Unpacked by AFAR (podcast) by AFAR - Dailymotion

AFAR

In this podcast, AFAR editors talk with travelers and industry professionals to unpack some of the more complicated questions around travel.

Transcript

00:00 Hey everyone, and welcome to the third season of Unpacked, a podcast by afar.

00:04 I'm Aislinn, and as you can probably tell by this giant microphone in front of my face,

00:08 I host the show. Every week on the podcast, we unpack a different tricky topic in travel,

00:15 and this week is no exception. This is Unpacked.

00:18 Well, Fran, welcome to Unpacked. It's so nice to have you here today.

00:29 Well, thank you. I'm happy to be here.

00:30 And you're not on a cruise ship right now, it looks like.

00:34 I'm just off a cruise ship. I unpacked yesterday.

00:38 No, where were you? Where did you come from?

00:40 I was on a new cruise line called Explora Journeys, cruising from Barbados to Miami.

00:47 Wow. And how was that?

00:49 It's very nice. It's a really interesting new line that's sort of resort style.

00:57 A big ship for about 700 guests, so kind of an exclusive experience,

01:04 but on a ship with a lot of space. Yeah. And did you stop at various

01:09 islands along the way? I did. I wandered around St. Kitts

01:12 and St. Lucia, Castries, and also we went to Antigua, so we were in St. John's, where I did

01:21 a fabulous little shore excursion, which was yoga on a beach overlooking a yacht harbor. It was just

01:29 breathtaking. And I had never actually done yoga on the beach, so that was a lot of fun.

01:33 Yeah, that's cool. We just recorded our Where to Go in 2024 episode, and St. Kitts is one of

01:39 the destinations because of the rum manufacturing that's increased there.

01:45 Yeah. And it's a lovely area. There's some beaches there where you can be on a narrow

01:53 strip and actually have beaches on both sides and with very few people around. So that's what

02:00 I like about St. Kitts. How lovely. Well, I would love to hear more

02:05 about your cruising background because I know that you are deeply experienced in this world.

02:09 What drew you to cruising and how often do you sail?

02:14 Well, I like to joke that what drew me to cruising is my family went across from New York to

02:20 England when I was about two or three years old on the old SS United States. I don't really have

02:27 any memories of that, but I suppose it was something that may have pushed me in that

02:32 direction. But what drew me to cruising was I was working for a travel publication and they

02:40 assigned me to go on a ship. And the first ship I went on was a Norwegian cruise line ship where

02:46 I shared a cabin with my husband and two very young children. And it was an inside cabin and

02:52 the kids were on bunk beds. But somehow the experience stuck with me in a positive sort

02:58 of family-oriented way. Following that, I was assigned to go on Seabourn, which was then an

03:04 up and coming luxury brand. And it was such a heavenly week on board with champagne and caviar

03:11 and the like that I did not want to get off. And the kids were not on that one.

03:15 A very different experience.

03:17 Exactly.

03:18 Oh, wow. And so how did you kind of parlay that into what you do now, which is, it seems like

03:24 cover cruising full-time.

03:26 Right. Which I've done pretty much since the 1990s. I mean, with some breaks for editing jobs and

03:33 that kind of thing to pay the bills. But yeah, no, I just, you know, I was in the right place at

03:39 the right time. I had only been on a few cruises when I met an editor who was looking to assign

03:46 the book Idiot's Guide to Cruise Vacations, which I took on. And then Idiot's became Dummies,

03:54 got sold to Dummies. And Dummies, I did the Dummies Guide to Cruise Vacations and then a

03:58 whole lot of cruise books for Fromers. And that kind of, you know, got me into that realm. And,

04:06 you know, if I'm counting now, I think I've been on 170 ships. So it's, you know, there's a lot of

04:13 background there. Some of them, honestly, I've just gone on to inspect for a day or two. Like,

04:18 you know, sometimes it's just a quick look. But no, I've had some really amazing experiences on

04:24 the high seas. And I will admit, and this may come as a shock to you, I get seasick.

04:29 - No, really?

04:31 - Yeah, so it probably wasn't the correct, you know, profession for me to choose. But

04:39 I load up on my Dramamine or Bonine or wristbands or behind the ear patches or everything I can

04:48 possibly get my hands on if it's rough seas. And I make it work.

04:52 - And, I mean, you love it enough that it's worth that, it sounds like.

04:57 - I mean, it's the way I've seen the world. I've been to about 105 countries. And my

05:03 knowledge of the inland world is much less than my knowledge of the seaside world.

05:08 - Wow, that is fascinating to me. And do you still feel like when you set sail somewhere new

05:15 or somewhere you've been, do you still feel kind of a rush?

05:18 - Absolutely. And, you know, and I put myself in situations where I will have that rush with,

05:25 like, adventure activities and that kind of thing. But even in a port like St. Kitts that I've been

05:31 to, you know, numerous times, there's always, you know, I always look, and I think all travel

05:36 writers will tell you this, but I always look for that intimate human encounter. You know,

05:43 I tell people when you go on a, sit on a park bench and see what happens, or walk into a grocery

05:48 store and see what happens, you know, talk to people. And those are the memories I think that

05:54 really stick with us. - Yeah, absolutely. Well,

05:57 how often do you sail these days? - It's been up to 12 times a year.

06:03 I've cut it back a little bit in the past year 'cause I've had a lot of writing to do. But,

06:10 yeah, I've been known to get on a ship every month. - Amazing. Amazing.

06:14 - Amazing or crazy. - I don't know. I mean,

06:19 you are clearly, you wrote the book or books on cruising. You're clearly a pro, so I can see why.

06:25 I would love to actually, a little bit later, get your tips for people who do get seasick,

06:31 'cause it sounds like you. - Absolutely.

06:33 - But which companies are you excited about right now? You know?

06:38 - Well, I am excited about the new Explorer Journeys. I'm always excited about Windstar

06:46 Cruises, which is a line that I often recommend to friends because they're really small ships. Their

06:52 largest capacity is 342 guests. And also they're the official cruise line of the James Beard

06:59 Foundation. - Amazing.

07:01 - I'm personally trying to do all the, or many of the adventure lines right now while I still

07:08 have the energy. So my next cruise, which will be in January, is a new route, which I'm very

07:16 excited about on the Western coast of Africa, leaving from Dakar and going to the Cape Verde

07:24 and the Sagos Islands and Gambia. And so I'm really excited about that. It'll be a lot of,

07:33 probably pretty intense hiking and zodiac tours and snorkeling. And I just bought new water shoes

07:40 that cover my ankles so baby stingrays and other things don't bother me.

07:46 - And who is that with? Is that with? - That's with Hurtigruten, which is a Norwegian

07:53 line, which it's a company that does regular service up and down the coast, delivering goods

08:03 and carrying some passengers to all the coastal communities on the West coast of Norway. But they

08:12 also have some expedition ships and they're rebranding now as Ajax. So I'm going on Ajax.

08:22 - Okay, okay. And what is Explora Journeys known for? What's their-

08:27 - Explora Journeys is actually owned by MSC Group, which also owns the mainstream line,

08:33 MSC Cruises, which is well known, particularly in Europe and making a lot of inroads in the US.

08:38 And the family owns MSC, which is the freighter ships as well. And they have started this line

08:50 to provide again, that luxury experience, but not on a small ship. So there is a pickleball

08:55 court and there is a small casino. And there's like five restaurants, which by the way,

09:02 have some of the best food I've ever eaten on a cruise ship. Eating is a big part of the experience.

09:06 - Yeah, absolutely. - But what's cool about being on a big ship,

09:13 but with again, like, they're going to try to limit it to about 700 passengers.

09:18 There's so many pools and so much outdoor space that you really can pretend you're on a yacht.

09:24 And speaking of that, there's also a lot of new ships coming out that really are like super yachts.

09:30 Like for instance, last year I went on the first Ritz-Carlton yacht. And again, like I think people

09:40 traveling today are looking for relaxation and I don't think there's anything better than being at

09:48 an infinity pool by yourself, sitting on a day bed, looking at the sea.

09:53 - Hard to complain about that one. Are there any ships that you're particularly looking forward

10:00 to in 2024? - It's interesting because the new ships in 2024, the one that everybody

10:08 will be reading about is Icon of the Seas, which is the world's largest ship,

10:13 which carries some 7,000 passengers plus crews. So you're in a small town on the high seas.

10:20 And it's a ship that's operated with liquefied natural gas, which is the cleanest burning

10:27 fossil fuel available to ships right now. So it does have that, you know, some will argue that

10:35 there are other things that happen with LNG, although there's capture programs for methane

10:39 now and they're really trying to build these ships now that will eventually use the same

10:46 facilities they have on board to carry sustainable fuels. So we're seeing a precursor of the,

10:53 you know, cruise lines going much more eco-friendly and all the cruise lines that are

11:00 members of the Cruise Lines International Association have committed to pursuing net zero

11:05 by 2050. But Icon of the Seas is just, I mean, just with that many people and all kinds of new

11:12 attractions. So that's one. There's going to be a sister ship to Silver Nova, which is another,

11:20 which also operates on LNG and hybrid forms of energy, including batteries. And, you know,

11:29 that ship has taken a much more resort-like focus in Silver Sea Cruises, which is a very fancy

11:36 ultra luxury line has done before. So I'm looking forward to that. And Ritz Carlton will be bringing

11:42 out a new slightly larger yacht. So how many people can sail on their yachts or at least the

11:48 first one? Well, the first one is 298 passengers. I think the second one is approaching 450.

11:56 Small. They're small. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you've, you've talked a little bit about this,

12:00 you know, the environmental, you know, sustainability angle and pickleball

12:05 courts, but how have you seen cruising change in recent years? Well, I think the big change,

12:10 and I have a story about this, but is the advent of fast Wi-Fi. And, you know, that may,

12:19 that may sound silly, but I got married on a cruise ship. And when I, when I got married,

12:26 it was a princess ship. And when I got married on the cruise ship, among my guests was

12:30 a lawyer who's a litigator for a major corporate firm. And my cousin who was, you know, at the

12:39 time, a big time consultant. And I saw the two of them go absolutely crazy because they had

12:46 information they had to receive or send. And to the point where my lawyer friend was ready to fly

12:52 off the private island for a few hours to get to NASA, you know, in the Bahamas, the cruise lines

12:59 island to NASA, just to, you know, to send a deposition or whatever it was she had to send. So

13:04 as it turned out, there is a secret, even if you're on a ship that doesn't have,

13:09 you know, lots of Wi-Fi capability, which is to get up in the middle of the night when everybody

13:15 else is sleeping and nobody else is using the system. But anyway, there is Starlink on cruise

13:20 ships now and they're, you know, they're all falling in line, signing up and it's fast and,

13:25 you know, wonderful if you have to work on vacation, which a lot of us, you know, can't

13:30 take more than a few days off without addressing, if nothing else, all our emails. So that's a big

13:38 one. I also am really, you know, we'll talk about food again, but I'm really fascinated with how

13:45 cruise lines have really come up with ways to suit all tastes. Like a lot of the cruise lines now

13:50 have vegan menus and will do, you know, raw food if you request. And they definitely have gluten

14:00 free and fat free and everything else that you could possibly want. They've really adapted. And

14:06 they've also added all kinds of specialty restaurants. On the all-inclusive lines,

14:12 you usually don't pay extra. On the mainstream lines, you might pay extra, but you can have,

14:19 you know, you can go to a sushi restaurant or a Pan-Asian restaurant. You can go to a French

14:23 restaurant. You can go to Italian. So again, like taking that approach of the resorts and just

14:29 having a wide array of restaurants, I think is a big selling point. And then the other thing is

14:36 the focus on outdoors. So on most of the new builds, not all of them, but deck space is really

14:43 thought through. So you don't necessarily have to be with the crowds at a middle of the ship pool.

14:49 Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, are there, so bundling all of that together, and you know,

14:56 you've mentioned a couple of trips that you're taking this year, but which itineraries are you

15:01 particularly excited about in 2024? Anything new? I'm certainly excited about that western coast of

15:08 Africa, you know, again, an untapped area. I'm excited, although I haven't figured out how to go

15:14 on yet. There's going to be some river cruises in Colombia for the first time. We're also seeing a

15:21 lot of ships, the luxury and expedition lines looking at the Kimberley region of Australia,

15:29 and on to like Raja Amput in Indonesia, some New Guinea, you know, so you know, more of that

15:36 Pacific focus, especially with the expedition ships, they've pretty much focused on the

15:44 Arctic, even some ships going to the actual North Pole, wherever it is at that moment.

15:50 And Antarctica, but now we're seeing expedition ships go to other areas, including sort of

15:58 exploring the Mediterranean and places like that with more of an expedition angle. And some of

16:05 those ships have helicopters and submarines, so if you're looking for a new view of destinations,

16:13 I have done the helicopter in Greenland, with Quark Expeditions, an expedition line.

16:21 And it was amazing. And in fact, they offered I was on a Northwest Passage and Greenland trip,

16:29 and they offered three separate opportunities to go up in the helicopters. The first one,

16:34 you know, was on a beautiful clear day. The second one I passed on, I don't know,

16:39 the idea of going out in fog and then landing on the ship did not appeal to me, but everything was

16:43 fine, you know. But the third one was taking people to the top of the glacier to hike. And

16:51 I've hiked glaciers in Alaska before, so I'd had that experience and I had some things I needed to

16:57 do back on the ship. So I just asked the pilot, would it be okay if I do a round trip with him?

17:03 And there was nobody else on this wonderful Airbus helicopter. And he said, "Do you want to see what

17:08 this baby can do?" And I was suddenly in top gun. It was terrifying and fascinating. Oh, you know,

17:17 sort of going up towards the mountain until the helicopter goes, "Warning, warning!"

17:22 No, I mean, it was just really, you know, I felt like I was in very good hands the entire time.

17:31 But it was just really fun.

17:33 Wow. Talk about an expedition.

17:36 Exactly.

17:36 But not the submarine. You haven't done the submarine yet.

17:40 I haven't done the submarine yet. And it's just, just circumstantial, you know, circumstances. I

17:45 will do it eventually when given the opportunity.

17:48 Wow. That is so cool. For people who are kind of drawn to the outdoors and expeditions,

17:55 what would you recommend for them?

18:00 Well, two places I'd probably start. One is the Galapagos, which is just, I love the Galapagos.

18:08 My most recent trip was on Silver Origin. You know, you're on it. Well, in that case,

18:15 you're on just a beautiful luxury ship. But you also are out all day in zodiacs, either,

18:22 you know, looking for bird life and other creatures along the shoreline, or you're taking

18:27 a zodiac on land to, for instance, walk on volcanic rock past, I don't know, 10,000 giant iguanas.

18:35 Or, you know, you're taking a zodiac and snorkeling. And if you're like me, you're a

18:44 shark whisperer. So you'll see one, two, five, maybe more sharks come checking you out.

18:53 You know, they're reef sharks. So even though they can be dangerous, they're not particularly

18:58 looking for you. You mentioned Quark. Is that a cruise line that you would recommend for people

19:04 who want to have that activity? Yeah, that's one of them. You know, there's such thing as

19:11 luxury expedition lines. Scenic from Australia is one. There's Atlas Ocean Voyages, which is

19:19 Portuguese owned is another. I had the most magnificent Antarctica experience with Abercroppy

19:28 and Kent, the luxury tour operator. They use penult ships in Antarctica, and they bring in

19:36 their own team. And I'm talking, we had some of the, you know, best bird experts in South America.

19:43 I mean, just an incredible group of more than two dozen expedition guides. What I like about

19:50 Quark, by the way, in Greenland in particular, is they have a program where they bring on two

19:56 Inuit chefs who do sort of a gourmet version of Inuit cuisine using foraged and hunted and

20:06 fish for ingredients. And it was kind of mind blowing. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Well, speaking of Penan,

20:14 I sailed with them to Antarctica about five years ago. And it was and it was over the kind of New

20:21 Year's time. And it was one of the highlights of my life for sure. Like the ships are beautiful,

20:26 fantastic French food, and then you know, ringing in the new year.

20:31 Out, you know, passing whales and icebergs. And yeah, it was exceptional. Yeah. Antarctica's a

20:39 trip. And you know, that was cool as you can. There's different itineraries that you can do.

20:44 Like now something that's sort of caught on Silversea is doing, Linblad is starting it,

20:50 I think next season is you can fly part of the way to Antarctica and only cruise for a week. You

20:59 know, it used to be these cruises were always two weeks or longer. And now there's a way to fly in,

21:06 you know, see some of Antarctica and get back quickly. And are you skipping the passage then?

21:13 You are skipping the passage, which, you know, in my case, my last case was, you know, Drake's Lake.

21:21 But I have friends who've gone through the passage and been strapped into their beds,

21:25 which wouldn't make me happy. So but anyway, the other thing with Antarctica is I've been

21:31 advising people my itinerary, which was 17 days, also went to South Georgia. And South Georgia has

21:39 a lot more penguins in Antarctica, the sub sub Arctic area. I mean, at one point, I landed on a

21:47 beach with 100,000 pairs of mating king penguins. And they're all they're the size of a small child.

21:54 So if you can imagine yourself, you know, and then of course, among them are elephant seals, these

21:59 giant, you know, slow moving creatures, and somehow they get along with the penguins and

22:05 nobody bothers each other. It's just, you know, it's one of those, you know, if you want to feel

22:11 like you're in a nature documentary, I think that's a much do and I feel that way again,

22:15 about Galapagos, too, especially in the water. Wow, wow. So we would recommend if you're going

22:22 that far, try to tack that on or find an itinerary that has that. Yeah, okay. Well,

22:28 you mentioned it earlier. And I do feel like we can't talk about cruising without talking about

22:32 the kind of sustainability aspect of it all. How what what are you seeing? How has that changed?

22:38 Which cruise lines would you recommend? Well, I mean, I think, you know, in general,

22:42 cruise lines are committed to reducing plastics. So, you know, you know, single use plastics. So

22:50 I think that's really an important thing to look at. There are some ships coming out now with with

22:59 the hybrid fuel systems and propulsion systems. So you you know, you can look at look at a ship

23:09 that at least runs part of the time on batteries. Pinalt has a ship like that and I think Herter

23:17 Gruten does and some other lines, too. I think that as we move forward, you'll want to see what

23:25 fuels specifically cruise ships are are using. There's all kinds of things on the table. There

23:32 is, like I say, liquefied natural gas, methanol. Explorer Journeys is talking about hydrogen for

23:41 their fifth and sixth ship. And what the cruise lines haven't done is gotten on the same page,

23:48 but they're all looking in this room and and, you know, and they're all there have already been more

23:53 than, I think, three dozen experiments using sustainable fuels from crops, from manure.

24:02 But there's but there are those kinds of experiments. So what I would do is if you're

24:06 considering a cruise line, I would look at their online presence in terms of sustainability.

24:12 Some cruise lines are actually, you know, offsetting carbon, you know, by giving contributions and

24:20 that kind of, you know, there's there's that type of thing taking place. Explorer Journeys,

24:24 which I was just on, has a huge reef conservation project at their private island in the Bahamas

24:33 that they're funding. And to give you an example of how well the cruise lines are starting to do,

24:39 like that ship that I was on, Explorer One, the godmother is Sylvia Earle, who's one of the most

24:45 well-known marine biologists and ocean conservationists. And I said to her, you know,

24:50 like, really? You're looking at the cruise industry? And, you know, her attitude is they

24:55 have money to spend and they're committed to sustainability. So why wouldn't I be?

25:00 Yeah. And I've heard that from other conservationists, too. So the bottom line, the

25:06 cruise lines are putting their money where their mouth is on sustainability. And it's really

25:12 fascinating to watch. And there'll be a lot of things I should mention. Cruise lines are also

25:17 greatly, greatly, during COVID, they all focused on greatly reducing how much fuel they need.

25:24 So they updated HVAC systems and, you know, this type of thing. And most ships are making their

25:31 own water, almost all their own water in some cases. And so they're not going to impact communities

25:40 that may be short on water. And they also, the cruise industry has also developed plug-in

25:46 capabilities. So literally, there's a giant plug that can plug the cruise ship in at a port that

25:53 has sustainable energy, and they can just turn off all their engines. Of course, it doesn't work

25:58 if the port itself isn't, you know, it doesn't have sustainable energy. And unfortunately, very

26:03 few ports around the world have that right now. But the cruise lines, SeaDream, it just announced

26:09 that they were adding the plugs, you know, they're actually making the investment in adding this

26:15 technology so they can plug in. Oh, that's great. So that may be something that we see over the

26:19 next few years is more port cities adding that capability. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, you know,

26:27 we hear this sometimes. People say that I'm not a cruiser, you know, that's just not what I do.

26:32 What would you say to someone who thinks that they aren't a cruiser?

26:36 So I would say, first of all, that there are parts of the world that are best seen

26:42 from a cruise ship. And that would, to me, include, well, at least the southeast coast of Alaska,

26:50 in some other parts of Alaska, obviously, the Galapagos, because, you know,

26:55 you don't want to just go to the Galapagos and be on land. That doesn't work.

27:02 And, and Antarctica and, you know, and there's others. I could almost argue the Caribbean,

27:12 because you're seeing so many different islands, whereas you're not, you know,

27:16 you're not just going to one island and island hopping isn't particularly easy, which is why I

27:23 put the Greek islands also in that category. And, you know, and by the way, Italy and France,

27:31 the coastal Italy and France, another one that's a lot easier, I think. And there is a cruise ship

27:37 for everyone. There are such things as sailing cruise ships, they might call them sailing yachts,

27:43 but they're cruise ships. There are cruise ships that have under 50 passengers. So if you're like,

27:50 oh, I can't be with a crowd. You can be on a very small ship. And, you know, it's like a hotel,

28:00 there is one for everybody's taste. You might not like to go to a big name brand chain,

28:06 you might seek out boutique hotels or Airbnbs. There are cruise equivalents.

28:10 Yeah, yeah. You know, I would say I didn't have a strong opinion either way, but it just wasn't

28:16 part of my life. You know, I'd never done it. And then what kind of changed my mind was a backroads

28:22 river cruise through here, there was a cycling river cruise. And so every day, we go off. And

28:28 so we're getting kind of beyond these port towns and cycling into these incredible, you know,

28:33 like fields. One day we crossed over from Austria to Slovakia, and we actually cycled over the

28:39 border. And it was and then every day you come back, eat dinner, you're, everything's in the

28:44 same place, you're not packing your gear with you. And I was just blown away by that experience.

28:48 It was quite right. I mean, basically the ship, you know, your hotel goes with you, right? Yeah.

28:54 So, so it's very carefree. I mean, to me, I'm a real type A, and I get on a ship and I relax. I

29:01 mean, they're feeding me, somebody is making my bed, sometimes even two times a day, you know,

29:06 if I take a nap, and I come back after dinner, and my bed's made again. And, you know, there's a

29:12 certain sort of pampering element. You've got crew from more than 60 countries around the world,

29:18 and, you know, just just amazing people to talk to and hear their experiences. And, you know,

29:26 you can travel at a very high, you know, champagne and caviar level or a very rustic level too. I

29:33 mean, personally, I tend to go, my favorite are ships where I can just pack my normal clothes

29:41 and not have to worry about, you know, extreme formality. On the other hand, some of my most

29:49 wonderful cruise experiences have been on the Queen Mary II Ocean Liner, which is definitely

29:55 formal and has a ballroom where people wear ball gowns. And, you know, it's a total different kind

30:01 of experience. So there's just such a broad spectrum. To say you don't want to be on a cruise

30:06 ship is like saying I never want to go to a hotel. Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting. I love that.

30:12 What would you recommend for people who don't want the formality? Well, I mean, like I said,

30:17 the one I'm about to go on in West Africa, the Herdegruten, I mean, I have a pile of,

30:22 consisting right now of t-shirts and some old safari clothes, and a couple hats. And that's

30:28 probably what I'm taking. A couple bathing suits, you know, some water shoes. On the ship I was just

30:35 on, Explorer I, you're not required, there's no dress code. It's what you feel like wearing. Now,

30:42 granted, some people, you know, wore jackets at night. I mean, the only time it was recommended

30:47 that is semi-formal is this extraordinary experience they have where they bring a land-based

30:54 chef on board. And right now they, you know, or at least that person designs the menus. And right

30:59 now the menu is by the chef from Aquavit in New York. And I think it was 190 euros per person and

31:08 worth every penny. Wow. I mean, you know, it's that Scandinavian, Scandinavians rule on extreme

31:16 gourmet food these days, but it was really creative and wonderful. So, you know, there is,

31:23 again, that spectrum. But I mean, in Alaska there's uncruises, very relaxed, limblad expeditions,

31:30 tends to not put a lot of focus on what you're wearing. It's easy to find these experiences.

31:38 If you want that barefoot windjammer experience, you could find that too. So, you know, if you

31:43 want to be on a ship, a sailing ship and help pull the ropes, you know, that's out there. Wow. How

31:49 cool. I would like to do that someday. It's fun. I've done it. It's like, you know, windjammer,

31:56 to me, windjammers are like camp for adults, you know, especially when you're sharing a head.

32:01 Most of them you would have your own. Yeah. If you really want the summer camp experience,

32:10 you could look for that. Exactly. You mentioned that food is a big component of this for you

32:16 and that you like Windstar. So what do you like about that? And which other lines would you go for

32:21 if you're a food person, food driven? There's so many and there's cruise lines that you would go

32:29 to for wine as well. I like variety. What I like on Windstar in particular is some of the cruises

32:38 actually will have a chef chosen by the James Beard Foundation on board, you know, doing cooking

32:45 classes and all that. And, you know, that's lovely experience. They also have a tapas bar and,

32:52 you know, also a restaurant that focuses really on, well, there's French cuisine, but they also

32:59 always have dishes prepared with local ingredients. And what I particularly enjoy on that line and

33:06 other lines are market tours with the ship's chef, which has become a new thing where they will go

33:11 off and they will purchase ingredients. And I was on the Seabourn ship in the Middle East

33:18 and the chef went off looking for fish and couldn't quite find what he was looking for at the

33:25 market in terms of quality and the amount he would need to feed everyone on board. But he did have

33:31 quite a discussion with somebody selling dates and walked away with a barrel of dates. And, you know,

33:37 it's kind of like, will the passengers eat all those dates? And he said, "Oh, Fran, you forget

33:43 that there's crew on board. What the passengers will eat, the crew will eat in terms of those

33:49 wonderful dates." So that's amazing. Okay. Yeah. The market tour. What a great way to see

33:57 a new city or town. Well, exactly. And when you're with a chef who, you know, speaks the language or

34:03 has an interpreter and really, I mean, I was with a chef who picked tomatoes at a market in Nice,

34:09 you know, it's just like the whole process of him tasting and fussing and making sure everything was

34:15 particularly right. I just really enjoy that. But there's almost all the luxury lines, Regent,

34:22 Crystal, Seabourn, Silversea, Explora, Ritz-Carlton, they put an emphasis on wonderful food.

34:31 And, you know, on those lines in particular, you're going to find the truffles and the foie gras

34:37 and the caviar. But in addition to that, in the mainstream lines, you know, they are also now

34:44 focusing a bit on sustainable products. So Holland America in particular is only serving fresh Alaska

34:53 seafood in Alaska. And they've recently translated that program. So they're going to actually pick

34:59 up fish on itineraries around the world. So you will be able to sample, you know, fresh fish from

35:07 where you're cruising. And the cruise lines are also pretty good about now getting on wine from

35:13 the regions where you're cruising. So you can try Greek wines in Greece, you can try Australian wines

35:21 in Australia. So that's another thing they're really focusing on that, you know, for the aspect

35:27 of sustainability and also because, you know, people are more curious about food. We've all

35:32 become foodies and we want that experience. And why not? You're there. Why not align in that way,

35:38 right? And then someone tell you a little bit about the winemaking or the region.

35:42 Exactly. I mean, I've always, I mean, I can't go on a cruise and not eat locally for lunch or

35:48 whatever. That's just, you know, what I do. And often what I do is, you know, go into a shop and

35:55 ask the shopkeeper where to eat. So I really, you know, get that authentic experience. But another

36:01 thing I've learned is you can look for local blogs. And even if you have to translate them,

36:07 you could find some wonderful local food blogs around the world that will lead you in the right

36:11 direction. That's a great tip. Well, we touched on it just a moment ago, but what about river

36:17 cruises specifically? Which would you recommend? Well, river cruises are the original slow travel,

36:24 right? You know, Cleopatra on the Nile. And, you know, a lot of people focus on the river cruises

36:31 in Europe, which are wonderful. I personally, my favorite route is from Budapest to Bucharest,

36:37 where you get to see Serbia and Bulgaria and, you know, and some of Croatia. And it's just a really

36:47 interesting itinerary. And then, of course, you're in Romania. So people tend to do the route between

36:56 Germany and Budapest, but consider doing the whole Danube. And same with the Rhine. You can do

37:02 pieces of it or you can do the whole thing. And, you know, from Amsterdam, you can actually, well,

37:08 there's other rivers involved too, but you can go from Amsterdam to Basel, Switzerland,

37:13 for a comprehensive experience. But there are also river cruises out elsewhere. And in April,

37:19 some friends of mine and I, five couples traveling together, were on a Dahabia in Egypt,

37:25 which is, you know, a traditional sailing boat. And it was just such a magical, casual, relaxed,

37:32 wonderful experience. All our meals were out on deck and it was hot, you know, in terms of touring

37:39 the ancient sites. But just, you know, really wonderful experience, a heartfelt crew, dressed

37:47 traditionally. And, you know, so there are other experiences on the river. And Mekong is wonderful

37:54 through Cambodia and Vietnam. Although you have to be prepared there to hear the history, and you're

38:00 going to hear the honest history. And, you know, other rivers around the world. So you can also

38:07 cruise in the U.S. on rivers, on the Mississippi or Colombian Snake, for instance. So, you know,

38:15 so if you like river cruising and you try it once in Europe, then also look at other places.

38:20 I recommend a cruise through Bordeaux, but you might not remember much of it.

38:24 Yeah. Just take lots of photos.

38:29 All those, just take photos of all those wine labels.

38:33 Yes. Good tip. Well, what about like the really nitty gritty details, like the single supplements

38:43 and the all-inclusive versus not? How do you navigate that? And it just seems like that's

38:48 a bit of a mystery to me. Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, my matter of personal taste. Do you

38:54 order the poo-poo platter and get everything or do you go, you know, separately, a la carte?

39:02 The all-inclusives provide sort of more of a, I don't know, no-brainer experience, but, you know,

39:09 because you don't have to keep worrying about what you're spending. On the other hand, you are paying

39:15 for the shore excursions that you'll be doing and the wine and beer you'll be drinking, you know,

39:20 in the fair. That said, I mean, I think for especially somebody that hasn't done a lot of

39:27 travel, Viking does a great job with their river ships and their ocean ships in giving you a

39:34 handheld experience with shore excursions in every port and good lecturers and, you know, excellent

39:41 food and all that, you know, and a value-added price that includes your tips and Wi-Fi and

39:47 everything. You can choose to do ships on a semi all-inclusive basis. Like, for instance, if you're

39:54 a big drinker, you might want to buy a drinks package so you don't have to worry about that.

39:59 Sometimes you can get a discount if you buy several shore excursions. You know, so it's

40:05 really a matter of personal taste. With the single supplement, a lot of cruise lines have gotten more

40:10 generous with their solo pricing. Oh, that's good. So, if you're looking at a particular cruise line,

40:17 I would first look to see if they have a posted deal on their website. If they don't, I would

40:22 call their reservations and see what you can negotiate. That's sort of an unknown little

40:27 tidbit because if a cruise ship is not full and they just assume have one person in the cabin,

40:34 then no one. So, you may, you know, it has traditionally been if you were a solo traveler,

40:40 you may get charged both fares. They're not really as committed, I mean, they are committed to that on,

40:45 again, sold out sailings, of course, but it's not the case on every sailing. So, I would always call

40:52 a cruise line if I'm a solo traveler and don't see a solo deal. I would call and see what they can do

40:56 for me or call a good travel agent who will know how to navigate that. I mean, that's another thing.

41:02 Cruises can be complicated. You know, you'll be asked on some ships, for instance, to figure out

41:08 what time you want to eat or make dining reservations. Or, you know, again, there's an

41:13 array of shore excursions. You can pick spa treatments. Sometimes you can and should book

41:19 those in advance. So, if you could find a travel agent that really has cruise experience, I would

41:25 recommend that. Okay, because they can help basically kind of filter what you want and need

41:31 and then take care of booking and reserving everything. Yeah, they can be your navigator.

41:36 I mean, the cruise puns are endless in your world. It's really, you really have to like rein yourself

41:44 in. I do. That's great. Okay, cool. Is there such a thing as a like an off season or a shoulder

41:52 season for cruising? Absolutely. And the best time to go is right before, you know, beginning of

42:00 December, right before the holidays because everybody's busy sending out cards and packing

42:06 and not necessarily cruising. And right before Thanksgiving, not during Thanksgiving and

42:11 Christmas and Hanukkah and New Year's, but right before any major holiday. The other times,

42:20 when the kids go back to school in the summer, so by mid-September anyway, you're going to see

42:28 some really good deals then as well. Okay, and so that could be a good time like as a solo traveler

42:33 too to consider booking some of these. Yeah, but I would always, again, you know, here's how you

42:39 can tell. You go to a cruise website such as iCruise.com or there's many others, you know,

42:46 a cruise seller, and you put in the ship and the destination that you want to go to, or maybe you

42:52 don't even put the ship, just put the destination and see what deals they have because you'll see a

42:59 wide array, you know, a ship that maybe is trying to sell for $7,000 may suddenly be $2,500 if

43:06 they're not full, right? So, I mean, there's that kind of range. So again, working with an agent,

43:12 they can help you navigate that again as well, but you can also just look online and compare,

43:20 and it's pretty easy to figure out what cruises are not full. Got it. Okay, great. Well, we talked

43:29 about this at the very beginning. I would love your tips on navigating seasickness. What do you

43:34 bring? What's in your kit? I bring, I literally bring everything I can think of. You know,

43:41 and it's funny because a friend of mine just told me that a dramamine, I believe, is making

43:46 something with ginger now. Ginger has never been the be-all, end-all, but one thing I do do on board

43:51 is, you know, just because it's supposed to be the homeopathic remedy, I will seek out pickled

43:58 ginger or candied ginger or ginger ale on board, and I think in mild cases that may help. I've had

44:05 some success with wristbands. The harder plastic ones seem to work better for me than the ones with

44:13 a stretchy band for whatever reason, and you know, with the medications, I think it's important to

44:21 test a few different ones for yourself to see your tolerance in terms of getting sleepy. Yeah. And,

44:29 and you know, for me, what I do is I put myself on a maintenance dose of like a half tablet of

44:36 dramamine, you know, just to see, you know, what the water is going to be like, and if, you know,

44:41 once I get my sea legs, I might drop it or I might up it. I can't do two tabs of dramamine. I will

44:48 be in bed. And, and you also, by the way, if you're doing any medication, have to be concerned about

44:53 drinking too much. So you might want to have that one glass of wine, but no more. Maybe don't buy

44:59 the drinks package. Yeah, exactly. I mean, the transderm patch I've had some luck with, it makes

45:07 me very, very thirsty, so I have to drink lots of water on it. Yeah. But, you know, I bring a

45:13 combination. Great. Yes. Yeah. We use the patches on our Antarctic journey and that helped. I had,

45:20 I put it on like maybe a day in because all of a sudden it just hit me out of nowhere. And we

45:26 have the Drake Lake as well, but, and that seemed to help, but we did have the dry mouth. Right. And

45:32 the other thing that you can do, obviously, if you're really feeling ill or you're not prepared,

45:37 is go to the ship's doctor and they will have an injection they can give you. Okay. And, and by the

45:43 way, also they will have a stock of tablets. I mean, I've been on some ships, a bad sign when

45:49 you're on a ship is when they put out a bowl of, of seasickness tablets. You know, it's not,

45:56 things aren't looking good. But the captain, so one thing is to, and you can, you can somewhat

46:01 predict because the captain will come on, online on the speaker system, usually at noon every day.

46:09 And, and often they will tell you what the prediction for waves is coming up. I mean,

46:16 I personally have a tolerance for five to seven foot. Once it goes above eight or nine,

46:22 I start really feeling it. So you can get some hints from what the captain is saying.

46:27 Okay. Listen to the captain. Have you, well, I shouldn't bring up triangle of sadness. Did you

46:38 ever watch that, that movie? I did. I actually thought it was hysterical, but you know,

46:44 yes. Well, it's funny because yes, I watched it recently and my sister was about to get on a ship

46:50 and I was like, you're crazy to watch this right before you go. But that was, that's an epic one.

46:55 Do you think green apple works? Have you had any success? No, but not particularly that. And that

47:01 was what, you know, my, my great aunts used to give me hard, sour candies, you know, in the back

47:06 of the car. But what really helps, I'm glad you asked that, is having a full stomach and it's

47:11 totally counterintuitive. But if you're not feeling well, eat. Oh, interesting. You know,

47:18 bread, crackers, something like that. Having a full stomach does help with the equilibrium,

47:24 at least in my case, you know, I'm not a doctor. Yeah, exactly. But you know, it's, you know,

47:30 so I will reach for that green apple if I'm hungry, you know, just to have something in my

47:36 stomach. And I have to admit to, of all my years traveling, you know, and with the medications,

47:41 I've very rarely actually been sick, you know, only on one or two cruises. I remember a particular

47:47 one off the coast of Corsica. So I have to, I have to think that, that, and one in Baja,

47:54 you know, Mexico, off Baja, Mexico. But I have to think that, you know, being cautious with the

48:00 full stomach might have something to do with that. So yeah, yeah. And you're, you come prepared. So

48:05 that's smart. Well, just looking ahead, I know you don't have a crystal ball, but what do you,

48:11 what do you think the future of cruising looks like? I think that there's, there's some prototypes

48:19 out for, for ships, you know, they are building, ships last about 30 years. So the ships that

48:24 they're building now, you know, will still be around by 2050. But I think, you know, cruise

48:29 lines, again, in terms of propulsion, we'll look at everything. Like you may even see carnival

48:34 cruise ships with wind turbines on top. There is a new collapsible wind turbine. So, you know,

48:45 that, so you can go under bridges, which would have been a factor, right? But I think you may

48:50 see that you may see solar panels on top. You may see in the future, less deck space because of the

48:56 wind turbines and solar panels. But you, I'm pretty sure you'll see electricity in there somehow.

49:04 Some of the ideas that I've heard, such as nuclear cruise ships, I don't think I really buy.

49:10 Nobody's announced that yet, but, but you will see as, as they develop again, green methanol,

49:17 green LNG, synthetic LNG, you'll definitely see a push to those because cruise lines, look, they

49:23 know their bread and butter is the ocean and they want to do the right thing. So, so, you know, when

49:31 you're talking about an industry that's focused outdoors to a certain extent, you're going to see

49:38 changes. I definitely think you'll see more sustainable food on board. I think you're also

49:45 going to see, and it's happened already, a real focus on cultural and nature excursions and ports

49:52 of call that are also sustainable and, you know, really focused deeply, not just on history, which

50:00 has been sort of a thing for a long time, but on learning about the people and the places you're

50:04 visiting. Love it. We'll see you out there on the high seas. For sure. Let's do it. Well, thank you

50:13 so much for your time, Fran. I appreciate it. Thank you. Okay, that was our show. Don't forget

50:19 to hit like and subscribe on your way out. And I'll include a link to the podcast below.

Unpacked: S3, E2: Where to Go On a Cruise—Even if You Don't Like Cruises

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