With the 2024 NBA draft and Las Vegas Summer League firmly behind us, fans of the Boston Celtics and the sport of basketball more generally have been laser-focused on the 2024 Paris Olympics and Boston's players on Team USA. And with that focus has come some concerning narratives, some of which have substance to them -- and others less so.
To get into the teeth of the narratives about Jayson Tatum, Jrue Holiday, and Derrick White on Team USA (and how some of those narratives point to deeper, long-term concerns about the future of the US National Team), how much it matters, and what could be different, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with SB Nation's Noa Dalzell.
We touch on all things Olympics from 3 x 3 basketball, the impact of the WNBA's popularity on women's coverage, and Steve Kerr's coaching to weird Celtics narratives, and get caught up on the news to boot.
Tune in to scratch your summer doldrums Celtics itch, and stay for the details on Noa's new pod on the CLNS Media network, "You Got Boston."
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CLNS Media is Powered by:
Prize Picks - PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100!
Gametime - https://gametime.co
Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.
To get into the teeth of the narratives about Jayson Tatum, Jrue Holiday, and Derrick White on Team USA (and how some of those narratives point to deeper, long-term concerns about the future of the US National Team), how much it matters, and what could be different, the hosts of the CLNS Media "Celtics Lab" podcast linked up with SB Nation's Noa Dalzell.
We touch on all things Olympics from 3 x 3 basketball, the impact of the WNBA's popularity on women's coverage, and Steve Kerr's coaching to weird Celtics narratives, and get caught up on the news to boot.
Tune in to scratch your summer doldrums Celtics itch, and stay for the details on Noa's new pod on the CLNS Media network, "You Got Boston."
************************************************
CLNS Media is Powered by:
Prize Picks - PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100!
Gametime - https://gametime.co
Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.
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SportsTranscript
00:00All right, everyone. Welcome back to another edition of the Celtics Lab podcast. I'm your
00:12guest host today, Alex Goldberg. Cam is on vacation, and so I am stepping up from my
00:18usual commentator role to take over hosting duties. And with us is, as always, first off,
00:24Justin Quinn and special guest Noah Dalsal of SB Nation and the You Got Boston pod. Noah,
00:31how are you doing on this fine August morning?
00:35I'm doing great. Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
00:37Of course. Happy to have you. It's been a banner month for Noah, who is taking on a
00:42bunch of interesting Celtics-related projects that we are going to get into in a little
00:46bit. JQ, what's going on with you?
00:49I just came back from your neck of the woods. We're recording pretty early in the day, and
00:54so that is a boon for me because I haven't adjusted back to Mexico City time yet, so
00:58I'm not completely blasted for being up this early. But yeah, besides that, pretty good.
01:04Nice. Good stuff. Well, I'm doing all right after being on hold with a pet insurance company
01:08for a full hour just now. Lovely stuff. Joy of joys. Let's get right into it. This episode
01:14of the Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by PrizePix, the exclusive fantasy basketball
01:18partner of the CLNS Media Network. Celtics Lab is also brought to you by GameTime Tickets.
01:23Last minute tickets, lowest price, guaranteed. And if you enjoy this pod, maybe you should
01:29check out the How About Them Celtics and the First to the Floor podcast, as well as the
01:32many other New England sports podcasts available to you on the CLNS Media Network.
01:37This episode, we're going to talk about a few different things. We're going to talk
01:40about some two-way deals. We're going to talk about the Olympics. We're going to talk about
01:45a couple of other small news items. And we're mostly going to give Noah a chance to plug
01:51your new podcast. Noah, what's that podcast called again?
01:54You Got Boston. Yeah, it just started last week on CLNS and also on my YouTube channel,
01:59which is You Got Boston Podcast. Fabulous. Well, always happy to welcome another
02:04pod to the CLNS fam and happy to have another Celtics pod in ecosystem. Good stuff. Anyway,
02:12speaking of two ways, a couple of newsworthy items. Anton Watson, Celtics' second-round
02:18pick, signs a two-way deal with the Boston Celtics, joining Drew Peterson and J.D. Davison
02:23for three of our two-way deals. Noah, we'll swing it to you first. Obviously, we saw a
02:29little bit of Anton in summer league. We've seen some college stuff. What is Anton Watson
02:34potentially going to be bringing to the table for the Seas this year, either in Maine or
02:39potentially on the roster with this two-way deal? Yeah, I mean, he'll inevitably spend some time in
02:45Maine. Just given the fact that this is a pretty loaded roster, it's going to be hard for anybody
02:49to break into the rotation. And obviously, he's in his first days here as a professional. But I
02:54thought that from the summer league team, he was maybe the most NBA-ready player. And that even
02:59includes Jordan Walsh, who obviously has a year under his belt. But him and Baylor were two of the
03:04older players on the team, despite being the players that were just drafted. But of those two,
03:09obviously, Baylor Shireman was the higher draft pick. Anton Watson seemed more NBA-ready to me,
03:15at least right now. Maybe Baylor has a higher ceiling. But he's a guy that just has a good
03:19feel for the game. He's a good defender. That's kind of his big strength right now. I think summer
03:25league head coach DJ McClay said he's already an NBA-ready defender. So it's more the offensive
03:30game that's a question mark. And I thought offensively, he had a nice-looking shot. He
03:33didn't shoot a whole lot. But if he can showcase that in Maine, that he can consistently hit threes,
03:39or even just mid-range shots as well, he has a place in the NBA long-term.
03:44And so he seemed like a great fit for this organization. And he's somebody that I think
03:49fans will be positively surprised about once they get to see him play a little bit more.
03:53JQ, what do you envision Watson's NBA role looking like? Obviously, he's got some tools.
04:00He's a pretty serious defender. And he's got some bounce and athleticism to his game.
04:05But one of the things that I find is always kind of tricky is taking college prospects and
04:11figuring out what role fits them best in the league. So for you,
04:15what are you seeing as far as roles for Anton Watson?
04:19I think he's somewhere in the mold of a Xavier Tillman-slash-I-hate-the-poor-man-to-Al
04:25Horford thing. That is a similar skill set, being able to pass a little bit,
04:31shoot a little bit, but mostly rebound, defend, that sort of thing. So I don't necessarily think
04:38he's going to have a very big role for a while. And he may never pan out. It's really hard to say
04:43how these things are going to go this early in the process. But the vision there, I think,
04:49is for a rotation 4-5 man that can kind of do a little bit of both, switch a little bit,
04:53shoot a little bit.
04:55Yeah, I think at the end of the day, betting on switchability on defense and athleticism
05:01is kind of typical of Brad Stevens. That's definitely been something that he has done
05:07in the past. And it doesn't always pan out. I mean, frankly, the odds of a second round draft
05:12panning out generally are pretty low. But at the very least, the tools of being able to switch
05:20on defense and just like having some natural speed and athleticism to kind of muck it up
05:25in down low with bigs and get rebounds. And then if the corner three does come along,
05:31obviously that changes a lot. But to me, it's always worth betting on stuff like that,
05:37on athleticism and switchability on defense. And typically, Joe Mizzoula plays guys who can defend
05:44and switch and also shoot. And so if you're banking on maybe the shot comes along with a
05:51little bit of time, then there is a path for Anton Watson. I think, Noah, to your point,
05:56though, it's going to be hard for Anton Watson to get minutes with this team specifically just
06:01because of the rotation and how stacked it is when it's healthy. So I think for people like
06:07myself who are interested in seeing what Anton Watson has to offer, the main thing is the main
06:13thing, so to speak. What is he going to look like in Maine there? Speaking of Maine, Jay Scrubb
06:19heading back to Maine on an Exhibit 10 deal. Obviously, he's got a couple of Maine reps under
06:28his belt already. I don't think he's spent much time with Boston, but at least somewhat intriguing
06:34in Maine. Obviously, former Maine standout Tony Snell was in the news somewhat recently talking
06:41about how he is really still trying to make it back onto an NBA roster. I'm a Tony Snell guy. I
06:47have been on record as a Tony Snell guy. And so I am always hoping that Tony Snell gets another shot
06:52specifically for the 10-year mark that he could then get league health insurance for if he's able
06:58to make that. So shout out to Tony Snell. Please sign him. And let's see. I think that's it as far
07:05as Maine stuff. In terms of the news of former Celtics, Gordon Hayward has retired, presumably
07:13to pursue a full-time League of Legends career. Noah, any thoughts on Gordon Hayward's retirement
07:19and kind of his place in, I don't know, Celtics lore, call it? Yeah, I mean, obviously he didn't
07:27pan out the way that people kind of hoped he would. And everybody's going to automatically
07:31think about the night that he was injured when they think about Gordon Hayward, whether as a
07:35Celtic or not. But I think the thing that's interesting about him is that he actually had
07:38a really good career outside of just his Celtics tenure. And he was a great player. I think he's
07:43one of those guys that's now almost defined by that injury. But maybe as time goes on, people
07:48will kind of zoom out a little bit. But I'm not surprised by it. It did seem like after he got
07:53traded to the Thunder last year and really wasn't in the rotation, it would have taken a lot to find
07:59a role. And I don't know if he was a guy that wanted to be a minimum player that gets no minutes
08:02somewhere. It seemed like based on his comments from last year that that didn't appeal to him as
08:06much as it might to some others. So not a whole lot of thoughts, honestly. But I will say, I think
08:12people may sometimes forget just how great of a player he was prior to the injury. And obviously,
08:17people say he's a big what if with the Celtics. And I think that's a what if, but there are
08:22probably bigger ones in sports. But yeah, certainly, it's just unfortunate whenever a guy
08:27when you think about an injury, when you think about a guy, that's always unfortunate.
08:31JQ, any Gordon Hayward thoughts of the road?
08:35Nothing that hasn't really already been said other than I respect when someone really feels
08:40like it's time to go. He could have, as we've been kind of talking around, stuck around and
08:46took a minimum contract. Maybe even a little bit more than that. But he wouldn't have a very big
08:51role. His body doesn't seem to be, even for him, working very well for him in recent seasons. So
08:59if this is the time that he wants to go out and still kind of feel like he left the game
09:03when he was contributing, at least, then that's totally understandable, in my opinion.
09:09Yeah, I think we're definitely going to see, to your point, Noah, a few Gordon Hayward was a dog
09:14YouTube video compilations coming in soon, particularly from his Utah days where he
09:20was an all-NBA guy in Utah. It's nothing to sniff at. Obviously, I remember exactly where I was
09:26when Gordon Hayward's leg snapped in half and I said repeatedly, it's over, it's over, it's over.
09:31And it was over for that season. But the one bright spot, of course, is that it also forced
09:38Jason Tatum, rookie, into a much bigger role, which, as it turns out, was the Warback moment
09:44in progress that led to the NBA title. So in some ways, I do think as Gordon Hayward's Celtics
09:52tenure, while it was obviously not all that successful for Gordon Hayward specifically,
09:57to some degree, it did help to lay the foundation for the Celtics title run to come. And obviously,
10:04Gordon Hayward was very professional when he was here. He clearly tried very hard to get back into
10:11shape and, you know, like he missed the birth of his child to play a playoff game in the bubble,
10:16even though he was injured. It's not like Gordon Hayward didn't try very hard to win in green.
10:22It's just a mix of unfortunate circumstances. And then, of course, getting a big payday that
10:28Danny Ainge was not willing to foot the bill for. Shout out to Gordon Hayward. At the very least,
10:33one of the all-time great bag getters of the NBA. That dude made some serious, serious change.
10:39So anyway, moving on from Gordon Hayward and from NBA-related news, we got to go abroad here,
10:45and we got to talk about the things that are actually happening in the basketball world right
10:49now, which is the Olympics, all sorts of different Olympic-related events for Team USA and for
10:55international basketball generally. You have the men's and women's five-on-five, the men's and
11:01women's three-on-three. In general, a lot of basketball is being played by a lot of people,
11:06and some interesting things are happening, and we're going to start with that. Team USA is 3-0
11:12in group play. They are the number one seed. Tomorrow, they are going to be playing, I believe,
11:17Brazil in the first quarterfinal game. Let's briefly break down some of these three games
11:24that we saw in the group play. We'll start with the 110-84 win over Nikola Jokic and Serbia.
11:31Noah, anything stand out in this game? Yeah, well, I think the story of that game became
11:37the Jason Tatum DNP, and so I almost feel like people forgot that there was an actual game that
11:42was played and that so many people stood out. I mean, obviously, the big one was Kevin Durant,
11:47who came out after missing weeks of basketball with a calf injury and came back and was just
11:51on fire, but LeBron was great in that game. I think just across the board, everybody was operating at
11:58a high level, to the point where it made it hard to say, Tatum should have played over this guy
12:01because everybody had played really well, but obviously, the story became, was he disrespectful?
12:05Should he have played for a few minutes? That became the narrative, but what stood out to me
12:09was just how loaded this team was and how they defeated, I think, one of the more formidable
12:14teams in the pool, in the field, so that's what stood out. I also felt like Derek White was great,
12:19and now both Derek White and Drew Holiday have really impressed throughout this run, and I felt
12:25like, you know, Derek White in particular, people kind of expected he wasn't going to play. Not only
12:28is he playing, but I would say he's been one of the top seven players on the team as far as doing
12:34kind of all the right things, making an impact, being a connector, getting other guys involved,
12:37so it's been really fun to watch him in particular. Let's stop the action to talk about PrizePix,
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14:09Now back to the show. I want to also briefly shout out, Drew Holiday is an exceptional winning
14:15basketball player. If you want a guy that will just, and I've said this 500 times over the course
14:21of this podcast, but if you want a guy who is totally unselfish, will do everything that you
14:28need somebody to do to get the win, and is confident enough that they can take their own
14:34buckets when they need them, Drew Holiday is just, he really is like a plug and play winner.
14:40It's kind of astonishing to see him do this on just every team that he goes to,
14:45no matter where Drew Holiday is. That team starts winning when Drew Holiday shows up,
14:49and the Olympics are no exception. He is obviously an Olympic vet as well, won gold in, I believe,
14:552016. He's a very, very serious, helpful player and a total no-brainer. And I don't think it's
15:04a coincidence that Steve Kerr has used him in the starting spot in many of these games.
15:11The Celtics then, or the Celtics, three of the Celtics, three Celtics then got a 103-86 win
15:19versus South Sudan. This game, Jason Tatum did play, he had four points and five rebounds.
15:26Derek White, though, was probably the standout Celtic with 10 points and three steals versus
15:32South Sudan. I'll swing it to you again, Noah. What did you see from the South Sudan team,
15:39which is kind of, it's kind of incredible that they're here in the first place. But I'm curious,
15:44what did you see from South Sudan and from the way that they played Team USA,
15:49which was very different, I thought, than Serbia in some respects?
15:53Yeah, definitely. I mean, South Sudan has been so fun to watch. I'm pretty bummed that they
15:56didn't advance to the quarterfinals. I thought they had it a couple of times there and just
16:00weren't able to kind of get across the finish line. But they were just, they just played very,
16:05very just energetic, aggressive, all over rebounds, like they're making guys like Anthony
16:10Davis and, you know, America's best centers, we look like they're struggling to get rebounds.
16:15And so I thought that was, it was just really fun to watch. I think they're going to get a lot
16:18better as a team. And obviously, Derek White, you know, to come in and go three for three from
16:22three in that game. He's the kind of player that can do that. And I think a lot has been made about
16:26Tatum's shooting struggles during this playoff run. But he's just not the kind of guy that's
16:31going to come in and go three for three from the field without having any rhythm without being able
16:35to see some free throws and layups go in. He's just not he's not he's a rhythm shooter. And
16:38Derek White has shown us time and again that he can come in and hit a quick three. And I think
16:43this style of play and these limited touches are benefiting him quite a bit. So that game was almost
16:47like a breakout game for him on the global stages, even though he's had so many of those moments
16:51already this past year. But yeah, South Sudan, really, you have to I think they kind of won
16:56everybody over this this run is just being so fun to watch. And obviously, the story there is super
17:00compelling as well of Luol Deng single handedly kind of funding that team. And, you know, most of
17:06the players on the team being refugees from war. And it's just it's just kind of remarkable when
17:10you think about the resources that they've had compared to some of the other teams that they're
17:15facing off against and giving a really difficult game to. Yeah.
17:19JQ, any thoughts to add on the South Sudan game?
17:23Nothing specifically on the game. I don't remember who I was listening to. And they were they were
17:27like wringing their hands about the sustainability of Luol Deng funding them. It's just like enjoy
17:31the moment. Jeez. It's just like it's a really cool story. And they're going to find a future
17:36for this program. It's a really cool story. And even if the government itself can't fund it,
17:42I think there's going to be a way to find a way to keep this program moving forward. It's very
17:47At this point with Adam Silver making overt overages to try and expand the game internationally,
17:53I would be pretty surprised, to your point, JQ, if somebody from the NBA world doesn't
17:59step up and assist Luol Deng with some of that. But, you know, just quick shout out to Luol Deng,
18:05who, in addition to, I think, you know, being a terrific ambassador for the game and doing a lot
18:10to build this program really up from scratch. People forget that Luol Deng was really good
18:16at basketball for a long time. That guy was like a serious, serious NBA player, you know,
18:22made a couple of all-star teams, was never really like in, you know, all-NBA awards
18:27consideration outside of defensive awards. But as far as culture setters go, as far as like just
18:33game in, game out, like grinders, dudes who really, you know, would play every single game
18:39and give high level effort for every single game, no matter what type of team he was on,
18:44Luol Deng was a very, very good NBA player. And that is worth mentioning. Derek White,
18:51obviously, was terrific. We will talk further about that. Briefly, the team USA also had one
19:00more game against Puerto Rico. In this game, Drew Holiday did not play after sustaining an ankle
19:06injury against South Sudan. Derek White also took a nasty shot to the back on a pretty hard screen,
19:12a legal but hard screen in that South Sudan game. Jason Tatum was the Celtic story in this game,
19:20where he broke out of his kind of relatively quiet appearances for 10 points and 10 rebounds.
19:26What did Tatum do differently from a process standpoint, Noah, in your eyes in this game
19:31versus in the other two? I don't know that he did. I think the only thing is, you know,
19:36he got some early easy baskets, and that's always good to see. But the thing that stood out is just
19:40that he got 10 rebounds. That was the most running player in the game. It was actually his first
19:43Olympic double-double. And for those of us that watch Tatum regularly, rebounding is one of his
19:48greatest strengths. I think for a forward, he might be the best rebounder in the league,
19:53honestly. And so for him, I thought from the beginning, he was trying to crash the glass.
19:58I thought even in the early games, he was going for every offensive rebound and kind of was right
20:03in the middle of things. But he actually kind of got in a good rebounding rhythm in this one.
20:07And that just gets you going, I think, to just be able, you know, it helps in other ways as well.
20:10And so that's really what stood out. If he can just provide that as a value add, then he has
20:16a distinct role on this team. Because rebounding is going to be a huge problem for the American
20:20team. If there's something that's going to take them down, like I think in general,
20:22in international play, that's always a potential weakness. And so the fact that Tatum was able to
20:27excel in that category, and then just see some shots go through, but he still hasn't hit like
20:31any jump shots. And I think that's what people want to see is hit some threes. And obviously,
20:34he hasn't been able to do that. But other than that, I actually haven't, I felt like some of
20:38the scrutiny over Jason Tatum's play so far in the Olympics has been a little bit overblown.
20:42Hmm, we're gonna get into that in just a minute when we get into the lab portion. But briefly,
20:47just to touch on the rebounding angle, you know, I do think one of the things that really got Tatum
20:52going in this past playoff run, when he wasn't hitting his shots, was getting involved in
20:57rebounding and defense and all of the other things kind of emulating his Drew Holliday and Derek
21:03White, you know, role player style teammates, but also be huge and physically, you know,
21:08much stronger than typical people who are kind of doing that. Jason Tatum rebounding is now a
21:15pretty sustained formula for success. There's real evidence that when he gets involved in the boards,
21:20it's a great way for him to get involved in the game broadly. Anyway, these the Olympic team will
21:26play against Brazil tomorrow, and then they will get presumably if they advance the winner of
21:31Australia versus Serbia in the semifinals, we're going to break down the Olympics and much more
21:36as we hop into the lab portion of the program. Specifically, this is the Celtics lab, right?
21:43We're here to talk about the Boston Celtics specifically and how they relate to a lot of this.
21:48So we've talked a lot about kind of the games themselves, but around this team, and we hinted
21:54at this earlier, some narratives have popped up specifically regarding some Celtics players.
22:00And I'm going to let you go first with this, Noah. We try to break through some of these
22:07narratives, and some of them are not, you know, the most interesting or the most thoughtful or
22:11the most well designed. What's one dumb narrative that you're seeing out of this Olympics team,
22:16and it could be Celtics related, or it could be, you know, just kind of broadly
22:19Olympics related in general, that you want to dispel on this podcast?
22:25I think maybe the playoff run being really easy. I think people forget that you get a certain seed
22:32because of how well you were during the regular season, and then they're mad when you don't have,
22:37you know, the most difficult matchups. And obviously, there were injuries, but the Celtics
22:40had injuries as well. And this is like, that's not just limited to this particular championship.
22:44I think all the bubble stuff is dumb, too. Like, just in general, I think if someone
22:48wins a championship, they want a championship. And I feel like a lot of times the NBA world
22:51a lot of times the NBA world tries to invalidate certain championships if the pathway wasn't
22:56difficult enough, and it wasn't exactly what they envisioned. So I think that, you know,
23:00there's always going to be a little bit of that. But in general, I felt like, you know,
23:03they won a championship, they won it in a resounding fashion, they won in as many,
23:07you know, as few games as you've really seen in a long time. And so that's kind of case closed to me.
23:14Nice. JQ, dumb narrative that you want to pick apart?
23:17Well, I do think that the most obvious dumb narrative is the Jason Tatum starting narrative.
23:24It's been beaten to death. But I do think that it brings up some other interesting questions,
23:29which we can get into shortly.
23:32Yeah, on the Jason Tatum starting narrative, we'll get to that. There's a lot of guys at
23:37the Olympics. And, you know, seniority is a real thing in the NBA, folks, like,
23:41Should it be a question?
23:45Well, maybe, maybe so. We'll get into that as well. But, um, it does matter. Dumb narrative
23:53that I want to pick apart real quickly. And I think this extends to both the Celtics playoff
23:57run and to the Olympics. Generally, the idea that Jason Tatum is being carried by super teams.
24:03Guys, it's a super team, because Jason Tatum is on it. That's a big part of why it's a super team.
24:11The rebounding, the defense, the switchability, the passing, which has just improved year after
24:17year after year after year. The fact that even when the shot is not falling, Jason Tatum can go
24:23Giannis mode and just truck people with his giant shoulders and get to the basket. Listen, that guy
24:29put on a monster closing game in game five of the NBA Finals after multiple series in a row of
24:36playing outstanding basketball. And yes, the jump shot wasn't falling at times. It looked a
24:42little uglier than maybe it should have. But guys, Jason Tatum has been an all NBA player for four
24:48years in a row now. Like, what are we doing here? That guy's a monster basketball player. And the
24:54idea that he's being backpacked to a title or to an Olympic gold medal by other elite players is
25:01categorically nonsense. If you look at the stats, if you look at the advanced metrics,
25:05if you just watch the games, which I have been begging people to simply watch the games,
25:11you can see pretty clearly Jason Tatum makes a significant impact on these things.
25:16Anyway, speaking of Jason Tatum and his Celtics compatriots in the Olympics, Drew Holiday and
25:24Derek White respectively, we did mention Derek took a pretty hard shot in the South Sudan game
25:31on a legal but very hard screen. Drew Holiday tweaked his ankle and sat the previous game.
25:37Jason Tatum shot has looked pretty flat. And obviously, we have expressed some concerns
25:42about Jason Tatum's wrist in previous episodes. How are we feeling about the health of the Boston
25:48Celtics and the additional mileage that this is Olympic run is going to be putting on specifically
25:53those guys? Noah, we'll swing it to you first. Yeah, I think the the mileage concern is real
25:59and not even just the Olympics is going, you know, doing a full playoff run is was way more
26:03mileage than a team that had an early exit. And that's part of what makes repeating so hard.
26:09But they're still going to have time off after this, they're still going to be about a month and
26:12a half before the season actually starts. And Brad Stevens has made this really clear. And some of the
26:16pressures that we've had with him during the offseason is that, you know, the guys that are
26:20have serious miles under their belt from from the Olympics and from the playoff run are going to get
26:26And so I think we're going to see a lot of players that maybe weren't even in the playoff rotation,
26:31or maybe played very limited minutes during the regular season, just take on a bigger load,
26:35which is why maybe like a guy like Jaden Springer, maybe he helps out with some guard minutes and
26:39Peyton Pritchard really assumes like significant guard minutes if Drew Holliday and Derek White
26:44get you know, nights off, which I think they will, because I don't think getting the best record in
26:48the league is the goal. I think it's keeping everybody fresh for the playoffs. And so they'll
26:52mitigate that. I think it's something that's front of mind from the get go as soon as you know,
26:57Drew and Jason were appointed to the team. And then obviously adding Derek White, that's another
27:00guy you have to worry about. And I think we're going to see maybe them lose some games because
27:05of this because they're going to not necessarily have their full strength lineups out. Although we
27:10do know that these are guys that don't love sitting out. So I'm sure it'll be hard to get
27:13Jason Payton to take rest days. But it seems to be like if something that Brad Stevens brought up in
27:17his own accord, it seems to be a priority of the front office and of the team moving forward and
27:22some certain players on the team that didn't get much of a chance last year are going to benefit
27:26from that. There's nothing quite like a summer night at Fenway with a hot dog in hand. And
27:31luckily, catching a game this season is easier than ever with GameTime, the official ticket
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27:54feature. There's no hidden fees at checkout. You see what you're going to pay. Another cool feature
27:59that I love is the seat view. You can literally see a panoramic view from your exact seat before
28:03you buy. No more wondering if that third baseline ticket has a giant pole blocking your view, which
28:08is a problem at Fenway. Look, whether you're a diehard baseball fan or just going out for a
28:12fun night, GameTime takes the guesswork out of buying tickets. So download the app today and
28:17use our code CLNS for 20 bucks off your first purchase and catch a game this summer that's CLNS
28:23for $20 off on GameTime. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Obviously, of course,
28:29Christophe Sporzingis will likely miss the first half of the regular season. Al Harford is presumably
28:34going to be on a similar plan than he was last year of resting on back to backs and playing
28:39limited minutes. Um, JQ, who are some guys that you're going to be looking for for the early part
28:44of the season to, um, you know, step up and assume a bigger role while Drew, Derek, and Jason
28:50presumably take a few games off here and there to rest and recover from their prolonged playoff runs.
28:56I mean, I think Luke Cornett is obviously going to see more time. I think we're going to see some
29:00Mimi Ishikata actually as well, at least early in the season. Maybe not in huge roles, maybe not
29:05against the better teams, but I think that if they're, you know, playing the Washington Wizards
29:10on a Thursday night, why not, you know, give them some runs, save some legs. And like, I think this
29:16whole concern about rest in the off season is a little bit overblown because first of all, we're
29:23complaining about Jason Tatum not playing at all in one game and they're playing 15 minute stints,
29:28right? It is high level basketball, but these guys would be playing basketball somewhere because
29:33that's what they do, right? So there's always a risk of injury. You don't want to see it. You
29:38want to minimize the possibility. But as Noah said, if you have a month and a half off, if a
29:43month and a half off of an activity is not enough to recover from the worst of it, it's probably not
29:48a sustainable activity. So I think, well, there's going to be a lot of work to manage these minutes,
29:56particularly early in the season for the goals we've been discussing. We don't need to worry as
30:00much as we do. I think we're all kind of collectively scarred by Donald Guarneri playing
30:04internationally a few seasons back. So it happens. Just don't worry too much.
30:11I think to your point, there's a really good point that you made there, which is that
30:14for the vast majority of the NBA, many guys, many guys don't do this, but for the majority of the
30:20NBA, the off season does not mean no basketball activities. It means pickup. It means open gym.
30:26It means practice. It means doing other basketball activities than playing regular season games or
30:32playing playoff games. But these guys are in the NBA for a reason. Namely, many of them are
30:39deeply obsessed with the idea of playing basketball all the time. And so there's going to be basketball
30:45activities. One thing that I am looking forward to start the regular season, and we'll spend more
30:50time on this in a later episode, but a guy looking actually who might be in for a big run is Jalen
30:56Brown, who is going to get a full off season here, who's not playing on the Olympics and whose chip
31:03on the shoulder continues to grow larger and larger and larger. And if there's one thing we've
31:09seen from Jalen Brown in previous off seasons, it's that when that chip gets nice and big, he
31:15tends to get a lot better at basketball. So I would not be surprised given the injuries, given the
31:21lack of rest and given generally kind of what's going on with the Celtics to start next season
31:27and with Jalen Brown specifically, if we're in for a monster Jalen Brown year.
31:33A really good off season for bulletin board material for the Celtics. So as much as we've
31:37been talking about these dumb narratives, it's great if they need something to motivate them.
31:42For sure. So we'll briefly touch on a little bit more Olympic basketball and then we'll move into
31:48some bigger stuff to close out the pod. I'll go on record here as I have in previous episodes
31:57and saying that I have questioned some of the coaching decisions that have been made on the
32:02men's Olympic basketball team. Now they are winning in blowout fashion, so I can't question
32:06too much, but I am a little bit curious, Noah, how do you feel about Steve Kerr's hockey subs
32:11and about the managing of minutes and development in general as far as the men's Olympic basketball
32:18goes? Yeah, I think the thing with Steve Kerr is that a lot of people are going to be saying
32:23he's a terrible coach. People have a lot of criticism of him, obviously, during FIBA last
32:27year when you went with small lineups and then with Tatum, he kind of started the pot even more.
32:31But the reality is that the thing that he's getting criticized for is lineups and substitution
32:36patterns. And that's something that most NBA coaches don't have to worry about to this extent,
32:41because there's normally a pretty obvious pattern of like you have your stars and maybe you have a
32:46couple of proven bench guys and they're going to come in and give your stars rest. But now it's
32:49completely different. Like you could literally get any five combination of players as you're
32:52starting lineup and make a case for why that makes sense. And so he certainly has a learning
32:58curve there. And I don't I don't agree necessarily with every single move that he's made, but
33:02he knows better than me as far as why he made those moves and what particular reasoning there was.
33:07Hockey subs in general to me feel like kind of an out when you're trying to figure out substitution
33:11patterns. And I say this to somebody who was one of the captains of my college club basketball team
33:16and I ran our minutes. And I would whenever I was doing hockey subs, it was because I kind of just
33:20gave up on trying to please everybody and figure out the right combination. So maybe I'm viewing
33:25it through that lens a little bit. But I do think at the end of the day, like if they're winning by
33:29a lot, a lot of a substantial amount of it might be the talent. But you can't really criticize that.
33:34I thought that's why with the Serbia game, everybody that played played really well.
33:38So to then make a whole story for two days about the guy who didn't play feels a little bit
33:42shortsighted of the ultimate goal here, which is a gold medal. Yeah, I actually think you can
33:48criticize it a little bit, but not in the context that you are framing it, because the ultimate goal
33:53of the moment is to win the gold. And he's doing that. They're winning the game. They're not having
33:57any real resistance even when they do play the games ever since they left the exhibition rounds.
34:04But there's also, as you hinted at, it's this method that you just deal with the egos, you deal
34:11with the difficulty of trying to put together something like that, which is not a small
34:15challenge. I don't think that's really even been emphasized enough in general, that it's really
34:20challenging to manage these egos as we are seeing from the conversation about Tatum or Joel Embiid.
34:26But it's also kind of in response to the fact that all these other teams have this continuity.
34:31And yet, in a way, it kind of prevents Team USA from building that continuity. So I'm a little
34:38concerned about how it's not necessarily creating expected rules, like is Jason Tatum, for example,
34:44I think he is, but if he were sad again in another important game, would he be less interested in
34:49coming back for the next Olympics? Like, are we potentially damaging the future of Team USA by
34:54not creating more of a system that kind of mirrors the other stuff? Or is that even possible? I'm not
34:59really sure. I'm not in a position to try to manage Team USA, right? But it's a really interesting
35:05conundrum they find themselves in. I want to touch on something that you actually just mentioned,
35:10because I have noticed one thing with regard to these rotations is that there's at least two guys
35:17that are pretty locked in every time, right? It's LeBron James and Steph Curry, no matter what,
35:22those guys are in the starting lineup, pretty much without exception. And I understand why,
35:27they're two legends of the game, all-time greats. If you have LeBron and Steph on your team,
35:32they're starting LeBron and Steph, that makes complete sense to me. But in terms of building
35:38fits around those two guys, if we have LeBron and Steph in pen, locked in, those guys are starting
35:44every game, which again, totally reasonable in my mind, building the lineup around those two guys
35:50becomes an interesting challenge. And to that point, I am curious about the role specifically
35:56of Joel Embiid, who has, I think at times looked a little uncomfortable with the international play.
36:03The international game is very physical. Joel Embiid is currently coming off of a knee injury
36:08that significantly hampered him during the NBA playoffs. Obviously, he also was out for much of
36:15the regular season this past year. He looks like he's moving not at his top speed. There are times
36:22when his game looks a little awkward and stilted. There are times when he looks great. But if I
36:29noticed one player that's looked a little bit off so far, it has been Joel Embiid. And by contrast,
36:35Anthony Davis and Bam Adebayo have looked exceptional. Anthony Davis looks like the best
36:40defender on this team. And maybe even he might be their best player outside of Kevin Durant,
36:46at least right now. And I guess I'm curious, Noah, if you're building the starting lineup
36:53from scratch and the bench rotations from scratch, is Joel Embiid going to be in your starting lineup?
37:00No, definitely not. I think Joel Embiid is probably one of the players that has looked
37:04the least effective on this team, as you said. So yeah, again, it's less about the starters for me,
37:09it's more about who's going to be out there in a close game at the end of games. But yeah,
37:13I think that the guys that have made their mark is like, you have to have out there is a pretty
37:18limited list. But I would say LeBron is like the only non negotiable and probably Kevin Durant,
37:22too, honestly, with the way that he's played off the bench. And Steph Curry, you know, he hasn't
37:26played as well. But Steve Kerr being the coach and also just his stature as a player, I don't see
37:31that getting getting slashed. Nobody's giving Steph Curry open, even if he hasn't hit anything
37:36for a week. Yeah, no, I think that's completely fair. I guess I'm just curious about the Embiid
37:41starting thing, just because to me, it seems like AD and Bam have soundly outplayed Joel Embiid so
37:49far. And, you know, I understand, like, maybe the argument for starting him to try and, you know,
37:55get him into a better rhythm or that, you know, they went out of their way to like, really recruit
38:00Joel Embiid and bring him onto the team. And maybe that was there were some promises made here and
38:04there. It strikes me that like going up against those teams that you as, as you mentioned earlier,
38:10have really established chemistry going up against Germany, which, for example, has looked
38:15terrific, where, you know, Dennis Schroeder and Daniel Tice and Franz Wagner and all of these guys,
38:21you know, have been playing together forever and know exactly what their roles are or going up
38:25against like, you know, a tougher Canada team where like, there's a pretty clear delineated hierarchy
38:31of everything runs through SGA, we play off of that, etc, etc. I do wonder if at some point,
38:39the kind of mix and match hockey sub is potentially going to come back and bite them.
38:46And like against a more experienced, that dependable team like a Germany. I do wonder
38:52if Joel Embiid is the best guy to start there. Um, so there is other basketball being played
38:59outside of the men's five by five. Particularly, we have to talk about how the Olympic women's
39:05five on five team has been on yet another utterly dominant run, and is looking poised to
39:13take gold yet again. Noah, you've been all over this. What have you seen from the WNBA? And sorry,
39:21from the from the women's Olympic team, and from the kind of broader impact and connection that
39:26that has with the kind of expanded and, I think, in many ways, really successful WNBA run that's
39:33happening right now in terms of capturing people's attention. Yeah, I would actually
39:38argue that I think this other Olympic run is actually being really underrated because of
39:42the fact that it doesn't include some of the players that have grown really popular this year
39:46and that it's unfortunate because they've been, this is a team that's won 58 straight Olympic
39:50Games. So their their Olympic dominance is it completely outright, you know, outpaces the men's
39:56side. And they have some of the greatest legends in the sport currently competing on this roster,
40:01as well as some of the younger players that are kind of in the next generation of stars like
40:05Sabrina Ionescu. So yeah, I've been a little disappointed with how the kind of the less
40:11excitement around this team compared to what we saw around the WNBA season, just because of how
40:16loaded of a team it is. And I feel like it became, it's kind of like the Jason Tatum DNP thing where
40:20it's like you're missing the big picture for for one person's agenda. I feel like the Katelyn Clark
40:24omission from this roster is a little bit similar than that. Like clearly this team,
40:28what you know, you can criticize the choices of who they put on the team, but they're winning,
40:31they're winning everybody handle, beating everybody handily. So yeah, I expected that
40:35they'll win gold, I expect that they'll do it in dominant fashion. The rest of the world is
40:39getting better. But I would say for the women's side, there's still it's still more of an imbalance
40:43between America and other countries, kind of more similar to how the maybe the men's side was 15
40:48years ago, we are still seeing, you know, there are some WNBA players for other countries, but
40:52not at the same level that we're seeing in the NBA, where it's really become international. And
40:57even, you know, the top MVP candidates aren't American. So you don't see quite that level of
41:01dominance. It's funny, you know, there, it's true that they are putting on a more dominant display
41:07in many respects than the men's, the men's team is. But I've noticed some similarities between
41:13the men's team and the women's team, namely that, aside from, you know, like veteran superstars,
41:19like kind of making their last big run at gold, as well as, you know, a kind of younger class of
41:24like, up and coming stars that are really putting their stamp on the game. The Boston Celtics have
41:30been, you know, a huge part of the men's five on five team, and the Las Vegas Aces have been a huge
41:37part of the women's five on five team. It's interesting to see like franchise builders
41:44around these specific teams as well. All right, we're gonna get out of here. I think, you know,
41:51we've covered a lot of this. Obviously, before we go, I want to ask one more question. But Noah,
41:56before we go, give us the lowdown. Where can we find your stuff? What are what are what are you
42:01up to these days? And where do we where do we get more Noah D'Also NBA content?
42:07Yeah, so all my WNBA coverage is on SB Nation. I'm full time there covering the league at large
42:13and just women's basketball in general. And then we'll also be regularly covering the Celtics on
42:17there and continuing to write for Celtics blog. And then as far as video coverage, I'll be doing
42:21a lot of stuff with CLNS to share in a more formal role and obviously launching my new Celtics
42:26podcast, You Got Boston. So lots of places to find me. But I am doing this work full time now,
42:31which is exciting because last year I worked in politics full time alongside everything. So
42:35I'm excited to be able to kind of put all my all my time and energy into this.
42:38Congratulations. JQ, where can we find your stuff?
42:42Well, if you were watching this on Celtics Wire, obviously there and occasionally you
42:48will also see me on Spurs Wire. You might see me on some of the other wire sites and
42:53subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. We might have some interesting
42:59content popping up here and there out of our normal schedule. So subscribing will help find it.
43:04If you like the music that you heard at the beginning of this podcast, that band, which I
43:08am in, is releasing a song at midnight that you can presave if you go to any of our social media
43:14platforms and click the various links associated with them. We're also going to be going on
43:18tour soon and we'd love to see you at various shows. Noah, thank you for joining us. Please
43:24make sure to follow Noah on social media. Make sure to check out all of our stuff on CLNS
43:29and YouTube. And of course, check out the You Got Boston podcast. We're going to leave you
43:33with this question. How are we feeling about three-on-three generally as an Olympic sport?
43:39Good, bad? I really like it. Yeah. Yeah, it's completely different. So I think people are
43:44looking for five-on-five basketball when they turn on three-on-three. It's a completely different
43:47sport, but I've been closely covering the women's side. They're in metal play right now. They
43:51actually play in a minute. So, but yeah, they've been really fun to watch, but it's just a lot
43:56sloppier because of the 12-second shot clock. You see a lot of air balls, a lot of shot clock
43:59violations. So you kind of have to get used to that, but I find it really fun. And as a player,
44:03I love playing three-on-three. So it was kind of just cool to see that and be an Olympic sport now.
44:07Fabulous. You can use some aesthetic tweaking per Noah's point, but yeah, it's a lot of fun.
44:13For the men's ice cube. Come on, man. You have a whole league. Get it together. We're trying to
44:17win it all. Anyway, this episode of the Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by PrizePix,
44:22the exclusive fantasy basketball partner of the CLNS Media Network. Celtics Lab is also brought
44:27to you by Game Time Tickets, last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. And if you enjoyed this
44:32pod, first off, check out You Got Boston. Also check out How About Them Celtics, first to the
44:37floor, and the many other New England sports podcasts available on the CLNS Media Network.
44:43I am your guest host, Alex Goldberg. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you soon.