#ptiprotest #aliamingandapur #imrankhnalatest #bushrabibi #islamabad #aliamingandapur #mohsinnaqvi #pmlngovt #sheikhwaqasakram #MohammadMalick
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Sheikh Waqas Akram PTI
- Muhammad Malick (Senior Analyst)
- Mohammad Zubair (Former Governor Sindh)
PTI claims martyrdom of Hundreds of Workers, Government Denies it | Sheikh Waqas Akram's Reaction
"Bushra Bibi has no knowledge of politics..." - Muhammad Zubair
"Ali Amin sab se pehlay gaari mein baith kar chalay gaye..." Mohammad Malick
"Pakistani Media ko tou Khamosh Kara Sakte Hain Foreign Media ko Kaise Roke Gay"Sheikh Waqas Akram's
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Sheikh Waqas Akram PTI
- Muhammad Malick (Senior Analyst)
- Mohammad Zubair (Former Governor Sindh)
PTI claims martyrdom of Hundreds of Workers, Government Denies it | Sheikh Waqas Akram's Reaction
"Bushra Bibi has no knowledge of politics..." - Muhammad Zubair
"Ali Amin sab se pehlay gaari mein baith kar chalay gaye..." Mohammad Malick
"Pakistani Media ko tou Khamosh Kara Sakte Hain Foreign Media ko Kaise Roke Gay"Sheikh Waqas Akram's
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, dear viewers, you are watching the program with Kashif Abbasi.
00:16Yesterday's protest was over.
00:18Today, Ali Amin Gandapur spoke to the media.
00:21Today, Mohsin Naqvi also spoke to the media.
00:23The first question that arose was that how many people will go against the law and justice?
00:28Ali Amin Gandapur gave a big number in his speech at the press conference.
00:34What did Ali Amin say?
00:36A lot of people have been martyred.
00:39A lot of people have been shot.
00:42And the rest of the people are also being attacked.
00:44And the merchants are also being attacked.
00:46So this is a big number that Ali Amin Gandapur gave.
00:51Mohsin Naqvi says that the name of anyone, any footage of firing or name should be told.
00:57He is completely against the government's counter.
01:01Listen to what he says.
01:02Since they ran away, the propaganda has started that there are 33 corpses in one hospital.
01:07I don't know how many corpses are in one hospital.
01:09Every person had a camera in his hand.
01:11If the bullet was being fired, they would have shot him all over the world.
01:15He was making footage in every mobile phone.
01:17Tell me the footage of the firing.
01:19Tell me something.
01:20So this is a counterclaim of the government.
01:24Now I think that justice is compiling the list.
01:28If they compile the list, they will give it to us too.
01:31We also verify that how long the list is, how many people are in it, who were shot and where they ran.
01:40So we will keep an eye on this and keep telling you.
01:43On the other hand, another video passed through my eyes.
01:46The people who came to protest in Islamabad, you saw broken cars.
01:51When the footages were made the next morning, all these cars were broken.
01:56All their mirrors were broken.
01:58Looking at this footage, it seems that this is a show of aggression.
02:10This is a change.
02:11States do not take revenge.
02:13Because you came to protest.
02:15Because you left the cars here.
02:17That's why we will break all these cars.
02:19It is the state's job to protect people's property.
02:25Only if you have a problem with their protest.
02:28Who gave you the right to harm people's property?
02:33Such a big press conference was held today by the IG of Islamabad and the Chief Commissioner.
02:38I am surprised that no one took this answer.
02:41Who are you to break people's cars?
02:43Who broke it?
02:44Take out the footages of that too.
02:45And the people who have done this, it is enough.
02:48Because we are a state, we are very naughty.
02:51If we are very naughty, then we will break your property.
02:53We will harm you.
02:54There is no one to stop us.
02:55This method is wrong.
02:57You think that some protest is going wrong.
03:00You stop it.
03:02As a state, you say that we will not let them protest.
03:05No one gave you the right to go further than that.
03:08This is also a different matter.
03:10When I left the house today, there was a flag march of the police.
03:13You scare people.
03:15You scare the people of your city, your country.
03:18That we will now take hundreds of police and come out on the streets.
03:21I get very worried when I hear these things.
03:24Anyway, we have Sheikh Waqas Akram with us.
03:26Let's talk to him.
03:27What is the position of justice?
03:28Assalamu alaikum Sheikh Waqas Akram.
03:30Wa alaikum salam Kashif bhai.
03:32Sheikh sahib, there are a lot of mixed comments coming in.
03:35Mohsin Raqqi sahab said in a press conference that
03:38give some footage of firing.
03:40Give the name of a person etc.
03:42Ali Ameen Gandapur sahib has given a big figure of hundreds.
03:49Is your number still the same?
03:52That a lot of people lost their lives.
03:55What do you think about the protest in Islamabad yesterday?
04:03Yes, a lot of people were martyred.
04:06Their number is going up from hundreds to hundreds.
04:14There are still reports.
04:16But the reports are such that
04:19when bullets were being fired at the government,
04:28the children and youths who were present at Imran Khan's call
04:34were falling and injured.
04:37The workers were trying to treat their wounds.
04:41All the footage is available on social media.
04:45Our people have it.
04:47The children who were martyred have it.
04:50And to say that on TV,
04:54the minister of interest,
04:56who is basically the one who gave the order,
05:02who got everything done,
05:04it is very strange and strange
05:08that this is happening on the social media of the whole world.
05:12If it is not visible,
05:13then it is not visible only to Mohsin Naqvi.
05:15And in many of our channels...
05:17Sir, my videos are still not being downloaded.
05:20I am making a request,
05:22and you should do the same,
05:24to close the firewall.
05:26Your job is done.
05:28The government,
05:29the powerful people who make these decisions,
05:33now open the entire internet
05:35so that the videos can be downloaded.
05:37People can go on the internet and check what is happening.
05:41Kashif Bhai, we also have information
05:44that the doctors in the polyclinic in FIMS,
05:48they have been told not to give any records.
05:51Some of our lawyers went there today
05:53to get records.
05:55No, their records were not given to them.
05:58I have also received information
06:00that a person named Adrish
06:02was shot in the intestine.
06:04His intestine was removed and put in a bag.
06:07When one of our leaders tweeted about it,
06:11the doctors told him
06:13to go to the hospital,
06:15but they are not giving him the records
06:17of what happened to him there.
06:19So, these government doctors,
06:21who are under the government...
06:23Sir, you are saying you are not getting the records.
06:25We would like you to compile it.
06:27I think Tariq Khan is in the process of compiling.
06:31Look, there is no point in hiding it.
06:34Dead bodies are not hidden.
06:36Remember one thing.
06:38There is a funeral in Abbottabad.
06:40Abdul Qadir's funeral took place yesterday at 4pm.
06:43The whole city was there.
06:45There was a funeral in Balochistan.
06:47Two districts came and read it.
06:49Wherever the funeral will take place,
06:51people will be there.
06:53So, how many funerals can you stop?
06:55Because their footage will come tomorrow.
06:57There will be poor people there.
06:59They are being threatened.
07:02Some people will keep quiet.
07:04They will keep quiet today
07:06and will speak tomorrow.
07:08This Islamabad massacre,
07:10which was designed by Mohsin Naqvi...
07:12What should I say about the design?
07:14He had given a threat.
07:16Two days ago, the Minister of Internal Affairs
07:18said that bullets will be fired.
07:20Bullet to bullet. Do you remember?
07:22Yes, he said, let them fire for five minutes.
07:24No one will survive.
07:26But I would still like you to send me the footage.
07:28Because we have been trying all day.
07:30Sir, I will send it.
07:32There will be footage of dead bodies.
07:34Just like the firing that he said.
07:36Send us the firewall.
07:38It will be easier for us to see it.
07:40Of course, sir. We will send it.
07:42Because this thing cannot be hidden.
07:44Sir, if it is there...
07:46I believe one thing.
07:48In today's time, it is 2024.
07:50It is not difficult to hide anything in 2024.
07:52Because every person has a phone.
07:54There is a camera in that phone.
07:56That camera records everything.
07:58The international media was there.
08:00They will silence your channel.
08:02What will they do with the international media?
08:04They were there in March.
08:06Look, sir, the thing is...
08:08Our people reached here on Khan's call.
08:10The majority of the people were from KPK.
08:12There was a lot of difference.
08:14There was a lot of violence in Punjab.
08:16People could not reach.
08:18Some must have opted.
08:20Some could not reach.
08:22Some caravans also reached.
08:24The thing is, they were ready for tear gas.
08:26It happens on protesters.
08:28Although it should not happen.
08:30They were ready for rubber bullets.
08:32They were ready for stun grenades.
08:34But they will shoot directly.
08:36We did not bring the kids here
08:38to kill people.
08:40We came to investigate.
08:42The government has a very clear view on this.
08:44I will say this again, sir.
08:46Give a video of shooting.
08:48Because Mohsin Nagvi did not just say
08:50to tell the name.
08:52He said, tell us a video.
08:54He clearly refused.
08:56We have not fired a bullet.
08:58Our people have pistols.
09:00Give us a video of firing a bullet.
09:02I am sure you have it.
09:04Send it to us.
09:06Sir, you tell me.
09:08The videos will come.
09:10The videos do not hide.
09:12If there are more than 100 people
09:14and thousands of people are injured
09:16by bullet wounds, remember this.
09:18You are right.
09:20It is someone's right to protest.
09:22I was listening to the Chief Commissioner.
09:24Who gave him the authority
09:26to decide
09:28that whoever is coming to protest
09:30is a terrorist, is evil.
09:32Who are you to decide that?
09:34I went here yesterday.
09:36I went here
09:38in your presence.
09:40I went here
09:42in your presence.
09:44I went close to Ali Ameen's car.
09:46I saw that there were people there
09:48and young people.
09:50You talked about Punjab.
09:52The second issue is
09:54that people stopped me
09:56again and again.
09:58I will ask you a question.
10:00Where was your other leadership?
10:02Who was seen there?
10:04Where were the other people
10:06sitting in the press conferences?
10:08The leaders of the opposition
10:10or the secretary generals
10:12or party chairmen
10:14or different office bearers?
10:16People were asking
10:18the same question.
10:20The thing is that
10:22those who were not there
10:24have nothing to do with us.
10:26There were only a few people
10:28who were responsible for
10:30Mr. Khan and the party.
10:32I was responsible for
10:34national and international media
10:36and their press conferences.
10:38Maybe it was my responsibility
10:40that I was stopped by the party.
10:42But I still couldn't stay.
10:44I still sent caravans under
10:46the name of Mr. Khan.
10:48It took me two days
10:50to reach Islamabad.
10:52It took me two days
10:54to reach Islamabad.
10:56It took me two days
10:58to reach Islamabad.
11:00Did you feel that
11:02the leadership of the party
11:04was missing?
11:06If you had been arrested
11:08by the MNA,
11:10if you had been arrested
11:12by the Senator,
11:14would you have been arrested?
11:16The leadership of the party
11:18was missing in this final call.
11:20The party did not tell anyone
11:22that it would deal with
11:24the issue.
11:26The party did not tell anyone
11:28that it would deal with
11:30the issue.
11:32The party did not tell anyone
11:34that it would deal with
11:36the issue.
11:38But no one was allowed
11:40to do this.
11:42But no one was allowed
11:44to do this.
11:46We are just looking at the
11:48people's misery and
11:50people's misery.
11:52Some have been deported
11:54to Luchistan,
11:56some to Punjab.
11:58We are looking at the
12:00crucial time of the
12:02cruel and oppressive
12:04government.
12:06We will see when the
12:08time comes.
12:10KPK ninety-five or ninety-six percent of the population is KPK and the rest of it is non-KPK.
12:18So, I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:22I am saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:25I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:28I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:31I am saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:34I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:37I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:40I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:43I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:46I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:49I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:52I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:55I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
12:58I am not saying that KPK is a bad party.
13:01I will talk to Abdul Qadir and he will tell you.
13:04I will talk to Abdul Qadir and he will tell you.
13:07You know that he covers Tariq Khan very closely.
13:10You know that he covers Tariq Khan very closely.
13:13He made videos which I saw with him today.
13:16People were going back and no one knew what to do.
13:19They said we don't know what to do.
13:22They said we don't know what to do.
13:25But now we have a challenge of this sort.
13:28But there was no plan either.
13:31The plan was to get to Islamabad.
13:34And do what?
13:37And do sit-in.
13:40And do sit-in.
13:43And do sit-in.
13:46And do sit-in.
13:49And do sit-in.
13:52And do sit-in.
13:55Wasn't there a better arrangement?
13:58Wasn't there a better arrangement?
14:01The plans given to him and to the kids
14:04The plans given to him and to the kids
14:07were eventually launched.
14:10But the original plan was given by Mr. Khan.
14:13But the original plan was given by Mr. Khan.
14:16And recently Mr. Sehf talked about Small India and
14:19And recently Mr. Sehf talked about Small India and
14:20the gap between both parties was too big.
14:53The time when this whole operation happened and as a result of which people ran away or were in a state of panic,
14:59before that, around 15-20 minutes before I reached there, the Karkunans had already started returning.
15:05The direction of the caravans, instead of D-Chowk, had already started moving towards Centaurus and Express Highway towards Zero Point.
15:13And the Karkunans were seen to be clueless at that time.
15:16What do you mean by clueless? What were they saying when you were talking?
15:18That we don't know anything, we don't know what to do, we don't have any plan, no one told us anything.
15:22It was exactly like that. No one had any direction.
15:25Someone was saying that we are going towards the fuel station to refuel the cars,
15:30someone was saying that we are going here to rest for a while,
15:33someone was saying that we are going now, we will come back tomorrow.
15:36And some Karkunans were complaining about the habit of the party that we were not told anything.
15:41All those visuals are recorded at that time. We are not saying this from our side.
15:45The Karkunans were completely clueless at that time.
15:47They were completely clueless. They didn't know whether they had to stay here or leave,
15:50or whether they had to leave because of the leadership of the party.
15:53Because at that time, only Ali Amin Ghandapur and Bushra Bibi were present.
15:58They were also a little away from the Karkunans.
16:00They were in the middle, but most of the Karkunans were clueless about where they were.
16:04If I can finish this, then I will come to you.
16:06Because this was the position. Thank you very much, Abdul Qadir.
16:08Sheikh Sahib is present with us.
16:10If Abdul Qadir is right, I don't deny what he said.
16:14But a little while ago, in the same protest,
16:17the address of Bushra Bibi and Ali Amin Khan on the container,
16:20which was from the entire protest and all the workers,
16:23was that you have to go and sit there.
16:26If you say, then I say to someone, he will send you.
16:29He was there a little while ago. This is called direction.
16:32After this, I don't think there will be any such thing.
16:35If they interviewed 2, 4, 5, 10 people,
16:38there were people on the container who were leading this march.
16:41They were standing on it. Khan had asked them to lead.
16:44And they were repeatedly saying on loudspeaker,
16:47that you have to go there and sit.
16:49After that, no individual person has to deliver a message.
16:52But whatever message,
16:54generally, your party's strength was the greatest.
16:57It was Imran Khan's strength. Communication.
17:00Everyone knew what the plan was.
17:03What to do, what to achieve.
17:05My brothers, I want your support right now,
17:09so that this issue of martyrdom and injury with us,
17:12I would just like to clear this,
17:15that the people who were leading there on loudspeaker,
17:18were repeatedly saying that you have to go and sit there.
17:21There is no question of being clueless.
17:23Sir, I myself went at 8.30. I will tell you the incident of 8.30.
17:26I am saying wrong. You take the footage. I am saying wrong.
17:29Sir, I will tell you the incident of 8.30.
17:32Around 8.30. I will be there in an hour and a half.
17:35I am standing 8-10 feet away from Ali Amin Khan's car.
17:38There were slogans being raised, let's go to D-Chowk.
17:41That is, people wanted to go to D-Chowk and the cars were not moving.
17:44So no one knew. People were told the plan was to go to D-Chowk.
17:47But this, I heard, Ali Khan has tweeted.
17:52Look, I am with Ali Amin Sahib.
17:54Ali Amin Sahib, when his press conference took place,
17:57because I was not present there.
17:59Let me talk to him. I will ask him on this.
18:01What you are saying that you were there, this happened.
18:03I will share it with you.
18:05We do not want to hide anything from anyone.
18:07We do not want to hide anything.
18:09Our people were there with the workers.
18:11Those who left from there, those who did not reach there,
18:14everyone will be accounted for.
18:16But at this time, was there a plan?
18:19Let me tell you that before the operation,
18:22food and blankets were being arranged for those people.
18:25People were bringing food themselves.
18:27Sir, we also cooked.
18:29You also cooked, I am sure.
18:31No one needed food.
18:34Absolutely right. I am sure this must have been done.
18:36When people were calling us,
18:38we were telling them that your food has also reached.
18:405,000-10,000 blankets,
18:42one donor was bringing it.
18:44We made arrangements from his side.
18:46Suddenly, when we were telling people that
18:48your food has reached,
18:50people had more issue with food,
18:52because they were walking for three days,
18:54on foot, on cars, shelling, gas, everything else,
18:56it was a big issue.
18:58But because the food was already arranged,
19:00people were told to calm down for a while.
19:02Food is reaching.
19:04And when you saw,
19:06the food truck was also demonstrated.
19:08Later, the food truck reached there.
19:10And that was done by the party.
19:12So, let me tell you, sir,
19:14they did this operation.
19:16No one had in mind
19:18that they will shoot directly,
19:20that this IG, Islamabad,
19:22and this Punjab Police,
19:24and this Mohsin Naqees,
19:26they will shoot directly.
19:28They were mentally prepared for this.
19:30They said, whatever happens,
19:32how can they take such a big step?
19:36So, whether someone was there or not,
19:38no one had in mind that this would happen.
19:40Shelling, shelling, rubber bullets,
19:42what is this?
19:44Why?
19:46Why did they do this to these children?
19:48I am sure you will get the answer to this.
19:50Aleema Khan tweeted,
19:52why was the sound system
19:54and lights of the main container
19:56turned off?
19:58Because there was no sound system
20:00and light, the people were not
20:02given any guidance.
20:04As a result, total darkness.
20:06There was no instructions or any guidance
20:08available for people on the ground.
20:10We pleaded all evening for the light
20:12and sound on the container to be turned on.
20:14We kept saying all night,
20:16that turn on the lights and sound.
20:18But no one gave any answer.
20:20I think, Aleema Khan,
20:22our sister,
20:24instead of asking questions on Twitter,
20:26I did not see the tweet,
20:28you are answering the question on Twitter.
20:30If she asks that question to her party,
20:32to Bushra Bibi,
20:34to Ali Ameer Khan,
20:36it would be more appropriate,
20:38so that she gets the answer.
20:40Who will answer her on Twitter?
20:42I am saying that the lack of direction,
20:46Aleema Khan is also saying that
20:48no direction was being given to anyone
20:50after the evening.
20:52This was a big issue at that time.
20:54Tell me,
20:56Imran Khan agreed to the Sanjani Jalsa,
20:58but Bushra Bibi refused.
21:00How did this happen?
21:02Barrister Saif,
21:06the information minister of KPK,
21:08he has said it on TV yesterday.
21:10I have heard it from him.
21:14He is a responsible man.
21:18If Khan Sahib had agreed,
21:20they should have communicated.
21:22But I think they could not
21:24communicate because of
21:26the loss of internet
21:28or because of a lot of people.
21:30Do you think,
21:32can Bushra Bibi overrule Imran Khan?
21:34Can Bushra Bibi overrule Imran Khan?
21:36Can Bushra Bibi overrule Imran Khan?
21:38Can Bushra Bibi overrule Imran Khan?
21:40Do you think she would have done it?
21:42No, sir.
21:44Imran Khan is the leader.
21:46He is the leader.
21:48And
21:50Bushra Bibi has no political position.
21:52She is a protestor.
21:54She is a protestor.
21:56When she came in front of
21:58Khan Sahib's family for the first time,
22:00people expressed their love for Khan.
22:02People expressed their love for Khan.
22:04People expressed their love for Khan.
22:06She was just a protester.
22:08She said that she had come to protest.
22:10She was the leader.
22:12Ok.
22:14What can anyone do
22:16I have to say that this party has a member because of Khan.
22:19If someone has overruled what Khan has said,
22:22God forbid,
22:23and this has become a loss,
22:26then tomorrow those people will be held responsible.
22:28So Bushra will also be held responsible if he has overruled?
22:31Because right now the sense is that he has overruled.
22:33He has said, no, it's my decision.
22:35No, I am not saying that he has overruled.
22:38But sir, there is another question in this.
22:40I am saying that...
22:41Ali Ameen Gandapur was also made to speak on the phone, Khan sir.
22:45Sheikh sahib, Ali Ameen Gandapur was also made to speak on the phone, Khan sir.
22:50This was also said by the barrister yesterday.
22:52Sir, I don't know about this.
22:54The barrister told me yesterday.
22:55All this was being discussed in my program.
22:57Because since that episode happened with Ali Ameen,
23:00I have not been able to talk to him in detail.
23:03After the press conference, there was a brief conversation.
23:06I was not able to talk to him in detail
23:08because he was leaving for...
23:10he was relocating
23:13a few minutes ago.
23:14Wherever he has come, I will try to contact him again.
23:18So that there is clarity.
23:19Obviously, it is the right of you people,
23:21and the public,
23:22and most importantly, the people of ETI,
23:25whose children were present there,
23:27that they have a right to know.
23:28And I think they should know.
23:30So taking all these things, I will share it with the whole of Pakistan.
23:34Thank you very much.
23:35Sheikh Waqas Akram Sahib was present with us.
23:39Mohammad Zubair Sahib is with us.
23:40Mohammad Malik Sahib is present.
23:41Mohammad Malik Sahib is present.
23:42Mr. Zubair, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
23:45Yes, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
23:46Mr. Zubair, yesterday you saw a call for justice.
23:49We have seen all the incidents after that.
23:53In your opinion,
23:54where was the error in justice?
23:56Was there a plan?
23:57Did they have a plan?
23:58Or do you think that plan...
24:01I think...
24:02was ruined because of the government's excessive use of force?
24:08No, I think if there was a plan,
24:10then its execution or implementation was not visible at all.
24:14Because the things that have come out later,
24:17that Bushra Bibi obviously took over everything.
24:22And according to Barrister Sahib,
24:25which he also gave an interview yesterday,
24:27before that crackdown,
24:28even Imran Khan had agreed not to go to D-Chowk.
24:34But she decided and
24:36she was calling the shots.
24:37Politically, she is not an expert.
24:44And at least we have not seen her politics in the last few years.
24:50So what will be the implications for PTI?
24:54What will be the implications for the workers?
24:56How should this be managed?
24:59So that the best benefits should be received.
25:01What exactly is the objective?
25:03What is the objective?
25:04We will reach there.
25:05After that, we have to govern.
25:08We have to make all those demands.
25:10If we sit on D-Chowk,
25:12then it is difficult to spend a good night for the workers.
25:17Who will take care of them?
25:20And then the leadership was completely absent.
25:22And more or less absent.
25:24So I think it was badly executed,
25:26if there was a plan and it was made.
25:28And this final call,
25:30I think I have always disagreed with PTI.
25:34They will come out with a coffin.
25:36Because if you do not say this,
25:38then you have a fundamental right,
25:40you can hold Jalsa Jaloos.
25:42But when you say that they will come out with a coffin,
25:44in comfort,
25:46they will achieve all their objectives and come back.
25:50Then the government says that they have already made the announcement.
25:54So when they are making arrangements,
25:56putting containers,
25:58trying to stop them,
26:00then it becomes our right.
26:02And the biggest thing that they underestimated,
26:04and underestimated very badly,
26:06that how far the government will be willing to go,
26:10to contain that crackdown,
26:12how vicious it will be.
26:14So two and a half years of experience was in front of you.
26:16You brought the workers and made them stand there.
26:18And they were expecting that
26:20they will be treated like a protest of 2014.
26:24So I think that was
26:26a miscalculation.
26:30A miscalculation of what the government will do.
26:32But Mr. Malik, this is what the government had to do.
26:34They were saying from day one,
26:36was Mr. Tariqan not ready for this?
26:40Kasi, you remember,
26:42we have talked about this in many programs.
26:44We were saying earlier that the 10-day time schedule
26:46is very unrealistic.
26:48When Mr. Khan came in 2014,
26:50he announced at the end of June,
26:52in Bahawalpur,
26:54and came to Islamabad on August 14.
26:5640 days.
26:58Imran Khan himself was leading.
27:00He himself was making rallies.
27:02He himself was whipping up support.
27:04With his charisma.
27:06It took him 40 days.
27:08Now you are saying that in 10 days,
27:10all of this will happen.
27:12Impossible.
27:14When the party is already on the run.
27:16In Punjab, there was a full ruckus.
27:18In KP, there is a lot of internal power struggle.
27:20You remember, in the last two weeks,
27:22Aatif Khan and the party
27:24faced corruption from Gandapur and everyone.
27:26There was a lot of conflict between them.
27:28There was a grouping there.
27:30How Umar Yub came in,
27:32then he was thrown out.
27:34In the drama of the General Secretary.
27:36Everything was going on.
27:38So the party was a fractured party.
27:42When Mr. Gandapur said,
27:44and I remember,
27:46we used to say in our programs,
27:48what pace has Mr. Gandapur set.
27:50You can read our funerals.
27:52And what our friends were saying,
27:54it is absolutely right.
27:56You have put it on the plate
27:58and given the excuse to the government
28:00that there will be an extreme crackdown.
28:02He himself is coming to kill.
28:04He is coming with a shroud,
28:06he is coming to do everything.
28:08There has to be violence here.
28:10Someone said in a program,
28:12in 10 days,
28:14you can't organize a big rally.
28:16You can only organize a confrontation.
28:18But sir,
28:20despite so many days,
28:22the initial address,
28:24reaching Islamabad,
28:26in front of Centaurus,
28:28a big crowd was seen.
28:30If you add,
28:32I was asking Mr. Zubair,
28:34if you add the local population,
28:36Islamabad,
28:38the place where this crowd was gathered,
28:40let me add something.
28:42Yes, sir.
28:44I am saying that the crowd had come to them.
28:46No, no, no, the crowd came from Peshawar.
28:48There was no doubt in the crowd.
28:50In KP,
28:52Imran Khan has unprecedented support.
28:54It is his power base.
28:56The government is yours.
28:58All the machinery supports you.
29:00There was no issue in that.
29:02There was no issue
29:04whether there would be a crowd or not.
29:06This crowd should be much bigger than this.
29:08As much as there was a rally,
29:10as much as everything happened,
29:12that was most in Punjab.
29:14The crowd went to Punjab.
29:16Where were the crowds of Punjab?
29:18The roads were closed.
29:20You said they could not come forward.
29:22Why not in the cities?
29:24I was seeing tweets of Mr. Hamad Azhar.
29:26We have crossed cars on two boats.
29:28We have crossed the river.
29:30Leave the river,
29:32you can see the crowd in Lahore.
29:34Where did you see that Punjab?
29:36I think this is very damaging
29:38for the party.
29:40I did not see the central leadership of PTI,
29:42I think people did not see
29:44the people who were present.
29:46Mr. Gandapur was distributing blankets.
29:48He got into the car and left.
29:50When the leadership leaves,
29:52what will happen to the crowd?
29:54Mr. Zubair,
29:56do you agree?
29:58Yes.
30:00I totally agree.
30:02We have also held rallies.
30:04There was a very simple criteria
30:06that the leadership should be present
30:08for the morale of the workers.
30:10The leadership should be present.
30:12It cannot be present all the time.
30:14Every half an hour,
30:16a leader comes and speaks
30:18about his passions.
30:20Where was that crowd?
30:22I was not showing it on electronic media,
30:24but on social media,
30:26I hardly took names.
30:28For example, Ali Muhammad,
30:30Umar Ayyub,
30:32Shibli Faraz,
30:34Barrister Zafar,
30:36where were they?
30:38I am very disappointed
30:40about the workers
30:42who were made to stand
30:44in front of them
30:46in front of the might
30:48of the state.
30:50After that,
30:52everyone disappeared.
30:54I think PTI's morale
30:56has been greatly affected.
30:58PTI also has an advantage.
31:00I think
31:02looking at PTI,
31:04especially yesterday,
31:06the way they organize,
31:08the way everyone comes,
31:10the way the people here
31:12feed them,
31:14you can suppress them,
31:16you can kill them,
31:18you can make them retreat,
31:20you cannot defeat them.
31:22So, you will have to engage them
31:24somewhere.
31:26The state should also make
31:28this decision.
31:30Mr. Zubair,
31:32do you agree that the state
31:34has two things.
31:36One is that the ideology
31:38that is in their minds,
31:40they have killed it,
31:42but that ideology
31:44will not end.
31:46Secondly,
31:48the people's hatred
31:50against the present
31:52ruling set-up
31:54will only worsen.
31:56They will think that
31:58they cannot do anything.
32:00This was the attempt
32:02and now there is no way out.
32:04So, the hatred against them,
32:06if they don't get involved,
32:08they will think that
32:10they have crushed it,
32:12that ideology will end
32:14and Ibrahim Khan will leave their minds.
32:16That is not going to happen.
32:18That's not going to happen.
32:20I agree with you that
32:22after an event like this,
32:24it becomes very difficult
32:26to gather people again.
32:28But the biggest disadvantage
32:30is that Imran Khan is in jail
32:32and the advantage is that
32:34his worker will come out again.
32:36So, it is not a problem for them
32:38to get a worker out.
32:40The biggest problem is to
32:42organize themselves.
32:44Kashif, I want to touch back
32:46on the earlier point that you raised.
32:48This is a very important point.
32:50The government has two choices.
32:52Either they open their hearts
32:54and do what they want
32:56or whatever the next
32:58protest is,
33:00there will be a gap of 2-4 months.
33:02This is a gap
33:04to start negotiations.
33:06Deal from a position of strength.
33:08This is the best time
33:10to talk.
33:12Because the initial victory
33:14was theirs
33:16when they reached Islamabad
33:18despite all your efforts.
33:20Your victory is that you killed them
33:22and they lost their leadership.
33:24Now, both of them have one victory
33:26and it seems that
33:28the government has a big victory.
33:30But this is not a permanent victory.
33:32What Zubair was saying
33:34is absolutely right.
33:36There is a sense of alienation
33:38and anger of the worker.
33:40Two things matter in this equation.
33:42Imran Khan and a worker.
33:44The people in between don't matter
33:46and neither does their worker
33:48care about them.
33:50I want to add something, Kashif.
33:52Yes, Zubair sir.
33:54I think
33:56we should not ignore one thing
33:58and we have to wait and see.
34:00According to me,
34:02there will be a vicious crackdown on PTI.
34:04It could be more brutal
34:06than post-May 9th.
34:08The state will think
34:10that they have become more powerful.
34:12But wouldn't that be a mistake?
34:14Because you can't finish the party.
34:16But you can't finish the party.
34:18You can't finish their voters
34:20and their ideology.
34:22You can't finish their ideology.
34:24You can only break
34:26their leadership.
34:28What's the point?
34:30This is for PTI.
34:32It will be a crackdown
34:34on both sides.
34:36PTI is very resilient
34:38and prepares its people.
34:40Their leadership
34:42will not be scattered
34:44like post-May 9th.
34:46It will be there.
34:48I hope it will be there.
34:50I hope it will be there.
34:52For the sake of Pakistan,
34:54not just for Imran Khan and PTI.
34:56This is a challenge for them.
34:58PTI has been facing
35:00the challenges for the last
35:02two and a half years.
35:04Let me ask Malik sir.
35:06The challenge of the government
35:08is to be humble.
35:10If you win,
35:12this phase
35:14will come.
35:16Tariq Khan is saying
35:18he has lost.
35:20But if you
35:22repel them,
35:24it will be a challenge
35:26for Tariq Khan.
35:28Kashif,
35:30the establishment
35:32has to decide
35:34between short-term victory
35:36and long-term stability.
35:38The next few months
35:40will be very important.
35:42Either you multiply
35:44the crackdown.
35:46You saw 8th February.
35:48It can happen again.
35:50But not every time.
35:52It is better
35:54that the point has been made
35:56that it is not easy
35:58to fight the state.
36:00It is impossible.
36:02Especially in this condition.
36:04This is the best time
36:06to talk about long-term dialogue
36:08and long-term arrangements
36:10which can be done
36:12in the next 2-3 years.
36:14Solve the problems.
36:16Solve the political
36:18impasse.
36:20Let's take a break.
36:22We will be back.
36:24Welcome back, Nazim.
36:26Tariq-e-Insaf is a mindset.
36:28You have removed Tariq-e-Insaf
36:30but you cannot end it.
36:32The mindset does not end.
36:34Imran Khan's following
36:36is enough.
36:38You saw 8th February.
36:40If this opportunity has come,
36:42you should also talk about it.
36:44Solve this problem long-term.
36:46Taking revenge is not the solution.
36:48Allah Hafiz.