La Otra Realidad - Psicofonias - Vídeo Dailymotion

Paranormal  Historias y Enigmas del Más Allá

paranormal, fenómenos paranormales, actividad paranormal, investigaciones paranormales, fantasmas, espíritus, casas embrujadas, eventos inexplicables, apariciones, cazafantasmas, experiencias paranormales, lo sobrenatural, misterios sin resolver, vida después de la muerte, fenómenos sobrenaturales, evidencia paranormal, avistamientos de fantasmas, fenómenos inexplicables, entidades paranormales, sucesos extraños

Transcript

00:00:00Welcome to the other reality. In these programs we will deal with topics that, without ceasing to be real, constitute a mystery, topics that escape our understanding or that have not yet found their place among the issues that science studies.

00:00:26Basically, each program will consist of a report, divided into two parts, and a colloquium. A colloquium with guests who are experts in the subject of each day.

00:00:37It will not be a debate, we will not look for confrontations, but it will be a discussion in which each of the guests will express their hypotheses, experiences, opinions and anecdotes, so that at the end of each program you have elements of sufficient judgment to draw your own conclusions.

00:00:58As this is the first program, we are going to start with the end, with death. Or rather, with a topic that for many is related to death. I mean psychophonies. Let's see the first part of the report.

00:01:15The man has already embarked on his space adventure. Driven by a feeling that separates him from the rest of the animal species, he is unable to stand still, to adapt to the here and now. His anguish pushes him to know, to know, to seek his own origin, even beyond the stars.

00:01:40Throughout the last millennia, we have come a long way. Our advances in society and technology were unimaginable a few centuries ago. We know more and more about the infinitely small and the infinitely large.

00:01:59But we still have no answer to the most disturbing and transcendental question. Is there something after death?

00:02:10It is not a new issue. It worries man since he was aware of himself. The old cultures solved it in their own way, supporting the idea that the body is only a temporary shelter for the soul, for the spirit, which after death is finally free.

00:02:27Our memories, our feelings, everything that constitutes our personality did not die. It undertook a new path, a new stage of existence.

00:02:38With that conviction as a starting point, more and more structured, more powerful religions emerged, which used, and still use, the destiny of the soul as a commodity.

00:02:49Hells, atrocious and eternal, only imaginable by the most sadistic minds, as punishment for the unfaithful or disobedient, and heavens full of sensuality, of physical pleasure, or of an abstract spiritual fullness, along with the divinity of turn for those who fulfilled the rules and were docile sheep of the flock.

00:03:12The Industrial Revolution introduced new customs and concepts. With the machines, new ideas also appeared, and others that had remained or were judged were resurrected.

00:03:23In parallel to the approaches of the different churches, others emerged that contemplated the immortality of the soul from a perspective alien to the religious.

00:03:32In the middle of the 19th century, modern spiritism began in a house in Hydesville, New York. As if those who were on the other side of death had decided that it was time to intervene, they began to communicate with the living.

00:03:47It was a kind of hurricane that swept away all conventionalisms in its wake. The halls of America and Europe opened their doors at the same time to the watchmen and talking tables, to the means that materialized spirits, or to the tables of Ouija, and to any means that served to facilitate that communication with the dead who, from the other world, seemed eager to resume their ties with the living.

00:04:18Many years have passed since then, but although without the social repercussion that it had in times, spiritism remains valid as a practice and as a philosophy.

00:04:28However, the most significant change, the most spectacular contribution to that alleged contact with the world of spirits, has paradoxically come through electronics. Without mediums in trance, without tables or talking boards, simply through the magnetophone, those who crossed the border of death have decided neither more nor less than to be heard.

00:05:28This story has a protagonist, Friedrich Jürgenson, and a date, June 12, 1959. That day, Jürgenson, painter and documentary filmmaker, traveled to a forest in Sweden. His goal was to record the singing of the birds, to use it as a background in one of his films about nature.

00:05:50When he considered it appropriate, he made a stop on his way and let the small portable magnetophone record the ambient sound for a few minutes.

00:06:00Already at home, when he heard it recorded, he was taken by the unpleasant surprise that, along with the singing of various birds, human voices were heard. As during his tour of the forest he had not seen any person, he thought that the tape was defective.

00:06:20The next day, after thoroughly checking his tape recorder and making sure that he was using a virgin tape, he returned to the forest. Every time he turned on the magnetophone, he made sure that there were no other noises than those of nature. However, when he heard it recorded, the voices were there again, even clearer. And one of them, addressing him in Norwegian, was precisely talking to him about birds.

00:06:48Those voices would follow others, even those of his own mother. Voices that tried to show him that they came from another world, that they were from dead people a long time ago, that they gave him their names, those of their living relatives, voices of deceased people who, at all costs, wanted to be heard.

00:07:10One of the first to pay attention to his investigations was the German parapsychologist Hans Bender. From his hand, specialists were incorporated into the work in the most diverse branches and institutions such as the University of Fribourg or the Masplan Institute in Munich collaborated. None of them doubted the transcendence of that phenomenon.

00:07:32Then Constantin Raudive entered the scene, who, like Jürgenson, came to record a psychophony with the voice of his own mother, who called him by the affectionate name he used when he was alive, Gosti.

00:07:45The enthusiasm and tenacity of this researcher was such that, at his death in 1974, he recorded so many of those strange voices that for a long time they have been known in parapsychological environments as the voices of Raudive.

00:08:04Professor Germán de Argumosa, one of the first and most eminent Spanish parapsychologists, had a great friendship with him.

00:08:12He was a doctor at several foreign universities, and among them, I repeat, in philosophy, he had his doctorate here in Spain. He spoke, it seems to me, seven languages.

00:08:28He had an extraordinary culture, extraordinary. A great Spanish speaker. He had translated the works of Arletón completely in reserve.

00:08:47He also shared with him many anecdotes of some psychophonies.

00:08:50Suddenly, when we rolled up the tape, we found a male voice saying the following,

00:09:04Raudive, I would like to drink from your wine. In an experience that we carried out with students from the University of Friburgo in Visigothia,

00:09:20students from Rojas Bender, in his faculty of psychology, when we rolled up the tape, after having let it pass in silence, we also found a male voice

00:09:42who was lamenting, what envy I have of you. The two of us thought he was referring to those traumatic girls who were surrounding us, of course.

00:10:01And they even shared some secrets, such as the tragic death of another researcher whose circumstances were never published.

00:10:10So, a Swedish scientist, very interested in parapsychology, begins to do paraphonic experiments.

00:10:23Unfortunately, his wife dies young, without children. He is devastated.

00:10:39And a few days after his wife's death, in one of these experiments, he hears a female voice that he said reminded him a lot of his wife's voice.

00:11:01He hears that female voice inviting him to commit suicide. This is wonderful. And he committed suicide.

00:11:18Look at the risk that paranormal phenomena have. You can't play with them. You have to have a very cold head to enter that world, and very warm nerves.

00:11:44Well, I think that with what has appeared in that first part of the report, there are enough topics to start a conversation.

00:11:52But it is necessary to introduce you to our guests tonight. Andres Averasturi, journalist, a man with common sense, who is very afraid of all these things, as he says.

00:12:04Panic, directly.

00:12:07And he is going to contribute, I hope, a dose of wisdom in these debates, in these interviews.

00:12:15And he is going to represent, to some extent, the opinion of those who are on the other side of the screen.

00:12:20He is going to ask the questions, or he is going to think that you are doing it at home, or he is going to lower the level if we are talking about excessive technicisms.

00:12:29Sinésio Darnel, who is a world authority on the subject of psychophonies and psychoimaging. 25 years investigating these topics.

00:12:40Psychophony is one of the most well-known. Whether he wants it or not, he has become the teacher of many other researchers who, later than him, have started in the field of psychophonies.

00:12:52I think he has a deep knowledge of the subject. There are many anecdotes that I hope will come out throughout the interview.

00:13:02Pedro Amoros, who is the president of the Spanish Association for Psychological Research. 15 or 16 years investigating psychophonies, thousands of them.

00:13:12And also with your point of view, with your opinion, with your hypotheses, which we will later expose, or expose here, and which we will discuss.

00:13:21And Fernando Rosillo. Fernando Rosillo, good evening.

00:13:26Together with José Luis Tajada and José Martínez, you constitute a research group of young people who provide different knowledge in electronics, in computer science.

00:13:40Your thing is economics, you are finishing economics.

00:13:44Yes, I am a bit of finance.

00:13:46You have the accounts, you spend them on experimentation.

00:13:49But in a short time, in a few years, if you have been investigating, you have already acquired a reputation for being rigorous, serious, methodical, and to apply very exhaustively the current techniques for the study of psychophony.

00:14:03I don't know if you remember how that first part of the report ended, but there is a phrase by Professor Germán de Argumosa that I think deserves consideration.

00:14:14And perhaps, having the opinion of our guests, these types of topics can be dangerous, the investigation of these issues.

00:14:23One can get emotionally hooked in another way in that matter.

00:14:27Now we see it. We are going to start the conversation.

00:14:32And what I would ask you four is that you interrupt, that you speak as you want, that you stay as much as possible.

00:14:42If you want to stick together, please.

00:14:46Well, Inésio.

00:14:48Well, I think so. It depends a lot on the training of those who experiment.

00:14:54Personally, I know the case of a girl who lost her husband in very unfortunate circumstances.

00:15:02They had been married for three months. She became addicted to psychophony and the voice that she wanted to recognize as her husband's incited her to suicide.

00:15:13To such an extent that she attempted suicide. They saved her by the hair.

00:15:18What should never be done is to believe everything they tell us, much less to try to personalize too much the voice that answers us or can tell us something.

00:15:29And never to use these communication techniques, something like a home religion or a type of philosophy.

00:15:37It is a phenomenon that we have studied, taking into account that it can happen that we are the ones who manipulate the phenomenon, and the phenomenon manipulates us.

00:15:50It's not bad. It's a phrase that goes very well.

00:15:53I keep asking myself, what is a psychophony for?

00:15:56I understand. That's a good question.

00:15:58All the messages I've heard are absolutely inconexious, incoherent.

00:16:04Yes, mom, fear. And me, I don't know what. The sky is very beautiful. They are very tragic, but they don't contribute anything.

00:16:12It depends. It depends. A loose psychophony cannot contribute anything.

00:16:16But when you follow an experiment, a series of questions that, once answered, you come to conclusions,

00:16:22then at least it can tell you that we are not as lonely as we think we are.

00:16:29For some people it can be important, for others not.

00:16:32In any case, for whom would they serve? For those who emit the voices or for those who receive them?

00:16:36For whom is the psychophony more necessary?

00:16:39For all those people who are curious.

00:16:42That's an obvious answer.

00:16:44When I was writing the script for that first part of the report,

00:16:49what I was saying is that I had the impression that they were waiting to have an opportunity to manifest themselves in this reality.

00:16:58But we are talking about them, we are talking about what they really are.

00:17:02Well, wait a minute. We have a semantic problem.

00:17:06It is to talk about them as to talk about longitudes and waves as frequencies.

00:17:10There is no specific vocabulary.

00:17:11They are something that is intelligent, that answers our questions, that calls us by our name,

00:17:19and sometimes even warns us of dangers or puts us in danger.

00:17:25And I think this is important.

00:17:27But those things are already very fat.

00:17:29They are intelligent, they have their own sense of humor.

00:17:33That also applies to you.

00:17:36We are referring to some voices that are recorded in magnetophones,

00:17:41that do not respond to any conventional, normal cause.

00:17:45They are not radio waves, nor television programs.

00:17:49No, they are voices from somewhere that are intelligent,

00:17:54that intervene in human issues, they answer us, they say things.

00:17:59It is true, and what I would also like to do is to put the pieces on the ground.

00:18:04Although Andrés is already going to put it on the ground, I agree.

00:18:06The pieces on the ground are simply to expose that the researchers

00:18:12that we have been for at least many years dedicated to carry out this study of psychophonies

00:18:18and the field of transcommunication,

00:18:20we do not allow ourselves to be carried away by anything that is heard.

00:18:24We have to have a rigor, we have to turn our heads over our shoulders,

00:18:29and not open our brains too much, as a good friend told me,

00:18:32otherwise we will fall one day.

00:18:34So, why?

00:18:36So that they do not take us because a person who has said one thing has said another.

00:18:41Well, I have a very different opinion.

00:18:43The researcher must be cold and must have his head over his shoulders

00:18:49and not let himself be carried away by what he believes or what he has thought

00:18:53that a voice could tell him.

00:18:55Yes, but I imagine, sorry Pedro, that it is not so easy to be cold.

00:19:00You told me before starting the program an experience of yours

00:19:04in which at a certain moment you said, well, I want some proof.

00:19:08And what happened?

00:19:10Well, I tell a little bit of the case to expose it.

00:19:13Well, one day I left a recording of a television program

00:19:17and I got home a little angry.

00:19:19Well, you say things that maybe you would not have said.

00:19:22And I sat down in front of my studio, I put on the devices and I said,

00:19:26well, if there is someone here, hello, I'm Pedro,

00:19:30give me a proof that I really exist.

00:19:32Because despite so many years, I personally also doubt existence.

00:19:37And well, a deep voice answered me,

00:19:41for those devices that I had on and told me, hello Pedro, I'm dead.

00:19:45Tell me why you think I'm dead.

00:19:48This overwhelmed me.

00:19:50Well.

00:19:52It overwhelmed me because ...

00:19:54It's not a psychophony.

00:19:56I was commenting, Andrés, words or very short phrases.

00:19:59This is a long phrase.

00:20:01There is an aspect there, sorry, I interrupted you.

00:20:04No, no, it's what impacted me, right?

00:20:06No, it's not.

00:20:08The saying, what happens next?

00:20:10What do you say to this?

00:20:12Do you realize that really this energy or whatever it is

00:20:15that speaks to us from that other side,

00:20:17well, it thinks, it has intelligence.

00:20:19It knew how to call me.

00:20:21And what did you say to it?

00:20:23Well, it was very curious because I turned off all the equipment

00:20:26and I went to think, I went to take a walk.

00:20:29And when I returned, I turned on the equipment

00:20:32and like the one who speaks out of nowhere,

00:20:36I said, well, if you're listening to me,

00:20:38I explained a little bit and I said, well, I'm Pedro again

00:20:41and I don't know where you are or how you died or why.

00:20:44But, well, there was nothing.

00:20:46And I was overwhelmed.

00:20:48Something happens to me, sorry,

00:20:49but I'm so polite, so correct,

00:20:52that you don't intervene like that.

00:20:54No, I have to be polite.

00:20:56Now, wait, I'm going to say it.

00:20:58Because I don't want you to forget something very important.

00:21:01We agree that a psychophony of those characteristics,

00:21:04like that of Pedro's, is not normal.

00:21:07Such a long phrase is not usual.

00:21:09It's not usual, but it's not exceptional.

00:21:11It's not exceptional, but it's not usual.

00:21:13You said that the researcher has to have a cold head

00:21:16and has to be very rational.

00:21:17However, you have a magnificent result

00:21:20when you are not in a cold attitude, but emotional.

00:21:24You get home and you get angry, as you say.

00:21:27You arrive with strong feelings.

00:21:29And that provokes an answer.

00:21:32Maybe they are expecting less asepsis in the investigation,

00:21:36whoever it is.

00:21:38Maybe they are more interested in feeling.

00:21:40Sure, sure.

00:21:42That's true.

00:21:43I think that the more technology, the more prevention,

00:21:48and looking for more applied techniques,

00:21:51the number of psychokinesis decreases.

00:21:54On the other hand, when you act out of desire, out of affection,

00:21:58simply to know something more,

00:22:00the answer is more abundant.

00:22:03There is no...

00:22:05When you have more desire to be answered...

00:22:08But I don't want to say that no researcher,

00:22:10at least me and those I know,

00:22:13dare to say exactly what psychokinesis is.

00:22:16We dare to say that the phenomenon exists.

00:22:19What we cannot say,

00:22:21nor should we impose criteria, nor dogmatize,

00:22:24is in terms of the origin of that psychokinesis.

00:22:28But it's important.

00:22:30You don't dare to say what it is, but you do dare to say what it isn't.

00:22:33What it isn't.

00:22:35Well, at the moment, according to the investigations

00:22:37that are taking place at the national or global level,

00:22:41Sinesio has been going on for many more years,

00:22:44they are not radio waves.

00:22:47They are not conversations of people who are there at that moment.

00:22:51We normally talk about valid psychokinesis.

00:22:53That, for example, we know that they are not psychokinesis.

00:22:56But really, I agree with what Sinesio said

00:22:59in terms of what psychokinesis is.

00:23:02The definition cannot be given because you talk about a phenomenon

00:23:04that you don't know the origin, how it is produced, what produces it.

00:23:09So you cannot define something that you don't know.

00:23:12Anyway, I did want to say before, Sinesio said that,

00:23:15at the technical level, the more technical devices,

00:23:19the lower the number of psychokinesis obtained.

00:23:22I agree with him, but personally I think it is necessary.

00:23:25Why is it necessary?

00:23:27Because with more control, more security,

00:23:30what you get are more valid results.

00:23:32Fernando, too much technicality.

00:23:35Let's see, at home I have a lot of devices,

00:23:38for everything, from measurers, well, everything imaginable.

00:23:42And honestly, when I get more psychokinesis,

00:23:45it is when I charge my little microphone, I go to the field,

00:23:48and in an eucalyptus forest, between breaking the leaves,

00:23:51which forms a phenomenal carrier for psychokinesis,

00:23:54I take my microphone, I put it there with the microphone,

00:23:58and I get very clear psychokinesis.

00:24:00So, the technique helps decoding the voices,

00:24:04the analysis, but not the level of attention.

00:24:07It depends, filtration also does a lot.

00:24:10Imagine that one day, for example,

00:24:13in certain climatic conditions,

00:24:16the voices can reach a distance of 15, 20, 30 kilometers,

00:24:20and you don't hear them, and yet the magnetic field...

00:24:23That is easily clarified.

00:24:26The best psychokinesis I have obtained

00:24:28is with a simple pocket magnetophone.

00:24:31Where apparatusology is needed,

00:24:34it is the moment to reproduce the analysis,

00:24:37that is, the moment to make the sonogram.

00:24:40To make a sonogram, the apparatus costs 2 million pesos.

00:24:43I'm going to interrupt you.

00:24:46Although you are here, we are going to introduce

00:24:49a very brief report that we did in your laboratory,

00:24:52so that the viewers have a little idea

00:24:55of how these issues are investigated,

00:24:58let's see it.

00:25:01We are using one of the programs,

00:25:06practically a sound professional.

00:25:09This first voice that we are going to hear,

00:25:12which I have repeated on different occasions,

00:25:15is a voice that, while the computer was running,

00:25:18and while I was testing some connections,

00:25:21a voice comes in,

00:25:24which, with great clarity, calls my attention,

00:25:26saying, listen.

00:25:29Listen.

00:25:32Listen.

00:25:35Listen.

00:25:38Listen.

00:25:41This program allows me to transform,

00:25:44at a certain moment,

00:25:47the voice into a color graph,

00:25:50in which the different tones,

00:25:52simple tones,

00:25:55acquire different shades of color.

00:25:58This allows us to carry out

00:26:01a chromatic study of the voice

00:26:04and establish differences with other voices.

00:26:07I think you can hear this psychophony perfectly.

00:26:10We will move on to listen to another, also famous.

00:26:13I don't keep many, because there comes a time

00:26:16when psychophony itself has no interest.

00:26:19What is of interest is the methodology,

00:26:22and how it is produced.

00:26:25On one occasion,

00:26:28I was also, in this case,

00:26:31doing psychophony,

00:26:34and a voice insults me,

00:26:37which is common among experimenters,

00:26:40when someone messes with us.

00:26:43In this case, they called me and said,

00:26:46something like decrepit, or something like that.

00:26:49I said, you will be that.

00:26:52He apologizes, saying, I have not been.

00:26:55We will select,

00:26:58and listen.

00:27:01It's not me.

00:27:11I think you understand perfectly, right?

00:27:16Well, I repeat it,

00:27:19but I really said it only once, it's not me.

00:27:22Let's see if you can hear it better.

00:27:28This one,

00:27:31is already conducted in this case,

00:27:34because I already asked a question.

00:27:37One of the attractions of psychophony

00:27:40is probably that,

00:27:43apart from that meticulous research,

00:27:46which we will talk about later,

00:27:49how much it costs to install a laboratory,

00:27:52and very rudimentary, very affordable instruments,

00:27:55such as a portable magnetophone.

00:27:58You are also telling me that good psychophonies are obtained like this.

00:28:01Well, you can not cover two ranges.

00:28:04There are researchers who need all this kind of devices,

00:28:07and all this technology,

00:28:10and then there are the purely amateurs.

00:28:13You will never record psychophonies.

00:28:16It occurs to me,

00:28:18I have heard some messages,

00:28:21and well, it's amazing,

00:28:24especially for the person who receives it.

00:28:27I have a very good friend who received a message.

00:28:30Anyway,

00:28:33you should do an analysis with a sonogram.

00:28:36Yes, of course.

00:28:39A sonogram is a device that costs a thousand and a bit of money.

00:28:42At least I can not buy it.

00:28:45And with a sonogram,

00:28:48you know perfectly well

00:28:51if that voice is human,

00:28:54or produced by a throat or a nose,

00:28:57or it is not.

00:29:00Well, someone of you gives me a review,

00:29:03or gives us a review of what the hypotheses have been.

00:29:06It starts, as we saw in the report, Jürgenson,

00:29:09I do not know if there was someone before him,

00:29:12or at the same time,

00:29:15but from a popular point of view,

00:29:18there is no such thing as psychophonic inclusions.

00:29:21The first thing one does

00:29:24before reaching a transcendental hypothesis

00:29:27is to ask yourself those things.

00:29:30I will be recording a radio station,

00:29:33I will be recording a telephone conversation,

00:29:36I will be recording a guard with his walkie-talkie,

00:29:39who is talking ...

00:29:42Sure, but you, for example, if you are using a frequency scanner,

00:29:45which you do a complete sweep of the frequency,

00:29:48that is interfering, and that is what you are singing.

00:29:51You will use that, but I do not even know what a sweep scanner is.

00:29:54I will go with the little walkie-talkie, I say, to the people,

00:29:57to us and to our viewers,

00:30:00how can they be assured

00:30:03when they are going to make a psychophony

00:30:06that they are recording something that is not ...

00:30:09The simple processes, which is what has always been done,

00:30:12is to go noting, to be well aware of your environment,

00:30:15to go noting the possible noises,

00:30:18to go noting the possible noises,

00:30:21but a way, after all, to start,

00:30:24but we, I insist again,

00:30:27we think that it is very important

00:30:30everything that is the technique a posteriori, but also a priori.

00:30:33Yes, but there is an important and interesting thing.

00:30:36If we had to have the scientific and technical contribution

00:30:39to be able to evaluate a psychophonic recording,

00:30:42it would be very difficult and impossible.

00:30:45We would need an empty camera,

00:30:48to survey an area and so on,

00:30:51to make sure that there are no birds,

00:30:54that is, everything leads to the fact that everything itself,

00:30:57the context, the environment, the place in which a psychophony is recorded,

00:31:00and I have had phenomenal psychophonies

00:31:03with groups of people talking.

00:31:06Why? Because then, gradually,

00:31:09I have taken the voices of each one, I have compared them

00:31:12and I have realized that there was a voice that was not from any of them.

00:31:15And that has happened to me, it has happened to many researchers.

00:31:18And that is the support.

00:31:21For me, the best system is the microphone,

00:31:24to make sure that no one speaks in the vicinity and let it record.

00:31:27And then, the simplest and cheapest way to know

00:31:30if it is a psychophony or a psychophony is the content of the recording.

00:31:33Exactly.

00:31:35My name is very strange, my name is Silencio.

00:31:38If the voice comes out and says to me, Silencio, I'm looking at you,

00:31:41I guess that at that moment there will be no radio

00:31:44that will be saying my name.

00:31:46But if you listen to the sound, you realize that it is being directed at you.

00:31:49And then you accept that it is a psychophony.

00:31:52That phenomenon that we are studying.

00:31:55That by default.

00:31:58As for the sound of nature,

00:32:01as you said about the isolation of Faraday and the acoustics,

00:32:04in the Sanecoic chamber,

00:32:07there is no sound coming in, no harpsichord, no class,

00:32:10psychophonies are put.

00:32:13Of low intensity, because you know better than me

00:32:16that from a background noise the psychophony rises.

00:32:19And it is because the psychophony needs three things.

00:32:22It needs an intelligence, an energy,

00:32:25and a physical support where the phenomenon is registered.

00:32:28The intelligence, we do not know what it is, it is there.

00:32:31Whatever it is.

00:32:34The energy is a background noise, a buzz,

00:32:37an earthy wave, the noise of the wind.

00:32:40Because you notice perfectly how, for example,

00:32:43a wave of a wind noise at a certain moment

00:32:46oscillates, the voice appears and returns to normal.

00:32:49To give you an idea,

00:32:52whoever speaks,

00:32:55needs a physical support.

00:32:58It needs to modulate, to model.

00:33:01Yes, to have an example.

00:33:04And then a physical support where that modulation manifests itself,

00:33:07whether it is a tape recorder or a video tape.

00:33:10To put it another way, I am intelligent.

00:33:13Well, we suppose.

00:33:16I need my intelligence to imagine a jar.

00:33:19A physical force in my arm to mold the jar.

00:33:22And a physical support where my intelligence can manifest itself,

00:33:25the mud.

00:33:28This happens in all communication phenomena.

00:33:31An intelligence, X, an energy, and a physical support.

00:33:34I insist,

00:33:37apart from the fact that I think it is magnificent,

00:33:40the humility of the researchers.

00:33:43That is, this is an intelligence, we do not know which.

00:33:46I think it is the most elementary of all.

00:33:49We have all the proofs, we have all the demonstrations,

00:33:52but who speaks?

00:33:55Ah, no?

00:33:58It is a dead man or nobody.

00:34:01I can have my criteria.

00:34:04Your criteria.

00:34:07But I am not able to impose my criteria on anyone.

00:34:10No, I ask you with all tranquility.

00:34:13We contact with a plane of life

00:34:16where there is, I repeat, intelligent life

00:34:19without the need for physical support.

00:34:22It would be a ghost in the common language.

00:34:25A spirit.

00:34:28An energy.

00:34:31I think the main problem in these issues is to try to mold everything

00:34:34to our physical concept.

00:34:37If they are going to answer in a megaphone,

00:34:40I will have to judge it from my megaphone.

00:34:43Yes, but for example, when you talk about concepts of physics,

00:34:46you can imagine, in this field the same thing happens.

00:34:49Energy levels, you mean?

00:34:52No, no, no, I'm talking about physics.

00:34:55For example, a radio wave is not seen and yet it is there.

00:34:58Then we talk about very subtle concepts, of course,

00:35:01and we measure this based on research and based on analysis.

00:35:04No, no, no, but I mean that here the difficult thing is to define

00:35:07when we talk, when Sinesio talks about energy,

00:35:10it is precisely that energy, we call it energy because we have no other word.

00:35:12No, no, no, I don't believe in energy alone, I believe in intelligence alone.

00:35:15No, no, no, I haven't said that.

00:35:18An intelligence that handles an energy,

00:35:21alien to itself, alien to its own intelligence,

00:35:24which can be alien, I mean.

00:35:27Sure.

00:35:30But you have said that this intelligence is not in a physical plane.

00:35:33No, well, it is in a known dimensional plane.

00:35:36There is a known dimensional plane.

00:35:39Of our three or four dimensions.

00:35:42I don't say they are spirits,

00:35:45but why do you show yourself so reluctant to use those terms

00:35:48that we all understand?

00:35:51Don't you want to mix one thing with another?

00:35:54Look, it's very simple, because being prudent,

00:35:57they charge us and get involved with us,

00:36:00imagine that we were not prudent,

00:36:03then you go crazy, then you go crazy.

00:36:06Until the tape recorder was invented, what did they do?

00:36:09It seems that Edison had obtained a recording

00:36:12until the tape recorder did not exist.

00:36:15Well, there they were waiting for us to be able to do it.

00:36:18Well, maybe.

00:36:21They communicated through bones, throwing them, and then ...

00:36:24And possibly, as science increases,

00:36:27technology will increase the ability to tell.

00:36:30Exactly.

00:36:33But it's curious, what I'm saying.

00:36:36At a certain moment, spiritism begins,

00:36:39in the middle of the last century,

00:36:42which is a game of cheap society,

00:36:45and the most interesting, the most attractive and suggestive,

00:36:48enters North America,

00:36:51and in Europe, like a hurricane,

00:36:54as we said in the report.

00:36:57I have been about 12 or 13 years

00:37:00deeply involved in the various forms of spiritism and all those things.

00:37:03But what is happening

00:37:06is happening with communication.

00:37:09Do you realize that,

00:37:12when we receive bank cards

00:37:15or direct advertising,

00:37:18we no longer receive letters from friends,

00:37:21written letters,

00:37:24we use the telephone, or now we use the internet.

00:37:27It seems that the spirits,

00:37:30those entities, those intelligences,

00:37:33also, when they appear,

00:37:36the psychophonies and the psychoimaging

00:37:39are, well, leaving in the background

00:37:42and it seems that they have also been incorporated into the technique.

00:37:45Yes, but Fernando, I don't want to demystify anything,

00:37:48because I know many phenomenal mediums,

00:37:51and there are people who do it in a great and very rigorous way.

00:37:54And when there is a medium,

00:37:57better psychophonies are recorded, is it easier?

00:38:00No, no, no, not at all.

00:38:03What the medium says is recorded.

00:38:06I have obtained psychophonies in many places,

00:38:09and in many mediums.

00:38:12I mean, if it generates an environment

00:38:15of those characteristics, it is easier

00:38:18to record psychophonies or not.

00:38:21Of course, but I ask,

00:38:24nowadays there are mediums, yes, I have seen them,

00:38:27that really make this type of contribution,

00:38:30this type of materialization.

00:38:33Maybe this is already very difficult to find.

00:38:36And, of course, having this type of raw material,

00:38:39and I don't like to call it that,

00:38:42but it can be detected in raps,

00:38:45poltergeist phenomena, and among them, psychophony.

00:38:48But I don't agree with what Fernando has said.

00:38:51You say, Fernando, that it seems that those energies

00:38:54are finding more comfort with the new technology,

00:38:57just like us.

00:39:00Will it be that we, when we use more technology,

00:39:03the energies will not be inside ourselves?

00:39:06No, look, as Inesio has said before,

00:39:09when the telephone was invented...

00:39:12Yes, when the telephone was invented,

00:39:15there were people who heard small blows,

00:39:18and there were people who thought they were the dead

00:39:21who wanted to communicate, so there were people

00:39:24who were dedicated to making devices and so on.

00:39:27Over the years, it was discovered that they were

00:39:30what has given rise to a whole science,

00:39:33which is radio astronomy.

00:39:36They were the pulsars in space,

00:39:39and it was precisely what was being captured.

00:39:42And it was the result of these psychophonies,

00:39:45until, if we are lucky, one day we can say,

00:39:48even if it is only by discarding, that it is a psychophony.

00:39:51Excuse me a moment.

00:39:54Excuse me, because we are giving for known things

00:39:57that probably for many of our viewers

00:40:00unfamiliar with this subject are unknown.

00:40:03When psychophonies began to be recorded,

00:40:06and the subject began to acquire the relevance

00:40:09that it has had afterwards,

00:40:12whether they were spurious waves

00:40:15or recordings of another kind,

00:40:18one of the ideas that was in vogue,

00:40:21and that I believe some parapsychologists

00:40:24still maintain, is that of psychokinesis,

00:40:27which is that the researcher, without being aware of it,

00:40:30is provoking in the matter, in this case in the microphone,

00:40:33directly on the emulsion of the manetophonic tape,

00:40:36it is him, unconsciously, that with a phenomenon

00:40:39of telekinesis is producing the psychophony.

00:40:42And there are other hypotheses,

00:40:45some that were a real nonsense,

00:40:48like that of the unconscious ventriloquism,

00:40:51which was one of the things that was recorded there,

00:40:54and was recording it, were voices that were emitting,

00:40:57by ventriloquism, the one who investigated,

00:41:00without realizing it.

00:41:03But I would like,

00:41:06to the thread of what I have just said,

00:41:09for example, to comment on that,

00:41:12because what you have is

00:41:15without being in the laboratory.

00:41:18Yes, this has been going on for many years.

00:41:21One of the very curious systems is that

00:41:24it was done that different friends of mine,

00:41:27from Europe in general,

00:41:30sent me tapes with recorded questions.

00:41:33I totally ignored the content.

00:41:36As soon as I got the tape, I removed the cover,

00:41:39and that tape was going to stop in a drawer.

00:41:42So, I connected two recorders,

00:41:45which Pedro connected to me,

00:41:48because I am quite good at electronics,

00:41:51and in one I put the tape with the questions,

00:41:54in play,

00:41:57and in the other one I put the virgin tape,

00:42:00in record, in recording.

00:42:03So, both devices were connected to a blind timer.

00:42:06I would arrive on a weekend,

00:42:09or three, or four, or five days away,

00:42:12when I didn't know what was going on,

00:42:15and both devices started working.

00:42:18One was sending questions in French,

00:42:21in English, or in German, or in Spanish,

00:42:24and the other one was recording.

00:42:27So, there were quite a few answers,

00:42:30that someone asked something in one tape,

00:42:33and I had the answer in the other tape.

00:42:36The question was sent, and the answer was sent.

00:42:39If you are not there, why answer?

00:42:42Look, there is a type of voices,

00:42:45which are called interrelated voices,

00:42:48that sometimes talk to each other.

00:42:51One of the psychophonies that impressed me the most,

00:42:54because I don't keep them anymore,

00:42:57because I have so many of them,

00:43:00I am more interested in technology,

00:43:03is a voice that says to me,

00:43:06tomorrow you will die.

00:43:09And then another voice comes out,

00:43:12you don't listen to it,

00:43:15you slept well that night.

00:43:18I don't know if you have heard it,

00:43:21but there is a voice that says to me,

00:43:24I don't remember exactly,

00:43:27decrepit.

00:43:30And I answer, that's you.

00:43:33And a woman's voice comes out,

00:43:36screaming, I didn't go,

00:43:39I didn't go, I didn't go,

00:43:42I didn't go, I didn't go.

00:43:45It's the voice that I heard in Córdoba,

00:43:48the Faculty of Law in Córdoba,

00:43:51a few months ago,

00:43:54it's a curious psychophony because

00:43:57it makes sense when you listen to it backwards.

00:44:00What did that kind voice say?

00:44:03When you are recording,

00:44:06as Ignesio said,

00:44:09you need to keep all the data,

00:44:12We were several people there and he said, I'm going to kill you.

00:44:16But like that, in a colloquial way, or with an English voice?

00:44:19No, no, an imposing tone, a threatening tone.

00:44:21How good, and what did you do?

00:44:23Well, nothing.

00:44:24Let's see if he kills us.

00:44:26I think you should incorporate Andrés into this group.

00:44:29It seems to me that after this interview, here in Amigos you will be more afraid than usual.

00:44:32I would never think of doing something like that in my life.

00:44:35I haven't even done a Ouija because...

00:44:36I invite you when I see you getting married.

00:44:37No, no, you're going to invite me.

00:44:38I invite you when I see you getting married.

00:44:39You don't even take me to sleep.

00:44:41Probably because I would never sleep again.

00:44:43But I insist...

00:44:44Because you would sleep forever.

00:44:47In my first question, if you have that ability, and above all the courage to do it,

00:44:53and I recognize directly that I don't have the courage,

00:44:55why don't you use it for something?

00:44:57That is, if you are able to ask things, to guess, to answer,

00:45:02let's use something positive.

00:45:04I don't know, the classic nonsense.

00:45:07How do you cure AIDS?

00:45:08Wait a minute, wait a minute.

00:45:09An example, right?

00:45:10When Einstein discovered the theory of relativity...

00:45:12Of course.

00:45:13Excuse me.

00:45:14You can't trust him.

00:45:15You can't trust what he says.

00:45:17When Einstein announced the theory of relativity,

00:45:20the mathematicians of his time said,

00:45:24well, yes, this is a mathematical pastime, it has no application.

00:45:28After a few years, I have studied applications.

00:45:30Possibly, with the transcommunications thing,

00:45:33we don't see an immediate application, but maybe with time...

00:45:37They call you decrepit and you tell them,

00:45:39well, you and the other one, you, I don't know...

00:45:41Very well, they have said it.

00:45:43That is a funny thing.

00:45:44But you have something that you haven't told us,

00:45:47and that, I don't know, like the third secret of Fatima,

00:45:50or the fourth, I don't know which one we are going for.

00:45:52Keep it, keep that question, and I'll remind you later.

00:45:55Yes, yes, yes.

00:45:57Then I want that in the second part...

00:46:00Well, let's start talking a little bit about that...

00:46:03Are you going to call me?

00:46:05I don't say it because it's recorded, right?

00:46:07Without shame of our experience and of our opinion on the subject.

00:46:11I think it's fascinating.

00:46:13And we will have to talk about what is the best place,

00:46:15what do psychophonies have to do with feelings,

00:46:18and where there has been a suicide,

00:46:20is it easier to obtain them or is it easier to obtain them

00:46:22in an absolutely new building.

00:46:25The path started by Jürgensen and Raudive

00:46:28was immediately followed by dozens of researchers

00:46:31and later by fans from all over the world.

00:46:34At this point, the number of recorded psychophonies

00:46:37can be counted by millions.

00:46:39Although the origin of these mysterious voices

00:46:42is still the subject of heated debates,

00:46:45for many, perhaps most,

00:46:47they are sounds from the world of the dead.

00:46:52However, contrary to what one might think,

00:46:56cemeteries are not the most suitable place

00:46:59and the results obtained in them are scarce.

00:47:02Rather, it seems that these recordings

00:47:05are related to the feelings

00:47:08that those who are now dead experienced in life.

00:47:12That is why it is easier to obtain psychophonies

00:47:14in abandoned houses, ruins,

00:47:17and other places that in time were a stage of suffering,

00:47:21of tragedies, of violent deaths.

00:47:24Let's go to some of those locations

00:47:27where recording this type of voices is,

00:47:29if not usual, at least frequent.

00:47:32During the report,

00:47:34we will include some of the psychophonies obtained there.

00:47:37For a better hearing,

00:47:39each time they will be repeated two or three times.

00:47:45The first appointment was on a winter day

00:47:48in the town of Treviño,

00:47:50in what remains of an abandoned town.

00:47:52Today, cows and horses graze pleasantly

00:47:55among the scarce ruins,

00:47:57but there was a time, not too far away,

00:48:00when Ochate was a cursed town.

00:48:05There are places with legend,

00:48:07places of apparitions, miracles, tragedies,

00:48:11that the popular voice has later grown.

00:48:14But in few places so many strange and dramatic events

00:48:18converge as here in Ochate,

00:48:21a village in the town of Treviño,

00:48:24abandoned in Salavian lands,

00:48:26of which only a tower of the thirteenth century stands.

00:48:29The rest, their houses, their people, their cattle,

00:48:33disappeared,

00:48:35leaving behind a legend of a cursed place

00:48:38where nothing good awaits the lonely traveler.

00:48:44Like so many others, the village of Ochate,

00:48:47of which there is news since the twelfth century,

00:48:50suffered times of certain prosperity

00:48:53in which, without being known why, it was abandoned.

00:48:56However, in the last century it experienced

00:48:59some years of splendor.

00:49:01It became one of the most inhabited villages in this area.

00:49:04Until in 1860,

00:49:07a smallpox epidemic

00:49:09killed almost all the population.

00:49:11There were barely a dozen people left.

00:49:14A few more had been added

00:49:16when, four years later,

00:49:18another epidemic occurred,

00:49:20this time typhus.

00:49:22And almost all died.

00:49:24Despite this, people returned to Ochate,

00:49:27they re-settled,

00:49:29and possibly they felt safe

00:49:31already in this place,

00:49:33thinking that the curse had ended,

00:49:35until in 1870,

00:49:37already definitively,

00:49:39another new epidemic, this time of cholera,

00:49:42killed almost all of them.

00:49:44The few who remained left horrified

00:49:47so as never to return.

00:49:50The curious thing,

00:49:52not to use another adjective,

00:49:54is that despite its proximity,

00:49:56despite the constant traffic

00:49:58of people and cattle,

00:50:00the neighboring villages,

00:50:02Miruri, San Vicentejo, Aguillo,

00:50:05did not suffer these plagues.

00:50:07It seems that fate chose Ochate

00:50:10to unleash all its virulence on it,

00:50:13all its cholera.

00:50:15The corpses buried in the middle of the town,

00:50:18where the small cemetery

00:50:20no longer had a place for more dead,

00:50:23are the testimony that justifies

00:50:25that reputation of the cursed village

00:50:27that Ochate has.

00:50:29But after being abandoned,

00:50:31after the houses have been disintegrated

00:50:34and the bones of its inhabitants

00:50:36there is practically nothing left,

00:50:38strange things have continued to happen

00:50:40around this lonely tower.

00:50:42Most of the witnesses

00:50:44are neighbors of the mediation,

00:50:46who do not want to speak

00:50:48about these events,

00:50:50so as not to contribute

00:50:52with their story to the sinister fame

00:50:54that this place has.

00:50:56But there are also occasional visitors,

00:50:58researchers, curious people,

00:51:00who attracted by the fame of Ochate

00:51:02have come here and have suffered

00:51:04all kinds of experiences,

00:51:06from sightings of what we call

00:51:08unidentified flying objects,

00:51:10to ghostly hands pushing,

00:51:12attacking those who are here,

00:51:14and even people who have disappeared,

00:51:16who disappeared without a trace,

00:51:18as if this cursed town

00:51:20had swallowed them.

00:51:22They began to go first

00:51:24as a kind of lament of children,

00:51:26like crying,

00:51:28that disappeared,

00:51:30and then some heartbeats began to go,

00:51:32but at a very strong level,

00:51:36I always say that it is as if you were

00:51:38with headphones and you hear it in stereo,

00:51:40but at a very high volume.

00:51:44Another day,

00:51:46another of so many visits to the town

00:51:48of Ochate,

00:51:50I have a mania,

00:51:52which is that it gives me to leave alone,

00:51:54and you, Enrique, know it.

00:51:58I went to what is the tower,

00:52:00and there, next to the tower,

00:52:02a little like invoking,

00:52:04calling,

00:52:06I said, well, I want to see something.

00:52:08I began to notice very strange sensations.

00:52:10I heard

00:52:12as if they began to walk

00:52:14around me,

00:52:16unlike the

00:52:18waves of water

00:52:20when you throw a stone.

00:52:22They usually open,

00:52:24and these, on the contrary, close.

00:52:26They closed me, closed, closed,

00:52:28until a certain moment came

00:52:30that I noticed a touch on my back,

00:52:32as if they were with the hand,

00:52:34not a hand.

00:52:36The truth is that I was scared.

00:52:38Then I called my colleagues,

00:52:40they went up,

00:52:42and at the time they arrived,

00:52:44the only thing they saw was a kind of

00:52:46steps that left,

00:52:48and it was the crunching of the grass,

00:52:50of the steps.

00:52:52Well, here in Ochate,

00:52:54one of the parapsychological experiments

00:52:56that have been carried out the most,

00:52:58both at the level of researchers

00:53:00and curious people on the subject,

00:53:02has been the subject of psychophonies,

00:53:04and I personally have experimented a lot

00:53:06with psychophonies that have been

00:53:08collected in Ochate.

00:53:10There are two, quite clear

00:53:12and with very precise messages,

00:53:14which were carried out here,

00:53:16in the tower of Ochate,

00:53:18inside. There is a curious fact

00:53:20that both psychophonies were carried out

00:53:22at different heights.

00:53:24The first psychophony was carried out

00:53:26at the height of the ground,

00:53:28and the second on a beam

00:53:30above the ground.

00:53:32And well, in the first psychophony

00:53:34it was discovered that

00:53:36the voice of a girl had been recorded,

00:53:38a very childish tone,

00:53:40which says the name of Candora or Pandora.

00:53:52Then, the second psychophony

00:53:54that I mentioned before,

00:53:56was carried out by a group,

00:53:58a parapsychological research association

00:54:00here in Vitoria.

00:54:02In this psychophony,

00:54:04which is understood a little worse,

00:54:06but the last terms are clear,

00:54:08it is understood that it says

00:54:10that it still makes the door closed,

00:54:12and this psychophony,

00:54:14the voice you hear is a voice

00:54:16of a mature woman,

00:54:18not as childish as the previous one,

00:54:20and somehow in this psychophony

00:54:22the word door is played.

00:54:24Etymologically, Ochate means

00:54:26door of noise, secret door,

00:54:28and somehow there have been people

00:54:30who have found the etymology of Ochate

00:54:32very characteristic of the area.

00:54:50If they are not the voices of the dead,

00:54:52at least they seem to come from

00:54:54another world other than this.

00:54:56And now, from the north of the peninsula,

00:54:58let's move to the south,

00:55:00to the province of Jaén,

00:55:02to a serrano town as peaceful

00:55:04as any of its surroundings,

00:55:06which one day in 1971

00:55:08went down in history

00:55:10for reasons that no one

00:55:12could have imagined.

00:55:14Vesmed de la Moraleda.

00:55:16On August 23 of that year,

00:55:18the modest house

00:55:20corresponding to number 5

00:55:22on Rodríguez Acosta Street

00:55:24was the scene of an unusual event.

00:55:28On the kitchen floor

00:55:30appeared an enigmatic face

00:55:32formed with the different

00:55:34grey tones of cement.

00:55:36What at first

00:55:38seemed like a coincidence,

00:55:40became an exciting event,

00:55:42because that face was followed

00:55:44by another and another.

00:55:46Suggestive, sinister

00:55:48or melancholic,

00:55:50they were covering the kitchen floor.

00:55:52There was no possible explanation,

00:55:54and as part of that neighborhood

00:55:56was built on an old cemetery,

00:55:58it was inevitable

00:56:00that the majority attributed

00:56:02that gallery of portraits

00:56:04to supernatural causes.

00:56:06In a few months,

00:56:08the subject of Vesmed's faces

00:56:10became international news.

00:56:12In Spain, the newspaper Pueblo,

00:56:14one of the largest in those years,

00:56:16dedicated page after page to the case,

00:56:18and the specialists,

00:56:20along with thousands of curious people,

00:56:22began to reach

00:56:24the then quiet population of Hien.

00:56:26It is not the time

00:56:28to go into details.

00:56:30Within this series,

00:56:32we will dedicate an internal program

00:56:34to the faces of Vesmed.

00:56:36Suffice it to say that the ecclesiastical authorities

00:56:38and the Ministry of Government

00:56:40themselves took notes on the matter

00:56:42and decided to deal with it drastically.

00:56:44The same newspaper

00:56:46that had given so much attention to the subject

00:56:48was the one in charge of giving the paperwork,

00:56:50publishing that everything was reduced

00:56:52to a fraud.

00:56:54As we will see one day,

00:56:56the only fraud was the one committed

00:56:58by the authorities,

00:57:00deceiving the public opinion

00:57:02to silence a matter

00:57:04that had acquired excessive social relevance

00:57:06and that, against the official

00:57:08instructions of the dictatorship,

00:57:10suggested the reality

00:57:12of paranormal phenomena

00:57:14and the possible existence

00:57:16of an ultra-tomb life

00:57:18that escaped the monopoly of the Church.

00:57:21After almost 30 years,

00:57:23the case of the faces of Vesmed

00:57:25has all the vices of being authentic,

00:57:27which makes it

00:57:29the most important

00:57:31paranormal manifestation

00:57:33of this century in Europe.

00:57:35Among the many investigations

00:57:37carried out,

00:57:39the attempt to record psychophonies was not lacking.

00:57:41And the truth is

00:57:43that many were obtained,

00:57:45some of great dramatic content.

00:57:47We are going to listen to several,

00:57:50they are, or could be,

00:57:52the voices of those

00:57:54whose rough portraits appeared

00:57:56and continue to appear

00:57:58on the floor of the house.

00:58:00Ángela may be the name

00:58:02of one of them.

00:58:10It is said that in this

00:58:12or other neighboring houses

00:58:14there was a brothel many years ago

00:58:16and some bloody event.

00:58:18Maybe then another psychophony

00:58:20recorded there

00:58:22with a sinister message

00:58:24will come.

00:58:26To kill him.

00:58:28To kill him.

00:58:32To kill him.

00:58:34Someone from far away,

00:58:36perhaps from the other world,

00:58:38calls Miguel.

00:58:40Some name

00:58:42of one of those people

00:58:44to which one of these faces

00:58:47calls Miguel.

00:58:52Perhaps as an answer

00:58:54to the question about invisible powers

00:58:56behind those faces,

00:58:58a psychophony was recorded

00:59:00that slyly says,

00:59:02there are souls.

00:59:07And finally,

00:59:09a recording in which,

00:59:11after asking Maria,

00:59:13the owner of the house,

00:59:15to manifest himself,

00:59:17a psychophonic inclusion appears

00:59:19that, showing his sympathy

00:59:21with Maria, says,

00:59:23it is an abuse.

00:59:25Why did you come here

00:59:27to my house?

00:59:32Why did you come here

00:59:34to my house?

00:59:40Our last appointment

00:59:42for this report is

00:59:45Today is the headquarters

00:59:47of the Castilla-La Mancha

00:59:49industry,

00:59:51but in another time,

00:59:53in this same place,

00:59:55was the house of the Marquise.

00:59:57Its owner,

00:59:59Margarita Ruiz de Liori,

01:00:01Marquise of Villasante,

01:00:03was undoubtedly

01:00:05an extraordinary woman

01:00:07in many respects.

01:00:09Spy, lover of important

01:00:11political figures,

01:00:13and, as if that were not enough,

01:00:15a fan of practices

01:00:17linked to black magic.

01:00:20Her name became sadly popular

01:00:22in 1954,

01:00:24when her own son

01:00:26filed a complaint against her

01:00:28in a Madrid court,

01:00:30accusing her of mutilating

01:00:32the corpse of her daughter Margot

01:00:34during the funeral.

01:00:36The record of her house

01:00:38in Madrid allowed the discovery

01:00:40of an amputated hand

01:00:42with alcohol and other parts

01:00:44of a human body,

01:00:46including the eyes

01:00:48and a piece of tongue.

01:00:50The judge ordered the exhumation

01:00:52of the corpse, and it was

01:00:54proven that, in fact,

01:00:56the macabre amputations

01:00:58had been cut off

01:01:00from the body of the daughter.

01:01:02The subsequent investigation

01:01:04made it clear that,

01:01:06as in other properties

01:01:08of the Marquise,

01:01:10the house was not there anymore,

01:01:12and a modern building

01:01:14was erected in its place.

01:01:16But either for its sinister past

01:01:18or for other reasons,

01:01:20the rumors about inexplicable

01:01:22phenomena in the property

01:01:24led three Albacete investigators,

01:01:26Fernando Rosillo,

01:01:28José Luis Tajada

01:01:30and José Martínez,

01:01:32to ask for the corresponding

01:01:34permission to verify,

01:01:36with their abundant technical material,

01:01:38the existence or not

01:01:40of paranormal events.

01:01:42In this way,

01:01:44on the night of March 10-11,

01:01:461998,

01:01:48they installed their devices

01:01:50and started the records

01:01:52of what was happening.

01:01:54Apparently, it was

01:01:56a fruitless night.

01:01:58No movement of objects,

01:02:00no ectoplasmic formations,

01:02:02not even the typical dry sounds

01:02:04of a poltergeist.

01:02:06Nothing, until they heard

01:02:08the tapes they recorded

01:02:10in different places of the house.

01:02:12Several psychophonies picked up

01:02:14the whispering voice of a girl

01:02:16who clearly pronounced

01:02:18phrases as laconic

01:02:20and shuddering as

01:02:22mother, cold, fear.

01:02:24Let's hear it three times.

01:02:36Fear.

01:02:40Fear.

01:02:42Fear.

01:02:44Fear.

01:02:46Fear.

01:02:48Fear.

01:02:50Fear.

01:02:52Coming from who knows where,

01:02:54that childlike voice,

01:02:56as soothing as chilling,

01:02:58approached one of the microphones

01:03:00to simply say

01:03:02that it was her.

01:03:04It was her.

01:03:08It was her.

01:03:12It was her.

01:03:14And finally,

01:03:16the most disconcerting

01:03:18of the psychophonies recorded that night.

01:03:20The same voice saying

01:03:22I am Diony

01:03:24or maybe I am God.

01:03:26Let's listen to it carefully.

01:03:30It's a C05.

01:03:32It's recording.

01:03:34Can you hear it?

01:03:56A voice so suggestive

01:03:58and clear that it left

01:04:00the investigators speechless.

01:04:02However, the work

01:04:04they did later,

01:04:06submitting the recordings

01:04:08to all kinds of analysis,

01:04:10cleared any doubt.

01:04:12Obviously, the problem

01:04:14we have every time

01:04:16we go out to investigate

01:04:18is the displacement

01:04:20of the whole team.

01:04:22What we always try to do

01:04:24is to bring a basic team

01:04:26that allows us, if necessary,

01:04:28to our small laboratory

01:04:30as much material as possible,

01:04:32both acoustically

01:04:34and visually.

01:04:36The technical work,

01:04:38the analysis work,

01:04:40is the one that is done

01:04:42in our laboratory,

01:04:44since the computers we use

01:04:46are much more sensitive

01:04:48than the ones we have here

01:04:50and we always leave them there

01:04:52for fear of displacement.

01:04:54Obviously, the time we have here

01:04:56is much shorter than the time

01:04:58we spend here analyzing.

01:05:00After the analysis

01:05:02of the last alleged psychophonies

01:05:04that were obtained here,

01:05:06both those that were obtained

01:05:08on March 11th and those

01:05:10that we obtained later,

01:05:12the conclusion that has been reached

01:05:14is that they do not belong

01:05:16to any of the people

01:05:18that we have here

01:05:20and can be classified

01:05:22as psychophonies or paraphonies.

01:05:24The psychophonies are not

01:05:26of what is normally known

01:05:28under that terminology,

01:05:30since they are not included

01:05:32directly on the ambient sound,

01:05:34but it seems demonstrable

01:05:36that there was some kind

01:05:38of physical manipulation

01:05:40of the instrument,

01:05:42in this case the recorder

01:05:44that was being used

01:05:46to make that type

01:05:48of acoustic inclusion.

01:05:50All the psychophonies

01:05:52of the daughter,

01:05:54we do not know who it will be,

01:05:56but the same tone of voice

01:05:58always appears.

01:06:00It always coincides,

01:06:02it always comes out

01:06:04in the hole of the staircase

01:06:06and in the meeting room.

01:06:08These are the places

01:06:10where the best psychophonies

01:06:12are found.

01:06:14Before we start debating,

01:06:16and I hope that in this second part

01:06:18you will be more violent,

01:06:20there is one thing

01:06:22that has remained there

01:06:24in that second part of the report,

01:06:26Fernando, when you were

01:06:28in the house of the Marquise,

01:06:30the one with the cut hand,

01:06:32those psychophonies that for me

01:06:34are exasperating,

01:06:36that tender and sinister girl

01:06:38from the horror movie

01:06:40by Mario Bava,

01:06:42you said or commented,

01:06:44I do not remember who it was,

01:06:46if it was José Luis Tajada

01:06:48or who it was,

01:06:50that they were special

01:06:52because there was a manipulation there.

01:06:54What happens?

01:06:56Did someone sneak in there

01:06:58and it was a trick?

01:07:00No, not at all.

01:07:02When we talk about manipulation,

01:07:04we refer to physical manipulation

01:07:06of the environment.

01:07:08That, whatever it is,

01:07:10is capable of interfering

01:07:12in our physical environment.

01:07:14When we talk about manipulation

01:07:16we refer to that.

01:07:18Another thing is a fraud

01:07:20that is completely different.

01:07:22Well, come on, let's see.

01:07:24What happens?

01:07:26I wanted, if you allow me...

01:07:28First of all, the Marquises

01:07:30give a lot of game.

01:07:32The girl, instead of saying

01:07:34what she says,

01:07:36should say horrible things

01:07:38about her mother.

01:07:40We are not saying

01:07:42that what will happen there

01:07:44is the Marquise's fault.

01:07:46I insist on what I was insisting on.

01:07:48You do not say it,

01:07:50Sinesio does not answer me

01:07:52if he knows something

01:07:54that he has not told anyone,

01:07:56not even his family.

01:07:58The miracle of Fátima,

01:08:00the secrets of Fátima that they told you.

01:08:02Apart from yes, no, yes, no,

01:08:04and these things of crepitus...

01:08:06Do you want me to answer you something like that?

01:08:08No, I want you to tell me

01:08:10if it is true.

01:08:12Yes, it is true.

01:08:14And I trust you absolutely.

01:08:16Thank you, thank you very much.

01:08:18Yes, I have psychophonies

01:08:20that I can or cannot tell you.

01:08:22Maybe I could tell you.

01:08:24For example, I would tell you

01:08:26a very impressive one.

01:08:28When there was the first Gulf War,

01:08:30two weeks before,

01:08:32there were already psychophonies

01:08:34advocating the Gulf War.

01:08:36Not this last one,

01:08:38the real war.

01:08:40And I am not saying this

01:08:42so that you do not fall asleep,

01:08:44but there have also been

01:08:46and there have been psychophonies

01:08:48of the announcement of the Gulf War.

01:08:50One, and I know enough.

01:08:52And it happened?

01:08:54It happened.

01:08:56And a close person or not?

01:08:58Not very close.

01:09:00And how was it?

01:09:02If you remember sexually.

01:09:04Yes, I will explain it to you.

01:09:06Well, I am a chemist,

01:09:08and I thought, after Christmas

01:09:10I will go to look for this product.

01:09:12And on Christmas Eve,

01:09:14I have a psychophony,

01:09:16a voice comes out that says to me,

01:09:18he calls me by my name,

01:09:20he says to me, Darnell, I am Comte.

01:09:22Comte is a Catalan last name.

01:09:24I am Comte.

01:09:26And the Catalan tells me,

01:09:28I am dead.

01:09:30I thought,

01:09:32continue or not continue?

01:09:34And I am dead.

01:09:36I go on Christmas Eve,

01:09:38I look for the anomaly of chemical products,

01:09:40I find a address

01:09:42where it is produced,

01:09:44I go to look for a sample,

01:09:46and I remember that the chemist there

01:09:48is called Comte.

01:09:50And I say to his partner,

01:09:52by the way, I am Comte, where are you from?

01:09:54Ah, I had this answer, for example,

01:09:56on November 12, I do not remember,

01:09:58on December 12.

01:10:00Well, when I come back,

01:10:02I go to look for the sample,

01:10:04he says, yes,

01:10:06what can I see?

01:10:08And I say, unfortunately, no.

01:10:10On December 8,

01:10:12climbing a mountain,

01:10:14the rope broke and he killed himself.

01:10:16And I had the answer

01:10:184 or 5 days later

01:10:20of his death.

01:10:22Now, you are going to help me.

01:10:24And was Comte the one who answered you?

01:10:26I do not know.

01:10:28As it is Comte,

01:10:30a friend of his.

01:10:32Very calm, unsatisfied.

01:10:34I have an anecdote that

01:10:36maybe, well,

01:10:38it puts me in a lot of trouble.

01:10:40When it comes to children's voices,

01:10:42it is something

01:10:44for me superior,

01:10:46because

01:10:48maybe the innocence and such.

01:10:50One day,

01:10:52after a radio program,

01:10:54I received a call

01:10:56where they invited me to perform

01:10:58a psychophony in a house

01:11:00where a woman had lost her daughter.

01:11:02Her daughter was a girl,

01:11:04died at 16, disabled.

01:11:06She could not walk.

01:11:08And well, I, a little reluctant,

01:11:10because I do not like to do this kind of things,

01:11:12I went to that place

01:11:14because of the excessive,

01:11:16well, what the woman wanted,

01:11:18she needed it,

01:11:20I was part of that.

01:11:22And I went.

01:11:24Two more investigators accompanied me

01:11:26and I got a psychophony.

01:11:28This was not a system

01:11:30to speak and it was not going to work.

01:11:32Well, contrary to what I thought,

01:11:34a psychophony was obtained,

01:11:36an amazing psychophony,

01:11:38where a girl's voice was heard

01:11:40saying, I will walk.

01:11:42The woman, the mother,

01:11:44recognized this voice as the voice of her daughter.

01:11:46I was very impressed.

01:11:48The mother, above all,

01:11:50well,

01:11:52she began to say, yes, now I know you are alive,

01:11:54I know you are alive.

01:11:56But did the mother calm her down?

01:11:58Yes, yes, of course.

01:12:00But you have to look at the two examples

01:12:02that you have put, as I was asking before,

01:12:04and in general, one thing that I think

01:12:06during the advertising I was saying,

01:12:08but I do not know if you will recognize it or not,

01:12:10that is, intelligent energies,

01:12:12I do not know what, we do not know anything,

01:12:14you are talking about souls,

01:12:16what we, those on the street,

01:12:18we understand as souls in pain.

01:12:20Of the dead who are wandering around

01:12:22and do not find their place.

01:12:24He says textually,

01:12:26because yes, he says textually,

01:12:28and I have it underlined,

01:12:30the best place is where there have been

01:12:32horrible crimes, mass suicides,

01:12:34that is, that is the best place.

01:12:36But those are hypotheses.

01:12:38No, but those are hypotheses.

01:12:40These two anecdotes are hypotheses

01:12:42that are of two dead,

01:12:44two dead with names and surnames.

01:12:46The best place is the hypothesis

01:12:48that there were mass suicides or cemeteries.

01:12:50No, no, the other way around.

01:12:52You said that there were no cemeteries,

01:12:54but places, well, the town of Este Oñate.

01:12:56Excuse me for a moment.

01:12:58Cemeterys, I have always said

01:13:00that they should not be.

01:13:02Because there they are in peace,

01:13:04there they are not wandering.

01:13:06There is nothing.

01:13:08But I am going to explain to you

01:13:10a psychophony that you have heard

01:13:12and that is very strong.

01:13:14One of my students, years ago,

01:13:16when I initially did psychophonies,

01:13:18as a consequence of this psychophony

01:13:20so many of my students

01:13:22so many of my students

01:13:24that we went to do a psychophony

01:13:26in a cemetery.

01:13:28And right there, we rewind,

01:13:30we listen, a child's voice comes out

01:13:32that is humorous, that says

01:13:34and what do I do here?

01:13:36From that moment I said,

01:13:38enough, let's do one more test.

01:13:40You say that the cemeteries

01:13:42do not have to go on the day of the funeral.

01:13:44Look at what is being raised there.

01:13:46It is a communication

01:13:48It is a communication

01:13:50with a level of existence X

01:13:52apparently with spirits

01:13:54apparently

01:13:56and we use that term

01:13:58but that does not reflect

01:14:00a uniformity of state.

01:14:02That is, in psychophonies

01:14:04there is a whole range

01:14:06of feelings and attitudes.

01:14:08Some advise,

01:14:10some respond, but then there are many

01:14:12of them that are showing

01:14:14bewilderment, perplexity.

01:14:16That, what do I do here?

01:14:18That, I'm afraid.

01:14:20That kind of phrases

01:14:22that are the ones that dazzle you.

01:14:24Well, what happens?

01:14:26That if you die in certain circumstances

01:14:28you are wandering around

01:14:30without knowing where you are

01:14:32or there is a time after death.

01:14:34What do you think of that?

01:14:36Look,

01:14:38no, now it's not your turn.

01:14:40It depends

01:14:42It depends, for example,

01:14:44there are some factors

01:14:46that I think are very important

01:14:48if they are factors to take into account

01:14:50and it is, I repeat it again,

01:14:52what would be our three-dimensional state.

01:14:54Here time for us

01:14:56is a very important factor

01:14:58to take into account.

01:15:00Possibly what is being heard

01:15:02depends a lot on the state

01:15:04of the mental state of the person.

01:15:06Why do I say this?

01:15:08Of the person who does the psychophony.

01:15:10Let me explain.

01:15:12Stress, for example,

01:15:14is a mental state

01:15:16that then affects the physical aspect.

01:15:18As stress, I can tell you,

01:15:20psychosomatic diseases

01:15:22are mental blockages

01:15:24that later affect the physical aspect.

01:15:26When we talk about voices of this type

01:15:28it depends on the mental state

01:15:30not to provoke them,

01:15:32but to be more receptive,

01:15:34capable of channeling,

01:15:36so to speak,

01:15:38the support that you need

01:15:40to be able to produce the energy

01:15:42that moves it and all that.

01:15:44But that is a very important factor.

01:15:46It is evident that what I want to assimilate

01:15:48attracts the assimilated.

01:15:50In a different state of mind it attracts.

01:15:52In general,

01:15:54or at least that impression I have,

01:15:56and I don't know if I'm wrong,

01:15:58when I worked in a psychiatric hospital

01:16:00I went to a room

01:16:02before asking for a residence

01:16:04because I started traveling

01:16:06and I asked the director

01:16:08of the hospital

01:16:10and he accepted it very well

01:16:12because, contrary to what many people think,

01:16:14this type of strange hobbies

01:16:16do not always have

01:16:18the same version of the official statements.

01:16:20There are many times

01:16:22that they support you, that they help you.

01:16:24I remember giving a conference

01:16:26at the Higher Council of Scientific Research

01:16:28talking about these topics

01:16:30and then they commissioned me

01:16:32to organize a course.

01:16:34I don't remember where I was going

01:16:36and what I was going to do.

01:16:38Did you propose it to the director?

01:16:40Because we saw that people

01:16:42or I was observing

01:16:44that people who came in

01:16:46with a great anxiety component

01:16:48or an anxious depression

01:16:50or a neurosis of anguish

01:16:52were people

01:16:54who had not manifested

01:16:56any kind of paranormal capacity

01:16:58until their picture was initiated.

01:17:00As if anguish,

01:17:02which is a strong feeling,

01:17:04favored or chemically

01:17:06created in the brain

01:17:08an adequate substrate for that.

01:17:10When anguish resumed,

01:17:12when the patient began to improve,

01:17:14those premonitory dreams,

01:17:16those intuitions,

01:17:18those telepathic manifestations,

01:17:20that series of paranormal phenomena

01:17:22disappeared.

01:17:24It is a self-defense mechanism.

01:17:26No, what I mean by this

01:17:28is that paranormal phenomena

01:17:30has to do with the affective.

01:17:32It is not a matter that goes

01:17:34for the rational,

01:17:36but it has to do with feelings.

01:17:38Perhaps feelings awaken

01:17:40that energy that we do not know,

01:17:42which is what provokes the medium.

01:17:44But there is an important thing.

01:17:46Going back a little

01:17:48to what we had started the program,

01:17:50for me one of the main dangers

01:17:52is there, in the feeling,

01:17:54because after all

01:17:56it is there where a person can hurt,

01:17:58the psychic alteration.

01:18:00When a person begins to say

01:18:02that he hears voices,

01:18:04to try to receive psychophonies,

01:18:06to try, to try,

01:18:08in the end he hears voices

01:18:10until he opens the door.

01:18:12And this happens.

01:18:14This is a real danger.

01:18:16You put a psychophony

01:18:18and I put myself again

01:18:20in a comment made by the people

01:18:22I represent.

01:18:24You hear a psychophony

01:18:26and we are going to repeat it three times.

01:18:28He says, man, he says this

01:18:30because they put it in the subtitle,

01:18:32but you put me a psychophony

01:18:34and you have to have a special ear.

01:18:36This is 80% of the psychophony.

01:18:38And 20% you do not believe

01:18:40because they are too clear.

01:18:44Most psychophonies, Andrés,

01:18:46are not easy to hear,

01:18:48to hear,

01:18:50and above all to interpret.

01:18:52To hear, yes, they are easy,

01:18:54but there are people who have been

01:18:56doing this for many years

01:18:58and we clarify.

01:19:00I have done an experiment

01:19:02and in some public television,

01:19:04and many people have received

01:19:06calls where they said

01:19:08they had heard what I said.

01:19:10They asked me the same question

01:19:12and I had a series

01:19:14of psychophonies exposed

01:19:16and I kept the last one

01:19:18and I said not to put it

01:19:20until I said it.

01:19:22There was a person who asked me

01:19:24and if you do not say

01:19:26what is going to be heard,

01:19:28people hear it?

01:19:30And then I told him,

01:19:32well, let's do the test.

01:19:34And he put a psychophony

01:19:36that really means that I have it

01:19:38and it is very clear.

01:19:40And it is this of André

01:19:42that I was telling you before.

01:19:44And all the calls that were received

01:19:46to the studies,

01:19:48they heard what the psychophony said

01:19:50and then it was explained

01:19:52that it said Andaré.

01:19:54But for you to see that it is true,

01:19:56there are many psychophonies

01:19:58that cannot be heard,

01:20:00but for that we are

01:20:02with devices and technology

01:20:04to try to decode them.

01:20:06With computer processes

01:20:08you are cleaning, sampling,

01:20:10filtering signals until you can

01:20:12clean it.

01:20:14And with that,

01:20:16there is always the danger

01:20:18of saying, look at this,

01:20:20there is a noise and it is believed that ...

01:20:22And if they are very clear?

01:20:24If they are very clear,

01:20:26they tell you, look,

01:20:28this is the voice of the neighbor

01:20:30upstairs.

01:20:32Let's go to what we were

01:20:34commenting on before.

01:20:36The right places.

01:20:38In this second part of the report

01:20:40there were three places,

01:20:42Ochate, as a cursed town,

01:20:44with all due respect and using

01:20:46metaphors, Belmez

01:20:48and the house,

01:20:50not the house,

01:20:52it is actually built on the attic

01:20:54of the old house where

01:20:56one of the farms was,

01:20:58one of the houses of the Marquise

01:21:00Marguerita Ruiz de León

01:21:02and the Marquise of Villasante.

01:21:04They are places where

01:21:06lustful, dramatic

01:21:08events have happened

01:21:10and so on.

01:21:12That is important.

01:21:14It depends on the theory you take as valid.

01:21:16If you take ...

01:21:18It is that for Belmez, for example,

01:21:20there he has passed and made psychophonies,

01:21:22I remember, since Carol Ramis,

01:21:24many years ago, everything that happened

01:21:26there, I have recorded psychophonies in Belmez,

01:21:28everything that happened there,

01:21:30you put a magnetophone

01:21:32in the most different moods

01:21:34and with the most varied intentions

01:21:36and yet many positive results were obtained.

01:21:38There is data that allows

01:21:40to think that in some way

01:21:42something like this can happen,

01:21:44but it cannot be taken as a standard rule

01:21:46because you can be in a place

01:21:48and one day you record and the next day you do not record

01:21:50and you go to another place where you have not recorded anything for a month

01:21:52and that day you record.

01:21:54So a standard rule cannot be established

01:21:56in a certain place.

01:21:58But at the statistical level, at least, yes.

01:22:00Normally it was what we talked about before

01:22:02in places where there have been

01:22:04strong events, so to speak,

01:22:06what is deduced is that there has been

01:22:08a very strong emotional discharge.

01:22:10So the emotional discharge is a type

01:22:12of energy, of waves,

01:22:14that remain there because at the moment

01:22:16the opposite has not been shown.

01:22:18And perhaps because of those places,

01:22:20at a certain moment, you are able to tune in

01:22:22with them and capture that.

01:22:24But it is not a standard rule

01:22:26because there are times, as I said before,

01:22:28that you can be doing tests in the same place

01:22:30and one day you record and the next day you don't, or the opposite.

01:22:32Well, but at least I hope

01:22:34or I was going to say I'm afraid, but I'm not afraid,

01:22:36but I want it.

01:22:38If you, after the program,

01:22:40are encouraged to try to record

01:22:42psychophony, I'm already pretending

01:22:44that here you give us information.

01:22:46It is favorable, that type of places,

01:22:48although it does not mean that

01:22:50they are exclusively recorded there.

01:22:52In our own house we can record psychophony.

01:22:54But hey, if you are with that

01:22:56morbid mind, it is already a certain

01:22:58attraction.

01:23:00Hours, what hours are the best

01:23:02to record psychophony?

01:23:04I hope there are no hours.

01:23:06That thing of doing it at night,

01:23:08at dawn,

01:23:10is simply to avoid noise

01:23:12and murmurs and nothing else,

01:23:14but there are no hours.

01:23:16Theoretically they would be out of time,

01:23:18that concept.

01:23:20It is that it practically seems to you

01:23:22that they are out of time.

01:23:24Yes, totally.

01:23:26But the sound is taken advantage of,

01:23:28as you said at the beginning,

01:23:30when the ambient noise goes down,

01:23:32because let's not forget

01:23:34the thermo-molecular noise

01:23:36that is used, which is the noise

01:23:38of molecules interacting with each other.

01:23:40It is the murmur,

01:23:42the famous sea snail.

01:23:44Then this noise

01:23:46is also immodulable.

01:23:48But the more noise you can remove,

01:23:50the better, and it is done better

01:23:52at night, but not because it is better.

01:23:54Anyway, I want to say that, for example,

01:23:56in our case, the curious thing

01:23:58about the psychophonies obtained

01:24:00in the industrial delegation,

01:24:02and the one in Córdoba,

01:24:04the curious thing is that they were

01:24:06in the same time zone.

01:24:08But, sincerely, we believe

01:24:10that it was a coincidence.

01:24:12It was heard in the meeting room

01:24:14and on the stairs, near the stairs.

01:24:16Yes.

01:24:18That's where it was recorded.

01:24:20And not elsewhere?

01:24:22We were doing tests everywhere,

01:24:24but if we talk about voices

01:24:26or incidents

01:24:28or atemporal inclusions,

01:24:30it depends on where it catches you.

01:24:32But if it is atemporal,

01:24:34it will be much easier to be out of place.

01:24:36It is much easier

01:24:38to be out of place.

01:24:40Yes, but you have to take into account,

01:24:42for example, that if you are talking

01:24:44about waves,

01:24:46harmonic vibrations,

01:24:48it depends on a certain moment

01:24:50when you connect

01:24:52for the phenomenon to occur.

01:24:54It may be a coincidence

01:24:56that instead of the stairs

01:24:58there is another place.

01:25:00That's what I mean by atemporal.

01:25:02I totally agree with you.

01:25:04There is one thing

01:25:06that I didn't like.

01:25:08There is one thing

01:25:10that I didn't like.

01:25:12When we talk about ghosts

01:25:14or specters,

01:25:16there are places

01:25:18where the same voice is recorded

01:25:20for a lifetime.

01:25:22You leave that place

01:25:24and it is no longer recorded.

01:25:26There are many types of voices.

01:25:28But to explain

01:25:30what we are talking about,

01:25:32let's say that

01:25:34there are moments in which

01:25:36one type of voice is recorded

01:25:38and other moments another type of voice.

01:25:40And it is noticeable. Why?

01:25:42For example, I have recorded

01:25:44the same voice several times.

01:25:46And I already knew it.

01:25:48This is the H voice,

01:25:50or B4.

01:25:52But you insist

01:25:54that Fernando doesn't know.

01:25:56Because in the advertising

01:25:58he told me that he wanted to tell me

01:26:00something that he wasn't going to tell me,

01:26:02but I already put him in a mess.

01:26:04No, the thing is that

01:26:06they are too strong experiences

01:26:08and it is not a matter of causing fear.

01:26:10No, but let them know.

01:26:12Let them have respect.

01:26:14For example,

01:26:16and he has told it in many conferences,

01:26:18it is a curious detail,

01:26:20in a research we went to a house

01:26:22where quite strange phenomena

01:26:24had occurred.

01:26:26And the history of the house

01:26:28was a bit like this.

01:26:30A propitious place.

01:26:32There was a civilian guard

01:26:34who had killed his two children

01:26:36and his wife, etc.

01:26:38That was a disaster.

01:26:40It was many years ago.

01:26:42The house is a country house

01:26:44in the middle of a mountain.

01:26:46And I remember that we installed

01:26:48a series of wireless microphones

01:26:50that controlled everyone.

01:26:52And my girlfriend,

01:26:54today my wife,

01:26:56was taking notes of the atmospheric conditions

01:26:58of certain data that I consider important

01:27:00for the investigation.

01:27:02The type of noise in the environment, etc.

01:27:04And at a given moment

01:27:06a voice was recorded

01:27:08where they invite us to leave,

01:27:10very courteously,

01:27:12a deep voice.

01:27:14I don't listen to him,

01:27:16I store the voice as a psychophony,

01:27:18but I listen more severely.

01:27:20And I keep recording.

01:27:22And the third time,

01:27:24strangely, the car started to shake

01:27:26but in such a strong way

01:27:28that I had to get out

01:27:30of the vehicle quickly.

01:27:32It was about 11 minutes.

01:27:34It cost me a lot of money

01:27:36to fix the four shock absorbers

01:27:38that I broke.

01:27:40Because the car was moving a lot.

01:27:42And it was no earthquake movement

01:27:44or anything.

01:27:46It was something strange.

01:27:48And your girlfriend followed you,

01:27:50apparently, because she got married.

01:27:52My girlfriend followed me.

01:27:54A little more respectful with this.

01:27:56So, let's see,

01:27:58it's a thing that saying

01:28:00this could be the result of chance.

01:28:02But too many coincidences, right?

01:28:04That can have a physical impact

01:28:06on us, on things.

01:28:08It's a serious issue,

01:28:10it's an exciting issue.

01:28:12And not only do they record sounds,

01:28:14they record images.

01:28:16So, not next week,

01:28:18much less.

01:28:20We will take some time to prepare

01:28:22the reports.

01:28:24But I'm going to call you

01:28:26so that we can talk

01:28:28on another occasion

01:28:30about five images

01:28:32of ghosts on TV.

01:28:34That would be the right term.

01:28:36Very well.

01:28:38Let's leave the program here.

01:28:40Thank you very much for joining us.

01:28:42We will be talking about another topic

01:28:44that I hope is of interest to you.

01:28:46Until then.

La Otra Realidad - Psicofonias

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