Frank Islam speaks with Robinder Sachdev, Director, India Affairs, US India Political Action Committee USINPAC | Washington Calling
Category
đź—ž
NewsTranscript
00:00This is Frank Islam, Chairman and CEO of FY Investment Group and your host, The Washington
00:21Calling, where we interview leading voices from business, from politics, and journalists
00:26that impact you, the viewer. Today, we are fortunate enough to have a distinguished guest
00:31and his name is Mr. Rabindranath Sachdeva. He is the Director of India Affairs at USINPAC.
00:38He is a recognized expert in foreign affairs and economic diplomacy. He hosts a weekly
00:43show on foreign affairs on a regional TV channel in India. He is the President of Image India,
00:52an independent think tank that extensively works with the Indian diaspora. Thank you,
00:56Mr. Sachdeva, for coming to our show and welcome to our show.
01:02Welcome to our show.
01:03Thank you so much, Mr. Islam. A pleasure to be with you, an honor to be with you. You
01:08are a very well-known, you know, person who articulates and explores and even actively
01:15leads on matters that you talk about. So, it's a pleasure to be with you, sir.
01:20Thank you very much. You have lived and worked in the United States and now heading a think
01:25tank in India. Please tell us briefly about Image India Institute and its activities.
01:31As I understand, it's an independent think tank. Tell us a little bit about it.
01:36Yeah, absolutely. We are independent, non-partisan overall, absolutely. The spelling of the think
01:44tank, the name, if you read it, either it can be pronounced as Image India or Imagine India.
01:51So, when I started the idea of this think tank, actually, I was in Washington DC,
01:56those years doing other things, my work, business and other participation in public,
02:01you know, affairs a little bit.
02:03When were you in Washington DC?
02:06I was in DC from 96 till 2003.
02:10Okay. At that time, I was not into the columns writing as well as I own a company.
02:21I think QSS. Yes, yes, yes. Sure. So, thank you. So, yeah. So, when I moved back to India,
02:31I mean, I had to continue, of course, work. I had a telecom startup, which I sold off in the
02:37northern Virginia area. So, when I moved back to India, I thought of having a think tank,
02:43which is working towards promoting the image of India. I studied communications at American
02:48University, international affairs. And my thesis was that my idea is that your image depends upon
02:55your imagination. So, the more and the more substantive your imagination, I would think the
03:02image is a derivative of your imagination. So, I set up this think tank with an approach to promote
03:09the imagination, let's say, of wherever I can reach folks in India and among the diaspora,
03:17in order to, you know, more visibly bring the image of India. So, that's the naming and mission,
03:23promoting the imagination of India and the diaspora. What we do, we run in three areas,
03:29I think one is foreign affairs analysis and comment and participation, including some campaigns
03:37between US, India and the US. Then secondly, we run leadership training programs for training
03:43leaders, especially in areas of cross cultural communication, I studied cross cultural
03:49communication, so it fit in. And one can see a lot of things in this world, which are impacted
03:56and we're communicating across cultures is the core. So, one is foreign affairs, geopolitics,
04:02another is, you know, leadership training with a huge focus on cross cultural focus and cross
04:07cultural understanding. And third is we do research, industry research, be it energy,
04:12nuclear energy, electricity, and, you know, such sectors. So, these are broadly what we do.
04:20You're uniquely positioned.
04:23Oh, thank you. Yes, perhaps. And I consciously, partly by design, definitely yes, but a lot also
04:31by chance. How big is your organization, imagine? My organization, my team is about
04:39right now only four people. We've had at times people in the range of 10 to 12. But what we have
04:45is a roster of experts, because you know, the projects like we work a lot on nuclear energy.
04:50And right now we're working on hydrogen, green hydrogen for the government of Japan.
04:54So, then we take on experts, because I cannot have on role experts all the time, you know,
05:01depending upon where it comes and these experts are expensive. So, we are, I mean, you can say
05:08a network organization in that sense. And we've got colleagues who partner with us across the
05:13world also. Yeah. So, tell me, how do you get, how do you get a subsidy? Do you get money from
05:20India or from the government? No. We absolutely do not get any money. And we do not also pitch
05:29for any money from the government of India. And my basic element in that is that, you know,
05:35I have been an entrepreneur in my one previous life, as I mentioned, I had a startup, I have
05:41an engineering background and software background in India, and then in the US.
05:46So, I've been an entrepreneur. So, in that sense, my idea is that, you know, you eat what you kill,
05:51you hunt and kill. And so never, we work closely with the governments without doubt,
05:59be it India, actually in other countries also. Though for some consulting, yes, we do get in all
06:07disclaimer, like the government of Japan, we are the advisors on nuclear energy in India.
06:11Oh, yes, yes, yes.
06:12So, those are different things. But otherwise, we do not, you know, for any…
06:17That's wonderful. That's the reason you are non-partition.
06:21Yes, sir. Absolutely.
06:23We have tracked US-India relations for a long time and also closely monitor the achievements
06:27of Indian American community, which is so much focused now, because of the election
06:34in the United States with Kamala Harris. And she's a dear friend, by the way. I'm sure you know that.
06:40Wonderful to know that. Okay, I'll talk about that later.
06:45Being the Democratic Party nominee for the president. Tell me a little bit about that.
06:50Do you think US-India relationship is based on shared values, shared interest,
06:56and also a commitment to democracy?
07:01That's a great question, Frank, you know, and the way you put it, I think, I'll think about it.
07:07The narrative is that, yes, our relationship is based on shared values and democracy and interest,
07:15right? That is the narrative to which I think all of us agree and think by. But I would actually
07:22beg to disagree on that. Well, our Russian relationship with India, that's a sore point
07:28for us. No, sure. Yeah, I'll come to that in a moment. That's why I'm saying that our relationship
07:33with the US is not necessarily based, is not based on shared values 100% mapped.
07:43It's, we do not have a 100% mapping of shared values. The way we see some things in India,
07:50or it is seen is different at times than what the America and Americans and by Americans,
07:56I mean, the US administration and the US Congress, the two, the executive branch and the
08:01legislative, the way they look at India. So, the narrative is that, yes, we have the same shared
08:06values, love of freedom of speech and, you know, free markets and such and liberal societies.
08:17But there are some values, I think, where we do differ
08:20between the US and India. Other than the interests, we differ in some interests also.
08:28So, you don't see eye to eye on several points, such as military, such as education and such as
08:39several things that you do not see eye to eye. Counter-terrorism is another one,
08:42and nuclear power. So, you don't see eye to eye with the United States.
08:46I think in India, the Indian thinking, perhaps, if I were to say, I'm not saying I, but let's say,
08:52if I could be a sounding board via media, is that the US does not understand India. That is one.
09:00We don't understand a lot of countries. We don't understand a lot of Middle Eastern
09:03country either. And we just go bomb. Actually, the same thing is, even India does not
09:08understand America. That is one.
09:11So, that is there. But the bigger one is that we do not see eye to eye in the emerging global order.
09:19That is true.
09:21And that's something I can a little bit expand. But the point is that the way this world is
09:29developing now, it is said it's a new world. And it's a new world. And it's a new world.
09:35The point is that the way this world is developing now, it is said it's a new world order,
09:43which is coming there. Now, India does not see eye to eye to that.
09:47And my sense is that, if I were to take a half a minute, 20 seconds, I think that it's not a
09:53new world order, which is coming up. I define it and I have a model, sir.
10:00What is that?
10:02It is a matrix.
10:03Oh, that's a pretty cool. I love it.
10:05It's a matrix.
10:07Oh, okay.
10:09The world of today, from how I see, is becoming a matrix. It's in flux, partnerships,
10:16closer, stronger, supply chains, self-interest. Everybody is becoming very, very clear,
10:22be it the smallest of the countries, pardon, or the largest. So, the world is now a matrix
10:29under construction. And in this matrix, which is under construction,
10:33I think that India does not see eye to eye with America.
10:38And do you think that India has a freedom of press?
10:44India has the freedom of press. Absolutely, yes. But yes, there are challenges,
10:49there are instances with respect to media, which are brought out. India, I mean,
10:56in one way we can say, is a very argumentative society, nation. But yes,
11:03and I think those same challenges extend across our media also.
11:10We have our own problem with Trump. He's a racist son of a bitch. Excuse me saying so,
11:18I shouldn't be saying so, because he's a presidential candidate for the Republican
11:21Party. You probably know that I've written a lot of columns on Trump, lots and lots of columns,
11:26and I write it for the medium. But let me change the conversation. What makes Indian Americans so
11:32special? What's the reason for the growing profile, importance, and influence in spite
11:37of their relatively small numbers compared to many other communities? There could be a wider
11:41resource, as a matter of fact, in the philanthropy, in innovation, in creating jobs, and so on,
11:50so forth. So, why is that? You know, I put Indian diaspora all the time. So, that's the reason I
11:57asked. You know, the other day, Times of India interviewed me. In fact, yesterday, I think in
12:01tomorrow's paper, it will be there. They're doing a story exactly to the question you asked.
12:06And they asked me that what is the contribution of the Indian American diaspora
12:11to the economy of America? That is true. I thought about it, and I came up with a number.
12:17I first looked at, I'll share with you, sir, my approach. I first looked at
12:22the Indian American CEOs of the top 500 fortune companies, right? There are about nine Indian
12:30American CEOs in the top 500. Then I looked at when they assumed office, what was the market value of
12:38the companies? And what is the market value now? So, that gives me a metric to say that an Indian
12:44American CEO of a Microsoft or a Google has added this much economic value to the American
12:51economy. And you know, the number I came up with for these nine, the valuation of Microsoft when
12:59Nadella came to where it is when Sundar Pichai came and, you know, the other eight, nine of
13:05FedEx and all, it's approximately $800 billion. I mean, so I can quantify it, saying that $1
13:13trillion approximately is the economic value added by Indian American CEOs. Sure, we are taking
13:20that. That's one. The other metric… My question to you, we give an opportunity, like they have
13:25given me the opportunity to basically be the shining city upon a hill and all the eyes are
13:32upon us. Because the fact that we're not only Indian American, we don't discriminate people
13:37because of the color, creed, religion, race, background and belief. That's something that
13:41India can learn from this. Oh, absolutely. Totally. I mean, absolutely, totally. But here I
13:47hark to the example of America, where each state of the union address by the President ends with
13:53saying that, may the God bless us and make us a more perfect union. That is the spirit of America.
14:00India, all nations we have our, you know, wards and these things. India needs to, all countries
14:06need to, I think, imbibe that spirit that sure, wherever we are, we need to be a more better,
14:13more perfect union. But India doesn't do that, does not give opportunity to the people
14:20who are in lower caste, who are Muslims or minorities or Christians.
14:25India is doing that. But yes, again, that's the point now. India is imperfect. The way let's say
14:31the US is imperfect. India is imperfect. India is moving towards perfection, should move towards
14:37perfection. But yes, I absolutely agree. And to your point that there are various, you know,
14:44dark spots, dark spots in our, in our nation's, you know, progress, but it has to be improved.
14:53So, sorry. That's okay. Let me, let me shift my gear and ask you another question.
15:02You have worked in public and economic diplomacy and even organized an India
15:07investment summit in London. What is the level of foreign direct investment in India,
15:12especially from the United States? And what are the hurdles to investment? They say a lot of
15:16paperwork, corruption. The people said, people told me that, and also there's a lower interest,
15:23lower rate of return. Do you agree with me? Yes, sir. Coming to the second point. Yeah. I mean,
15:31corruption, delays, settlement of contracts, the judicial system, you know, if you go into,
15:41if there is a dispute, it can take ages and ages and not be solved. And, you know,
15:47better not get into a dispute, go for arbitration, figure it out. Anyway, so contract. And then,
15:53yeah, essentially, yeah. These areas, bureaucracy, red tape, typically said,
16:00corruption. Yes. Intellectual property. A lot of paperwork. And also, if you're a foreigner,
16:07you cannot buy property in India. On the other hand, you can buy property in the United States.
16:12Sure. I mean, see, some things like that can still be understood. You know, those can be a
16:16sovereign decision. I will not, you know, let foreigners buy land in my country. Fair enough.
16:21The other party learns to live with it. But there are other, you know, constraints or other
16:29factors which become hurdles in this process of, you know, in fact, I'm reminded, you know,
16:38the chairman of Microsoft in India, Ravi Venkatesan, I think his name was, a good friend of
16:43mine, he wrote a book. And he says that for a foreign company, and I teach this in my leadership
16:51programs, for a foreign company, if you can succeed in India, you can succeed anywhere in the world.
16:58And his point was that China is a different example. You know, China is communism, boom,
17:04done. You know, the mayor signs up with you overnight, things done. But India is the,
17:09is, you know, everything, corruption, media delays, red tape, etc, etc. So the world,
17:15majority of the world is like India. So if you can do well in India, you will win a gold medal
17:25anywhere in the world. I'm not saying this, Ravi is saying in his book.
17:31Let me also ask you, you have taught at American University, as you mentioned,
17:37when we started the conversation, and you have worked in the areas of cross communication.
17:42How do you see the level of the culture exchanges between the United States,
17:46India, especially at the university level?
17:50Three points. Yeah, I mean, I studied at American University,
17:53communal culture, I studied my business, I taught there also as an adjunct. And that has shaped,
18:00yeah, as an adjunct professor. And really, that has, if not changed, it has defined my life. And
18:08I understand you were on the board of American University. Yes, I was. I would congratulate you,
18:12it would be lovely to catch up with you offline also. So that change and the professors,
18:17they changed my life. I'll be very honest, my view of the world. That's one.
18:21And how long were you a professor at American University?
18:25I was about two years. An adjunct faculty, I'm repeating, an adjunct. And then I came back to
18:33India after that. So I did my studies, I was doing my business, my job.
18:38What made you go back to India? Everybody wants to stay here.
18:42A couple of things, maybe, you know, I had a wireless
18:45startup, which I had co-founded. And we were doing good and all the telecom bubble hit.
18:52So I sold my shares, whatever were, and made some little money to be a little flexible in line.
18:59And in the meanwhile, I had joined up with a team of folks in Washington DC area to set up a US
19:08India Political Action Committee, Sanjay Puri, maybe you would know. I know Sanjay for many,
19:13many years. He used to have an IT company himself.
19:16Yeah, Optimos. Then Vikram Chauhan. So these guys said,
19:22Vik is a dear, dear friend of mine, brother of mine. So they said, okay, let's set up a, you know,
19:28we take, we give donations, but we only take pictures. Let's set up a PAC. And this is the
19:33meaning of a PAC. I discovered the meaning of a PAC then. Anyway, so that was that. So when I sold
19:38off my company, my mother had to have a knee replacement surgery and all. I had flexible time,
19:44some little money. I came back to India. I stayed on India. I had not made up a firm mind that I
19:50will continue in the US. Some people do that, I did not. Well, now, that was the personal reason
19:57that you went back to India because of your brother. My mother, my mother. Your mother also?
20:03My mom, she had to have a, you know, knee replacement. She had arthritis.
20:07Okay. I have arthritis myself. And I got several shots on my, on my toe, on the right hand side.
20:17Bless you and hope, well, aging, the biology of the body.
20:21So that is, that's a good way to put it.
20:24It's a journey and God blesses us whichever way. And who knows what his meaning is? We know nothing,
20:32you know, we'll see. I mean, each our lives. Yeah. I want to go, I want to talk to you about,
20:38you have been tech based. You mentioned to us the consulting background, especially in the IT area.
20:44How do you see India riding in, in that AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI,
20:54artificial intelligence wave in the what area US India can collaborate?
21:00Only AI or bigger, bigger picture, bigger. What areas?
21:06Sure. In the bigger, I will pick one specific one, but talking of AI and all, sure, definitely. You
21:12see, I mean, India, we have talent, we have people, we have a demographic dividend, which
21:17can also be a question, you have a talent, you have a talent. But it can be a problem also down
21:23the line, whatever. So there is huge synergy. And also, you know, the synergy is, I think,
21:31enhanced by linkages between people like you, Indians of Indian origin, Indian Americans,
21:40bridging between the US and India, Silicon Valley, tech, etc. The businesses between US and India,
21:48they've played a key role. And if I could take just 10 seconds to clarify what you would know,
21:54remember Y2K? Yeah, I know that. Okay. Now, India's entire IT industry, I would say,
22:03has stood up only because of Y2K. Because those years, 1999, 2000, there was a paranoia that you
22:11know, all companies will stop, airlines will go berserk, banks will go kooky. Y2K, that's when the
22:19first wave started where Indian American tech people, tech companies, even SME entrepreneurs,
22:26started up the bridge between Bangalore back end, and America. That's how it started, I would say,
22:33you know, the Wipros and Infosys and all in those years. Once that worked out, okay,
22:38that opened up the bridge for the next, you know, stage of be it business process outsourcing,
22:46or back end software, the Y2K was the trigger, I think, and which made that. So coming back,
22:54US innovation. So the Indian American community, and entrepreneurs are an absolute bridge,
23:01and a pivotal part of this US India relationship journey, I would feel on the economy side.
23:07So therefore, AI trends happening there are happening, you may be having maybe invested,
23:12now you may not be, you know, an entrepreneur, you may be an investor now, and others are
23:18in tech companies, so that AI will go on. The bigger other game, which I see, so AI will go on
23:24should do well, huge scope, I would say, green energy, green energy, green tech, etc. These are
23:31the sunrise sectors. The other, if you pardon me, can I use and you can clip it? Yeah.
23:38Yeah, sure. Take your time.
23:40Oh, thanks. Yeah.
23:42You're doing fantastic. Thank you.
23:44Sure. Well, thank you. You know, we've turned off the fan because that could disturb the speed,
23:49but I have AC on in the room.
23:51So you do not have air conditioning at home?
23:53No, I have air conditioning. But what happens Delhi is so moist and humid.
23:58Yeah, it's a 100 degree here, sir.
24:02So you need a combination of the AC and the fan.
24:06In order for you to get it to get a more cooler air.
24:09Sure. Yeah. So, okay, so AI, tech, green energy, but one area I see, actually two,
24:20hugely and which the US needs right now, and the US is desperate, I would say not only the US,
24:26Europe is defence. And I'll put it this way. Yeah. The US, over the past many years,
24:37has kind of degraded its military production complex. After the Cold War, they never thought
24:45there'll be a bigger war, etc. They were making some, the Lockheed Martins were not getting new,
24:50you know, orders from Pentagon or whatever. So they shut down their production lines.
24:56Since the Ukraine war, that has become a huge challenge. Now the 155 mm shells,
25:03something as simple as 155 mm artillery shells, the US is ramping up its production, it cannot
25:10match up. The NATO countries are ramping up, they cannot match up. The Javelins.
25:18Match up against Russia and China?
25:21Match up for the need which Ukraine needs. They have been giving from their stockpiles.
25:30Okay, they have been reducing their own inventory, they need to give more to Ukraine,
25:35and they need to restock their inventory. Plus, they have to rearm or beef up their presence in
25:43the Asia Pacific and Guam and everywhere else. And plus, Taiwan wants more, plus Israel needs more.
25:52So, the US... Israel always needs more.
25:58So, they do not have the production facilities. So therefore, one thing which can work in a big
26:04way, if these, you know, India can be the back end factory of defense production for the United
26:11States. Like China was the back end consumer factory for the last 30 odd years, manufacturing,
26:18you know, shoes, slippers, T-shirts and all. America needs a factory for defense. India can
26:26be that factory at a lower cost structure. That in a big sense, I think, is... but there are
26:32challenges to that, you know, technology transfer and even more trust kind of issues. But that is the
26:40big one. And where America is in pain, America needs that.
26:44Yeah, you're right, you're right.
26:47That could be, yeah.
26:49So, but there's a tension between Russia and the United States in terms of... with the Putin and
26:55also the Ukraine war. They're not doing anything to defend India, as I see it.
27:03See, with respect to Russia, India has...