La Otra Realidad Polstergeist
paranormal, fenómenos paranormales, actividad paranormal, investigaciones paranormales, fantasmas, espíritus, casas embrujadas, eventos inexplicables, apariciones, cazafantasmas, experiencias paranormales, lo sobrenatural, misterios sin resolver, vida después de la muerte, fenómenos sobrenaturales, evidencia paranormal, avistamientos de fantasmas, fenómenos inexplicables, entidades paranormales, sucesos extraños
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00:00:00Maybe at this very moment, you have heard the slight crunching of the wood of a piece of furniture.
00:00:20It is possible that a door closes violently without any current of air.
00:00:27Maybe in a few moments, you feel a kind of cold breath that produces a shudder.
00:00:34Probably all this is due to natural causes.
00:00:38But it is also possible that an unwanted incline has been installed in your house,
00:00:43and that these phenomena increase and increase until they make your life a little less than impossible.
00:00:49If so, you are going to be the victim of a poltergeist.
00:00:54For some, it is a phenomenon of ultratumbo, spirits that have not found peace,
00:00:59and that try to attract the attention of the living, to bother them.
00:01:03For others, it is purely a paranormal phenomenon, the influence of the mind,
00:01:09the unconscious of a resident of the house, distressed by matter.
00:01:14We are going to talk about it, we are going to deal with poltergeists,
00:01:18and we will do it with specialists who will provide their experience and their opinions.
00:01:23Perhaps it is better to be prepared.
00:01:47They are recordings and photographs of old houses.
00:01:50From mansions of impressive appearance to rustic country houses,
00:01:55solar buildings and small buildings lost in a alley in any city.
00:02:02They all have a common denominator that has made them famous.
00:02:07Inexplicable noises, doors that open and close violently without apparent cause,
00:02:13furniture that invisible hands push along the room or lift in the air,
00:02:20sounds stepped on empty stairs, objects that, as moved by a spring,
00:02:26leave their usual place to violently crash against the floor or the wall.
00:02:34They are infected houses, invaded by unknown energies.
00:02:40Houses that one day received the visit of something, or someone,
00:02:45coming from the other side of reality that decided to stay.
00:02:50Entities that are usually invisible and of unknown nature,
00:02:54but that do not cease to be real for this reason.
00:02:57Sometimes endowed with extraordinary force, violent, unexpected,
00:03:02and what is even more disturbing, acting intentionally, with intelligence.
00:03:16THE CITY OF BALBAS
00:03:25They are not old or distant events.
00:03:28They continue to occur as frequently as before,
00:03:32and around us, in any house in the city.
00:03:37Like this one, in a colony of small chalets of the 1950s,
00:03:41in a central area of Madrid.
00:03:46THE CITY OF BALBAS
00:03:54Fernando Martínez, architect, who spent his childhood and youth in it,
00:03:59has been, and continues to be, a witness to this type of disconcerting phenomena
00:04:05that we call poltergeist.
00:04:08This started practically since an accident occurred at home with my sister,
00:04:14who killed herself.
00:04:16And it seems that since then, my mother has always told me
00:04:20that phenomena began to occur at home.
00:04:27My sister was three years old and had an accident.
00:04:33Here, at home, she fell on the terrace and killed herself.
00:04:40I had not been born then.
00:04:42That's why I say that this has been going on for more than 40 years.
00:04:52Well, look, I came from school and always took the dog out,
00:04:56as soon as I got home in the afternoon.
00:04:58And my mother was here, where we are.
00:05:01Of course, this was in a different way.
00:05:03And I asked my mother what was going on at school.
00:05:06And I said, well, look, I learned some poems.
00:05:09She said, well, recite them to me.
00:05:11And just after reciting the poems, up here, at the end of the stairs,
00:05:15there were five great applause, but they had big hands.
00:05:20And of course, that left us perplexed.
00:05:23And the dog, who was a German shepherd, went up.
00:05:26In addition, it was quite fierce.
00:05:28In fact, I had problems with it, because it bit several people.
00:05:33So, it ran up those stairs and stayed in the gap.
00:05:36And the animal did not go up.
00:05:38All the furrowed hair, the fur, you know how it gets.
00:05:41And it did not dare to go up.
00:05:43And in fact, it did not go up, it stayed there.
00:05:46And of course, my mother and I, who were alone,
00:05:49well, the truth is that I remember that,
00:05:51especially when I saw my mother's face of fear.
00:05:54That impressed me.
00:05:56It was the first thing I remember recently.
00:06:03Raps on the walls, mimeophonies,
00:06:06that is, sounds that at a given moment, well,
00:06:09doors that knock, doors that open and close.
00:06:13The sound of the footsteps of the stairs was,
00:06:16I think it was more frequent.
00:06:18Some deep footsteps that go up.
00:06:21The stairs reach the gap.
00:06:23Then they go up the section, right?
00:06:26But of all those types of experiences that you have lived in this house,
00:06:30there was one that impressed you especially, right?
00:06:34I no longer lived in this house, I was already tired, I lived in mine.
00:06:38And I called here because I had to collect some documents.
00:06:42And I was waiting for a brother of mine who was coming on a trip.
00:06:45As I did not have a key, well, I called because I was in a hurry.
00:06:49Because, in fact, I was going on vacation the next day
00:06:51and it was essential to leave those papers in the notary.
00:06:54What did you do? Did you call from time to time to see if your brother had arrived?
00:06:57Exactly, just to say, hey, if he's already here,
00:06:59come closer for a moment and I'll take these papers.
00:07:02And curiously, on one occasion,
00:07:05well, to tell you that my father had died about 6 or 7 months earlier.
00:07:10Well, from January to July it would be.
00:07:13Yes, about 6 months.
00:07:15And on one occasion they hung up the phone.
00:07:18And I thought, of course, right away, because he had already arrived.
00:07:21And there was someone at home.
00:07:23And it was a voice that told me textually,
00:07:26my son, I'm alone.
00:07:29But it was, or it seemed to me, my father's voice.
00:07:32Well, in fact, I have no doubt.
00:07:34I suppose that if your mother calls you on the phone,
00:07:37or you hear the voice of someone you know,
00:07:39well, you know perfectly who it is.
00:07:41And that, yes, Fernanda, that impressed me.
00:07:44I was telling you, this house was empty.
00:07:46Your brother had not arrived, there was no one.
00:07:49Of the several times you call to check if someone has arrived,
00:07:53you call on one of those occasions.
00:07:55Yes, it was three in the afternoon or so.
00:07:57And someone picks up the phone and hears your father's voice.
00:08:00Yes, but it was going to be a voice that was a little hurtful.
00:08:03It was like saying, I'm alone,
00:08:06like complaining that I was alone.
00:08:09And that impressed me, the truth is that it has been the only thing,
00:08:13throughout all these years.
00:08:15That you hear the voice of your dead father.
00:08:18Today I was not able to react.
00:08:20Maybe today, I don't know, I would have done the same.
00:08:23But I was not able to react.
00:08:25The truth is that with the phone, it impressed me a lot.
00:08:28And then I reacted late, because, in fact, I thought,
00:08:31I said, well, if this happens, well, I'll go.
00:08:35And I came, of course, I could not enter, I did not have a key,
00:08:38my brother had not arrived yet,
00:08:40because he had had a problem with the car and arrived at night.
00:08:46A curious fact was that of a typewriter.
00:08:50And it's funny, because I had asked my brother,
00:08:54for Reyes, to give him a typewriter,
00:08:57my older brother, who was a university student at the time.
00:09:00And then I shared a room with him.
00:09:03He was with his electric typewriter,
00:09:05he did not let anyone touch it.
00:09:07And one afternoon, the typewriter was ringing.
00:09:11And of course, as he was here with my sister,
00:09:13he thought it was me.
00:09:15And he started shouting,
00:09:16leave the machine, I'm going to give you two cakes, and so on.
00:09:19Screaming, because as the machine was still ringing,
00:09:22he went up, willing to cut,
00:09:26not to touch his machine.
00:09:28And of course, inside the room, there was no one.
00:09:30In this room was the machine, even with its cover, and so on.
00:09:34I imagine there have been things.
00:09:36And many years ago,
00:09:39those types of stains, of light, appear
00:09:44in different places, not in all the photos.
00:09:47Maybe in a sweep of 50 or 60 photos,
00:09:49there are 3, 4 or 5, but that has always happened.
00:09:53And in fact, the last ones, I don't know,
00:09:55it was a couple of months ago.
00:09:57And specifically, this happened to my mother,
00:10:00lying in bed.
00:10:04This type of energy that appears in the photos,
00:10:09in a way, in the dark, with the light off,
00:10:12well, it started to take shape.
00:10:15And in fact, she was in bed,
00:10:20and the sheets were coming down.
00:10:23So she went up to the sheets, and they came down again.
00:10:27And then it was when she realized
00:10:29that there was a kind of stain, or mist, or halo of light,
00:10:35just at the end of her bed.
00:10:39And does one get used to that?
00:10:42Well, yes, I think so.
00:10:44You get used to it over the years.
00:10:51Applause of invisible hands,
00:10:54doors that open and close by themselves,
00:10:57windows that fall and go up again,
00:11:00furniture that changes places,
00:11:02dead people answering the phone,
00:11:06ringing bells that ring over and over again,
00:11:09that's what poltergeists are like.
00:11:13Waiting for a new tenant, the house is empty,
00:11:17but not uninhabited.
00:11:28Siren wails
00:11:48Ringing bell
00:11:51Ringing bell
00:11:57Siren wails
00:12:00Ringing bell
00:12:03Ringing bell
00:12:09Ringing bell
00:12:12Ringing bell
00:12:23Ringing bell
00:12:26Ringing bell
00:12:34Ringing bell
00:12:37Ringing bell
00:12:40Ringing bell
00:12:48Well, before we begin,
00:12:52I'm going to introduce you to today's guests,
00:12:56who are already known to you,
00:12:58they have all been on some other program.
00:13:01Juan Vallejo, collaborator of Canal Sur Radio and Television,
00:13:06collaborator also of the magazine Enigmas,
00:13:09a tenacious, experienced researcher,
00:13:12who has already lived his experiences with poltergeist, right?
00:13:16Yes, the field where I have written and researched so far, yes.
00:13:21And have I ever had any surprises?
00:13:24Well, you won't tell them now.
00:13:26Lorenzo Fernández, editor-in-chief of the magazine Enigmas,
00:13:30writer, researcher,
00:13:33despite being young, he has been kicking the roads for many years.
00:13:37A little less than you, but yes.
00:13:40And going where the unusual happens.
00:13:42Also the poltergeist phenomena.
00:13:44Yes, for me, of course.
00:13:46He has investigated a few, right?
00:13:49I think the poltergeist phenomenon is something closer,
00:13:52and that it is worth investigating.
00:13:54Good.
00:13:55Well, Pedro Amoroski,
00:13:57you were here when we talked about psychophonies.
00:14:00It has a lot to do with poltergeist.
00:14:02Without a doubt, of course.
00:14:03But, well, you have investigated poltergeist cases a lot.
00:14:06You have been investigating transcommunication for 16 years.
00:14:09Of course.
00:14:10Psychophonies and psychoimaging.
00:14:12But mainly through the places where there are poltergeist phenomena, right?
00:14:17Evidently.
00:14:18Good.
00:14:19Needless to say, we said it at the time,
00:14:21that you are one of the most recognized experts,
00:14:24that your name already has an international weight
00:14:27on the subject of psychophony, above all.
00:14:29We do what we can.
00:14:31Well, what can be done is quite good in your case.
00:14:34Well, thank you very much.
00:14:36I would dare to say that among the phenomena
00:14:38that make up parapsychology,
00:14:40the poltergeists or poltergeists,
00:14:43is undoubtedly the most interesting,
00:14:45the most disturbing,
00:14:47the most attractive,
00:14:49and the one that mobilizes the young researchers the most.
00:14:52Well, we will see,
00:14:55throughout the symposium,
00:14:57in which direction we lean,
00:14:59if we think we are facing a supernatural phenomenon
00:15:03or we are facing another type of phenomenon
00:15:06that can fit within the known.
00:15:09But I would like you to start by telling experiences.
00:15:14You, Juan, have just published an article
00:15:19about a conservatory where things are happening, right?
00:15:23Exactly.
00:15:24You have already published several articles,
00:15:26from different places,
00:15:27another of them, well, a house of García Lorca,
00:15:29where things are also happening.
00:15:31What was going on,
00:15:32or what is going on in that conservatory in Granada?
00:15:35The case of the conservatory,
00:15:36the truth is that I think it has just begun.
00:15:38It is a case that will continue to evolve
00:15:40and as we investigate,
00:15:42many more things will come out.
00:15:44It all started with a team from Canal Sur
00:15:46who went there to record a roof,
00:15:48the building that had fallen,
00:15:50and several workers from the building
00:15:53told them that they had had some experience
00:15:56for several years,
00:15:57especially in the basement,
00:15:58in the lower part,
00:16:00in a place that is full of galleries,
00:16:01quite large,
00:16:03and almost 20 years ago,
00:16:04in 1971-1979,
00:16:06as they say,
00:16:07it seems that they took down
00:16:09a lot of old furniture
00:16:11that was in the building
00:16:13and several employees saw, amazed,
00:16:15how the drawers opened,
00:16:17they closed themselves,
00:16:18even the smallest ones,
00:16:19they say they even came out shot.
00:16:21They ran out, of course,
00:16:23they gave part to the former director of the building,
00:16:26which the only thing he did was
00:16:28to say that he had also had experience,
00:16:31instead of telling him,
00:16:32are you crazy,
00:16:33are you crazy,
00:16:34he confessed to them
00:16:35that he had had experience,
00:16:36specifically he spoke to other teachers
00:16:38of the building
00:16:39and they say that this man
00:16:40who passed away two years ago,
00:16:42says that when he was alone
00:16:44to sleep there in the building
00:16:45to study at night and such,
00:16:47he heard a piano playing alone.
00:16:50So, well,
00:16:51he says he was leaving the room,
00:16:54Andrea is already scared,
00:16:55he was leaving the room
00:16:57and at first he was talking about Paquita,
00:17:01who was a teacher who had died,
00:17:02then he said,
00:17:03come on Paquita,
00:17:04stop giving the can,
00:17:05I don't know what,
00:17:06in a loving way,
00:17:07but well,
00:17:08this phenomenon,
00:17:09continuing to insist on time,
00:17:11led him to take the keys of the building at night
00:17:14and go to the auditorium
00:17:15where the piano was heard.
00:17:17The most curious thing is that,
00:17:18well,
00:17:19not only that it was a bang and such,
00:17:20but he says he did arpeggios,
00:17:22even chord links alone.
00:17:24When he arrived
00:17:25to the outside of the conservatory,
00:17:27sorry,
00:17:28of the auditorium
00:17:29and introduced the key,
00:17:30he says he noticed
00:17:31as if the music was moving away,
00:17:33then,
00:17:34when he entered,
00:17:35he says that music was no longer heard,
00:17:36he discards that it was a mouse or something,
00:17:38because the lid is always left closed,
00:17:41since the piano is of high quality
00:17:42and is quite expensive,
00:17:44and that a mouse,
00:17:45in the hypothetical case
00:17:46that it was by the strings,
00:17:47does not make arpeggios
00:17:48or chord links,
00:17:49which is very curious.
00:17:50There are mice,
00:17:51with a very broad training.
00:17:54But with that musical repertoire,
00:17:57it is tremendous.
00:17:58Generally,
00:17:59this type of event
00:18:00reaches the investigators
00:18:02through the jury guards,
00:18:04through the people
00:18:05who watch the building
00:18:06at night,
00:18:08because there is a preference
00:18:10in those events
00:18:11for the night hours
00:18:12or during the day,
00:18:13the noise,
00:18:14because many of them
00:18:15are official buildings
00:18:16and headquarters
00:18:17of some institutions,
00:18:18in this case,
00:18:19a conservatory,
00:18:20and during the day
00:18:21there is the normal noise
00:18:23that prevents
00:18:24those noises from manifesting,
00:18:26or is the night
00:18:27especially conducive
00:18:28to that type of event.
00:18:31Maybe I have a little bit
00:18:33of what you have commented.
00:18:35The night is conducive
00:18:36because, without a doubt,
00:18:37I am one of those who think
00:18:39that the poltergeist phenomenon
00:18:40is 90% caused by the mind.
00:18:43Because...
00:18:44No, by the mind.
00:18:45How can it be caused
00:18:46by the mind?
00:18:47Andrés, get involved with him.
00:18:48How can it be caused by the mind?
00:18:50Let me give him a...
00:18:51Paquita,
00:18:52the teacher Paquita.
00:18:55The altered state of consciousness
00:18:56we know that,
00:18:57sometimes,
00:18:58according to psychologists,
00:19:00it awakens a series
00:19:03of mental potentials
00:19:05that, in the end,
00:19:06evoke strange movements
00:19:08of things,
00:19:09as they have occurred
00:19:10and there are evidence
00:19:11or testimonies.
00:19:13And it seems that this is it.
00:19:15That's why I think
00:19:16that, generally,
00:19:17when a researcher
00:19:18or a person
00:19:19takes, in my case,
00:19:20a microphone
00:19:21to try to record
00:19:22a psychophony
00:19:23or simply takes a camera
00:19:25to take some photographs
00:19:26of an abandoned cemetery,
00:19:28a house where they say
00:19:29that strange things have happened,
00:19:31then that's when it happens to him.
00:19:34A person who goes there
00:19:35quietly,
00:19:36I don't know,
00:19:37on a visit,
00:19:38in the middle of the day
00:19:39or something,
00:19:40possibly,
00:19:41nothing happens to him.
00:19:42Why does this happen?
00:19:43Perhaps the mental state,
00:19:44the predisposition
00:19:45that the person has
00:19:46to what happens to him at night,
00:19:48undoubtedly favors
00:19:49that this happens.
00:19:50Let's see,
00:19:51the poltergeist is...
00:19:52First, why is it called poltergeist?
00:19:53What does it mean?
00:19:54It's a word that means
00:19:55playboy,
00:19:56naughty,
00:19:57a bad word.
00:19:58It has nothing to do
00:19:59with ghosts,
00:20:00in principle.
00:20:01Yes.
00:20:02Is there a ghost
00:20:03seen in the cases
00:20:04of poltergeist?
00:20:05Yes.
00:20:06It can be seen.
00:20:07Supposedly, yes.
00:20:08I have a case,
00:20:09for example,
00:20:10in Las Burros, Granada,
00:20:11where, yes,
00:20:12even the case
00:20:13of a person
00:20:14recognized after death.
00:20:15There was a photograph
00:20:16of her in the building
00:20:17and several of the guys
00:20:18who saw her
00:20:19later recognized the photograph,
00:20:20the commander Ballesteros.
00:20:21It was also curious
00:20:22that they mounted
00:20:23in the hall of the building.
00:20:24There were about six,
00:20:25seven people,
00:20:26I already talked
00:20:27to several of them
00:20:28and then I found
00:20:29an anecdote
00:20:30of that interview
00:20:31that the truth
00:20:32that left me shocked.
00:20:33And these people,
00:20:34well,
00:20:35they comment
00:20:36that they are doing
00:20:37a poltergeist
00:20:38because a colleague of his
00:20:39had died.
00:20:40It's true,
00:20:41they voted, right?
00:20:42Yes,
00:20:43and she was doing
00:20:44a poltergeist
00:20:45trying to communicate
00:20:46with him
00:20:47and suddenly,
00:20:48they say
00:20:49that a man
00:20:50dressed in green
00:20:51was seen
00:20:52in the building.
00:20:53So,
00:20:54the man enters
00:20:55and stares at them.
00:20:56They are scared
00:20:57not because of the police
00:20:58but because
00:20:59they did not have
00:21:00the permission
00:21:01of the management
00:21:02to do those things
00:21:03at night
00:21:04as is normal.
00:21:05And then the man
00:21:06says to them,
00:21:07no, no,
00:21:08calm down,
00:21:09calm down,
00:21:10I've been here
00:21:11for many years
00:21:12and I want to see the building
00:21:13and it doesn't matter
00:21:14that I see it.
00:21:15And they say,
00:21:16ok, ok,
00:21:17you come in.
00:21:18So,
00:21:19when he comes in
00:21:20and he does
00:21:21something terrible
00:21:22or something,
00:21:23then we eat
00:21:24all the story.
00:21:25They go up,
00:21:26they go down,
00:21:27the man is nowhere,
00:21:28everything is closed
00:21:29and that's it.
00:21:30Then,
00:21:31another curious thing
00:21:32is that he describes
00:21:33the same person,
00:21:34a man dressed in green
00:21:35who matches
00:21:36those photos.
00:21:37The anecdote
00:21:38I wanted to tell you
00:21:39is that it was funny
00:21:40when one of the guys
00:21:41I was with
00:21:42was of the gypsy race
00:21:43and you know
00:21:44how gypsies are
00:21:45for this subject,
00:21:46for this subject,
00:21:47all the culture
00:21:48so rich
00:21:49and so beautiful
00:21:50that they have.
00:21:51And I remember
00:21:52that he grabbed me
00:21:53by the arm
00:21:54and said,
00:21:55Juan,
00:21:56I saw him
00:21:57and I swear
00:21:58on my father's grave.
00:21:59I stayed
00:22:00and said,
00:22:01ok, Manolo,
00:22:02no,
00:22:03I'm telling you,
00:22:04it's true,
00:22:05I believe it,
00:22:06it's true.
00:22:07But one thing
00:22:08is what they tell you
00:22:09and well,
00:22:10I imagine
00:22:11that in most,
00:22:12in many occasions
00:22:13there is no reason
00:22:14to doubt
00:22:15those testimonies
00:22:16because they are
00:22:17contrasted with others
00:22:18that are not true.
00:22:19I suppose
00:22:20that you can be fooled
00:22:21like everyone else
00:22:22but it is more difficult
00:22:23to be fooled
00:22:24by you
00:22:25than by Andrés
00:22:26or me,
00:22:27for example.
00:22:28But have you
00:22:29yourself
00:22:30witnessed
00:22:31events
00:22:32in those places?
00:22:33Well,
00:22:34look,
00:22:35I can tell you
00:22:36that I have not
00:22:37become a witness
00:22:38but I have been
00:22:39where supposedly
00:22:40something strange
00:22:41was being seen
00:22:42or a silhouette
00:22:43that they identified
00:22:44approximately
00:22:45two and a half meters
00:22:46was on the other
00:22:47side of the door
00:22:48and I was right
00:22:49on the other side.
00:22:50Two and a half meters high.
00:22:51Yes.
00:22:52This,
00:22:53look,
00:22:54this was an initiative
00:22:55that we started
00:22:56in the Enigmas magazine
00:22:57was to make a compilation
00:22:58with the cases
00:22:59in official buildings
00:23:00and curiously
00:23:01where we thought
00:23:02to publish a single report
00:23:03suddenly we found ourselves
00:23:04overwhelmed
00:23:05with a number of places
00:23:06in the entire
00:23:07Spanish geography.
00:23:08Impressive.
00:23:09Look,
00:23:10the spies have
00:23:11a bureaucratic soul.
00:23:12Well,
00:23:13it is possible
00:23:14or maybe
00:23:15they make no distinction.
00:23:16They have settled
00:23:17on old buildings
00:23:18that have been palaces
00:23:19or that have been hospitals
00:23:20or that have been lodgings.
00:23:21Well,
00:23:22continue.
00:23:23In this case
00:23:24I am talking about
00:23:25the Faculty of Law
00:23:26of Córdoba.
00:23:27We moved there
00:23:28and there was
00:23:29one of the law
00:23:30professors
00:23:31waiting for us,
00:23:32a very skeptical person.
00:23:33In fact,
00:23:34when we arrived
00:23:35with all the team
00:23:36that we moved to the place
00:23:37he looked at us
00:23:38saying,
00:23:39these crazy people,
00:23:40let's see what they are going to do.
00:23:41I can assure you
00:23:42how the night would pass
00:23:43that in the end
00:23:44the professor
00:23:45would tell us
00:23:46about the fear
00:23:47that he had in his body.
00:23:48Well,
00:23:49the night was truly
00:23:50I am not going to tell you
00:23:51that it was terrible
00:23:52but it was to run away.
00:23:53It was an old building.
00:23:54It had been
00:23:55well,
00:23:56there was an area
00:23:57that was the cloister
00:23:58of the 16th century.
00:23:59In a corridor
00:24:00that led to the cloister
00:24:01the old monks
00:24:02who lived there
00:24:03were buried.
00:24:04And the truth is
00:24:05that the place
00:24:06in itself,
00:24:07when the night falls
00:24:08with the trees,
00:24:09the oranges
00:24:10full of birds
00:24:11with the noises
00:24:12they make,
00:24:13in short,
00:24:14in a skeptical area
00:24:15where the room
00:24:16does not believe anything
00:24:17unless it sees it,
00:24:18well, that day
00:24:19it broke all its schemes
00:24:20because in the company
00:24:21of another person
00:24:22who had just met
00:24:23a researcher from Madrid
00:24:24they moved to that cloister
00:24:25where there was
00:24:26a tape recorder
00:24:27the technique
00:24:28they use
00:24:29they take a tape recorder
00:24:30to a closed circuit
00:24:31of television
00:24:32in such a way
00:24:33that you do not monitor
00:24:34you are constantly
00:24:35watching that tape recorder
00:24:36so that no one manipulates it.
00:24:37At the moment
00:24:38when they are going to change
00:24:39the tape
00:24:40they are left looking
00:24:41surprised
00:24:42because suddenly
00:24:43they go up
00:24:44and go back up
00:24:45they look up
00:24:46and they see
00:24:47on the second floor
00:24:48a shadow
00:24:49a silhouette
00:24:50of approximately
00:24:51two meters
00:24:52I tell you
00:24:53two and a half meters
00:24:54they identified it
00:24:55that it was right next
00:24:56to what was
00:24:57the morgue of the building
00:24:58because it had also been
00:24:59a hospital during the war
00:25:00at that moment
00:25:01I was going down
00:25:02by the other end
00:25:03of the building
00:25:04the stairs
00:25:05and I heard a scream
00:25:06that caught my attention
00:25:07a scream
00:25:08at this time of night
00:25:09but hey
00:25:10it could be from the street
00:25:11and at that moment
00:25:12when there is space
00:25:13I go down the stairs
00:25:14thank goodness
00:25:15I went down the stairs
00:25:16because if I open the door
00:25:17I find that
00:25:18these two people
00:25:19drew the same
00:25:20as soon as I found out
00:25:21what had happened
00:25:22I told them to draw me
00:25:23separately
00:25:24without me knowing
00:25:25what they had seen
00:25:26exactly the same
00:25:27and at that moment
00:25:28Fernando
00:25:29on the hard disk
00:25:30of the computer
00:25:31a psychophonic recording
00:25:32appears
00:25:33a recording
00:25:34that in a sense
00:25:35came to say something like
00:25:36love is random
00:25:37something that did not
00:25:38make any sense
00:25:39but by inverting
00:25:40the sense of the tape
00:25:41which is a classic
00:25:42that is made with
00:25:43the Rock Heavy disc
00:25:44that says that if you
00:25:45invert it
00:25:46it has a satanic message
00:25:47exactly the same
00:25:48it turned around
00:25:49and a voice came out
00:25:50of a truly unpleasant
00:25:51old woman
00:25:52who said
00:25:53something like this
00:25:54I'm going to kill you all
00:25:55and that at three
00:25:56in the morning
00:25:57but
00:25:58you
00:25:59you publicly
00:26:00manifest
00:26:01that you are
00:26:02amazing
00:26:03I remember when
00:26:04Lorenzo
00:26:05came to the newsroom
00:26:06after having
00:26:07spent that night
00:26:08and having heard
00:26:09that recording
00:26:10he did not come
00:26:11precisely
00:26:12happy
00:26:13but also
00:26:14from Andalusia
00:26:15and the death
00:26:16you always have to
00:26:17touch wood
00:26:18he is the morbo
00:26:19how can he be the morbo
00:26:20I don't know how many
00:26:21shows we have
00:26:2210, 11, 12
00:26:23and we are surrounded
00:26:24when you don't get
00:26:25a pitufo
00:26:26you get a ghost
00:26:27when you don't get
00:26:28a ghost
00:26:29you get an extraterrestrial
00:26:30and when in a Marian
00:26:31apparition
00:26:32we are very
00:26:33we are not
00:26:34at all calm
00:26:35in this world
00:26:36this reality
00:26:37is very complex
00:26:38the other reality
00:26:39is a part of it
00:26:40of course
00:26:41but in the case
00:26:42that you have told
00:26:43is that everything happens
00:26:44in the law faculty
00:26:45that you were saying
00:26:46it happens the poltergeist
00:26:47the ghost
00:26:48psychophony
00:26:49psycho-image
00:26:50I mean, there is no
00:26:51lack of detail
00:26:52in one night of those
00:26:53you have gathered
00:26:54everything that
00:26:55happens in all of this
00:26:56I tell you more
00:26:57is that I even
00:26:58when they told me
00:26:59these people
00:27:00that are totally
00:27:01confident
00:27:02I repeat to you
00:27:03that they do not believe
00:27:04in anything
00:27:05as you see it
00:27:06and that night
00:27:07was for them
00:27:08I had my doubts
00:27:09I mean, besides
00:27:10I hit my head
00:27:11against the walls
00:27:12to say
00:27:13why didn't I open
00:27:14the door
00:27:15to see him
00:27:16so much time
00:27:17looking for him
00:27:18and suddenly
00:27:19when it seems
00:27:20that he is there
00:27:21he takes you
00:27:22and takes you
00:27:23well, the truth
00:27:24is that the best
00:27:25is to open the door
00:27:26for example
00:27:27Pedro
00:27:28you were talking
00:27:29about
00:27:30you lean
00:27:31for the
00:27:32paranormal hypothesis
00:27:33yes, more or less
00:27:34that to a large extent
00:27:35it can be
00:27:36a psychic phenomenon
00:27:37that there is
00:27:38an energy
00:27:39that is there
00:27:40stored
00:27:41that is there
00:27:42potentially
00:27:43and that in
00:27:44certain circumstances
00:27:45it can come out
00:27:46but to the point
00:27:47of moving
00:27:48heavy objects
00:27:49yes, in fact
00:27:50I was a witness
00:27:51that's why
00:27:52I want to take you
00:27:53I was a witness
00:27:54on an occasion
00:27:55of a fairly
00:27:56strong fact
00:27:57that happened to us
00:27:58some researchers
00:27:59that we are
00:28:00making
00:28:01psychophonic recordings
00:28:02in a house
00:28:03where they said
00:28:04that strange things
00:28:05had happened
00:28:06Andrés
00:28:07when they tell you
00:28:08that in a house
00:28:09strange things happen
00:28:10the researcher
00:28:11is going to try
00:28:12to put his finger
00:28:13in the key
00:28:14but in this case
00:28:15it was incredible
00:28:16because it has been
00:28:17the first time
00:28:18in my life
00:28:19that I witnessed
00:28:20a strange movement
00:28:21a poltergeist movement
00:28:22live
00:28:23and also
00:28:24I kept the recording
00:28:25because it was
00:28:26I imagine
00:28:27that you go
00:28:28with the recorder
00:28:29everywhere
00:28:30to the cinema
00:28:31and you take it
00:28:32with you
00:28:33all the time
00:28:34just in case
00:28:35and you go
00:28:36to a house
00:28:37presumably
00:28:38with poltergeist phenomena
00:28:39but what did you see?
00:28:40well
00:28:41we were sitting
00:28:42on a step
00:28:43I remember
00:28:44that we had
00:28:45a small table
00:28:46where we put
00:28:47all the devices
00:28:48and in a moment
00:28:49one of the girls
00:28:50that were with us
00:28:51we were finishing
00:28:52the investigation
00:28:53she said
00:28:54well
00:28:55I would like
00:28:56to thank everyone
00:28:57for
00:28:58and suddenly
00:28:59when the girl
00:29:00said
00:29:01I would like
00:29:02to thank everyone
00:29:03for a board
00:29:04of about
00:29:0550 kilos of weight
00:29:06it was an incredible
00:29:07wooden beam
00:29:08that was holding
00:29:09one of the
00:29:10one of the
00:29:11gigantic doors
00:29:12that this house
00:29:13had
00:29:14she started to tremble
00:29:15and drag herself
00:29:16through the wall
00:29:17scratching
00:29:18what is the wall
00:29:19and scratching
00:29:20what is the floor
00:29:21scratching everything
00:29:22until it was
00:29:23stamped
00:29:24with a
00:29:25brutal sound
00:29:26that resounded
00:29:27in the whole house
00:29:28but the trajectory
00:29:29was normal
00:29:30the movement
00:29:31was from the edge
00:29:32of gravity
00:29:33the trajectory
00:29:34was a horizontal
00:29:35displacement
00:29:36by the wall
00:29:37scratching the floor
00:29:38and scratching the wall
00:29:39proof that
00:29:40the next day
00:29:41when we came back
00:29:42it was night
00:29:43and we came back
00:29:44to see what
00:29:45had happened
00:29:46we did not wonder
00:29:47because as a result
00:29:48of this
00:29:49strange things
00:29:50started to happen
00:29:51but well
00:29:52since we
00:29:53could not
00:29:54be there
00:29:55and as it was
00:29:56the logical
00:29:57circumstance
00:29:58in your case
00:29:59that you were
00:30:00recording
00:30:01what we can
00:30:02imagine
00:30:03the noise
00:30:04that this
00:30:05board
00:30:06produced
00:30:07through the wall
00:30:08and then
00:30:09I do not know
00:30:10if they have
00:30:11the tape
00:30:12in control
00:30:13I do not know
00:30:14if they are in
00:30:15a situation
00:30:16of yes
00:30:17let's
00:30:18let's
00:30:19listen to it
00:30:20during
00:30:21when that
00:30:22happens
00:30:23what does
00:30:24it do
00:30:25does it
00:30:26make you
00:30:27run
00:30:28well
00:30:29we
00:30:30stayed
00:30:31completely
00:30:32silent
00:30:33and
00:30:34about
00:30:35five seconds
00:30:36passed
00:30:37that
00:30:38nobody
00:30:39knew
00:30:40what had
00:30:41happened
00:30:42all
00:30:43had happened
00:30:44in front of
00:30:45us
00:30:46a person
00:30:47a great
00:30:48researcher
00:30:49José Requena
00:30:50was
00:30:51behind
00:30:52and he
00:30:53was completely
00:30:54standing
00:30:55because
00:30:56something
00:30:57happened
00:30:58and the one
00:30:59who saw
00:31:00it
00:31:01was
00:31:02leaning
00:31:03against
00:31:04the wall
00:31:05not that
00:31:06he fell
00:31:07like that
00:31:08but he
00:31:09ran
00:31:10scratching
00:31:11the floor
00:31:12and
00:31:13scratching
00:31:14the wall
00:31:15the board
00:31:16was
00:31:17physically
00:31:18impossible
00:31:19if someone
00:31:20does not
00:31:21push it
00:31:22the board
00:31:23was like this
00:31:24and it
00:31:25moved
00:31:26completely
00:31:27and then
00:31:28when it
00:31:29was
00:31:30moved
00:31:31it
00:31:32moved
00:31:33like that
00:31:34and
00:31:35we
00:31:36stood
00:31:37there
00:31:38and
00:31:39we
00:31:40felt
00:31:41like
00:31:42we
00:31:43were
00:31:44like
00:31:45we
00:31:46had
00:31:47been
00:31:48there
00:31:49for
00:31:50a long
00:31:51time
00:31:52so
00:31:53we
00:31:54were
00:31:55very
00:31:56excited
00:31:57to
00:31:58Well, this is a house near a road in the middle of a country.
00:32:03And, well, many times the workers who were on the way
00:32:08tended to sleep, to take a nap in some pines that were there,
00:32:12or even inside the house itself, on a sofa.
00:32:15And the house is uninhabited.
00:32:17Well, that's where the thing starts to arise,
00:32:19because many of these people say that when they opened their eyes
00:32:23they found someone staring at them.
00:32:28And from the board you say that even more things happened.
00:32:31Well, Pedro Landa with his palm, an invisible hand, and Sonora.
00:32:36Was it in that same house or another?
00:32:38No, this was in an abandoned monastery.
00:32:41They said, the law says...
00:32:43What do you expect, that places go on excursions?
00:32:47But, well, it's all the beauty that it has.
00:32:50A beautiful man.
00:32:52I'm being ironic, but I'm envious,
00:32:54because it's been a long time since I've done those things.
00:32:56The truth is that it's a healthy life.
00:32:58In this place there's a legend.
00:33:00It's a healthy life.
00:33:01In a healthy life.
00:33:02Ah, it's useful.
00:33:03The healthy life, the love of life.
00:33:07Well, in this monastery there's a legend
00:33:10that says that the spirit or the ghost of an abbot
00:33:14was protecting the monastery because he had buried
00:33:17the sappers of the ancient monks who were adorned,
00:33:21he had buried them.
00:33:23And, in fact, in the place you have to be careful
00:33:25because many treasure hunters,
00:33:27these people who go with their metal detectors,
00:33:29they try to look there.
00:33:31Because they say there are buried treasures.
00:33:33And there we went at night, with an immense cold.
00:33:37I've never been so cold.
00:33:39It was incredible.
00:33:40In fact, as we walked, we broke the frozen ice drops
00:33:43on the plants.
00:33:44It sounded...
00:33:45Incredible.
00:33:46The fact is that when we entered the monastery,
00:33:50abandoned, we were under a large chimney
00:33:53where possibly all the monks ate and so on.
00:33:57And we set up a small research team.
00:34:00Some cameras, some recorders, infrared detectors and so on.
00:34:04And we started the research.
00:34:06After something incredible happened,
00:34:09which I will tell in another program, perhaps.
00:34:11Why?
00:34:12Well, I'll tell you.
00:34:13Tell it briefly, son.
00:34:15We were recording and my wife...
00:34:19We always carry candles for the moon.
00:34:21And my wife took off a glove
00:34:23and went to light one, two, three and four candles
00:34:26that we placed in a place so that it was visible.
00:34:29The fact is that at one point I saw that it began to move,
00:34:33from one side to the other.
00:34:34There were two or three more researchers who were noticing
00:34:37and it made noise and I was recording.
00:34:40Well, the fact is that I was looking for the glove that had been lost.
00:34:43And at one point we were all looking at a central point
00:34:46and the glove...
00:34:47And this I can give faith and testimony
00:34:50because I also have it recorded in audio.
00:34:52The glove appeared in the air and fell to the ground,
00:34:56a meter and a half high.
00:34:58We were witnesses, three or four people who were there
00:35:01and we saw this with our own eyes.
00:35:03I know you think, well, Pedro will be crazy or go crazy.
00:35:06No.
00:35:07I tell what I have seen and I limit myself to saying that.
00:35:09Despite that, my opinion on the subject of the poltergeists,
00:35:13of this type of contribution...
00:35:14What surprises me is that you think...
00:35:17In the unconscious...
00:35:20Maybe a little... I don't want to get too far from the ground
00:35:24because I'm afraid I'm going to fly.
00:35:26We are all supermen or superwomen, potentially,
00:35:30that our mind is able to move a board,
00:35:34that it is able to make a glove or a piano levitate,
00:35:37which in this case is the same, it is exactly the same.
00:35:40But what about the palm of the submachine gun when...
00:35:42Well, here in this same place, after the issue of the glove,
00:35:45things started to get a little tense and serious,
00:35:49with very cold laughs and such.
00:35:52Did you hear the laughs?
00:35:53Yes, yes, but the laughs were ours.
00:35:55A little like that.
00:35:56After this, the batteries of the batteries,
00:35:59the recorders and others began to fall.
00:36:01That happens often too.
00:36:02And, well, we change everything, we put it on,
00:36:06and at one point I was with my pipe, quietly, I was dressed,
00:36:09and I am a nicotine and on top of the chimneys
00:36:12I like to look at the shelf to see if there is something.
00:36:15And I take a flashlight, I raise my hand,
00:36:17and the moment I raise my hand to look with the other hand at the pipe,
00:36:20they hit me with a palm in the hand.
00:36:23Incredible.
00:36:25That's because of the tick.
00:36:26That's because of the tick.
00:36:27The advantages of being recording,
00:36:30of trying to record psychophonies at all times,
00:36:33will allow us to hear that palm.
00:36:36Have you ever recorded the palm?
00:36:37You will hear the sound of a ghostly palm,
00:36:41because there was no physical hand there.
00:36:44However, it was physical because it produced the sound.
00:36:48Let's hear it.
00:37:01And what do you say afterwards?
00:37:03Well, I'd rather not say it because it's a little taco, right?
00:37:08The fact is that I was amazed.
00:37:10And all your colleagues and your wife saw that your hand was moving?
00:37:14I was like this, and bam!
00:37:16In fact, everything went down.
00:37:18Then they looked at me and said, what happened?
00:37:20Damn, they hit me with a palm in the hand.
00:37:23And you didn't run away from there?
00:37:25We didn't.
00:37:26At least you have a point of defense.
00:37:29I think that the other way around is that when you are in the act,
00:37:32and when you are there,
00:37:34you have more desire to stay and see what is happening.
00:37:37For example, I thought, like Pedro,
00:37:39that possibly the human mind was responsible for producing all kinds of phenomena.
00:37:44Until a couple of experiences that I had,
00:37:47I don't know, now I prefer not to think.
00:37:50As Pedro says, you have your feet on the ground,
00:37:52but from what I lived, especially what happened to me in the house of La Vuelta de San Vicente,
00:37:56the summer residence of Félix García Lorca,
00:37:58it was the first time I saw a poltergeist phenomenon,
00:38:00and that impressed me.
00:38:02It was by chance.
00:38:03One day I went to the park with the dog,
00:38:05I met a jury guard,
00:38:07and he told me that in the house I heard noise.
00:38:09I heard noise in the upper floor,
00:38:10as if someone was dragging furniture and someone was running up.
00:38:13And sometimes someone was running to the piano,
00:38:15if it was a couple of hits on the piano,
00:38:17and the guitar fell down.
00:38:18It was Paquita.
00:38:19And it wasn't Paquita, Paquita was in the conservatory.
00:38:21Paquita was teaching Pedro,
00:38:23which I will tell you later,
00:38:24a psychophony that I got the other day.
00:38:26Anyway, I stayed with this man to spend a night
00:38:30in the museum house.
00:38:32I went into the house,
00:38:34and let's say I was skeptical,
00:38:36because I had never seen a poltergeist phenomenon,
00:38:38and a man I knew,
00:38:39after talking to him for 15 minutes,
00:38:41I don't know if this guy was like the Manacas de Machín,
00:38:44or what is happening here.
00:38:46Anyway, I also went with another colleague,
00:38:48the three of us were there,
00:38:49we started walking around the house,
00:38:51and I had read in the parapsychology books
00:38:53that there were electromagnetic alterations
00:38:55where poltergeist phenomenons occur,
00:38:57and I happened to have a compass,
00:38:58a small compass.
00:39:00I started walking around the house,
00:39:02from one side to the other,
00:39:03and suddenly I had the compass in my hand,
00:39:05and I saw that he went crazy,
00:39:06that he started going around,
00:39:08with the guard next to him,
00:39:09with another colleague,
00:39:10and right in front of Federico's painting.
00:39:13I looked at the painting,
00:39:15and I said, well,
00:39:16he must be a little crazy,
00:39:17I'm nervous too,
00:39:18and we kept going around,
00:39:19and the same thing happened,
00:39:20right next to the piano,
00:39:21and on top of a table
00:39:22that was in the dining room.
00:39:24In those places,
00:39:25the compass pointed to the north,
00:39:26and it scared him again.
00:39:27No, no, no,
00:39:28it was spinning,
00:39:29it was spinning,
00:39:30it was going around,
00:39:31it wasn't pointing to the north,
00:39:32but it was going around,
00:39:33both in front of Federico's painting,
00:39:35and next to the piano,
00:39:37and on top of the table
00:39:38in the dining room of the house.
00:39:40That left me a little confused,
00:39:42I kept going around the house,
00:39:45and suddenly I heard a clack,
00:39:48and the priest said to me,
00:39:50the kitchen alarm,
00:39:53let's go down to the kitchen,
00:39:55and indeed,
00:39:56the window had opened,
00:39:58but there was one thing
00:39:59that shocked me a lot,
00:40:00and that is that the two doors,
00:40:01the one on the left
00:40:02was with the latches out,
00:40:04the one on the right
00:40:05had opened,
00:40:06but the lock was still on,
00:40:08as if someone had opened it
00:40:10and closed it again.
00:40:11I even took a photo
00:40:12that was published of that.
00:40:24Sometimes it is the practice
00:40:26of some kind of spiritism,
00:40:28often the Ouija,
00:40:30which seems to open a door
00:40:32to that unknown dimension
00:40:34from which that someone,
00:40:36or that something
00:40:37that we call poltergeist,
00:40:39penetrates this side of reality.
00:40:54That is what happened
00:40:55in a chalet
00:40:56on the outskirts of Albalate de Zorita,
00:40:58in the province of Guadalajara.
00:41:01The phenomena
00:41:02that still continue to occur
00:41:04are not excessively violent,
00:41:06and the Palles Sotomayor family
00:41:08lives with them
00:41:09without giving them
00:41:10too much importance,
00:41:12although,
00:41:13as we will see in the report,
00:41:15among those phenomena
00:41:17there is the presence
00:41:19of a pale specter of a woman.
00:41:21We were talking to Pilar Palles,
00:41:23one of the daughters.
00:41:25She and her sister Paz
00:41:27seem to be the ones
00:41:28who suffer the effects
00:41:30of the alleged poltergeist more directly.
00:41:34She is a woman
00:41:36who lives in a chalet
00:41:38in the province of Guadalajara.
00:41:41She is a woman
00:41:42who lives in a chalet
00:41:44in the province of Guadalajara.
00:41:47She is a woman
00:41:48who lives in a chalet
00:41:50in the province of Guadalajara.
00:41:53Yet,
00:41:54they try to get used to the phenomena
00:41:56at times overwhelming
00:41:58and make their life
00:41:59as if nothing were happening.
00:42:02It all began
00:42:03after they performed
00:42:04some spiritism sessions
00:42:06in the main hall of the house.
00:42:14I have a friend
00:42:15whom I have seen
00:42:17doing spiritism
00:42:18It's the demon, the demon inside that reacts like the demon.
00:42:22It tried to kill my brother and his friends.
00:42:25At dawn, too.
00:42:27He was sleeping and he heard the saw sharpening
00:42:32and he heard his sound, as if it were on.
00:42:37My sister came down, but I didn't get to touch her or anything.
00:42:41She must have stayed at the door and when she saw that it was off, well...
00:42:46It was a season when we came very little
00:42:48and you could see changes in his life,
00:42:51from consumption of light to the season we usually come.
00:42:56The bill was more expensive than when we came and we were here.
00:43:00My sister was reading a magazine,
00:43:02she was looking at a magazine and I was already sleeping.
00:43:05And a woman came out of the wardrobe,
00:43:09tall, blonde, with long hair and she was wearing white.
00:43:16It is in that room where, according to Pilar,
00:43:19was the original focus of the phenomena
00:43:22that would then spread to the rest of the house.
00:43:25Object movements, violent noises, shadows.
00:43:31Next to the table that served for those practices of Ouija,
00:43:34she told us what she and her family had been witnessing for several months.
00:43:39Here they do the Ouija, they have always done the Ouija.
00:43:42You can hear the doors moving upstairs,
00:43:45the doors and the lights,
00:43:48we have seen them on and off.
00:43:52You could hear chains dragging and a motorcycle.
00:43:56And that tape disappeared, you don't know where it is.
00:44:00Not far from the house are the remains of a village
00:44:03that was abandoned years ago,
00:44:05without the reasons being clear.
00:44:08The island, in a progressive deterioration,
00:44:11has been a stage for all kinds of practices,
00:44:14many of them also of spiritism.
00:44:17Now few dare to visit it.
00:44:20They assure that strange lights pass through it
00:44:23and that you feel the presence of something ominous.
00:44:26There are even witnesses who claim to have seen
00:44:29how some of the objects scattered there
00:44:32disappeared.
00:44:35Probably exaggerations,
00:44:38but there are those who relate these phenomena
00:44:41to those of the house of the Pallés Sotomayor.
00:44:44In any case, whether or not they originate
00:44:47in the ruinous walls of the abandoned chalet,
00:44:50in Villa Seisipico the events have not been limited
00:44:53to noises, footsteps or objects levitating.
00:44:56In the upper floor, where the sisters
00:44:59of the Pallés Sotomayor live,
00:45:02a ghostly figure of a woman
00:45:05came out of the closet,
00:45:08leaping over the bed of one of them.
00:45:14In this room, what my sister saw and heard
00:45:17was that she was lying here reading a magazine
00:45:20and what she saw was how the doors of the closet opened,
00:45:23how a woman came out of the closet doors
00:45:26and it was a woman who was lying there
00:45:29and she was tall, blonde, with long hair,
00:45:32she was wearing white,
00:45:35and she was approaching the bed
00:45:38and she was doing this with a kind of veil,
00:45:41and my mother reacted like this, covering herself.
00:45:49But it is not only the members of the family
00:45:52who are witnesses to these disturbing events.
00:45:55Occasional visitors who have stopped by the house
00:45:58have also seen ghostly silhouettes, lights.
00:46:01Esther López, a young neighbor
00:46:04who has witnessed some of the phenomena,
00:46:07is not willing to spend the night there again.
00:46:13Whispers, whispers, voices,
00:46:16there is everything in the story
00:46:19of those who visit the house.
00:46:22Despite everything, the family continues to occupy it,
00:46:25dreaming of continuing with their daily life,
00:46:28hoping that sooner or later
00:46:31that uncomfortable and invisible visitor
00:46:34will end up leaving.
00:46:38The story continues.
00:46:52Sometimes extraordinary events
00:46:55occur in isolation,
00:46:58on a single occasion,
00:47:01and its protagonist keeps it a secret,
00:47:04because he considers that it is something intimate
00:47:07that no one else cares about.
00:47:10This case is as concrete and brief in its exposition
00:47:13as it is dramatic and disconcerting.
00:47:16It can be included among Poltergeist phenomena
00:47:19because it is a contribution,
00:47:22of an object that incomprehensibly
00:47:25ceases to be where it should be
00:47:28to materialize elsewhere.
00:47:31The story continues.
00:47:40It should be in this niche of Arnel's cemetery,
00:47:43inside the coffin that contains
00:47:46the body of Mrs. Julia Hernández,
00:47:49who died on December 19, 1996,
00:47:52but it is not here.
00:47:55It is in the house of her daughter,
00:47:58Mrs. Julia Hernández.
00:48:01Well, my mother came in, she had a heart attack,
00:48:04they put her in the ICU,
00:48:07and we were going in to visit her.
00:48:10In fact, this rosary was given to me by a friend,
00:48:13a friend named Julia,
00:48:16very special to me.
00:48:19She came from Lourdes and told me
00:48:22that this was going to help my mother a lot.
00:48:25They didn't let me come in to put it on her,
00:48:28a nurse put it on her,
00:48:31then when I came in I showed my mother the rosary,
00:48:34that she touched it, put it in her hand,
00:48:37spoke to her, told her that this rosary was going to help her a lot.
00:48:40I spoke a lot to her,
00:48:43we told her things and at first she didn't tell us anything,
00:48:46but then she gave us a lot of clues,
00:48:49because we talked to her,
00:48:52and she also made gestures as if she were drinking coffee.
00:48:55She put herself in front of the doctors,
00:48:58and the doctors didn't give her any sign,
00:49:01that is, she rejected them, a little less than she rejected them.
00:49:04I told the doctor that I wanted to take my mother out of the ICU,
00:49:07they told me no, that my mother couldn't hear,
00:49:10that science hadn't advanced yet for my mother to hear us,
00:49:13and, well, to hear us and tell us that my mother
00:49:16hadn't had enough oxygen in her brain
00:49:19and that she couldn't hear us.
00:49:22What was our surprise?
00:49:25A doctor appeared and told us that he believed,
00:49:28but he didn't tell us for sure that he did.
00:49:31And I dare to tell you,
00:49:34because he gave us an opportunity,
00:49:37he took out a machine and saw that really,
00:49:40when we talked to her, she reacted with us,
00:49:43which she didn't do with them.
00:49:46We asked them to take her out of the room
00:49:49because they told us there was no remedy,
00:49:52and I never lost hope, but, well.
00:49:55They took her out, she was in the room for a month,
00:49:58and we were talking to her all day.
00:50:01We talked about everything, like in a normal life,
00:50:04we told her everything we did, what we did with her,
00:50:07we washed her, many times we gave her water,
00:50:10which the doctors told us not to,
00:50:13and we told her that if she was listening to us,
00:50:16bite her a little, and maybe she would bite me.
00:50:19And I told her, mom, don't hurt me.
00:50:22She picked me up and raised her mouth.
00:50:25And many times she laughed at me,
00:50:28she made gestures as if she was laughing.
00:50:31And in fact the nurses were crazy about us,
00:50:34because they also listened and said,
00:50:37we are happy to be with you,
00:50:40it was happening, she was in the room for a month,
00:50:43and then a day came,
00:50:46that I was not going to go that day,
00:50:49but I still went up, and just when my sisters came,
00:50:52I went down to have a coffee,
00:50:55and they came down to call me,
00:50:58and just when I went up, I was breathing.
00:51:01I asked my sister how it had been,
00:51:04because I had left her well,
00:51:07and my sister started to cry,
00:51:10and she told me, she just started to cry,
00:51:13and I started to name her the names,
00:51:16because here is Lali and all the brothers,
00:51:19and she started to open her eyes,
00:51:22and she started to look for all the children,
00:51:25which in three months she had not moved her head,
00:51:28she started to look for the children,
00:51:31and she started to cry, to cry like a strong child,
00:51:34and she could not stand one more day,
00:51:37that she was the saint of her grandson.
00:51:40I asked them to let me bring her home,
00:51:43they did not let me,
00:51:46I asked them to dress her in a white tunic,
00:51:49and on the day of the burial,
00:51:52just when we were in the cemetery,
00:51:55I asked my brother that he had promised me,
00:51:58that he would see my mother the last day,
00:52:01and we went to open it,
00:52:04and there was a nephew there,
00:52:07we were the children around the box,
00:52:10I went to catch myself,
00:52:13and I saw that my nephew told me,
00:52:16aunt, I'm going to throw this to my grandmother,
00:52:19and I told him, and I, this,
00:52:22they did not see what,
00:52:25and he told me later, my nephew,
00:52:28I'm going to throw this to my grandmother.
00:52:43That rosary was put in the box,
00:52:46that rosary was closed, and that rosary appeared.
00:52:49How did it appear?
00:52:52On the table in the room,
00:52:55under the table,
00:52:58it was between the clothes and the cards of the girls.
00:53:03Well, this is for me,
00:53:06that my mother gives me a clue that
00:53:09I have to have this rosary,
00:53:12because in her day she helped her a lot,
00:53:15and she gives it back to me,
00:53:18so that she can see that she is very well,
00:53:21and that now she will protect me.
00:53:25For some, the phenomena of Poltergeist
00:53:28are nothing more than a sample
00:53:31of the extraordinary capacities of our mind.
00:53:34For most, their origin is not in this world of the living,
00:53:37but in the other, in that of the dead.
00:53:40If so,
00:53:43each of us will be able to verify it at the time.
00:53:55Andrés' question
00:54:15Well, we had in the air
00:54:18Andrés' question.
00:54:21Yes, it is true.
00:54:24If all this happens,
00:54:27and many times in official institutions,
00:54:30people who give testimony,
00:54:33they are jury guards,
00:54:36people who are used to certain things,
00:54:39how is it possible,
00:54:42because I believe you as friends,
00:54:45but how is it possible that someone
00:54:48officially does not investigate,
00:54:51there is a very curious story,
00:54:54where there was a lady who caused five fires in two houses,
00:54:57where she was working,
00:55:00and although she was sentenced to two and a half years in prison,
00:55:03the judge did not fulfill the sentence,
00:55:06because the same sentence collected
00:55:09that the fires were caused in a paranormal way,
00:55:12and that although she unconsciously caused those fires,
00:55:15she was never in the mood to hurt.
00:55:19Indeed.
00:55:30Imagine, Andrés, that you are managing
00:55:33an institution, a center,
00:55:36a delegation of the Ministry of Industry,
00:55:39and strange phenomena begin to happen.
00:55:42What do you do?
00:55:45Of course, you are admitting
00:55:48that this is probably the best way to communicate,
00:55:51and that that institution, that official center,
00:55:54becomes, not in a kind of joke,
00:55:57but in something that is going to be speculated on,
00:56:00in which jokes are going to be made,
00:56:03because this type of phenomenon, as they are so disturbing,
00:56:06immediately provokes the joke and the laughter,
00:56:09which is a defense mechanism that we humans have.
00:56:12I would think about it.
00:56:15I would call a team to investigate, but...
00:56:18But it would be worth it, right?
00:56:21Until all the research is done,
00:56:24for example, I would not divulge it.
00:56:27I do not know.
00:56:30The attitude is, I think it is understandable
00:56:33that we are harmed, right?
00:56:36But in fact they are open,
00:56:39but they do leave...
00:56:42What would be the objectives of those jokers,
00:56:45or toys, as it is?
00:56:48The fact that a drawer comes out flying around,
00:56:51that an apple is pierced...
00:56:54Assuming that it is really about that,
00:56:57about jokers,
00:57:00I do not know the purpose, but they have too much bad milk.
00:57:03I do not know why,
00:57:06but I was researching last year,
00:57:09let's say I focused on the poltergeist phenomenon
00:57:12because of the sociological aspect that it can have.
00:57:15We are getting into the house of people,
00:57:18which is perhaps the most intimate aspect of one.
00:57:21And if aggression occurs there, it can be terrifying.
00:57:24And I remember two specific cases,
00:57:27not the grandfather Cebolleta, rather the grandson Cebolleta,
00:57:30but perhaps the best way to illustrate them are the cases.
00:57:33There was a family,
00:57:36they live with their daughter Ana López,
00:57:39she was 22 years old at that time,
00:57:42and the girl got up in the morning on a staircase
00:57:45that had about 30 cm high,
00:57:48very high, totally rigid on those stairs,
00:57:51and with her body full of blisters.
00:57:54I repeat, if it is the mind, we have a very bad enemy inside,
00:57:57because this type of aggression I think is quite hard.
00:58:00I was telling you that at the foot of the bed
00:58:03I saw a series of entities, of people,
00:58:06dressed in white, of different heights,
00:58:09ranging from 75 cm to 1.70 m,
00:58:12and they were approaching her, at the foot of the bed,
00:58:15we are talking about the alcove,
00:58:18and this girl, when she opened her eyes, saw it.
00:58:21But was she alone or were there other people?
00:58:24That's what I'm getting at, Fernando.
00:58:27There is a limit in which they cannot continue to live in that house,
00:58:30because they are really having a bad time.
00:58:33That house ends up becoming a meeting point for this girl and her friends,
00:58:36so that there is only a sofa, a armchair,
00:58:39in short, the typical thing to have a party.
00:58:42On one occasion, one of the friends was going with his girlfriend,
00:58:45this girl was also going with her boyfriend,
00:58:48at a certain moment, the friends knew absolutely nothing
00:58:51about what had happened in that house.
00:58:54It was a three-story building,
00:58:57the living room was on the second floor,
00:59:00and they began to perceive how, from the staircase that leads to that living room,
00:59:03which is right at the entrance to the street,
00:59:06they began to hear a sound, a sound like a body,
00:59:09they thought it could be robust,
00:59:12by the way it dragged against the wall, how it was rubbing.
00:59:15At that moment, the boy, who had no idea what had happened there,
00:59:18began to call his friend, Felix.
00:59:21Felix was on the top floor.
00:59:24Well, he thought it was a joke.
00:59:27Notice what happens when suddenly those steps cease,
00:59:30that is to say that whatever has arrived has reached the floor where they are,
00:59:33and right at the only exit door of that room
00:59:36appears a robust shadow of 1.80 meters,
00:59:39and what they identify in his hand with the light that enters from the street at 12.30 at night
00:59:42is a knife 30 centimeters long.
00:59:45I just want to tell you to get into the situation
00:59:48to see how that boy...
00:59:51Well, how did that happen?
00:59:54Well, that boy with his girlfriend began to scream,
00:59:57that shadow continued towards the upper room where he was.
01:00:00The knife was material?
01:00:03Yes, yes, yes, they perfectly identified the shine of the blade.
01:00:06Well, they ran down and just when they got down,
01:00:09the friends who were on the top floor came behind,
01:00:12what's going on, what's going on, have you seen? No, we haven't seen anything.
01:00:15He is at the door of the house,
01:00:18at that moment he says that he notices something very strong behind him,
01:00:21he pushes him in such a way that he is going to stop in the middle of the street.
01:00:24Imagine the surprise of the...
01:00:27Until the shot comes out alone.
01:00:30Almost as if it had come out avoiding.
01:00:33This type of aggression is frequent,
01:00:36as the one you received, as the one you comment,
01:00:39and many times there was a house, the house of Gavia, I don't know if you know it.
01:00:42It is the case of a painter,
01:00:45he had multiple fractures in that house,
01:00:48someone invisible, there was no one,
01:00:51the friends were downstairs,
01:00:54he pushed him, he fell down the stairs,
01:00:57it was a bit violent too.
01:01:00They stay in the house, they are not the characters that inhabit it,
01:01:03but the house itself that causes these phenomena.
01:01:06You don't change houses and in that new house nothing happens to you.
01:01:09Or yes.
01:01:12Leave me some way out.
01:01:15I don't think it is the product of the mind,
01:01:18I think that the product of the mind
01:01:21has a lot to do with it,
01:01:24practically a 90%,
01:01:27but a 10% for me is caused by that strange,
01:01:30that unknown, that energy that Fernando alluded to.
01:01:33A little nuance that I had forgotten in this case,
01:01:36in so many cases of Poltergeist there was an antecedent,
01:01:39in that case they had carried out spiritist practices of Ouija,
01:01:42the so-called game with which Fernando is never in agreement with me.
01:01:45We are with Ouija.
01:01:48Sometimes it is dangerous.
01:01:51I wanted to comment that from my experience,
01:01:54if you look at the books,
01:01:57the books of parapsychology,
01:02:00you see that in 80% of the cases the phenomenon obeys the spirit of the word,
01:02:03and they don't want to do anything,
01:02:06they don't show negative or aggressive reactions.
01:02:09But there is a small percentage where it does.
01:02:12When people call me, when I come into contact with a case,
01:02:15I always say that you don't have to be afraid,
01:02:18that almost nothing ever happens.
01:02:21And how does the family get along with Poltergeist?
01:02:24There is a kind of consensus at the end,
01:02:27you open the drawer, but I sleep, let me sleep all night.
01:02:30Can you establish that kind of dialogue?
01:02:33I have investigated cases where people were...
01:02:36In the case of the girl you told me about, it is scary,
01:02:39but there are cases in which you can...
01:02:42Look, I was studying a case where a lady,
01:02:45her son, according to her testimony,
01:02:48and her father, a very balanced person,
01:02:51had lowered him several times from the ceiling of the room.
01:02:54Personally, when I arrived,
01:02:57they called me on the phone,
01:03:00and he was already downstairs,
01:03:03and the boy was upstairs, and they had to lower him.
01:03:06I always put this in the context of the trial,
01:03:09I mean, I haven't seen it,
01:03:12but they have told me and I tell you.
01:03:15But what I did see was that when they called me,
01:03:18I was going up the stairs,
01:03:21and I heard knocks and noises everywhere.
01:03:24In the kitchen, all the doors were open,
01:03:27the dishes on the floor, and above all,
01:03:30it caught my attention that the woman was telling me
01:03:33that the dishwasher's bowl was squeezing against the floor
01:03:36and it came out, and everything was precisely there.
01:03:39So, this woman was crazy.
01:03:42Generally, according to what I have seen,
01:03:45people who have this kind of thing,
01:03:48what interests them is a solution,
01:03:52and they usually call you for that.
01:03:55They call you because they don't know what to do.
01:03:58Many times, before going to the investigator,
01:04:01they have gone to an exorcist,
01:04:04they have gone to the priest to bless the house
01:04:07and make prayers with holy water and all that.
01:04:10And well, they go to the city of these crazy guys
01:04:13who investigate these issues.
01:04:16Lorenzo and I were in one in Cordoba,
01:04:20we were there on some occasions.
01:04:23It seems that the phenomena have not disappeared,
01:04:26but they have reappeared.
01:04:29But how many times did a fire start
01:04:32because of spontaneous combustion of that house?
01:04:35Like five times. The firemen already knew each other.
01:04:38Yes, yes, but also, even the empty house was on fire
01:04:41to such an extent that on a floor of approximately 75 square meters,
01:04:44there were more than 125 kilos of paint left,
01:04:47it was tremendous.
01:04:50It seems ridiculous to me.
01:04:53I was studying a case of an office where the curtains burned by themselves
01:04:56and it turned out that they had a kind of gas underneath,
01:04:59an escape of gas, I think it's methane,
01:05:02and then when certain sparks were produced in a plug,
01:05:05the curtains burned. And this is a scientific application.
01:05:08If it is an isolated phenomenon, perhaps in this case
01:05:11that was the most striking.
01:05:14Another phenomenon that occurred was that all the little paintings
01:05:17and it was a house, in addition, of a family
01:05:20that liked to put marks and anything,
01:05:23a calendar sheet, whatever it was, that was beautiful,
01:05:26they marked it on the wall.
01:05:29They all appeared on several occasions vertically, these horizontal ones.
01:05:32Like this? Like this.
01:05:35Aggressions, but come on,
01:05:38to go out, paintings violently thrown
01:05:41against people and pass them.
01:05:44I remember the case many years ago of a hairdresser in Madrid,
01:05:47in the neighborhood of Aluche,
01:05:50I was, well, investigating,
01:05:53investigate what these gentlemen do.
01:05:56What Joaquín and I did was to be curious,
01:05:59and we spent a couple of nights there,
01:06:02and well, from the flowers that were spinning alone inside the flower bed
01:06:05to a pair of scissors thrown out
01:06:08on the wall a few centimeters from one of the clients.
01:06:11That is, deaths that I know of, there are none
01:06:14that have been produced by Poltergeist phenomena,
01:06:17but such unpleasant scares are not so exceptional.
01:06:20Do you think it is intended to say that they do not kill,
01:06:23but if they want to bother a lot or throw out the invaders
01:06:26of their territory?
01:06:29The case that impressed me the most, and I did not live it,
01:06:32were the witnesses, the case of deputation in Granada,
01:06:35where six people got into the building,
01:06:38two in the lower part, two in the basement,
01:06:41two on the first floor, two on the second floor.
01:06:44And it is curious, because only the two who were on the first floor had experience,
01:06:47those two gentlemen.
01:06:50One of them was a doctor, quite well known,
01:06:53I want to continue in anonymity,
01:06:56but what he told me left me speechless.
01:06:59It turns out that two people were going and one was carrying a Geiger counter,
01:07:02according to this man,
01:07:05the one who was in front with the Geiger,
01:07:08he shouts, he releases it and has in his hand
01:07:11the bite of a small child.
01:07:14And he introduces a man who is fed up with bites,
01:07:17who is fed up with surgeries,
01:07:20and then he says that he sees a mist,
01:07:23or later a mist, or even small lights that are moving
01:07:26inside the courtyard.
01:07:29And then he starts to inquire about the building,
01:07:32and there are even things related to deputation.
01:07:35For example, the man who sold the building to World War,
01:07:38that man committed suicide, that has never been published,
01:07:41that kind of very strange details.
01:07:44But the curious thing is that in the Middle Ages,
01:07:47when it was a convent, it turns out that people bought the building
01:07:50to make the great warehouse.
01:07:53When they threw the tabiques, they took fetuses in pairs.
01:07:56I mean, look at the relationship there is.
01:07:59It was not the mouth of a dog, of a cat,
01:08:02of a small child.
01:08:05There is no oral communication.
01:08:08Well, psychophony, yes, you told me.
01:08:11But they are related to what happens.
01:08:14For example, there you would hear the voice of that child.
01:08:17Sometimes they have been heard in places where things have happened.
01:08:20Some echoes, very strange.
01:08:23It was in the palm tree.
01:08:26I think you commented.
01:08:29We just needed the light to go out.
01:08:32No, that was in the board, and it went out.
01:08:35We had flashlights and immediately...
01:08:38As if something in those places...
01:08:41It has happened to us when we have filmed out there,
01:08:44in places that traditionally had a reputation.
01:08:47Not sinister, but had been centers of worship, of sacrifice.
01:08:50Pre-Columbians, it was very common
01:08:53within the Great Pyramid,
01:08:56as if you sucked the energy of the batteries
01:08:59and they last practically nothing.
01:09:02In the castle of Kukulkan, in Chichen Itza,
01:09:05this happened recently,
01:09:08and the watchmen could not communicate with the walkitalkis
01:09:11at a distance of 100 meters, in one point.
01:09:14We are talking about phenomena in which everything is mixed.
01:09:17The fundamental piece of analysis,
01:09:20of study, is the testimony of the people
01:09:23who play it.
01:09:26The problem is that they are not phenomena that can be taken to the laboratory.
01:09:29They are spontaneous, uncontrollable phenomena.
01:09:32Unless the researcher is there
01:09:35and has a video camera ready,
01:09:38and has a series of elements that can target the phenomenon,
01:09:41which is not frequent,
01:09:44they remain there, in doubt.
01:09:47It is always preferable to doubt to certainty,
01:09:50in this case, right, Andrés?
01:09:53Well, unless the researcher is there
01:09:56and sees that there is not a child biting your hand,
01:09:59because for a long time you have been ...
01:10:02I understand Pedro, and I think it is better to lean
01:10:05for the paranormal hypothesis than for the other,
01:10:08which would be to be a little less than inert
01:10:11in a world that we do not see, of creatures, of entities
01:10:14that get into ours and that not only make us jokes,
01:10:17but sometimes very bitter jokes.
01:10:20Well, let's leave the subject here,
01:10:23which is, as you have seen, very interesting.
01:10:26We will probably return to it in one way or another,
01:10:29and just wish you that nothing happens to you at home tonight
01:10:32and that everything remains calm.
01:10:35Until next time.
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