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00:00the spirit of Debo and Jake Moody conversation, but listen to what Kyle Shanahan said on the
00:04conference call today with regard to all of this. We think you will find this very interesting.
00:10All right, so here's Shanahan on if he has addressed the scuffle between Tabor Pepper and
00:19Debo Samuel. I did initially, I mean, I didn't initially, I mean, after the game and stuff,
00:24I didn't think it was too big of a deal, but you know, after getting home and seeing it all on
00:28SportsCenter and everything and all that stuff, I want to make sure I did and talk to the guys
00:32about it, talk to a number of guys on the team and we squashed it and we're good. Okay, so yes,
00:38didn't think he was going to have to, then he was like, oh, oh, I think we need to have a little
00:42chat. They do, they squash it. Listen to this one though. Is he satisfied now on where the situation
00:50is? Oh yeah, totally. I think it was a little bit of a reaction and you know, I don't think,
00:57you know, he never wanted Debo to throw a baby punch or anything on anybody in our own team,
01:01but Debo also wasn't saying anything bad to Jake like it sounded. He was meeting him on the field,
01:06telling him to lock in, you know, the same thing I'll tell to an offensive player is just drop some
01:10balls or make some penalties or something. You never sit there and belittle anybody or try to
01:15embarrass anyone. You try to challenge guys that you believe in and a way of, that's how we speak
01:19to each other and tell them someone they need to focus and lock in because we know you can do this
01:23and I like Pep's attentions on it and he's got his kickers back and, but I think he kind of
01:29interpreted wrong what Debo was doing to him and overreacted a little bit and Debo didn't like that
01:34and got him out of his face and that's really about where it ended. Okay. How does that grab
01:38you? Because that certainly sounds to me like Kyle Shanahan is saying Debo was fine and Tabor
01:43overreacted. I don't know if he said that. He said it's good that he had his kickers back and maybe
01:49that Tabor misinterpreted what Debo was saying. That's what I heard Kyle say. And, you know, we
01:55don't really know what Debo said, but again, I would like to see another example of Debo putting
02:01another player in check in that fashion. And, you know, Kyle said that in the first bite you played,
02:07how, you know, Debo, I think he's used the word overreacted or he might've overreacted and you
02:12never want to show anybody up, but you do that to players that you believe in. And Kyle said,
02:17you know, we talk like that to each other all the time. We tell each other to lock in and all the
02:22rest of it. But what he said that also struck me is that you never want to show anybody up. And to
02:28me going on the field to talk to a kicker is showing him up. Now, could he have waited until
02:35he came to the sideline to tell him to lock in? Absolutely. But he didn't. And by going out on the
02:41field to me is showing the kicker up. Yeah. I don't see it that way. I see where you're coming
02:46from. But again, I, we have no idea that this even happened if Tabor Pepper doesn't start
02:50screaming at him, but like, that's my view. We never, like, I, I really do think stuff like
02:56this happens a lot on football sidelines. Let's go to Drew in San Jose. Hey, Drew, you're on
03:01with Willard and Debs. What's up? Hey guys, how's it going? Great. All right. Yeah. I mean, I just
03:09wanted to chime on timing on this really quickly here. And like the, the, the, the comments by,
03:15by Kyle Shanahan that you, you pointed out just now they're actually, they're actually pretty,
03:22you know, related to what I'm about to talk about. So Tabor Pepper, he had a AMA on Reddit
03:30and this was a while ago. This is when, when he was playing with the giants. So it was,
03:34it was definitely a while ago, but one of the questions on the AMA was what would tip you off
03:41the most? Right. And then Tabor answered, if you go at my kicker or punter, all bets are off.
03:49And yeah, I mean that when, when I saw that like earlier this morning, that sort of struck me like,
03:54wait a second, maybe this isn't, this isn't so much about Debo and Moody. Yeah. The way Debo
04:00came at Moody may might've gotten the headlines, but what did Tabor say? And I just wanted to,
04:04I just wanted to bring that up. And it was funny right before the call there, the comments from,
04:11from Kyle came, came in with that sort of alluded to that. So I found that really,
04:17really interesting. So maybe the question is not what Debo said or Moody said, maybe it's
04:22what Tabor said. Well, I mean, Drew, thanks. I like to me, this is just normal human interaction.
04:29We all have biases. Tabor is admitting right there and what you're saying. And I think he
04:34has even since then, Tabor is part of a small subgroup on the 49ers. Those are his people.
04:42So he's going to have his kickers back. So he got overly emotional about that side of it. Debo,
04:51I guess you could argue, maybe got over emotional about it from his perspective.
04:56That's how arguments happen. I do think that when you listen to Kyle Shanahan talk,
05:01when he starts saying things like that's how we talk to each other and maybe Tabor misinterpreted
05:07it, you know what I mean? Again, they're part of sort of a subsection within the team. And so maybe
05:13they're not as used to it, but when you, that's why I kind of take issue with this idea that,
05:18well, we've never seen Debo do this. I bet it happens all the time. I don't know the same way
05:25you don't, because I'm not there. But my sense on football sidelines is that this kind of talk
05:33to one another is not rare at all. And Debo is- Yeah, on sidelines.
05:37And Debo, yeah. This is not on the sidelines.
05:39That doesn't matter in this case. It doesn't matter.
05:41It doesn't, because you only- For me it matters.
05:42But you only saw it because Tabor freaked out. I saw it on the broadcast. You can see Debo come
05:48out. But you had no idea. He could have asked him what he wanted for dinner.
05:51Yeah, because that's what you're going to do. You're going to come off the sideline and say,
05:54hey, Jake, what do you want for dinner? I'm exaggerating because your point doesn't work.
05:59It's not showing him up just by going out there. You could look at the all 22 and see him come out
06:05and beeline. And why are you going to go out there and tell him, hang in there and pat him
06:09on the rump? That's showing someone up because he walked out on the field to talk to someone?
06:13You're not talking to somebody. You're basically shouting at him to tell him to lock in.
06:17But you didn't know that? That's what Kyle said he said.
06:20You wouldn't know that except for that Tabor freaked out.
06:23You would know it if you looked at the all 22, which I haven't. You could see it.
06:27How many of the players came off the sideline after the miss field goal?
06:30But you wouldn't know what he said. It's not showing him up because you wouldn't know that
06:35anything abnormal is happening at all. So you're putting this on Tabor Pepper for reacting.
06:40I am. Do you want me to play Kyle Shanahan again?
06:43You can play Kyle the rest of the show. I'm asking you. It seems like you're blaming Tabor
06:48Pepper for the one because he reacted. That's why this is a thing.
06:52I will say this again. Debo Samuel probably came with a little bit too much emotion,
07:00but to then react the way that Tabor Pepper did is not just an equal, even more of an overly
07:09emotional reaction, in my opinion, because I do not believe something like this to be rare
07:17at all. And I actually don't believe it to be out of place.
07:21Like, well, Tabor Pepper thought it was out of course, because it's no different than the way
07:26we act with our kids. Like Tabor is it. Tabor is sort of like he's biased toward his kicker.
07:32That's his guy. He's there to protect his kicker. It's like an offensive lineman. When a quarterback
07:37gets touched in a way that they don't like, they freak out. That's their guy.
07:43But so it's not to, it's not to excuse anyone or take sides. It's simply a matter of,
07:48I think this is, this is the way it goes on football sidelines. It's very emotional.
07:54And, and by the way, all of us who are like bothered by Debo, we were yelling the same
08:00thing he did on our TVs. Like what's more offensive here, Debo getting mad or your kicker
08:06missing three kicks. Dog, make the kick. You're pro. Right. But we don't have that same energy
08:12when our quarterback throws a third interception. I mean, you don't go over to the, to the quarterback
08:17and tell him, dude, lock in. And if you do, you do it on the sideline. You don't walk out on the
08:24field. Literally just said that that's what they do. Right. To each other, but not on the field
08:29where you show somebody like that one got you. That just doesn't bother me because you're a
08:35receiver and you're going up to a kicker who legitimately, I would assume that the kicker
08:40is trying to make the kick. Can we agree that he's trying to make the kick? Trying doesn't matter.
08:45It's all you can do is try. No, like you got to do dude. Like you, we get mad at people on in,
08:51in football or any sport, just no matter what they're trying to do, you bring different energy
08:55for different players. And I, I would love to see another example. And if you can find one,
09:00I would love to backtrack off the point where Debo Samuel is this animated to another player
09:07over their mistake. You've never seen Kyle go. I've never seen Debo Samuel. I'm talking about
09:11Debo. This is not Kyle. Kyle didn't go up to the kicker. Kyle didn't go on the field and
09:17walked away mother bleep and every single thing that he could exactly. And, and, and actually
09:22I'd argue once again, we don't know what Kyle said to Jake. You may very well have done. All
09:27we know is what Debo did. And that for me was way out of bounds. And I'm, you know, I I'm,
09:33I'm stunned. I'm Francis in Oakland. Hey Francis. Thanks for calling. Hey guys. Thanks for taking
09:40my call. Uh, what is going on, man? It, it is, it is his job. It is Debo's job as the captain of
09:51the team to inspire his team. Inspire might not be the wrong word, but the reality is it is.
09:58But we'll look, Kyle does not do this stuff. Kyle goes on record as talking about how Trent
10:04Williams and Debo Samuel fire up the team with the boom box and all that stuff. They're the
10:09emotional leaders of the team. The fact that he went on the field is just passion. That's just
10:14being excited, fired up, irritated, frustrated, and caring about the game because the guy missed
10:21three field goals. I mean, the court, the, uh, the coach of the team regularly goes on any,
10:27any NFL sideline steps a few feet onto the field when he's passionate about a call that the team
10:33didn't get, or he's frustrated about the team not doing well going on the field is not a factor
10:38here. I have a question for you. Who are you defending by saying that he's not actually
10:45helping like Moody? Like, are you defending Moody? Because Moody is a football player.
10:50These kickers actually want to be accepted on the team as part of the rest of this group of
10:55guys who are grueling out there. And they're out on kicker Island. Are you going to defend him and
11:01say that he needs to get special treatment, that he can't take the head butts and all the yelling
11:05and the lock it in stuff because he just needed it. He, he missed three kicks.
11:10And so Francis, you're saying that this is, that is what motivated him to make the next kick. The
11:15fact that, uh, his leader who is by the way, not the captain of the special teams, he's the captain
11:21of the offense. Is that what motivated him to make the next kick in your opinion?
11:25Devo is the captain of the Niners. Devo is the heart and soul of the Niners. That's all that
11:29matters. And last I checked the special teams are part of the Niners. So yeah, look, have you ever
11:35played sports before? Yeah, Francis. Yeah, come on. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, get your ass
11:42together, man. Like, come on. Like you've heard that before. Nothing else is working. Would you
11:47rather that he just, they just drop him, they cut him or rather have him do it off the field and not
11:54do it in a confrontational way that promoted or provoked rather the long snapper to react in that
12:00fashion. Clearly he did it in a way that offended the long snapper. But our reactions, Francis,
12:06thank you. We want to get some more people in. And by the way, tickets to tomorrow night's
12:09warriors gave less than 10 minutes away. I guess my, my, my thing to add there would be like,
12:15why, why isn't Tabor a part of that conversation? Our reactions are our responsibility. And you
12:22are saying that Debo's reaction was an overreaction. And if we accept that,
12:27why can we not also say it's possible that Tabor overreacted? Oh, it's definitely possible.
12:31Literally have the head coach of the team saying that on tape. And then his reaction,
12:36which may have been an overreaction provoke Debo to then put his hands swing with an open hand at
12:43Tabor Pepper. And so, I mean, if you want to, if you want to go to the score, emotional thing,
12:49man, this is football and their season is slipping away. Well, like that's what it was in that
12:54moment. It felt like the season is slipping away. You still have the lead in the game.
12:59That's not the point. It's not the end of a game. You're staring down a four and five record
13:04like with still have the lead. So it's not like, I mean, I could, I could understand it a little
13:08bit more if it was like the last second kick and you lost the game because of it. You still had
13:13the lead and Debo was frustrated. And part of his frustration I would guess was over their own
13:19offensive lack of productivity, getting the end zone, my friend. And then you don't have to worry
13:24about Jake Moody missing kicks. I mean, come on, man. If we're, if we're all going to love that
13:29word as much as we do accountability, we cannot be so scared of somebody talking to the kicker
13:36when he's having a disastrous day, a disastrous support, a performance. There are ways to do it.
13:42And that was not the correct way to do it. In my opinion, that's a fair opinion, but the coach of
13:46the 49ers just said, quote, this is how we talk to each other. That's a direct quote.
13:51Uh, Dane in Richmond is next up. Hi, Dane. Thanks for calling.
13:56Hi guys. Uh, first time, long time. Enjoy your program. Thank you. Um, I, I played a division
14:03one college sports for four years and I can tell you this is not uncommon. It happens all the time.
14:08The only difference here is this was caught on camera and it happened right there on the
14:12sideline. Normally this behavior happens in the locker room, but it is a very common and I wasn't
14:18surprised to see it. This is the way that, uh, players keep others in check. And, um, it happened
14:24to me, it happened to others. And, um, I thought it was a little bit over the top when Debo Samuel
14:30did, but it, uh, I guess the results seem to work, but, um, yeah, I saw it many times.
14:37Dane. Thanks. Appreciate it. Yeah. Look, I, I want to be very, very clear here. I'm, I'm not a big
14:42fan of, of, uh, of Tabor getting shoved in the side of the head. I'm not, I'm not a fan of that.
14:48I'm not saying anybody just crushed this and, and, and, and someone else is a hundred percent in the
14:52wrong. I don't really think that's the way these, these situations work. Um, I don't even necessarily
14:58know how perfect or imperfect this particular one was. I just don't think that this is outside the
15:04norm. My God, a tight end, a chest bumped his hall of fame, uh, head coach in the Superbowl.
15:12And they haven't lost a football game in a year. But like that happened that happened in the
15:18Superbowl, Travis Kelsey, like literally made contact with Andy Reed. There, there, there is
15:24no more emotional environment than a football sideline. So like, I just, that's my thing.
15:30Like, is it okay? Is it not? Okay. I just think, I just think this happens a lot. I think it happens
15:35a lot. And the only reason we know on this one is because one person, uh, took the emotions to
15:40a really high level. And then the response from the other person was to shove him in the head.
15:45Yeah. So we got to see it. And those things are not a good look. Oh, I'll agree with you.
15:49Unusual when you've got teammates going after other teammates, but you don't often see,
15:54and I'm trying to rack my brain for an example where a star player goes onto the field to
16:01basically berate the kicker and in a game where you're still winning. And, you know, for me,
16:07when it comes to leadership and everyone can lead in their own ways, and I've never been
16:11a part of a high level football team. And I know that things are conducted very differently
16:16in pro sports, especially in pro football, but true leadership would be handling that
16:22behind, not maybe behind closed doors, but certainly not in the field.
16:26And you can handle it in another way other than going onto the field to tell a kicker exactly how
16:32you feel about his bad performance. I just don't think we've got enough evidence to say that this
16:36isn't like the norm. This is how these guys hold each other accountable. Kyle Shanahan just said
16:42that today he did make the next kick. So like that's sort of a fair response. Like what's the
16:49problem? Who got hurt here? What's the awful thing that happens because of this?
16:54I think Debo's reputation takes a little bit of a hit.
16:57Really? With who?
16:59With some fans, me in particular. I mean, I look at that outburst and that's the way
17:05you're going to lead. That makes me think a little bit less of his leadership. If that's
17:09what you're going to do in a moment where you've got a guy who's clearly not feeling good about how
17:15he's doing, missing a third kick in a game that should have been over in a game where it's a kick
17:22that puts you up six and that's how you're going to lead. I know football is a tough guy sport,
17:27but that to me is not leadership. That's not what I'm looking for in terms of my leader.
17:33Let's do one more real quick. Pete in San Ramon. Hi, Pete. Thanks for calling.
17:38Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call this afternoon. I hope y'all are well.
17:42We're good, man.
17:43Okay. I'll admit right up. I'll admit right up front. I got one big butt.
17:48I'm fine with all the emotion and jumping around and yelling that y'all are talking about. That's
17:56all great, but the hands-on is the problem I have and that's something that's wrong with our whole
18:04world and that's what I got. All right, Pete. Thanks. Yeah. I don't, again, I don't disagree
18:09with this. Not a good look in the end where teammates are shoving each other in the head.
18:14I don't know that anybody loves that look, especially when it's your favorite team.