42:22If he wasn't in it, he would not have found himself.
42:25Well, I can't say that.
42:26I don't know his life path, but that's how he found himself, being in the grit.
42:30So all of us, and especially as men, we shouldn't try to avoid, we shouldn't try to euphemize the reality of things.
42:39We have to go down in the dirt, and that's why I think God put us as man, right?
42:43Adam had to work before even Eve come.
42:45Adam had to go in the garden and work.
42:48You go in the grit, find yourself, and have the courage now for whatever you find to stand up on it.
42:55You know, they say, you know, a rose by any other name is still a rose.
42:59You know, and you hear these things, so unalive, dead, killed, all the same thing.
43:04And all we're doing is buttering it up by doing that.
43:07And persons who want to put that out there and to get the likes and turn it into something different
43:14is finding a way to circumnavigate the systems and the protocols and the securities in place
43:19of people who are looking at the moral fiber of society and trying to put a stop to that.
43:26And, you know, you always hear these things, you know, follow your heart, trust your gut, trust your instinct.
43:32You know, those are the things that we're talking about where we know what is right and what is wrong.
43:38And the more we become creative, the creativity to me is being used in the wrong way.
43:43I, back in my day, you know, you'd look at a horror, you know, the Blair Witch Project and things like that,
43:49filmed on one camera on a camcorder and you're going through, and you were scared based on that.
43:54Now, for someone who I thought I could never watch horrors, I can watch a horror movie now
43:59because it's done so creatively in terms of the cinematography and things like that.
44:04It's not even, for the most part, it's not even scary because it's buttered up.
44:10It's done in a particular way that now still allows me now to consume something,
44:15still taking the negative message, but in a way that I'm now comfortable with.
44:21And that is what's happening.
44:22You are now taking, and not to harp on the word on a life,
44:27but you're taking a scenario that is in no way, shape or form positive, and now it's okay.
44:33In my comfort zone, you put it in my comfort zone, so it's okay for me now to look at that
44:38and be part of that or share that or tell somebody else.
44:41Because we're not sharing it to somebody else to say,
44:43hey, fellas, we ought to do something about this, you know.
44:45We're sharing it to say, hey, you see what happened there.
44:48Let's be honest.
44:51And you know what, I really appreciate what you're saying
44:54because it goes deeper than just what we experience on the external,
44:58for our sensitization on the external of it.
45:01But it's also a deep dive in ourself, as Johansson was saying.
45:04You know, we have to be willing to look at the ugly in us, you know.
45:08That spiritual journey has to be looking at the dirt here and saying,
45:14yo, this is ugly, and maybe I need to fix it.
45:18And I think weak is easier for us as well.
45:20It's easy for us to examine, you know, all of the ills around us in our community.
45:24But when it has to really stand up and watch yourself,
45:26look at yourself and say, yeah, here's what.
45:28I have to do a deep dive in digging up the dirt here.
45:31The spiritual journey is one of digging up that dirt internally too.
45:35Correct.
45:36Because it makes me better.
45:37So I have to go now and look at that dirt and realize I can't call it nice.
45:40I can't say, let me just put a little rose in it
45:42because we get accustomed to the light culture.
45:44Let's make a positive way to call my wrong desires good
45:48so that I don't feel there's a bad or anything about it.
45:52I just want to feel good about everything
45:54because everybody is telling me, don't worry, feel good.
45:57Like everything, love everything.
45:59But no, I need to watch myself, watch my issues, watch internally
46:02and say, yo, this is ugly.
46:04I need to not cover it up.
46:06I need to work on this.
46:07I need to dig out this dirt.
46:08I need to fix it.
46:09That is my journey of spirituality as a man.
46:12And in that, I become better.
46:14And my leadership as a man helps my family, helps my community,
46:18because now we get to start doing that deep dive internally.
46:22Yeah.
46:22And, you know, guys, you know, we only have a couple minutes here
46:26before we have to wrap, before we get into our closing thoughts.
46:29You know, we spoke a lot based on the topic about spirituality in men,
46:35but let's take the men a step further and say spirituality in man,
46:40man being both male and female, you know,
46:44because a lot of times your partner influences you.
46:49And, you know, in that community, your mother is a huge pillar for a man.
46:58And, therefore, the influence comes from there.
47:00So, if we could talk, you know, a bit about the necessity for spirituality in man.
47:07Yeah.
47:08I would say for both man and woman, following, having a moral code
47:16and being honest about what you're following.
47:19And here we're going with the honest because,
47:22I'm going back to go forward real quickly.
47:24Now, they said, spirituality is sometimes something we can't measure, right?
47:28And I would say, for me, how I found my spirituality is measuring.
47:32What I measured was, one, if I don't go to this Sunday, let me see what will happen, right?
47:38If I don't pray, let me see what will happen.
47:40If I do this, let me see what will happen.
47:42And then what it reached to was, you know, that voice, right?
47:46Everybody have the voice.
47:47So, you're going to call it the Holy Spirit.
47:48You're going to call it the universe.
47:49You're going to call it Allah, Buddha, whatever.
47:51You're going to call it.
47:52I tested that voice.
47:53I said, I'm going to listen to that voice for one month.
47:56Whatever it tells me.
47:56If it roll on Frederick Street, I roll in on Frederick Street.
47:58Wherever it is, I said, I'm going to follow that voice.
48:00And after the first week following that, my entire life changed for the better.
48:04It was like, you know, all things were too good to be true.
48:07It was like, just like a movie.
48:10And I say that because I tested.
48:12Now, people listening and viewing, you all could have your own test.
48:16But testing it's important because that's how you know whether something's true or not,
48:20whether you're believing in it.
48:21And we all have that voice because when you don't follow the voice, you know what we do?
48:25We say, I had a mind, you know.
48:27Something tell me to X, Y, Z.
48:29I wish I'd follow my...
48:31Where you want to call it?
48:32The gut.
48:32Whatever you want to call it.
48:34Right?
48:35And I'm saying it have a measure because if the Creator, however we define it,
48:41imbues with His Spirit.
48:43And I'm saying that because I grew up reading the Bible.
48:46I'm saying that because I grew up reading the Bible.
48:48Give us, give you essence, however you want to do.
48:51We have an internal moral clock.
48:53But the funny thing is everybody's morals are not exactly the same.
48:57Definitely.
48:57So as a man, for me, I have to have the courage to be able to follow your morality.
49:03Because, and I believe, somebody tell me, so what, everybody could just do whatever they want.
49:07I say no.
49:08And I don't think it would lead to chaos, you know, to be honest.
49:11But we follow, as a man, to find his spirituality, be honest about what you're feeling.
49:17Right?
49:17And most times, that first inclination is the right inclination.
49:23And we could test it and see, and I challenge people to test it.
49:25Because even if you look in the Bible, God talk first, and then the devil come after them.
49:31Even if you look on TV when they have the two little people there, most times, it's a good person to talk first,
49:35and then the bad person come after.
49:38Because I believe that divine, I'm using that word loosely, divine inspiration is what we get first.
49:44And as men, we get it first, even if we go from a biblical perspective, man, God, wife, family.
49:52Man, God give us to us directly, without a filter.
49:55But from the time we start to think and question and think, that's where we fall into difficulty.
50:00So, as a man, going along the journey, being in the Great and the Dirties, where you know yourself,
50:05and you can be able to find your spirituality there.
50:07And I feel that's my closing too, so we can just go around.
50:09I'm glad you got that feeling.
50:10Right.
50:12Yeah, man.
50:14Yeah, man.
50:14Well, my closing thoughts on the topic is, I am a firm believer of spirituality, and even religion.
50:22I think that, but with a logical mind, right, as in going to it.
50:28And I love the fact that you said measurement, and I'm actually going to try that, right?
50:31Because for me now, logically speaking, I can be like, okay, how can I apply these things that I've had in my mind to my everyday life, right?
50:39So, I really love that.
50:41So, I feel that, you know, religion is very important.
50:45Spirituality is very important.
50:46And a pairing between a man and a woman need to have spirituality in it to exist, because, you know, for me, a woman is the most important thing in a man's life, you know, after his beliefs, right?
50:57And, yeah, that's it.
51:00I'll take it.
51:00I'll leave it here.
51:01Yeah, yeah.
51:01I want to echo the same thing.
51:03Listen, find purpose by finding God, you know?
51:06There's a lot that you don't know about the life that you live, and there's somebody who knows it.
51:11That's just the truth.
51:12And I believe that as a man, you, as you go through life, and you keep on going through this spiritual journey of digging up the dirt, and looking at, you know, whatever the Creator is leading you to do, you're going to get guided in the right side, the right light, and I believe that you'll be a better contributor to the society that you live in.
51:30Try to be a leader, and follow a leader, and I think that having a spiritual source, having a God that created you, be a leader, and you follow that, learn from a leader.
51:39Let that be mentorship on itself, and try to be a leader in this space, your community, your home, your relationships, your business.
51:46Let that be the guide to your life.
51:49And, yeah, if you're a spiritual person or a spiritual leader, then you're definitely going to want to have spiritual company.
51:54So I pray that you'll find, if you're in your spouse, your relationships, your family, that the direction everybody would be going is understanding that we need spirituality in our lives.
52:04At least that's my takeaway.
52:05That's my give to you guys, where that's concerned.
52:07You, you know, you always know what's the right thing to do.
52:12You know, it's in your gut, it's in your heart, it's your instinct.
52:15You know that moral compass.
52:17So when you know the right thing to do, then do the right thing.
52:21Johansi, Brandon, Niall, it's always a pleasure.
52:30God is the boss.
52:31Namaste.
52:32The divine in us recognize the divine in you.
52:35Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.