Wales-Deaf-HC
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00:00Can you state your name and current position, please?
00:10Yeah, my name is R.J. Coles and I am the head coach of the Wales Deaf Rugby Union men's
00:16team.
00:17Thanks for giving up your time today, R.J.
00:19You know, first question really, how did you get coaching the Wales Deaf Rugby Union?
00:26Well, to try and cut a long story short, I actually employed a player who actually played
00:33for Wales Deaf Rugby.
00:36Just sort of having a rugby background, we knew about one another, heard of each other.
00:42Anyway, he sort of approached me and said, look, I don't suppose you know of anyone who
00:47fancies doing any analysis work because our analyst has finished and we're looking to
00:54fill that position.
00:55I think he knew that I'd spent sort of like the four years previous working with the Welsh
00:59women as an analyst and sort of took it as an invitation from him.
01:06So I went along, introduced myself, helped out for a little bit.
01:12The initial sort of steps were for me to be the analyst, however, we ended up having a
01:21few coaches and a few senior players that weren't returning due to a lack of a World
01:28Deaf Rugby sort of World Cup taking place in Wales.
01:34So a few left and it paved the way for me to to get into the coaching side of things
01:39realistically.
01:41Great. You know, for coaches watching this and hearing Deaf rugby for the first time,
01:45you know, what is it?
01:47You know, what would people expect to see if they were watching a game?
01:52There's often, because of the title of Deaf rugby, there's often a bit of a misconception
01:57that it is purely for those who many would refer to as being profoundly deaf, don't hear
02:02anything. But it also covers players who are hard of hearing and there is a particular
02:09threshold. But I mean, ultimately, if you're watching a game, you're not going to
02:16necessarily notice that much of a difference.
02:19It would sort of take a bit of a trained eye to understand because there's not a great
02:23deal that is different.
02:25The game is played exactly the same.
02:27All you might have is a British Sign Language interpreter present to support with any of
02:33the players whose first language is British Sign Language.
02:38And possibly there might be an extended period during calling for lineouts, things like
02:43that. And that's just to enable players to get together and give them a little bit more
02:48time. But invariably, it's not something that's required.
02:52You're an experienced coach.
02:54Is there any differences in coaching players who are deaf?
02:57And if so, what are they?
02:59I think, I mean, there's a lot of differences.
03:05And it's also probably important to bear in mind that when you're coaching individuals,
03:12there's always differences just when you're talking about how you coach individual
03:17players. But with the deaf and hard of hearing players, probably one of the biggest
03:23things is around about communication.
03:28Being able to communicate with the players is of paramount importance.
03:32We have to make use of a variety of different methods of communicating with the
03:38players, not only sort of using sign language, but simplifying calls.
03:44Prior to training in sessions, we'll pick up on sort of two or three keywords that we want
03:50to try and get across in a game, but are able to sign it from distance.
03:56We also use a lot of different strategies.
03:58So prior to training, we'll go through a lot of video footage to try and make sure that
04:05they understand. We use that.
04:09And also, demonstrations become pretty important because if it's difficult for you as a
04:15coach to explain more than one or two, three things, you know, you might end up finding
04:23that you're either using a demonstration, maybe using yourself as a coach or trying to
04:29get some of the players who already know.
04:31So actually, they use these visual tools and aids a lot more.
04:36Great. You know, you touched on it then, really, as a head coach, just talk us through
04:40your planning side of thinking, really, for a session with deaf players.
04:47Planning can be quite interesting.
04:49I mean, why it's interesting for us at the moment is over the last probably 12 to 18
04:55months, we've had quite a big emphasis on trying to increase our sustainability and also
05:04develop and bring more players into the deaf, hard of hearing game.
05:09So we do have almost sort of like an open training policy.
05:12So we can invariably have an influx of new players.
05:17So that's something that we always have to sort of take into account.
05:22But again, in terms of my sort of role, the head coach role, you know, I've got a defence
05:29set piece sort of forwards coach and attack starter play backs coach.
05:34And the planning from a coaching perspective usually involves us three.
05:40Then what we'll do is we'll also then begin liaising with the British Sign Language, the
05:44interpreter, to actually make sure that when we break our session up, you know, we'll go
05:52through it. So the sort of coaching structure, the daily structure will start off with
05:57admin, gives us an opportunity to also look at analysis as well.
06:01So players will know what the what the breakdown is of coaching session.
06:06Again, keywords, unless you understand British Sign Language yourself, unless you've got
06:13a good repertoire, you do become reliant on sort of keywords.
06:18And again, if you wanted to try and get those onto the field, there's no point trying to
06:22have, you know, war and peace with the players.
06:26You know, you need you need a few things.
06:27So what we'll do is we'll link our keywords based on the session content and what we're
06:33expected, you know, what our objectives are from from each sort of step of the session.
06:40You know, communication has come up quite, you know, in our chat so far, you know, and
06:45what I take is the methods around sign language, simplifying calls, having keywords, then
06:52using visual learning around video footage, demos, you know, is it a mixture of all, you
06:59know, that you're finding when you're when you when you're coaching deaf players?
07:03Or is it some methods that you use most?
07:06Yeah, no, do you know what, it was certainly a bit of a learning experience when I started
07:11the coaching side of things with with the deaf players, because it's something that
07:17unless you do have hearing loss yourself, you honestly you can't put yourself
07:22in that person's shoes.
07:26So in terms of what you select for different players, you have to use a different tool
07:32bag. You know, we've got a couple of players who are profoundly deaf and they do rely on
07:37the British Sign Language interpretation.
07:40So again, you know, as a coach, if you wanted to bring players in, you've got to wait for
07:46the British Sign Language interpreter to come in.
07:49From that, you then have to speak slowly, make sure you can get a message across.
07:55However, for some of the more sort of competent players, again, chances are they
08:05probably already know what the answers are.
08:07So again, you can use the players to your advantage to try and get them to support.
08:12So the message isn't always coming from a coach.
08:15So coming from their own peers and again, in terms of what you select and how you select
08:21it, it's very much you have to have the flexibility because, you know, you might plan a
08:26session if things don't quite quite go according to plan.
08:30You know, you probably you've been through your demonstration hasn't quite worked.
08:36You know, did you check for understanding?
08:39So again, bring players in.
08:41If if you've got a few who didn't quite understand it, it may be that you need to
08:45spend a little bit more time with them whilst everyone else is getting on with things,
08:49with another coach overseeing it and actually explaining and getting feedback from them
08:53to make sure they understand.
08:55But there's no one real solution.
08:59You know, you have to make sure that you cater for the full range of sort of hearing
09:05impairments and for those that, you know, rely on the British Sign Language completely.
09:11How do you find coaching through others, you know, sign language, et cetera?
09:16You know, how do you think that impacts you to get your point across?
09:21I've got to be honest, when I first started, I almost invent, I'm quite animated when I
09:26do come across and speak.
09:28I almost invented my own sign language.
09:31And I'll be honest, when I reflected, I really felt embarrassed for myself because I
09:39never meant it. You know, I certainly didn't want to offend anyone or anything like that.
09:43It's just, you know, I had my own frustrations of not being able to communicate to a
09:48player that's sort of five metres away from me.
09:51But actually then having the specialist support that you have, I mean, it's vital.
09:56Coaching with others and again, something that, you know, when we talk about things like
10:03tone of voice, you know, your body language, things like that.
10:07Again, we're quite lucky because Amy, who does all our British Sign Language, she's level
10:13six, very, very competent.
10:15And if you want to be blunt to the point and frank, the way that comes across.
10:22However, if you want to be more nurturing, you know, for some of the younger players, the
10:26less experienced.
10:27Again, the way she comes across with that comes in the way she signs.
10:31So it's something that also helps you to reflect yourself as a coach on how you put
10:36messages across.
10:38But no, I really enjoy, I'm a people person, so I do like working with others.
10:43And that's everything. That's the kit man through to, you know, S&C and nutrition, even
10:51the physios, because we've got to be that little bit closer in terms of how we
10:56communicate with one another to make sure that the messages are correct, they're
11:00consistent, and then we can make decisions in a more timely and effective or
11:08efficient manner.
11:11You know, some great insight there, you know, just touching on that, how do you tempo your
11:16sessions then?
11:17You know, if you've got to, you know, use sign language, maybe use different
11:20communication techniques, you know, is that a point, as a head coach, you want your
11:24sessions to flow and the tempo?
11:26You know, just talk us through a bit of your insight on that.
11:30Again, we get allocated our time.
11:33So in terms of planning and preparation, what we do is make sure that Sab, the team
11:39manager, he stays on top of things like timings.
11:42You know, quite often as coaches, you see something, it's not quite perfect.
11:46So what you want to do is you want to overrun by a few minutes.
11:49Sometimes that can impact on others.
11:52So what we try to do is make sure right from the planning, what we do is we think about
11:58things like the time and the intensity at which we want to train that.
12:01Now, if you've got new players, if you've got new systems, new structures that you wish to
12:06put in place, what you'll find is, is that there might be like increased
12:12opportunities where you put a little bit more talking in.
12:16However, in the build up, if you want to try and get players being able to perform
12:22and sort of fatigue and that, if they've just come out of a little block of S&C, the last
12:27thing you want to do is to stop them, you know, get their heart rates back down, re-energise
12:33them in terms of their fatigue level.
12:35And then all of a sudden they've got a different focus.
12:38You know, sometimes, you know, you have to go in and plan and execute what you do because
12:43you want to try and create that intensity.
12:45Again, if you were to stop everything every, every 30 seconds, how applicable is that to
12:51the real game? You know, sometimes you can get passages of play that may go for two, three
12:55minutes. So if you want to replicate that in your training, you've got to be, you've got to
13:00be willing to let some things slide, but also sort of put it in the back of your mind.
13:05So if you need the fault idea at a later stage, you can still come back to it because you
13:10don't want them to pick up bad habits and think it's something that they're allowed to do in
13:14training and then take it into a game.
13:17You know, you know, you touched on it earlier, you know, is there any lessons that you've
13:21learned as a coach, you know, by going through these processes?
13:25Yeah, you know, when I first went into it, I didn't really know what to expect from a
13:31coaching perspective.
13:33And what I found was it was actually a lot more difficult than I thought, but I've got quite
13:38high expectations of myself.
13:41But once I sort of chipped away at my own sort of limitations and insecurities about how I
13:46came across, you know, we've really tried to build an environment and have sort of like
13:53nice, trusting relationships with the players that actually, when I was able to get rid
13:58of my own issues and difficulties, things became a little bit easier.
14:04In terms of learning lessons, everything from trying to better understand things like
14:10British Sign Language to help me communicate, understanding individuals and knowing what
14:16what their sort of their threshold is for what they might be able to hear, what they can't
14:20hear. Because again, I mean, you know, stopping a player and speaking to them, you know,
14:24trying to understand will they take that on board or will they need someone to talk to them
14:29at a later stage? And again, going back to having new players and more experienced players,
14:34you know, we've got some that, you know, they play in representing the Indigo Premiership,
14:38you know, then you've got other players who are literally coming up from a youth system
14:42where maybe they've only ever been involved and had one, maybe two coaches. To have groups
14:48of people around them, again, what we have to try and do is manage expectations, also
14:54teach them. So, you know, when you've got players that haven't understood the performance
14:59analysis process, to sit them down and get them to understand what we're looking at.
15:05You know, that was a lesson that I learned quite quickly. I've been involved in it for
15:10long enough and I know what I'm looking for. If they don't know what their own key
15:14performance indicators are and they don't understand it, then what you've got to do
15:17is you've got to set some time aside for them to work with the analyst to actually, you
15:22know, to go through and understand what it is that they are reviewing and then be able
15:26to use those tools more effectively.
15:28It's a great sense of understanding yourself, you know, in that answer. Last couple of
15:33questions really, you know, is there any specific training or qualifications you need for this role?
15:39I mean, something that I'd certainly bear in mind, obviously, I've been involved in
15:46coaching and being sort of like a level two coach, you know, that was very much about
15:51being hands-on with the coaching. Obviously, being a head coach, I'm quite lucky to do
15:57the level three back, I think it was sort of 2005 when I did my level three. And again,
16:03I better understood the role of what a head coach was. So, in terms of planning, organising,
16:08adapting, training, managing people, you know, managing the coaches and all the support staff,
16:14managing expectations of players, you know, actually, if you are going to take on board
16:19like a head coach role, you know, sort of going through the WU sort of coaching programme,
16:26going through the certificates, it does help improve your skills, your knowledge,
16:31your understanding of what's required of those roles. I definitely would say, you know, if you
16:40did have an open mind, even if you weren't sort of didn't have the capacity to maybe go in and
16:48fully understand British Sign Language and start doing your courses, you know, being brought up in
16:53Wales. Unfortunately, I wasn't a Welsh speaker, but I always understood the importance of Welsh
16:59names, you know, and towns and villages and things like that, and the importance of Welsh
17:04just in general. I think it's the same thing. There is sort of like a deaf community and being
17:10able to understand and try and make an effort with sign language, whether it's simple things
17:16such as greeting them, saying please and thank yous and that, you know, it is something that
17:23does go a long way in trying to support and understand the deaf community as well.
17:29That's great. You know, just to finish really, what's the key summary points that you say to
17:34any community coach watching this, you know, around your roles that you coach in deaf players?
17:40What's the key takeaways? I think in order to summarise, I think the first thing is to better
17:48understand yourself, and that's not just because of sort of being involved in coaching the deaf
17:55rugby side of things. If you don't have your own sort of coaching philosophy, if you don't know
18:00what your limitations, if you don't challenge yourself and want to go on the sort of the
18:03coaching courses, then it's difficult to start to appreciate and become reflective and want to
18:11move and develop yourself. So, I think that's quite important. What that can then do is that
18:16can support your sort of confidence and your self-esteem and your competency as a coach.
18:23Obviously, you know, being really specific to deaf rugby, communication is key. You know,
18:32you've sort of said a couple of times, I've spoken quite a lot about it, but it's not just
18:38one key element. It's being able to understand the players, what they, how they communicate,
18:44what tools that they need. Also, you know, being able to communicate effectively and efficiently
18:50with your staff, using staff to communicate for you, not only during training and meetings,
18:57but also when you're on the field. Again, knowing that you can go to particular players who can
19:03understand and hear more or other players, you know, when you can't use voice, actually you can
19:09use your key terminology to sign and they can get messages over to other players for you. So,
19:15communication is huge as well. In terms of a third point, I think what I've been through is
19:26starting off with quite a blank canvas, not really knowing. Now, for me, whether I've been
19:32involved with coaching youngsters, coaching women, you know, or even coaching deaf players,
19:38there's a real need to break down some of the barriers to participation. And that's not just
19:45participating with players, but also coaches. You know, it's been, it's quite a privilege being able
19:51to, we've got Richard Hibbard, you know, who's involved, you know, to think that we could get
19:57an ex-Welsh British Lions player wanting to be involved in this sort of environment.
20:03There's no better person, really, to inspire players to want to go and be involved in such
20:08an environment. We've also got Paige Randall, you know, she qualifies to play for Wales Deaf.
20:16However, she's managed to avoid us and she's playing for the full national squad. I mean,
20:23us being able to have sort of key people like this and being able to make use of them and
20:29celebrating what they've done for deaf rugby is huge. So, it's understanding how important
20:37deaf rugby is and breaking down the barriers to make sure that you get the coaches involved,
20:42you get the players involved. Because I see quite a lot of youngsters, I've got a daughter
20:47who plays rugby and I see quite a lot of children wearing hearing aids. And it's great to see them
20:52playing. But also, I also get coaches asking me, oh, you're the coach of the deaf side. You know,
20:58what do I do? How do I do this? And again, there are places that you can go, you can be signposted
21:03to get support and help. A number of our coaches in the British Sign Language have been out and
21:08they've given support to coaching staff to try and help them better understand what they might
21:13need to do to help those players. Because ultimately, they should be given every opportunity
21:19possible to play. Oh, look, there's some fantastic insight there, RJ. I'm fairly thankful for your
21:26time that you've given up. You know, I wish you all the best for the forthcoming season.
21:30Yeah. All right. Thank you, Woodsy. Everyone stay home, stay safe.