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SportsTranscript
00:00:00Okay, here we go.
00:00:03Welcome into a bright and early crossover episode of Patriots Daily and Patriots Beat
00:00:09going around the clock here, Alex Barth, Mike Kadlik, Brian Hines, Taylor Kyle's with you.
00:00:14I don't know why we set it up like this.
00:00:16We should, it should be like, there we go.
00:00:18Patriots.
00:00:19Oh, let's match it up with the, with the logos on the top.
00:00:22There we go.
00:00:23All right.
00:00:24Patriots Beat, Patriots Daily.
00:00:25Uh, it's a little early in the morning for moving pieces.
00:00:27I get that.
00:00:28Brian has his glasses on.
00:00:30He wore glasses.
00:00:31Like this has very like a good look, you know?
00:00:33Yeah.
00:00:35I don't feel so like meeting up with your friends at the diner vibes and maybe that's
00:00:40kind of where the show will go.
00:00:41We'll see.
00:00:42We appreciate everybody for tuning in at 9 a.m. on a, on a Wednesday.
00:00:46Usually do these shows live after practice, but media flag football game yesterday.
00:00:50I know people want to hear about that.
00:00:51So just get that out of the way real quick.
00:00:52Uh, one of the plays of the day, look, I got to give the play of the day to Tom Curran
00:00:56and Zack Cox.
00:00:58Zach made that dive in catch down the field, like the first play of the game.
00:01:01But Mike delivered a strike to Taylor in the back corner of the end zone.
00:01:05Taylor went full David Patton going up, falling backwards to make the catch.
00:01:08Um, and then our producer Amit, uh, hurt his knee in the second half.
00:01:13So they had to end the game.
00:01:15The white team, which was not the CLNS team is white, black people were wearing, uh, the
00:01:19white team was leading at the time.
00:01:20So they declared them the winner.
00:01:21I know there's some controversy about that, but, uh, yeah, that's BS.
00:01:27That was, that was disingenuous for them to go on early edition yesterday and call
00:01:30that a w there was 15 minutes left.
00:01:33That's a, I think it should have been no contest.
00:01:35There is a context to that, but you guys still didn't win.
00:01:39Yeah, we didn't win, but we didn't lose the ball.
00:01:41We were going to go score.
00:01:42We had the ball.
00:01:43We're going to score as one of America's great philosophers once said, if you ain't first,
00:01:47you're last.
00:01:48So it's yeah.
00:01:49All right.
00:01:50That's what's good.
00:01:51And wait, Taylor, any inside the, uh, ambulance, uh, fun stories from you guys were on the
00:01:56way to the hospital.
00:01:58Did anything good happen?
00:01:59I mean, earmuffs, if you're sensitive to like body stuff, but, um, so his knee dislocated
00:02:05on the field and we were in the hospital thing, like there were so many bumps in the road.
00:02:10It actually slid back into place on the way to the hospital.
00:02:13So by the time we got there, he was like, oh, okay, I guess I don't need to put it back
00:02:18in.
00:02:19So also if you're wondering why there was no written recap of the show yesterday, I
00:02:21would just, I was so busy as soon as I ended up in the hospital and then I had to go on
00:02:27the show.
00:02:28I felt really bad about that.
00:02:29But yesterday was pretty crazy.
00:02:30All right.
00:02:31So you'll get it now.
00:02:32We're going to talk mostly about yesterday's joint practice and get into the game tomorrow
00:02:35a little bit as well.
00:02:36But we'll start here.
00:02:37We'll start with you, Brian, the offensive line.
00:02:41And when I say the offensive line, so I'd seen practices before where I'm going back
00:02:48to last year, we all remember this, the offensive line struggles to the point where you can't
00:02:53properly evaluate the rest of the offense.
00:02:57We've all seen that practice a couple of times.
00:03:00This was almost a step further.
00:03:03I felt like the tackles specifically struggled so much.
00:03:08You couldn't even necessarily evaluate the interior and it, cause I don't want like city.
00:03:14So David Andrews, Michael, and when, who, I don't want to say they were good yesterday,
00:03:19but it felt like there were times where they were struggling because they had to not accommodate,
00:03:25but account for so much of what was going on on the outside, specifically, you know,
00:03:29mainly the guards, um, that, that became like an issue within itself.
00:03:35So as bad as it sounded, thank you, Dakota, as bad as it sounded, it almost was just like
00:03:42two guys that were a big part of it.
00:03:46That's not to say other players didn't have their moments where they struggled.
00:03:49But again, Brian, I don't know if you feel the same way.
00:03:51Like I think a lot of that really just came down to the tackles and it doesn't make it
00:03:55better or worse.
00:03:56This is how I feel.
00:03:57I think, yeah, I mean, they're the main problems and they've been the guys we've been concerned
00:04:02about and it was still Vidarian low and chooks a core for, but, um, I mean, Jalen Carter
00:04:08and, um, who's the other big guy, Jordan Davis up there, it's early, like they caused some
00:04:13havoc in the interior, but that's what they do.
00:04:16Like they're two elite players, but yeah, it's the tackles and it was, it was as bad
00:04:21as we were probably all were saying on Twitter yesterday, like 10 plus sacks.
00:04:26There was the period that, you know, the two minute that Drake may got a lot of attention
00:04:29where it just went sack, sack, incompletion, sack, just had zero chance.
00:04:33So yeah, yeah.
00:04:35It was mostly on the tackles I'd say.
00:04:37And that was the concern going into this and it just kind of laid out exactly like that.
00:04:41So Taylor, let me ask you this.
00:04:44How much of that was, because the Eagles defensive front is one of the best in football.
00:04:49How much of that was the Eagles defensive front versus like the Eagles defensive front
00:04:54ability versus the Patriots offensive line, lack of talent.
00:04:59I mean, it's gotta be a little bit of both, right?
00:05:01I mean the starting offensive line now the interior, I think did start a little bit,
00:05:05which was discouraging, but I think that kind of lends credence to the fact that the Eagles
00:05:09are just really good.
00:05:10Like they're going to give Mike and one who trouble they're going to give even city.
00:05:13So as much better as he's been this summer, they're going to give him trouble.
00:05:17But then on the edges, things obviously get a little more dicey.
00:05:20I don't think the Darien Lowe is terrible.
00:05:22I was saying that on Twitter yesterday.
00:05:24I don't think he's been 2023 bad.
00:05:26I think he's been like just barely fine, but he's also more of a backup.
00:05:30So I mean, I think it has to be, you know, the Eagles are dominant up front.
00:05:35That's why you saw everybody have a hard time.
00:05:38But also, you know, you've got an okay starter and shoots and then a guy who probably should
00:05:43just be the top backup and left tackle as your starter.
00:05:46So, you know, there's going to be some trouble and the second string offensive line, obviously
00:05:50outside of Calvin Anderson.
00:05:51There's just so many guys that are either young or don't really end up on 53 man Rosses
00:05:55very often.
00:05:56So that's what's going to happen.
00:05:57You put Drake may back there.
00:05:58He's going to get sack almost every time he takes a drop back in a two minute drill.
00:06:02Yeah.
00:06:03And I think Andrew Callahan had the sacrate.
00:06:04I don't remember if this was just Drake mayor or may and Berset combined, but either way,
00:06:08it's an alarming number over 20% for the day yesterday.
00:06:12And look, I, to answer my own question, I don't think every defensive line in the league
00:06:18could do to the Patriots with the Eagles did yesterday, but there are defensive lines that
00:06:23can, and we saw what happens when this line is really challenged, Mike.
00:06:29And in a game, I mean, that's going to be, you're not going to be able to move the ball
00:06:34if you're blocking.
00:06:35It's going to get, if it, if it looks like it did yesterday, it's going to be that much
00:06:39worse on Thursday when you can actually get to the quarterback and you can actually disrupt
00:06:42an entire play.
00:06:43And they don't just either blow something dead or they say, all right, run past the quarterback
00:06:47and let them throw anyway and stuff like that.
00:06:49So you're going to see those sacks, you know, sort of stack up and you, to the question
00:06:54of like, is it just the Eagles are that good?
00:06:57Yes.
00:06:58The Eagles front is that good.
00:06:59But the Patriots front is also that good.
00:07:00And they've, they've been struggling throughout the, you know, uh, the last couple of weeks
00:07:04as well with this sort of line combination.
00:07:06And I wrote about it or I put it on Twitter yesterday where the last time they put out
00:07:11a different offensive line combination for starters with, uh, Caden Wallace on the left
00:07:16chooks on the right.
00:07:17Yeah.
00:07:18Um, and then Leverett was in the middle because David Andrews was out, but with city.
00:07:21So an unwinnable on the inside and again, Wallace and Okorafor on the outside, they
00:07:27looked pretty good for those first few days of pads.
00:07:30Like the run game was running smooth.
00:07:32The quarterback seemed to have a little bit more time.
00:07:34And ever since then, they've taken Caden Wallace off that front line and they've added Darian
00:07:39low on the left side and Taylor to your point where Darian low is a better left tackle than
00:07:43he is a right tackle, but he's also a better backup than he is a starter.
00:07:47And so I wonder, there's sort of been this theory that they're splitting up the lines
00:07:52to kind of give Drake may some Caden Wallace so that, you know, it's, it's almost like
00:07:57there's two, there's a one a and one B offensive line instead of just your best front five
00:08:02going forward.
00:08:03And I wonder when they finally scrapped that and decide to put that, you know, give Caden
00:08:06Wallace a chance on the front line, cause it just has not been that good.
00:08:09And so are we going to see that, you know, are we still going to see this offensive line
00:08:14after yesterday or they're going to kind of change it up and go back to what they were
00:08:16doing, you know, late in July, because that's when they look the best.
00:08:19All right.
00:08:21Well, let me ask you guys this quickly.
00:08:22And I say quickly, knowing that that direction never actually applies on the show, uh, drawn
00:08:28Mayo a couple of weeks ago.
00:08:29And I think he's done this multiple times, gave the second preseason game is kind of
00:08:33the cutoff.
00:08:34He was asked, when do you want to have your best five established by, and that doesn't
00:08:38mean it's going to be the group for the whole season, but the way camp works, the reason
00:08:41you kind of heard yesterday, talked about the end of camp, even though they still have
00:08:45a week left before that, that commander's game is now you kind of start prepping for
00:08:51week one, there's going to be less of a point on general player development.
00:08:57I mean, you're going to work guys through the playbook and scout team stuff, but general
00:09:00player development is going to be less of an emphasis on, there'll still be an emphasis
00:09:03on evaluation, but it's going to be in a very different setting.
00:09:06You're in a scout team setting now it's less competitive.
00:09:09So you kind of, it makes sense that after this game, you want to know who you're starting
00:09:14five are going to be for week one.
00:09:16And then you'll adjust from there as you need to with how much time they've invested in
00:09:21this tackle pairing.
00:09:22Even if it looks ugly in the game, I don't know if they're going to make a change.
00:09:27I think this may be the week one line.
00:09:29Do you guys think this is the week one line, or do you think if it looks as bad in the
00:09:32game as it looked yesterday, we go out for the next practice, which will probably be
00:09:37Saturday or Sunday, and we see a different group up front, uh, might start with you.
00:09:43I'll go.
00:09:45I think they have to change it up.
00:09:46I really do.
00:09:47Uh, you think they have to, but do you think they will man is I guess reading it and watching
00:09:54it play out?
00:09:55No, I don't think they're going to do it.
00:09:56I think this is what they're sticking with, but I can't figure out why, because it hasn't
00:10:00been good.
00:10:01And that other five, which I just talked about was better and you saw it play out on the
00:10:06field.
00:10:07And so I don't think they're going to do it because I think they've cemented themselves
00:10:11into low right now, but should they change it?
00:10:14Absolutely.
00:10:15Taylor.
00:10:16Uh, it's tough.
00:10:17I tweeted yesterday.
00:10:18I think that Caden Wallace should get some opportunities at little tackle.
00:10:22Now I also say that knowing that it won't fix the entire offensive line.
00:10:26Caden Wallace is going to come with his growing pains the way I see it, but Darian Lowe's
00:10:30going to have his pretty bad losses as well.
00:10:32Even if they don't come as frequently as maybe last year, you know, they're going to come.
00:10:36We saw them in the first preseason game.
00:10:38So I don't really understand why you wouldn't put Caden Wallace out there and let him go
00:10:42through those growing pains, but be able to learn from them and improve versus Darian
00:10:46Lowe, who is not a part of your future plan in any way, unless you want to make him, you
00:10:50know, a backup for the next couple of years.
00:10:52I just think that's really odd.
00:10:54And then there's the fact that I don't want them to mess with the cohesiveness.
00:10:56Like they've had Darian Lowe there for so long.
00:10:59I also don't love the idea of messing with that chemistry and getting city.
00:11:02So someone else he's got to work next to.
00:11:04So it's just not an easy kind of, it's not an easy explanation.
00:11:08We did think that Darian Lowe is going to be a short-term thing.
00:11:11And like Daron Mayo kept saying, it's going to be a competition.
00:11:13It's going to be a competition.
00:11:15Hasn't felt that way.
00:11:16Kind of like quarterback where he said that, but it feels like we, outside of Drake Mays
00:11:20one drive in the preseason, I haven't really seen that come to fruition.
00:11:23So, you know, I'm very curious what their perspective is and what they see in Darian
00:11:27Lowe.
00:11:28Mayo said he's got great length and he's athletic and all that, but I mean, Caden Wallace has
00:11:33much higher physical upside.
00:11:35So, I mean, if you're going to go with the guy in your long-term plans and he's going
00:11:38to struggle.
00:11:39Sure.
00:11:40If he's so bad, you can put in Darian Lowe.
00:11:41And then you also want to mess with these young guys' heads.
00:11:43It's a confusing situation.
00:11:44It's layered.
00:11:45I don't think it's as simple as yeah.
00:11:46Caden Wallace fixes everything, but yeah, as an outsider, I'd like to see someone who's
00:11:51part of the plan there instead of someone who we know isn't really going to give you
00:11:54great production.
00:11:55So I'll say this on Wallace.
00:11:57This is just a theory I have.
00:11:58And I wrote this in my mailbag this morning on 98,000 sports hub.com.
00:12:01I don't necessarily agree with this, but this is my read on the situation.
00:12:06I think he's still with second unit.
00:12:07So when he's on that second unit, him and Calvin Anderson, they're going back and forth
00:12:11between left and right a lot.
00:12:14I think he's on the second unit because they want to cross train because they want him
00:12:17working at both spots.
00:12:18And it's less disruptive to do that with the second offense than the first offense, which
00:12:23I understand to a point, but what do you cross training for?
00:12:27You're cross training him to eventually take over one of your tackle spots, which right
00:12:30now don't look good enough.
00:12:31So like, let's go, right?
00:12:34Like, all right.
00:12:35He's cross-trained.
00:12:36Let's let's see him somewhere.
00:12:37Right or left.
00:12:38Probably left at this point with the top unit, Brian, do you think they change the group
00:12:41before week one or is it the Darien low and chooks a core for.
00:12:45I think they're going to keep it just because, you know, to your points, this has been the
00:12:49tackle pairing for like 14, almost two weeks now.
00:12:52Right.
00:12:53So the one thing that maybe would give me a little bit of hope that they might change
00:12:58it was after that Drake may two minute drill, I thought, you know, Gerard Mayo, Alex van
00:13:03Pelt and Evan Rothstein kind of huddled up and had a long conversation on the field right
00:13:07after that, you know, sack sack incompletion sack.
00:13:10And I wonder if, you know, that conversation was like, okay, this is bad.
00:13:14We need to make a change or something moving forward.
00:13:16But yeah, I would still expect come out to tomorrow the game and it's still the Darien
00:13:21low at left tackle.
00:13:22Just because again, it's been the group for so long making a change right now doesn't
00:13:27I wouldn't count on it.
00:13:29And I'll just throw these two in a couple of questions I think are worth addressing
00:13:32here talking about.
00:13:33We're coming after the coaching staff.
00:13:34I actually don't think this is primarily a coaching problem.
00:13:37It's not not like they're not playing while you look at the coaches to an extent, but
00:13:43it's more a personnel problem.
00:13:44It's the guys they have.
00:13:46This goes to Elliott Wolf and Matt girl in the front office.
00:13:49And I mean, I was at the front of this group that they didn't do enough to address tackling
00:13:53the off season.
00:13:54Troops of core four was not a real answer at left tackle.
00:13:57You know, I like Cain Wallace as a developmental right tackle and probably a step below the
00:14:02level of prospect this team need in that spot.
00:14:06So not, I don't want to say it's not an indictment on the coaching staff because obviously when
00:14:11the team's not playing well, it's never on a singular person, but I, I view this more
00:14:15as personnel thing than a, than a coach and the audience to sell the one and you guys
00:14:19can respond to either.
00:14:21Is there any reason they're not trying Lane Robinson at guard Michael and when to a tackle,
00:14:25I wouldn't be surprised if you see this at some point, like last year was what week six
00:14:28before they kicked Mike out to tackle.
00:14:30I think they won Michael and what is a much better fit for the scheme at guard.
00:14:37And I think they maybe worry about his fit at tackle and two and yes, they should have
00:14:41known that when they signed him and all that, I get it to, like you said, the interior hasn't
00:14:45been bad.
00:14:47And I wonder if there's a worry at this point of, okay, these three work in interior pressure
00:14:52is a lot more daunting for a young quarterback than edge pressure.
00:14:56We have a group in the middle.
00:14:57We like, let's just not touch that and see if we can figure out the tackles without disrupting
00:15:03the three we have.
00:15:04So I'll, I'll open up the floor to you guys.
00:15:06If you disagree with anything I just said, but I'm two common questions I've been getting
00:15:10about, about this whole offensive line situation.
00:15:13Taylor, you've nailed it on the head with on one who, since they re-signed him, that
00:15:18he is a great guard and he's a good tackle.
00:15:21And I think that's what they see.
00:15:23And I think that's why they've done what Alex just mentioned and kept that, you know, those
00:15:27three down the middle, the way they are and worry about the tackles from there.
00:15:30And I want to go back to another point you made, you know, on the last sort of roundabout
00:15:35here, Taylor, where it looked like a competition at tackle and they were rotating those guys
00:15:40in.
00:15:41It was what every four practices or something like that.
00:15:43We saw Anderson or two or four, whatever it was.
00:15:46Anderson got a couple of them.
00:15:47Wallace got a couple of Cora four was first and then, and then the Darien low comes out.
00:15:51And again, I, you tweeted it yesterday and I feel like I'm kind of using a lot of, you
00:15:55know, your stuff to, to, to make my points here, but you have a ritual take Mike.
00:15:59No, but you, it, it, I'm using it to, to piggyback onto a take is you tweeted the thing where
00:16:05everyone's bagging on Vardarian low and it's, it's, it shouldn't be this way because it's
00:16:09not just him.
00:16:10It's a trickle effect with the whole line.
00:16:12And I agree.
00:16:13And I'm not trying to just, you know, bag on the guy, but it looked good before low
00:16:20came into the picture.
00:16:22And then they've, they had those five come in and it hasn't been great.
00:16:26And yet they haven't rotated and kept the competition.
00:16:28So I wonder what they see in that five and it just, it continues to not make much sense
00:16:34to me at all.
00:16:35And so I don't know what the plan is, I guess.
00:16:38Yeah.
00:16:39I just think it's strange that that was, that was the end.
00:16:41I'll be all where.
00:16:42All right, let's rotate them through.
00:16:43We'll end on Vardarian low at left tackle and we'll keep it that way for two weeks.
00:16:47I'm, I'm kind of mind boggled and I don't see where this is going to end up going.
00:16:50And I think it is a personnel problem just as much as a coaching problem.
00:16:54I agree.
00:16:55Alex.
00:16:56Any other offensive line thoughts?
00:16:57Taylor, go ahead.
00:16:58Yeah.
00:16:59So I disagree on the off season part because one, this wasn't a good free agency period
00:17:03for tackles.
00:17:04Like this wasn't last year where I didn't love the fits either because I felt like there
00:17:08were a lot of guys who were going to get overpaid.
00:17:09There were a lot of zone blockers, guys who weren't very good in past protection for the
00:17:12most part.
00:17:13I was proven right.
00:17:14Like John Taylor's fine for the chiefs, but you know, I think the rest of those guys weren't
00:17:18really a great fit for the Patriots.
00:17:20Now this year I thought shoots was one of the better options considering he's a young
00:17:24guy.
00:17:25Jonah Williams.
00:17:26If you just want to look at the numbers, he and Jonah Williams were comparable last season.
00:17:29It was not this massive divide shoots was actually better when you look at run blocking.
00:17:33Jonah Williams also is still a right tackle now that he's with the Cardinals.
00:17:37So I don't think they had many options in free agency, the draft.
00:17:40I think we can maybe debate, they could have taken a tackle instead of Jalen Polk, but
00:17:43then we're having the conversation of, Oh my God, all they have is DeMario Douglas is
00:17:47a consistent receiver because Jalen Polk has been the only other guy who's really given
00:17:51the offense juice on a consistent basis.
00:17:54So then it's just kind of the same conversation, but flipped around.
00:17:56And I don't think Caden Wallace is the problem.
00:17:58I think Caden Wallace is more than athletic enough to play left tackle.
00:18:01It's just going to be about obviously like he's a young guy.
00:18:03You got to bring them up to the speed with the NFL.
00:18:06So I think the way they address it in the offseason was fine.
00:18:08I just don't think this was a good offseason to need a tackle and we saw that.
00:18:13And in terms of moving Mike and when you were around, my hesitation to moving him to guard
00:18:16at first was the fact that guards pull a ton in Alex Dan Pilsky.
00:18:21And I don't really like Mike when we have to move around.
00:18:23I like him being able to down block, but now he's back at guard.
00:18:26I'm like, I don't want him to move anymore because shoots has played right tackle.
00:18:30We've seen years of it.
00:18:31He's an NFL starter.
00:18:33He's a replaceable starter.
00:18:34He's not a guy that you have in your plans for four years, but he's a guy who's a pretty
00:18:38good stopgap.
00:18:39Left tackle was an experiment.
00:18:40Didn't work.
00:18:41Now he's back at the right.
00:18:42So from city, so down, you have guys who are comfortable where they are and have a history
00:18:46there.
00:18:47Really left tackles that one spot.
00:18:48You really need to get figured out.
00:18:49Maybe they just say, Hey, Darian Lowe's got NFL experience.
00:18:52Scott Peters can coach him up enough that he's not going to be a massive liability.
00:18:55And again, we've seen that he hasn't been as bad as he was last year.
00:18:59Preseason had some very ugly reps.
00:19:01There were three losses where you're like, yeah, that's what you expect out of a Darian
00:19:04Lowe.
00:19:05It's going to be ugly.
00:19:06But then he had somewhere you're like, all right, yeah, that's fine.
00:19:07You can get away with that.
00:19:08So I'm honestly not sure how much more of the team could have done outside of maybe
00:19:12being more aggressive in the draft attack.
00:19:14Although we know they've tried to reportedly tried to trade up for Tyler Guyton.
00:19:18I don't know how they saw the other guys as fits because we didn't really hear about those
00:19:21fits other than like Blake Fisher.
00:19:23So yeah, I think they did the best they could.
00:19:25I just think it's really hard to find good offensive lineman in the NFL.
00:19:28It's a conversation that I feel like we always tiptoe around where it's like, oh, my God,
00:19:32the lines hurt.
00:19:33We're screwed with this team sucks like no, most teams don't have very good offensive
00:19:37lines because they don't have a lot of time to practice and there's not a lot of kids
00:19:40who play offensive line.
00:19:41So they're not really trickling up to the NFL level in terms of like these really great
00:19:44athletes.
00:19:45And if one or two of your guys go down, yeah, your offensive line is going to struggle.
00:19:49So you know, I just wanted to kind of put those out there because I feel like the offensive
00:19:52line conversation like these are wide receivers when they grow on trees.
00:19:55It's very, very hard to put a good quality offensive line together.
00:19:59It's going to take years of probably adding resources.
00:20:02They made the right steps, I think next year is when I think they're going to be in position
00:20:06to maybe push themselves and get that receiver and get that tackle where this offense is
00:20:10really competitive.
00:20:11Yes.
00:20:12Yeah, go ahead, right?
00:20:15With the coaching staff and even the front office, do you think there could be like a
00:20:21disconnect there because they draft Caden Wallace and Elliot Wolf tells us immediately
00:20:25he's he's a left like he can play left tackle and then all off season we hear draft and
00:20:30develop.
00:20:31We're going to play the young guys, right?
00:20:32That's the Packer way.
00:20:34That's the Elliot Wolf way.
00:20:35He even tells us chooks a core for it can start at left tackle and now we get out here
00:20:40and neither of these guys are playing right tackle.
00:20:42So do you think there maybe could be a disconnect there or they just got out here and everyone's
00:20:47in now agreement that need OK, neither of these guys can start at left tackle immediately.
00:20:52Do you think?
00:20:54Anything there or I mean, it can be both.
00:20:56Yeah, I think there probably is an element to both where Elliot Wolf had a vision and
00:21:01the vision maybe isn't playing out the way he expected it to and the coaches have to
00:21:05make a choice.
00:21:06Do you kind of force it and go with the plan and hope it all comes together?
00:21:10Or do you adjust on the fly?
00:21:12And I think this probably falls into adjusting on the fly.
00:21:15So.
00:21:16Yeah, wasn't he Wallace and Scott Peters big?
00:21:22That's what we heard that he he liked Hayden Wallace and like he and Alex Dan Pelt signed
00:21:25off on it.
00:21:26Yeah.
00:21:27I mean, that's possible to that.
00:21:28It just I mean, and that's where that kind of just on the fly thing.
00:21:31Maybe they all thought he could play left tackle and they got out like I.
00:21:34I do think you have to give a team credit and this is something that they did the last
00:21:37few years.
00:21:38They killed me.
00:21:39Something didn't work and they would just bang their heads against the wall hoping it
00:21:42would just eventually like the the switch would flip and it never did.
00:21:48And if they identified that it wasn't going to work and they adjusted away from it, I
00:21:52do give him credit for that.
00:21:54The problem is their plan A was more realistically a plan B. So what they're adjusting to now
00:21:59is a little scary and that goes back to the overall personnel of it of even if you like
00:22:04like Hayden Wallace's left tackle, understanding the risk that comes with trying to have a
00:22:08player make that kind of move and being ready for it.
00:22:12That's where my where I would hesitate and tailor to your point.
00:22:15Like they, you know, I get it was a tough season to have linemen.
00:22:18I still might have added Jonah Williams just because he's experienced.
00:22:23Also what do you want to come?
00:22:24What do you want to come here?
00:22:25We have to put that into the equation.
00:22:26Tyron Smith.
00:22:27Everyone throw a bag.
00:22:28Yeah.
00:22:29Tyron Smith.
00:22:30Jonah Williams.
00:22:31Go to the Cardinals though.
00:22:32Like yeah.
00:22:33Arizona.
00:22:34Arizona has on the rise, but he's got a quarterback where you know what you got it.
00:22:38I also don't think Arizona has income tax.
00:22:40Oh, that's true.
00:22:41They do.
00:22:42It's definitely lower than it is here.
00:22:43I don't know what I'm saying.
00:22:44I don't know how that stuff works.
00:22:45I, this whole thing is such a, a strange conversation because it's like you, you kind of told the
00:22:52line between this has to be a slow rebuild and you have to let it play out and fans want
00:22:58to see the Patriots win immediately because they're so used to it and they've already
00:23:01gone through.
00:23:02This is like the second rebuild since, you know, the Brady years.
00:23:05And so it's like, all right, now it's time to ramp it up and to, with a disconnect between,
00:23:11you know, the front office and the coaching staff, I think it disconnect could be the
00:23:16right word right now, but it's also just growing pains because it is year one of a brand new
00:23:22sort of a brand new operation here, right?
00:23:26Belichick was involved in everything for so long and everything ran through him.
00:23:30And now it's like, they just kind of feel, you kind of have to feel it out.
00:23:33And so people are going to be super disappointed, including myself with the offensive line yesterday.
00:23:38It was a train wreck.
00:23:39There's no reason to tiptoe around that.
00:23:41And it could be really ugly this year and they might have to, you know, frankly eat
00:23:45another season.
00:23:46And I've said it for, you know, for the last couple of weeks where this is going to be
00:23:49a 2025 team.
00:23:50They need to use this year, figure out what they have, figure out what they don't have.
00:23:54Let Drake may developed, develop, and then sort of see what's going on next year.
00:24:00Prove who Drake may is to Taylor's point where players don't want to come here.
00:24:03Maybe you see that Drake may can be pretty good.
00:24:06And then next year you can land your, your big fish in the wide receiver thing.
00:24:09And maybe as far as Jonah Williams or a Tyron Smith, right?
00:24:13Tyron Smith or a guy of his caliber might want to come here next season because, oh,
00:24:17this is Houston Texans desk and not that the Patriots are going to make the postseason
00:24:21this year, but they're going to see that there's building blocks in place and I can be that
00:24:25next one to take them to that next level.
00:24:27So it's tough to, to have to wait another year, but I think that's just kind of where
00:24:32we are at this point.
00:24:33This, they're not going to probably be a very good team this year, and it's probably going
00:24:35to start from the inside out.
00:24:37And just to finish my point on the tackles, I get that there maybe wasn't a ton in a free
00:24:40agency, but I would've, you know, I, I more aggressive in the draft.
00:24:44I know they were aggressive, but more aggressive in the draft and it to Taylor's point earlier,
00:24:48if they sacrifice pull up for a tackle, I think it's better for Drake may's development.
00:24:52If he has time to throw to guys that aren't open than if he has no time to throw to guys
00:24:56who are.
00:24:57I mean, that's just my philosophy.
00:24:58Also, Arizona does have an income tax.
00:24:59It's two and a half flat rate.
00:25:01Massachusetts rate starts at five and goes up.
00:25:03So there is an income tax in Arizona, but it's half or less than what it is in Massachusetts.
00:25:08A tough part about being a rebuilding team though, right?
00:25:11With so many holes is what do you do?
00:25:13What do you feel first?
00:25:14Is it, is it right?
00:25:15Is it wide receiver?
00:25:16And if they flipped it right and say there was time, but everybody was, everybody was,
00:25:22you know, mashed in coverage and couldn't get open.
00:25:24We just be having an opposite conversation right now.
00:25:27So it's just, again, it's something that you kind of going to have to have patience with
00:25:30here.
00:25:31All right.
00:25:32We've done half an hour on the in the chat real quick because media being impatient one,
00:25:35I think fans and media are both very impatient, but I think one disconnect between maybe the
00:25:40team and us outsiders is the team seems like they are putting all these veterans in position
00:25:45to earn these spots.
00:25:46And I think just have like a stable offense because obviously that's, what's most fair
00:25:50the entire team as fans or, and as media, you don't really want to have to put up with
00:25:55another season where you have these guys who are on one year deals, maybe not doing as
00:25:59much because if you have Drake may as a starter, Caden Wallace is a starter, Jalen Polk is
00:26:04a starter.
00:26:05Like we mentioned, the growing pains are going to happen.
00:26:07People are going to have a lot more patience with a rookie than they will with a veteran
00:26:10who was either not doing his job well enough or doing it just barely well enough.
00:26:14And the team still isn't doing very well.
00:26:16So I just want to say that one part where I think that a lot of the, where we disagree
00:26:21with the coaching staff is I think they just want a functional team, which is why I don't
00:26:24think Drake may should be the week one starter.
00:26:26I don't necessarily mind very low at the top left tackle early on.
00:26:30I just don't understand why we haven't seen it be more competitive and see guys really
00:26:34mix in.
00:26:35So we can see side by side how these guys compare.
00:26:38All right.
00:26:39We've got half an hour talking about the offensive line.
00:26:40Let's hear from our friends at remind me game time, game time.
00:26:45I didn't know what we were doing first.
00:26:46I know game time is a sponsor.
00:26:47Let's hear from our friends at game time and then we'll talk about the quarterbacks.
00:26:53Am I playing it?
00:26:55I don't have it.
00:26:56Oh, is this one you have to read?
00:26:57Game time is the authorized ticket mark.
00:26:58No, there's a video.
00:26:59There's a video.
00:27:00Hold on.
00:27:01I don't know where it is.
00:27:02I got it.
00:27:03It's the dog days of summer here in Boston, which means it's time to get to some games
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01:01:07another squib kick that I thought was going to do the same thing, but a scrum broke out,
01:01:13which to me tells me that Eagles return team was frustrated by what was going on.
01:01:17So is that more about the Eagles not being ready for the kickoff?
01:01:20Is that about the Patriots?
01:01:21Maybe having figured something out?
01:01:23Is it both?
01:01:24Again, this thing's so new.
01:01:25It's to me, it's impossible to say you guys maybe feel differently, but I chalk it up.
01:01:33Patriots kickoff team was, was good yesterday.
01:01:34Like that.
01:01:35I feel like I can say.
01:01:37Yeah, definitely.
01:01:38The Rayquan McMillan like lit someone up on that fumble and then Jamichael Hasey returned
01:01:42it.
01:01:43Um, they had the one downed at the one, two yard line was impressive because it was one
01:01:47of those kind of funky, it wasn't the ball flat on the tee, but it kind of had that same
01:01:52like ball path where it was a little lower and it had a little curve.
01:01:56So it made him field it in a funky way.
01:01:58And then, yeah, the scrum, which looked like an Eagles guy hit Josh Joshua Uche late.
01:02:02So maybe some frustration there, but yeah, that was a impressive, again, it was only
01:02:07five, six attempts there, but it was, uh, impressive from the kickoff coverage team
01:02:10there.
01:02:11And there was some big hits by the Patriots in their return game, some blocks to highlight
01:02:14that.
01:02:15Mike, go ahead.
01:02:16Leaving special teams to Patriots beat as we normally do.
01:02:18I'll just add that.
01:02:19Uh, it was nice to see Isaiah Bolden get some reps as a kicker Turner.
01:02:23Um, I look forward to that because of again, how good I feel like I've said this a ton,
01:02:27but because of how good he was in college, um, I think that getting him in the mix there
01:02:32is something that I personally, I think I would rather Bolden as a, again, we haven't
01:02:37seen it and Jalen Rager has been great.
01:02:39And I think you mentioned it to Alex where he's been probably their best kick returner,
01:02:42but I like Bolden's upside on defense as much as I are better than I like riggers upside
01:02:48on offense.
01:02:49So if Bolden could be serviceable kick returner and, you know, bring that, that, I guess magic
01:02:52back, I look forward to see him getting some real reps there eventually, uh, real quick
01:02:57on this comment, who gives a damn about special teams?
01:02:59We suck offensive.
01:03:00We, uh, the word with the words in football, we have the worst.
01:03:03Wine in NFL history.
01:03:04And you're talking about special teams.
01:03:05One, if you don't know why we're talking about special teams, congratulations for finding
01:03:08Patriots beat for the first time ever, uh, two, we don't have the worst wine in history.
01:03:12Drew Bledsoe is doing a fantastic job out there at double back.
01:03:15So quick thoughts on that.
01:03:17And we have Taylor back, which is great.
01:03:19So we did defense and special teams kind of real quick there.
01:03:23Thoughts on, I guess we'll go defense first.
01:03:25Taylor, if you have a thought on the defense from yesterday.
01:03:26Yeah, I know you guys kind of covered it, but Mike and I were locked in on the offense
01:03:30as everyone wants to talk about, but yeah, Jabril peppers banging down there, Lane Johnson
01:03:34for an offensive lineman to say that a safety was making an impact.
01:03:38Like that tells you a lot, uh, Devon gotcha.
01:03:40Also from everything I've heard was just a monster in the middle in that Patriots video
01:03:44that they put on Twitter.
01:03:45You could also see it.
01:03:46There was a play that he made, uh, for a tackle.
01:03:47So again, I don't want to, you know, act like I was watching the defense all the time.
01:03:51I wasn't.
01:03:52Uh, also the fact that AJ Brown shouted out Christian Gonzalez and said, that was the
01:03:55guy I thought was the best DB in that draft class.
01:03:58And, uh, he was competitive against him.
01:04:00I think one of the, the only play that I saw Gonzalez give up was that slant in the red
01:04:04zone where it's like, yeah, AJ Brown on a red zone slant.
01:04:06He's going to win that like 75% of the time he's massive and he's an elite player.
01:04:10Uh, but yeah, those are, I guess the standouts for me, special teams, Rayquan McMillan and
01:04:15Jay, uh, Michael hasty, like kill the hell out of it.
01:04:18Yeah.
01:04:19He's a return game.
01:04:20Yeah.
01:04:21Like Rayquan's, that was another one in the video.
01:04:22The Patriots had that ended in a fumble that, uh, hasty, I think actually recovered for
01:04:26what would have been a touchdown.
01:04:27Yeah.
01:04:28And he had a seed blocker on one return and buried somebody.
01:04:30So those were a couple that stood out for me.
01:04:32And I'll just clear this up.
01:04:33I think I misspoke there.
01:04:34And I said that the Eagles returner fielded the ball with his foot out of bounds.
01:04:37It was more like his momentum.
01:04:39He picked it up right near the sideline.
01:04:41Yeah.
01:04:42He was in bounds, but his momentum was carrying him and he stepped out of bounds, but like
01:04:46he didn't realize, try to come back in.
01:04:47Um, it was a tough ball to field basically.
01:04:49And the reason that, that he fielded and some people say, why didn't he let it go out of
01:04:54bounds the way I actually don't remember who, who was on that kickoff.
01:04:57It was Rylander slide, right?
01:04:58Maybe you remember, um, that would be good to know for the kick about whoever kicked it.
01:05:04Um, if the, so it's a touchback.
01:05:07If the ball lands in the end zone and rolls out of bounds or goes over the end zone, if
01:05:13the ball lay that's a 30 yard touchback, if the ball lands in the landing zone, makes
01:05:20it to the end zone untouched, then it's a 20 yard touchback.
01:05:24So if you're not positive, that ball is going to go out of bounds.
01:05:28You want to pick it up?
01:05:29Cause you're going to cost your team 10 yards.
01:05:30And it was one of those, it probably wasn't going to roll out of bounds.
01:05:33It needed to be fielded, but it was right next to the sideline and the momentum in
01:05:38picking the ball up.
01:05:39Like he picked it up and then his next step, he was out of bounds cause he had
01:05:42a really sprint to get to it.
01:05:45And that's what happened.
01:05:46So just clarifying that I don't believe they changed.
01:05:49I know the rule you're talking about there.
01:05:51Um, is that time on gummy or Randall Cobb who made that player?
01:05:53Like he'd lied down out of bounds and then reached out and touched the ball.
01:05:58Uh, it was time Montgomery.
01:05:59I believe that rule is still in place.
01:06:02We actually had the refs yesterday.
01:06:03Could I ask them?
01:06:04Um, and I wanted to close with that before we wrap it up here.
01:06:08Uh, cause we did, I don't know.
01:06:10Oh, you guys didn't.
01:06:10Cause you're getting ready for your, your, your big flag football game.
01:06:13Um, with Sean Smith, who's a head referee in the NFL, a crew chief in the NFL gave
01:06:19the media presentation on basically some of the rule changes, most of what
01:06:22he told us with the kickoff, I think is already out there.
01:06:24The one thing that, that he said that actually, Brian, you were there for this.
01:06:28Uh, the one thing he said that we had talked about on Patriots beat the other
01:06:31day was they may continue to tweak the kickoff rule into the regular season.
01:06:35So that's just something to be aware of.
01:06:36If they notice they miss something or there's a glaring loophole, they need to fill.
01:06:40The other thing he said was he clarified the hip drop tackle rule, which I thought.
01:06:45Added some important information.
01:06:46Cause if you remember, we did a bunch of shows when they pass that, like,
01:06:49what the hell are they doing?
01:06:51This is terrible.
01:06:52And he talked about, there's, there's three things that need to happen for a
01:06:57tackle to be a penalty under the hip drop rule.
01:06:59So it's wrap at the waist, um, position your body, like move yourself to position
01:07:08yourself behind the ball carrier.
01:07:10And then they call it unweight yourself, which is basically go limp.
01:07:13And when you do that, that's when you get these plays where guys fall on
01:07:16the back of, of ball carriers legs.
01:07:18And that's where the injuries happen.
01:07:19And the term he used was it has to be clear and complete basically
01:07:24meaning all three elements have to be present for the flag to be thrown.
01:07:29So wrapping guy up around the waist and pulling them down.
01:07:32That's not a clear and complete hip drop tackle.
01:07:35That's just one of the three.
01:07:36The other thing he mentioned, and this is what really stood out to me was they,
01:07:42they can find players for hip drop tackles, even if they weren't called in the game.
01:07:48And that to me have, they've done this before with different rules.
01:07:53Remember a couple of years ago, the lowering the helmet thing that everybody
01:07:55thought was going to ruin the game.
01:07:57That's how they're going to police this.
01:07:59They're not going to call it in the game unless it's egregious, but they're
01:08:02going to go back and look at the film and find guys who are doing
01:08:06it more than they want it done.
01:08:08And that's how it's going to be policed.
01:08:09And if they are going to enforce this, that's how you do without
01:08:13letting it impact the game too much.
01:08:14So that was my takeaway.
01:08:16Like, I'm not saying that's definitely what they're doing, but reading
01:08:18between the lines of what he said.
01:08:19That's kind of the vibe I got that unless it's egregious, it won't be
01:08:22called, but you might hear from the league.
01:08:25I'm okay with that.
01:08:26That's a good way to police it too.
01:08:27Like you said, because again, it doesn't impact, it doesn't impact
01:08:31your team as rough as much, right?
01:08:32If there's a fluky one that again, there may be not all three now until
01:08:36the Patriots lose a game because it's not called and then the fine comes out.
01:08:40That's a good point.
01:08:41I didn't think of it that way.
01:08:42If it's, if it's the reverse, but if, again, if you're, you know, it's,
01:08:45it's a fourth down in a one score game and you, you can't really tell
01:08:49when they throw the flag anyway, it's like, Oh, what the hell?
01:08:51But then if you just find the guy and he knows what to do and what not to do
01:08:54later, I guess that, that makes a little bit more sense and it helps not ruin
01:08:57the fan experience, but still, I guess, take a, uh, an unsafe play out of the game.
01:09:03Any thoughts from you guys on the rule changes?
01:09:06Not really.
01:09:08All right.
01:09:09Well, and there we go.
01:09:10That'll do it for this crossover.
01:09:11That's a show Patriots daily and Patriots beat again.
01:09:14Thank we're up to like two, 2000 people watching right now.
01:09:16So thanks to everybody across all the streams.
01:09:19I know none of you see that number individually.
01:09:20I have it across YouTube and all our different individual Twitter accounts.
01:09:24So thanks.
01:09:25Everybody got up, tuned in this morning.
01:09:27Thanks to you guys for getting up and doing the show.
01:09:29Cause I couldn't do it yesterday.
01:09:31Um, after the, the, the football game, um, the next show,
01:09:34we wouldn't have been able to either.
01:09:36That's true.
01:09:36Yeah, it would have been hard.
01:09:37Oh, we literally wouldn't have been able to.
01:09:38You're right.
01:09:39I don't have anybody to set it up.
01:09:40Um, so that all being said, um, the next shows Taylor, do you
01:09:46have anything tomorrow?
01:09:47Pre-game pregame show?
01:09:50I think so.
01:09:52There'll be a Patriots daily pregame with, with Mike and Taylor from the stadium.
01:09:56Me and Brian will be back, uh, some point on Friday, uh, probably
01:10:00going to be mid afternoon ish.
01:10:02I'm on the hub Friday morning.
01:10:03So Brian, we'll talk about that.
01:10:05Um, in the meantime, Mike and Taylor, you can read them on CLNS media.com.
01:10:08Brian on pads, pulpit.com.
01:10:10You can read me on 98, five, the sports hub.com.
01:10:13Thanks so much everybody for tuning in.
01:10:14Enjoy the game tomorrow.
01:10:15Then we'll talk to you post game.
01:10:18Taylor, you want to say your thing?
01:10:20Take care of yourselves.
01:10:21Take care of each other.
01:10:23We'll see you next time.
01:10:24There we go.